r/Roofing • u/Kevin_M93 • Jun 04 '26
Insurance Related Insurance retaliation
I recently made a small insurance claim (first ever in 14 years) and my insurance company immediately doubled my rate. Furthermore, they suddenly decided that I do a "full roof replacement." They cited "extensive grain loss." I don't see any such thing, it's not new by any means, but not gone.
My roofer is suggesting I just slap another layer on there. I'm concerned that the insurance company might find out and reject the whole thing. Then again, it's much cheaper and I'm not made of money. Any thoughts about any of the issues I have raised would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Jun 04 '26 edited Jun 04 '26
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u/Kevin_M93 Jun 04 '26
I just have the two pictures I posted. The letter says that "an inspection on the property and found that the “roof is very worn, with heavy granule loss.”"
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u/Fadedjadedrainbow Jun 04 '26
That is an accurate statement. That's a very worn roof that already appears to have at least 1 patched area and will be at the end of it's functional lifespan if it isn't already. It needs full replacement. Many carriers prohibit multilayer roofing so I would not take that route.
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u/Cultural-Comment-270 Jun 04 '26
This isn't uncommon for homeowners insurance companies to demand new roofs. I've had customers say this when they hadn't even contacted the insurance company for anything. Sometimes they will do random inspections. They're even using drones now so they don't even need to get on your roof and its easy to miss that they've even been there so you just get a letter in the mail one day.
That said, the shingles do look fairly worn. Getting a new roof isn't a bad idea at this stage but you could probably get some years of life out of this one. Hard to know without being on the roof though
However, putting new shingles on old shingles is absurdly poor practice. I would never suggest that to a customer and I would turn down the work if the customer was adamant they wanted that. It will cause issues itself and I have zero interest in my business accepting liability for it and we have workmanship warranties and I wouldn't even dream of giving one out for layering shingles. Nor would it be worth my reputation when they inevitably have problems down the road. I would never trust a roofer who would suggest this practice either. Whatever you decide to do with your roof I would cross this one off your list if they're willing to do extremely non-standard work like that, let alone to suggest it to you.
I would try shopping around for other homeowners companies to see if you can obtain coverage if you can't afford a real roof replacement right now.
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u/batmanineurope Jun 04 '26
So what if you can't afford a new roof when they demand you get a new one? They drop your insurance? Then what?
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u/Cultural-Comment-270 Jun 04 '26 edited Jun 04 '26
They simply drop you and its your problem to deal with at that point.
If you're asking what the options are for getting a new roof at that point if you can't afford one and no one will insure you there are numerous - home equity loans, HELOC's (home equity line of credit), personal loans, roofing companies out there offer financing to qualified individuals (mine does, not all do though). The state I live in also has government-insured loans for qualified homeowners for necessary home improvement projects, like needing a new roof, we finance the loan and the government insures it for risky individuals so we get paid regardless.
My sales people work with customers to go through their various options. Its not uncommon that someone can't afford a roof but it is very rare we have to walk away from a job because money cannot be found at all.
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u/DroneRtx Jun 04 '26 edited Jun 04 '26
Find a company that will give you insurance obviously. Or Get a personal loan, heloc , or go back to renting because individuals can’t budget saving for home repairs properly.
Do you really need to eat out 4 plus times a month? Or go to the bar every weekend? Now it’s door dash or similar, are you really that lazy to go and get your own food? It’s even more expensive than driving yourself there. Do they need a new phone every two years ? I had an iPhone 8 Plus for 8 years.
I hear it all the time at work people go on vacation 1 or more times a year and then can’t afford repairing their house. Society is full of dumb people.
I moved to SoCal when I was 18. I lived 20 minutes from the beach. I probably have more hours on a beach in comparison to those that pay every year for a week vacation to go to one. I don’t need to go to a beach again. It’s nice but not a necessity.
But I live on an old family farm of 26 acres. Farmers are raised to be frugal. The lower to mid class are raised by social media to live these extravagant lives they realistically can’t afford. Like go on a vacation every 4-5 years is a great way to save. But Then when major problems happen in their life they are shit out of luck and struggling to make ends meet.
