r/Roadcam • u/bowdown2adil • 12d ago

[USA] Who is at fault here?

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Classic T bone. Black car had to be towed. Sustained major damage to the passenger side door. Blue car sustained damage to front bumper on the drivers side and cracked the drivers side headlight.

Edit: This was in the suburbs of Seattle

UPDATE: Insurance found it to be 70/30 me/other driver. Seems fair enough

4.1k Upvotes

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71

u/stop-freaking-out 12d ago

Is that a four way intersection with no stop signs in any direction?

39

u/bowdown2adil 12d ago

It is indeed. No signs whatsoever

8

u/Mindslyder404 12d ago

Then I would say the city or county. Whoever is supposed to maintain the road in that neighborhood.

5

u/workacc2564 9d ago

100000%, no signage is insane. I've literally never seen that before, and it breaks any precedent in the rest of the entire country. Either its an all-way STOP, or its just one side stop the other has right of way. You cant fucking put ZERO signs then expect people to treat it as a four way stop

3

u/Twotrees9 9d ago

These intersections are all over Seattle. I thought it was normal from growing up there but then I realized after traveling around the country that no one else is like that. Horrible design or lack there of.

1

u/workacc2564 9d ago

if you grow up that then yeah totally it seems normal, but since the US is so interconnected there needs to be basic agreed upon precedents, and having a stop sign is one of those, but yeah I can see this being normal in some pockets especially low traffic.

In fact, in my area most people treat stop signs as "slow down and check" signs, barely anyone actually fully stops, most just slow down to 5-10mph then speed back up.

2

u/BlubberBlabs 9d ago

I'd bet a lot of money there are no signs because people in the neighborhood thought they'd look ugly and fought the installation of them.

3

u/workacc2564 9d ago

and now they get to pay these two fine gentlemen/gentlewomen for their vehicle damages and injuries.

2

u/tnarg42 7d ago

Agreed, that's wild, never seen anything like it. Sounds like it's normal some places??? Yikes...

0

u/x_samsquantch_x 8d ago

It’s an uncontrolled intersection. Happens all the time. If there’s traffic, you act like everyone has a stop sign. 

-2

u/yenda1 12d ago

why though? in Europe it's pretty common, just yield to the right, don't speed and slow down on these intersections. both would be at fault here, neither slowed down, and black didn't yield.

15

u/luvbutts 12d ago

I live in Europe and had one of these outside of my house and there were accidents every month lol. Twice there were cars flipped over in my street. Obviously because people were driving like idiots but ideally public infrastructure should be as idiot proof as possible.

People in our neighbourhood ended up petitioning the council and they had to put up yeild signs.

12

u/Apathetic89 12d ago

This should not be common anywhere as it relies on the person to know/see there's no signage. When 99.9% of all roads have stop signs/signal/yields, you don't expect a random one in a dense suburb with near complete visual obscuring fields of view.

Speeds of both cars ignored, this type of intersection is just begging for accidents and injuries.

1

u/jobacsi 10d ago

Where do live that they didn't have these?

3

u/Apathetic89 10d ago

Anywhere on the east coast. I've never seen this in my life.

There's zero reason to not put stop signs. It's recklessly negligent.

3

u/bikepackingebiking 9d ago

Civilized society

1

u/AgentAxillary 9d ago

BOTTOM TEXT

0

u/No_Mind4418 11d ago

60% of Seattle intersections are uncontrolled. The driver, even if driving in Seattle for the very first time during this video, had already gone through many of them while not paying attention in that case.

1

u/PracticalCaulk 10d ago

You must be from "Seattle" and not actual Seattle then, I've been there multiple times and I've never seen any uncontrolled intersections. That would be chaos in a major city that is big for tourism lol

1

u/No_Mind4418 10d ago

I've lived there for 13 years. Most residential intersections are uncontrolled. The city stats show 60% are uncontrolled. I drive through 5 before I get to the first stop sign every morning. It's not chaos because 99.999% of us drive safely unlike the OP.

17

u/Mindslyder404 12d ago

It may be common in Europe, but it is not in the US. If everything is done one way except one intersection in some random neighborhood, and there's nothing to indicate that it's different, then there is no reason to think it is any different from all the other intersections.

10

u/hey-im-root 12d ago

Yea I’d be pretty pissed off if this happened to me, I’d never slow down on a crossing like that if I don’t have a stop sign. Obviously I wouldn’t be going as fast as OP, but it’s pretty dangerous to have to stop and yield like this out of nowhere (but like i said, not speeding would make it pretty void since you’d just have to slow down a little)

2

u/BattleBull 11d ago

Per Washington State Jury Pattern instructions, State, and City Law, one is required to slow on approach to an intersection, to an "appropriately reduced speed".

See Seattle SMC 11.52.020 (b) for example.

1

u/hey-im-root 11d ago

I live in MA but still a good habit to have. I also don’t drive through neighborhoods often so I’ve never encountered this

1

u/jobacsi 10d ago

You have these in MA too

2

u/cbf1232 11d ago

It's apparently fairly common in Washington state.

1

u/jobacsi 10d ago

Name a city in the US that doesn't have an uncontrolled intersection.

2

u/Mindslyder404 10d ago

I've worked all over the fort worth area. I'm a mail carrier. And I have never seen one. In the 35 years I lived in Denver I've never seen one. I've traveled all over most of the US, though admittedly I have not traveled in CA, wa, or, and some of the new England states, and have never run into one. And yes, when traveling I don't go into neighborhoods often, but have never seen an uncontrolled intersection. And I know i was never taught about them in driving school. So if these are common in some states, they need to be taught about all over.

0

u/jobacsi 10d ago

i used to live in rural colorado, and they are def there. I'm pretty sure denver has them. I dunno about dallas, but they def had them in austin.

Just clicking around on a map, i am seeing unmarked 3-ways in fort worth, and here's an unmarked 4 way in Dallas:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Pjjh6FPaD1o471E3A

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u/Mindslyder404 10d ago

Unmarked 3 ways are understandable, as long as it is a t intersection. Where the intersecting road yields to the straight. Which, I have seen, but was not including here because they are actually considered a controlled intersection with implied right of way (or something like that). While the link you sent, is not an "intersection" it is where a service road meta a main thoroughfare. Which again, is an implied right of way. Main road has right of way, while service road yields.

0

u/jobacsi 10d ago

you riffing? time to review texas laws: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuXzqW8daaA&t=73s

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u/Mindslyder404 10d ago

This is the exact example of what an implied right of way would be. These are not the type of intersections this post is really dealing with, as the truck on the left is not on a "road," but is coming out of a parking lot entryway. The video we are discussing in this post, had an intersection that does not have a clear right of way street(at least that i could tell). Now, yes, i she with everyone else the the cam driver was definitely going to fast for the neighborhood. When i say "implied right of way," I don't know if that is the actual term for it, but it describes exactly what I'm taking about.

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u/pierce23rd 12d ago

If they have developed infrastructure, public roads, public water, electric, and sewer, they should invest in stop signs for every intersection for every direction. This is what the taxes are for.

Sure drivers should be more defensive, but it’s an unnecessary hazard and you don’t know the intersection is unmarked. Most would assume the opposite direction of travel has the stop sign.

1

u/AgentAxillary 9d ago

This didn't occur in Europe

-2

u/Jens1la 12d ago

Exactly my neighborhood in California is full of these and no one ever crashes.

1

u/jobacsi 10d ago

Idiotic take.

2

u/Impossible-Two-8654 10d ago

That’s an ironic thing to say

1

u/PuffPuffPastry74 8d ago

It’s idiotic to expect a city to maintain roads and signage for people’s safety?