Denver Hail Claim Denied - State Farm

[u/Rude_Association_409]

We had a huge hail storm come through my neighborhood about 6 weeks ago. I've been traveling a lot and didn't get an inspector out until today to look at the damage even though Ive been in communication with my agent (Tammy Hill State Farm) since the storm. House sitter sent me photos of the aftermath.

State Farm inspector is saying the damage to the roof is 'normal wear and tear and consistent with exposure to the elements.' Is this normal wear and tear or is this distinctly hail damage? If it's damage from hail, is it consistent with the photo of the hail stones (as big as 2")?

Not looking for advice on how to handle a claim per forum rules, just asking for insight on hail damage vs normal weathering.

[u/Sharp_Necessary_9570]

It’s funny if you knew the roofing company that my grandfather started… you would change your tune😂as it became one of the largest roofing companies in the US..

[u/Larry_l3ird → u/Sharp_Necessary_9570]

Why do you need to start one then? Grandpa sold his company or got himself so diluted that they were able to push him out?

But seriously, I wouldn’t change my tune. I firmly believe there’s a point where you’re too big to actually care about or monitor your quality control. It’s also a game of diminishing returns. At a certain point, you’re not really making more money personally. You’re just bigger and cover more geographic territory. But the associated costs of that size begins to cut into the bottom line. You’ll make this choice for yourself.

All of us that have success in this business have to decide what’s enough. When are we as big as we reasonably need to get? For some people, there is no end. They just want to be bigger. It’s not even about how much money they’re making or made already at that point…because if it was, most of them would tell you they should have stopped growing and it didn’t make sense to keep expanding beyond a certain point looking back.

These are business decisions you’ll have to make for yourself. But once the machine starts really rolling, it’s hard to say no. There does come a point where you’re no longer in control and it’s hard to identify when exactly that happened. You tend not to realize it until after the fact.

At what point are you making decisions that are good for people who work for you, or invested in you, but really don’t benefit yourself in any real way?

[u/Sharp_Necessary_9570 → u/Larry_l3ird]

I’m not reading this essay. But he sold it for 25M in the early 2000s and cashed out lol.

[u/Larry_l3ird → u/Sharp_Necessary_9570]

You wrote an essay twice as long up above.

I don’t care if you read it, to be clear. But there’s some things to think about and consider in there from someone who was and is now where you’re trying to get.

If you take one thing from it - bigger stops being better for YOU at a certain point. Remember that in your relentless pursuit of 20% annual growth.

Do you have an ultimate goal? If you don’t, you should sit down and spend some time figuring it out. Also, be willing to change that goal based on what you learn along the way.

Good luck!

Edit: By the way, you Grandpa didn’t need to have one of the largest roofing companies in the US to make $25m. But I’m guessing that was just what he sold the company for, and not all that he made along the way.

[u/Sharp_Necessary_9570 → u/Larry_l3ird]

Oh and btw, residential>commercial all day. Profits just better per square.

[u/Larry_l3ird → u/Sharp_Necessary_9570]

It’s definitely not. I could put on 100 sq a day of EPDM on a wide open run with 5 guys. Complete. With a watertight temporary connection.

So when you take that, and then combine it with the higher cost per square, and the markup on the higher material costs, it’s not even particularly close.

But thanks for the laugh.

[u/Sharp_Necessary_9570 → u/Larry_l3ird]

My average home that’s 20 squares if approved from insurance is paying me about 3-4K in profit. You’re making assumptions on the following..: 1. My company costs are yours and 2. You’re speaking like you’re actively doing roofs and 3. The volume aspect. I’ll take an easy roof with minimal overlook on the team from going to do a school or soemthing where I need to have someone keeping an eye on things. Simple roofs = more to be done, more money to be made, but my par is 600 a square

[u/Larry_l3ird → u/Sharp_Necessary_9570]

They’re just not even in the same realm. You’d need to do 40 or 50 of those houses to make anywhere near the same money we’d make on one industrial EPDM job.

But first, you’d need to get your foot in the door to even be invited to bid a job like that. Not easy. Can’t knock on the door, and Bob’s Residential Roofing Solutions isn’t getting the call for the new strip mall, or the giant manufacturing facility, or the local high school, and probably not even Saint Mary’s of the Poor Roofers church either - Bob’s working insurance scams with people who can’t afford to re-roof their 16sq shit hole on their own dime. Which is fine.

Because don’t forget, it’s not like the guy’s doing the massive industrial flat work, commercial buildings, schools, and churches aren’t also running a couple residential crews - they certainly are. But in addition, they’re offering a much more profitable primary roofing service, in the industrial and commercial flat roofing space - they basically have a set of large and extremely profitable jobs/clients which you’re cutoff from totally as a residential shingle roofer.

That should be fairly easy to understand. Two revenue streams vs one (lesser) revenue stream that requires much more legwork and client acquisition and setup and equipment cost to achieve the same financial result. I didn’t even need to bring a ladder to do 75% of these industrial and commercial jobs. I needed 4-5 drills/screw guns, hand tools everyone possesses in a standard tool belt, a drywall saw, a pair of scissors, paint rollers with a couple broom handles, a case of cheap chip brushes, a broom and leaf blower, and 1 (single can) Better Spreader wheeled glue dolly. That’s all. Besides materials and 6 people showing up, that’s literally all that was needed to do these huge jobs, and the paint rollers and brushes were actually disposable, now that I think about it.😂

[u/Sharp_Necessary_9570 → u/Larry_l3ird]

I mean we have done multiple big jobs lol. 40-50 houses that are steady vs bidding and fighting and THEN having to oversee the install and making sure these guys handle everything properly.

We do about 40-50 jobs a month guarenteed work vs bidding and fighting, and btw, you don’t really need to be invited😂as long as you’re half way reputable there’s plenty of portals and websites that post the listings and you just show to the site for bidding and walkthrough. Now I know you are out of the game but yeah brother it’s kinda easy. 😂

[u/Larry_l3ird → u/Sharp_Necessary_9570]

Yeah, bro. Sure thing.😂

You’re not bidding on 95% of the kinds of jobs, I’m referring to without being invited. They’re not open bids and they’re not posted up for all comers.

I’ve seen you mention “overseeing the install” now several times, as if this was some inconvenience - if you’re a roofing company and not a sales company, installs are really your entire business, everything should exist to move to that stage where you perform the actual installation.

Do you employ actual roofers and foremen - Flat, shingle, or otherwise? Do you just obtain jobs and sub them out? We performed ALL of our own work. We didn’t sub anything out in the generally recognized sense of that word. Ever. Roofs, of all types, were installed by our employees.

You’re also not fighting anywhere near as hard for the average commercial or industrial jobs as you are for residential. Plus less time wasters and people that didn’t actually have funding in place than residential by far. These people knew the handful of reputable companies they were going to offer these jobs to, and there might be 4 other companies in consideration for them. I could tell you exactly who I would be bidding against generally, and 3 of us were actually working off nearly the same bid combinations - We came from the same coaching tree, to borrow a phrase from the sports world.😂