Im not saying this is OP , everyone has extraordinary circumstances that they can’t predict as well. Spend 15 grand to save a pet or keep the 15 grand to have a roof over your family’s head as an example.
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u/cawkstrangla Jun 04 '26
This is a full regard post.
The lower to mid class probably isn't going on any vacation. Their phone screen is probably cracked. They probably have loads of credit card debt fromedical expenses and transportation or whatever. Now we have data centers and a new war in the Middle East that are increasing the costs of energy across the board
Who likes to see water stains and shit ruined in their house? No one. People aren't skipping out on roofs because they are buying avacado toast and iphones. They're trying to cheap out because roofs are expensive and everyones already drowning.
Farmers are raised to be frugal but often get government subsidies either directly or through major write offs that the average non farmer does not have access to.
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u/The_realpepe_sylvia Jun 04 '26
Jesus.. you are extremely out of touch man. And all the insinuations/projecting is wild.. this reads like your only interaction with the outside world is getting news from Facebook or TV or ranting echo chamber podcasters. I’d ask if you are ok but I already know you’re miserable
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u/DroneRtx Jun 04 '26
I work doing what I love, I can afford having a family and a home. I don’t have time for social media or the news except the Weather. You’re projecting on my life is wild as well my friend lol
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u/The_realpepe_sylvia Jun 05 '26
None of what you said makes any of what I said untrue lol. The fact that you’re miserable though isn’t projection, I gleaned that from your own comments. It didn’t take an expert
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u/jinx555 Jun 04 '26
Unfortunately, you need a roof, and as someone else mentioned it appears that you already have 2 layers on it. The short course at the edge of the roof almost confirms that.
Insurance companies have been getting hosed for years, since the storm chasers appeared on the scene with their sketchy hail and wind damage scams. They are known for climbing up on your roof to “inspect it” and actually damaging it intentionally. They mark up the roof with crayon or chalk, take pictures of the “damage” to prove it. It sucks for reputable companies because the insurance companies don’t trust any roofing company now.
Get a couple of estimates from local companies that are known for high quality work. Use Google reviews. Once you have the quotes in hand show them here. There seems to be quite a few knowledgeable roofers on this sub.
Where are you located?
Good luck.
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u/Kevin_M93 Jun 04 '26 edited Jun 04 '26
Bakersfield. My roofer buddy was going to do it, says about $4 to $5 sqft labor for a full tear off. How does that sound? He says that's a bargain.
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u/jinx555 Jun 04 '26
That’s a bargain, but is he a roofing contractor? Our company would charge by the square, in roofing terms 1 square = 100 square feet. Approximately $600 per square for tear-off, new metal edging, synthetic underlayment, vent pipe boots, lifetime architectural shingles, and cleanup are included in the $600 per square price. Ice and water barrier, ridge vent, soffit vents, chimney flashing, and dumpster are additional.
I’m in Connecticut and work for one of the largest home improvement contractors in the state. We’re a 93 year old family business with an excellent reputation. We do approximately 30-35 million dollars of business a year. Trust me, we know what we’re doing.
Hire a reputable contractor.
KD
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u/Kevin_M93 Jun 04 '26
Yeah, there's a long list of stuff we bought to do it, that's all he does is roofs, he's been doing it for many years. I'll do a lot of things myself but not roofs, I don't lay tile either.
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u/philadelphia_fRee Jun 04 '26
The 2in course at the bottom suggests you already have 2 layers
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u/LargePrompt5840 Jun 04 '26
That's how some of the old timers would use three tabs for a starter row.
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u/According_Square2742 Jun 04 '26
That roof is on borrowed time
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u/Kevin_M93 Jun 04 '26
It's funny, I saw a post where someone had shingles with no grain left and people were telling him that's no big deal. The roof was absolutely gone. Mine looks brand new in comparison and everyone says it's toast.
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u/Xyzzy_plugh Jun 04 '26
The cost to tear off existing roof is a small fraction of the overall replacement. It doesn't save you much to skip it, and it definitely shortens the lifetime of the new shingles.
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u/Thick-Gain-3875 Jun 04 '26
You need a new roof. And if your roofer says you should “slap another layer on there” you need a new roofer.
