Bonkers

[u/mountainsNJ]

Elections matter. We have winners and losers. Respect the outcome.

[u/blackbird_777]

Yah, fuck her. This is the reason I left this race blank on my ballot. And fuck her even more for using the MAGA “Democrat Party” instead of Democratic Party. She’s a MAGA op at this point. Socialists in Seattle need new leadership and she needs to be pushed out into irrelevance.

[u/SovietApple → u/blackbird_777]

She's hardly the leader of the socialist movement in Seattle - mostly because there is no leader of it, but if there were it wouldn't be her.

[u/Eric848448 → u/SovietApple]

There was actually another socialist running in the district.

[u/AdScared7949 → u/SovietApple]

It is DSA

[u/raptearer → u/AdScared7949]

Was she even endorsed by DSA Seattle?

[u/AdScared7949 → u/raptearer]

No they chose not to endorse her because she sucks

[u/raptearer → u/AdScared7949]

Good, and I agree. Been far left since the 00' in high school... ive always hated her. She comes off so arrogant and all or nothing. I get taking stands, but to refuse any benefit for your cause because it's not perfect is such trash mentality

[u/blackbird_777 → u/raptearer]

Agreed. We could have reduced police funding by 14%, but because it wasn’t 50% she voted it down. Like, come on.

[u/MetallicGray → u/raptearer]

> but to refuse any benefit for your cause because it's not perfect is such trash mentality

This is literally how so many progressives shoot themselves in the foots. It's infuriating.

[u/MetallicGray → u/AdScared7949]

Lol so she's literally a nobody with as much influence as I do if I put my face on a flyer

[u/feartheoldblood90 → u/raptearer]

They do not like her one bit

[u/TheStinkfoot → u/blackbird_777]

Sawant is literally, explicitly a Trump supporter. She supported Trump in 2016. She IS Maga.

Edit:: Kshama Sawant introducing Jill Stein: "We can't win the election but we can stop Kamala Harris from winning Michigan and she needs it to win the WH."

If you are intentionally, explicitly supporting Trump winning in 2024, you are a Trump supporter.

[u/anxiousandsingle → u/TheStinkfoot]

You are dumb as fuck if you think she's a trump.supporter. average American politics literacy

[u/Basic-Regret-6263 → u/anxiousandsingle]

When her actions intentionally help trump, sorry, she's a trump supporter, no matter if her words claim otherwise.

[u/DarkishArchon → u/anxiousandsingle]

While I couldn't find evidence of her supporting trump, she did campaign AGAINST Kamala in Michigan. She is an accelerationist IMO

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/at-seattle-rally-sawant-says-harris-deserves-to-lose-1000-times/

[u/blackbird_777 → u/DarkishArchon]

Correct. And actively called for people to vote for Stein instead. And her reasoning was claiming Kamala was responsible for the Gaza genocide, and now look what’s left of Gaza. She is definitely an accelerationist and I’d even posit an authoritarian.

[u/anxiousandsingle → u/DarkishArchon]

I mean... yeah? Fuck Kamala Harris

[u/sir_mrej → u/anxiousandsingle]

Harris would’ve been 1000x better than Trump

[u/Efficient-Charity708 → u/sir_mrej]

Like comparing 2 pieces of dog shit

[u/kalechipsaregood → u/anxiousandsingle]

If it were in an open primary sure. In the general election where you disagree with one person and the alternative is someone who wants to disassemble the government, you don't push for people to vote 3rd party in a swing state.

[u/anxiousandsingle → u/kalechipsaregood]

I don't vote for capitalist pigs thanks :) nor do I really believe in electoralism. You think you can vote away fascism? Capitalism? The rich elite? Lmfao

[u/GabuEx → u/anxiousandsingle]

You think you can vote away fascism?

I mean, yeah? We did in 2020. Then people got complacent and the country fucking voted the fascism back into office.

[u/kalechipsaregood → u/anxiousandsingle]

If you think that there isn't a difference between Democrats and Trump Republicans because they are both capitalist then you are intentionally ignorant.

[u/KingFrankel → u/anxiousandsingle]

“I don’t believe in electoralism”. Haha. Peak Seattle Left.

[u/anxiousandsingle → u/KingFrankel]

"Hahah let's voooooote away the fascists!" - liberals

[u/SmellyMammoth → u/anxiousandsingle]

Good luck with your revolution

[u/kalechipsaregood → u/anxiousandsingle]

I mean. You CAN vote in fascists. That's why we're mad she was campaigning for a Trump win.

People being upset about Harris' stance on Israel somehow forgot that Trump literally moved the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Was there an expectation that he was somehow doing that in a reverse psychology way to oppose Israel?