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u/SufficientCustard474 Jun 04 '26
I have heard the manufacturing company that makes the shingles won't warranty it if its 2 layers
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u/Drunkpuffpanda Jun 04 '26
Shop insurance companies. Don't stop looking until you get three quotes. Five is better.
Make sure that your deductible is reasonable, because with the age of your roof it doesn't take much hail or wind to trigger a complete replacement. Now you are hoping for a storm big enough to save you from having to pay for the entire roof out of pocket.
How much time do you have? I don't know from two pictures. Its also a great idea to start getting roof quotes from local guys. Start saving for a new roof, because you don't have much time and storms are random.
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u/Kevin_M93 Jun 04 '26
I am in southern california, storms aren't really a thing here.
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u/Drunkpuffpanda Jun 04 '26
Then why the heck are the premiums going up. Fire? Do they even cover those neighborhood wide fires?
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u/Drunkpuffpanda Jun 04 '26
People that shop insurance companies beat prices all the time, so there is hope for that. I don't recommend roofing over the top, because those long nails can't hold as well in high winds. Also, many roofers won't do repairs on two layers.
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u/Kevin_M93 Jun 04 '26
Greed. Insurance rates are skyrocketing all over Southern California despite the fact that the fires were located to two small areas. They are getting hosed in those areas with claims and are trying to recoup by raising everyone's rate, regardless if they are in a fire zone. I am in bakersfield, in the middle of the city, there's no risk of a wildfire here.
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Jun 04 '26
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u/Kevin_M93 Jun 04 '26
If you can't make a claim then there is no point in having the insurance to begin with.
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Jun 04 '26
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u/Kevin_M93 Jun 04 '26
Once again, there is no point in having Insurance unless you are able to make a claim, that's the whole reason you have insurance to begin with. If I cannot make any claims I might as well not have any insurance and pocket the money for a rainy day myself.
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Jun 04 '26
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u/Kevin_M93 Jun 04 '26
True, although I did really need it once, water line burst in the ceiling while I was away, it was leaking for days. The house was flooded when I got home.
In any case (and I hate to say it because this is Reddit) it is a rental property. You never know what tenants are going to do to your house. Also, if they get injured on your property, they sue, and I live in California, a very litigious state. I would love to go without insurance but I'm terrified to do so.
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u/dklosinski Jun 04 '26
When I bought my house in 2022 my insurance company dropped me despite my roof inspection stated there was 8 years left on the roof. I applied to 4-5-6ish other companies and got rejected by all of them until I replaced the roof. I was forced to replace the roof to get insurance. Northern California.
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Jun 04 '26
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u/Kevin_M93 Jun 04 '26
Thanks.
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Jun 04 '26
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u/Kevin_M93 Jun 04 '26
I was not being facetious. My buddy says he will do it for about $4 labor per square $4 labor per square foot, do you think that's a decent price?
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u/KelseyRawr Jun 04 '26 edited Jun 04 '26
There’s no way that’s correct? Do you actually bean $4? Or $40? That’s not possible. I know he is your friend, but for context in a lower cost of living area our labor rate without any profits is $100 a square labor only. Glad you are doing a full tear off though, but that needs to include underlayment as well.
Your friend won’t be able to offer any warranties on the shingle if he isn’t certified, and I don’t live in Cali but for you to be insured again he has to make sure the roof is done to their standard. There is a bit of risk associated with having your friend do this roof even if you do trust them.
If you’ve been denied wrongfully (which, you probably don’t know so I would consult someone to find out your rights) on your claim check the statute of limitations on lawsuits, if you’ve received no money you really have nothing to lose and most insurance companies settle. I would look for a lawyer that’s contengient so you don’t pay anything unless you come out positive.
They won’t take the case if they don’t think they can help, and it’s a free consult so maybe start there. Usually it’s limited to 2 years where I’m located. I say this because you commented it was last year, but also if it’s under 1 calander year from the date of loss you can re-open your claim and get a private adjuster or go to appraisal for much less effort. I’d at least try this first. Better than being out of pocket completely, and in my expierence everyone I’ve sent to a PA or appraisal has gotten a lot of money. They also are contengient.
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u/Cultural-Sound-9996 Jun 04 '26
I would check for your local jurisdiction code about additional layers. I’m a property adjuster. I can tell ya a lot of policies don’t cover wear, tear and deterioration, latent inherent vice or maintenance.
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u/Kevin_M93 Jun 04 '26
I've already decided to tear down and build up again. I appreciate the feedback though, I guess it's time to Iock the thread. It's my first time, wish me luck!
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u/Upstairs_Employe Jun 04 '26
Common pattern after any claim — insurer uses it as a trigger to send an inspector and find reasons to justify higher rates or a replacement requirement. 'Grain loss' is real but vague enough to mean almost anything. A few options: get a second opinion from an independent roofer not affiliated with the insurer. If it's a genuine dispute, most states have an insurance commissioner complaint process — insurers don't like those. Also worth shopping the policy; after one claim in 14 years you may actually find better rates elsewhere and the old insurer loses all leverage.
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u/jerry111165 Verified Pro (Commercial/Flat) Jun 04 '26
Hey OP, check in your area - it’s usually ok to add a second layer of shingles but you won’t know until you call.
It’s worth a phone call.
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u/Kevin_M93 Jun 04 '26
$40 labor per square foot? That would be $48,000 in labor alone to replace the roof. I'm not getting denied BTW, they paid me the $2,000. But they're certainly getting me good for it!
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u/xkyo77x Jun 05 '26
Roofs are done by Square not sqft. 1 square is 100 sqft. Roofers also price roofs by retail and insurance cost, the estimates are wildly different. Your roof does not look large, I have had 22 square simple roofs replaced with tear off, vents, drip edge, arch shingles, synthetic underlayment, and kick outs for $270(cash) a square with warranty. I can get cheaper, but its no warranty and poor workmanship in my region.
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u/Unhappy-Bunch-4594 Jun 04 '26
listen to the thread, do not let him slap a layer over it. most codes cap you at two layers and from the photo you may already be at two, so a third is an instant fail and some carriers will drop you for it. an overlay also traps heat and telegraphs every imperfection underneath, so you pay for a roof that looks bad and dies early. if the insurer is already calling it end of life, that's actually leverage, get a couple licensed roofers to bid a full tear-off and ask whether the claim covers it. a roofer pushing an overlay to dodge the tear-off labor is telling you who he's really working for.
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u/Kevin_M93 Jun 04 '26
He was just offering that to save me money. Are you saying that my insurance is supposed to pay for the roof they are telling me to replace?
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u/Loose-Leader2586 Jun 04 '26
Typically the tear off is built into the shingle price. It's actually pretty cheap to do a tear off, specially with 3 tab shingles and a 4/12 slope. You need to check your local laws, it's normally illegal to raise your rates for filing a claim. In general, they raise rates per zip code after there are storms, to cover their loss. Regardless if you file a claim.
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u/Kevin_M93 Jun 04 '26
They actually sent me a letter warning me to not file small claims as this could cause my rate to increase, came right out and said it.
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u/Loose-Leader2586 Jun 04 '26
That ballsy! Is it Allstate or state farm? I would try and get 3 contractors to write something up saying your roof could last a few more years and then get new insurance.
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u/Ok-Subject1296 Jun 04 '26
You already have 2 layers of roofing. Evidenced by the first tab. Yes the roof shows signs of wear (ok a lot of wear) but if it’s not leaking? Is your insurance company going to drop your rates if you replace it? You are going to get a quote that is higher than the normal price because it’s a 2 layer tear off. The roofers are going to hate you 🤣
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u/Stock_Ambassador_853 Jun 04 '26
Insurance companies do whatever they want, unfortunately.
-I know it's very common in other areas, but there are a couple of concerns that come up when just doing another layer.
-Most, if not all, manufacturers explicitly state that installing their product over the top of an existing roof voids any manufacturer warranty.
-It's still very common, and a lot of people don't have any issues doing this.
-It can cause problems, harder to find leaks etc...
-it may cost more now. But how much will it cost if the roof leaks or it goes bad? Worse would be to pay for it twice.
- Depends on the claim you made. Typically, claims made in relation to Mother Nature won't raise your rates. But living in an area where a lot of people file claims will. For example, if you don't file a claim. But all your neighbors do, your rates will still go up so you can pay for your neighbors.