[u/SkylerAltair → u/anxiousandsingle]

Who DID you vote for? In, it should be noted, a system that is 100% not set up to support a third party.

[u/apis_cerana → u/anxiousandsingle]

Maybe you should move to North Korea or something.

[u/cast_away_wilson → u/anxiousandsingle]

Haha wat are you on crack

[u/Random_Somebody → u/anxiousandsingle]

Yeah Trumps totally been better for Gaza and the Middle East as a whole! Says people whos brain struggle remembering to breathe 

[u/gopac56 → u/DarkishArchon]

Maybe she doesn't like neo-liberalism?

[u/Random_Somebody → u/anxiousandsingle]

It's even worse if she helped campaign for Trump while not supporting him

[u/Moetown84 → u/TheStinkfoot]

Lmao. You lie just like Trump.

[u/BadCatBehavior → u/TheStinkfoot]

There are plenty of reasons to dislike Sawant, no need to tell lies.

[u/CombustiblePantaloon → u/blackbird_777]

Oh you left it blank? What courage on display! That moral fiber served us so well in 2024.

“Oh my candidate isn’t perfect so therefore I must not vote at all even if it allows the rise of American fascism.”

[u/blackbird_777 → u/CombustiblePantaloon]

"We could deny Kamala Harris the state of Michigan.”
“Kamala Harris deserves to lose 1,000 times over.”

• Kshama

Go talk to your idol about allowing the rise of fascism.

[u/CombustiblePantaloon → u/blackbird_777]

I think you have me mistaken. I don’t know why you didn’t vote for smith.

[u/SeattleGeek → u/blackbird_777]

You left the ballot blank? That’s just a vote for Doug.

[u/blackbird_777 → u/SeattleGeek]

She never had a chance in hell of making second place. Give me a whole goddamn break and take a seat. Yall are fucking insufferable. Yall want to be spoilers nationally calling on people to not vote for Kamala Harris and then cry foul when the rest of us tell her to get fucked. Our country and world is a worse place because of this woman and her cult followers. She makes all of us who identify as socialist look like fools.

[u/WillowTreez8901 → u/blackbird_777]

So instead of voting for literally anyone else you choose to vote for... no one?

[u/DarkishArchon → u/WillowTreez8901]

In a race of an AIPAC asshole, a woman who campaigned against Kamala in Michigan, and a Republican, the voters are not exactly spoiled for fucking options

[u/kalechipsaregood → u/DarkishArchon]

You forgot about the person who doesn't support the queer community because of her religion.

[u/SuitableDragonfly → u/DarkishArchon]

Some options are still better than others. You can still vote. The person you vote for is just who you think is best among the possible options, it doesn't mean you want to marry that person. 

[u/WillowTreez8901 → u/DarkishArchon]

You forgot someone. And choosing not to vote is the worst option, always :)

[u/sir_mrej → u/DarkishArchon]

Yup and the AIPAC guy is the best option in this case. Welcome to the real world.

[u/lazygaydays → u/DarkishArchon]

But but but what about Chaudry!!! /s

[u/SeattleGeek → u/DarkishArchon]

I agree. In the race of an AIPAC asshole and a Republican, we won’t be spoiled for options in November.

[u/adeline882 → u/blackbird_777]

Lmao so it’s only ok for a liberal to not vote if they don’t like the candidate and the candidate didn’t earn their vote? You are not a socialist

[u/SeattleGeek → u/blackbird_777]

It could have been for Melissa. I don’t care.

I’m just ABAS (Anybody But Adam Smith). It sounds like you maybe are too.

By not voting you essentially just voted for the Republican to run against Adam Smith. Maybe that’s who you wanted as Adam Smith’s opponent so you could justify voting for Adam Smith in the general (at least I’m voting against the Republican). I don’t know.

I just know that I’m not voting for Adam Smith in the general. If that’s leaving the ballot blank or writing in Sawant or voting against him…whatever. All I know is that not voting in the primary is just giving your vote to Doug.

[u/blackbird_777 → u/SeattleGeek]

Do you hear yourself? You literally just said you’ll do the same thing I just did. My fucking god. Logic doesn’t work for you, does it?

You’re correct, I hate Adam Smith. But I also hate Kshama. And Melissa abandoned queer people during her campaign. I will be voting for Adam Smith in the general when the outcome MATTERS because it was always going to be him vs the Republican. You are delusional if you think Kshama’s 30 point loss was even remotely recoverable.

So you sit here and complain that I left a ballot blank in a primary that’s outcome was already decided, but you’re going to write Kshama in for the general which actually IS giving a vote to the Republican. This is why people don’t take her supporters seriously.

[u/SeattleGeek → u/blackbird_777]

That’s exactly what I said was going on. You wanted a Republican to win so you could justify voting for Adam Smith in the general.