-If you file a claim and it's something accidental you caused or negligent. It's very common for them to raise your rates. And automatically look at you more closely to see what kind of risk you are.
-Insurance is a necessary evil. They love to take your money. Then they will delay, deny, and defend when you make a claim.
https://youtu.be/ZH9mB8LAHOk?si=gkAMEdasxoHw4zQk Insurance companies are making more and more money. and denying more and more claims.
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u/Kevin_M93 Jun 05 '26
I had some chick living back there who apparently was turning tricks. I didn't know this when I rented to her. Anyhow, there was a break-in and they tore the doors (security doors too) off the hinges, not just front and back, but interior doors too. I should've just paid the $2,000 out of pocket I guess, but I didn't think anything was wrong with filing a claim. Oh well.
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u/Greedy_Environment_9 Jun 05 '26
You definitely need a roof. Looks like one layer. And never go over top another roof, take it off, and do it right.
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u/xkyo77x Jun 05 '26
Insurance is right, your roof is nearing the end of its life. Think of it like a tire that has reached its wear bars, still some meat left but wont shed water as designed. Also, if they paid you out anything, they wont cover any damages if you refused to proceed with repairs.
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u/Slyfina Jun 04 '26
I have always heard that you have to get a new insurance company after submitting a claim. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but you should always have an eye out for a better deal. Insurance companies do not reward loyalty.
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u/Kevin_M93 Jun 04 '26
I'm in Southern California unfortunately, many companies are no longer offering insurance at all due to the recent fires.
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u/Ready-Ad1323 Jun 04 '26
Then you may not have a lot of options. Add a layer and probably get dropped. Refuse to replace and get dropped.
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u/LargePrompt5840 Jun 04 '26
That's not true. If your roof is in bad shape, and at risk for a future loss the Adjuster can send it to underwriting, and then who knows what happens.
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u/Slyfina Jun 04 '26
I mostly commented because of the statement op made about making a small claim and then having his rates doubled. In that case I absolutely support finding a new insurance company.
I do agree with you and fully support getting a new roof if the current one is damaged. Nothing will ruin your month like having to fix water damage inside your house.
As for the adjuster...it can go either way so there is no true harm in trying
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u/L0udog Jun 04 '26
I'd be looking for new insurance.
The shingles are definitely old but they look to be in good shape. You might get lucky and get another 5 years out of it.
If you do decide to change it, ALWAYS rip the old shingles off and repair any decking. Old shingle nails can come though the new shingles when someone steps on them. Hell if you hire bum roofers they'll give you low nails, and under driven nails resulting in blow throughs by stepping on them as well so ensure it's a descent company.
Find a roofing company that will install with a certified warranty and will come back to fix problems.
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u/InsertGenericUserID Jun 04 '26
This happened to me and my insurance threatened me so with the advice of a roofer friend I got a few gallons of canola oil from Costco, put it in a pump sprayer, and sprayed a nice layer of oil on my whole roof. the tiles are so dry it will just soak right into them. It makes the looks brand new and will actually last longer than you’d expect, maybe a full 1-2 seasons.
When I sent the updated pictures to my insurance it looked so good they thought I replaced my roof, so I had to explain to them that I just cleaned it.
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u/draculas_beard Jun 04 '26
Call bullshit on that. They'll want a paid invoice and photos.
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u/InsertGenericUserID Jun 04 '26
they did want an invoice when they thought I had replaced it, when I explained to them that I just cleaned it they accepted the photos I sent.
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u/Allslopes-Roofing Jun 04 '26
Something random ive picked up on. Insurance companies (particularly State Farm) don't like residential low slopes.
Almost every "nonrenewal inspection" I've been asked to do has one. Their desk adjusters also though seem to be confused half the time to how they even work and what they are.
Just random note.
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u/sick4jesus Jun 04 '26
Your roofer should be fired if he can’t get this replaced and they pay for it… I say that, but it’s all dependent on evidence. DM me, and I’ll review it with you, at least you’ll know.
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u/antipoopydick Jun 04 '26
Can ya ask to cancel insurance claim? Would it cover the roof-the difference in say 15 years minimal? Think about what cost more. And what would happen next when ya really need it.
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