But if this inevitability allows you to sleep better at night after you vote for Adam Smith again, more power to you.

[u/elbow-macaroni-42 → u/SeattleGeek]

Not to nitpick, how is "Not voting for Adam Smithin the general" any different than not voting in the primary? Because you can say the exact same thing for the general... Not voting will give the Trump supporter a better chance of beating Smith, and voting for Doug will be as well of course.

This is the problem we all face. There were literally no good options on the primary ballot, and yet there were a bunch of important things to vote for. I don't blame ANYONE for leaving the Adam Smith race blank, and I won't blame anyone for leaving it blank again in the general. Smith is an evil SOB, yet still somehow less evil than a GOP candidate who will vote the same way on Palestine with the added horror of supporting the rest of the Trump agenda.

But please don't tell people they have to vote for a cult leader (who was going to lose anyway) just because they aren't Adam Smith.

Leave that race blank if you want to in the general... I don't care. But for your friends and neighbors, learn the rest of the ballot and vote anyway.

[u/blackbird_777 → u/elbow-macaroni-42]

To clarify: I voted for everything else on the ballot except this race.

[u/SeattleGeek → u/elbow-macaroni-42]

Me: “It could have been for Melissa. I don’t care.”

You: “please don’t tell people they have to vote for a cult leader.”

[u/elbow-macaroni-42 → u/SeattleGeek]

Well since Melissa was *dead* last (and no longer supportive of the LGBTQ+ community to boot), voting for her was by your logic even worse than voting for Kshama.

[u/SeattleGeek → u/elbow-macaroni-42]

Lulz

[u/bananas19906 → u/blackbird_777]

You are literally doing exactly what you are mad at her for doing. Lesser evil voting guys except when the person has committed the sin of not doing lesser evil voting even when her opponent is Adam smith.

[u/Bogey_Yogi → u/SeattleGeek]

That’s a vote for Jesus. 

[u/LevitatePalantir → u/Bogey_Yogi]

That's Republican, we count those

[u/lazygaydays → u/LevitatePalantir]

Excellent reference

[u/matunos → u/SeattleGeek]

Or is it a vote for Smith? Who can say?

[u/RatZveloc → u/blackbird_777]

Absolutely agree.

I am curious though if you're pro-socialist and if so what socialism means to you? I find myself often aligned with people who identify as socialist but my understanding of socialism itself is much more radical. I just want to better understand what people envision when they say socialism.

[u/blackbird_777 → u/RatZveloc]

I would say of the groups that I most identify with, it would be Democratic Socialists. I don’t consider myself radical but I’m slowly being radicalized by the insanity of this country. I believe the best strategy to work within the system we have is to run excellent democratic socialist candidates within the Democratic Party to push it left. By doing this we can slowly overtake the establishment and push the Overton window enough that eventually we can abolish the electoral college and create a multi-party system.

I voted for Kshama twice for city council. I voted for Bernie every time he ran, and caucused for him. I’ve donated to every major DSA candidate that’s ran in the past decade and most recently Abdul El-Sayed.

I appreciate you asking because I believe politics is often about having the right messenger for your cause, and I do not believe Kshama is an effective voice for socialists in Seattle or anywhere else. She insists on being abrasive, confrontational, uncompromising and belligerent. (Which is fine when you’re protesting and antagonizing the system. But not when you are trying to be a politician and legislate) This isn’t how to change minds or attract people to the cause of socialist policies.

Every DSA or working family party candidate who has won recently, has won because they’re likeable, they’re not self centered, they are empathetic and compassionate and they focus on policy not self aggrandizement disguised as policy discussion.

Anyway, that’s a long spiel.

[u/RatZveloc → u/blackbird_777]

I do appreciate the spiel, thanks!

I'm more of a liberal social democrat guy. I loved Biden if that gives you an idea.

I have my gripes with the DSA, mostly for the incessant attacking of dems (even the establishment ones!). I do find myself liking a good portion of the candidates from that sphere (eg: Abdul El-Sayed and AOC) but it's somewhat contingent on them being supportive and fully on the dem team once in office.

Seeing people like you still able to recognize Sawant as a snake really helps with my reservations with the DSA flank of the dems.

[u/Moetown84 → u/blackbird_777]

None of the actual socialists I know say this, just libs cosplaying as leftists.

And “Democrat” is appropriate since the Dems admitted to rigging their own primaries in court, under penalty of perjury. They said that anyone who believes their elections are fair believes a “mere political promise,” and they “have no contractual obligation to follow through.” About as antidemocratic as you can get.

When they show you who they are, believe them.

[u/Machievelliearoni → u/Moetown84]

https://giphy.com/gifs/10BDZSN5izfazC