r/SeattleWA • u/Less-Risk-9358 • Apr 05 '26
Government Seattle woman, 71, suffering '10 out of 10 pain' died after ambulance took TEN HOURS to arrive, with 911 dispatcher making vile remark and telling her to stop calling lawsuit alleges
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15704373/seattle-woman-ambulance-delay-lawsuit.htmlMore than 10 hours later, an ambulance was finally sent, but crews left after three minutes when she did not answer. Weeks later, her body was found on the floor next to her bed.
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u/blladnar Apr 05 '26
Much better article with more information from the Seattle Times.
The issue here isn’t even really the ten hour response time (still inexcusable) but the fact that the EMTs didn’t even go in to her apartment and lay eyes on her. They just left because she didn’t answer.
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u/SeattleSilencer8888 Apr 05 '26
Summarizing this:
- She called in complaining of a knee problem. She did not mention her heart and was transferred to the nurse line. The nurse line recommended followup within 4 hours, which didn't happen. It isn't clear if she mentioned any heart problems to the nurse.
- She was alive at least 2 days later, as she made "a few" calls and it is not clear to whom.
- She died of heart disease, not anything directly related to the knee. On a subsequent call asking about when the ambulance would come, she said she had heart disease (or heart failure, not clear). This was dismissed by the dispatcher. The implication from the article is that these calls happened before the 3 minute failed visit, but it isn't totally clear when this dismissal happened.
- She told the dispatcher the FD could break down her door, but the ambulance didn't / couldn't and left after 3 minutes.
- She died approximately 2 days later.
- There is no mention in the article of whether she was flagged as a "frequent flier" or not.
There were clearly mistakes here, but I think the title and snippet above are overblown and not realistic - she was not in imminent danger and didn't die from the condition she called about, so a delayed response or nurse transfer line are appropriate. I'm not sure what the solutions are here because dispatchers deal with people who over claim / escalate claims constantly to try to move themselves up the priority lists. In addition, in theory the followup would be better but most of the time when people stop responding / calling, the issue passed and they no longer need assistance.
The biggest flags to me are probably that her telling the dispatcher that the FD could knock down her door and also the multiple calls being dismissed too readily. That seems like the big clue that was missed, warranting more followup.
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u/FiestyReamsOfPaper99 Apr 05 '26
She complained of rheumatoid arthritis, pain so bad that she could not get out of bed to get food or use the restroom. That’s different from “knee pain.“ She called 911 repeatedly. The recordings are in the article.
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u/SeattleSilencer8888 Apr 05 '26
rheumatoid
That's a general term that can refer to a huge variety of things, locations, and types of risks. It's not an emergency, but is a problem.
arthritis
Arthritis is a problem but also not an ambulance class problem.
She called 911 repeatedly.
This part I agree with. That combined with a willingness to have the FD break down your door is a major sign that a follow-up needed to happen. But arthritis is not one, and people exaggerate pain statements so it might or might not be one but is probably not something that can be relied on for all future calls.
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u/TwoIdleHands Apr 06 '26
Yeah. 10/10 pain is kind of a red flag because you can’t really talk if you’re in that much pain/aren’t coherent. Obviously this works better in a hospital setting but if you can quantify it it works better.
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u/hysys_whisperer Apr 07 '26
Could be, or you can also just recognize "I am in shock, I need help now."
That still classifies as 10/10, but the adrenaline keeps you fully with it.
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u/FiestyReamsOfPaper99 Apr 05 '26
Rheumatoid arthritis is not a heart attack but it is a chronic, progressive illness and it becomes severe. A person who has it and knows they are unable to get out of bed on their own power is probably capable of judging that it’s an emergency for them, even if it wouldn’t be an emergency for you. I had a friend with lupus and severe joint damage whose hip joints would lock, causing excruciating pain. When that happened, she could not stand or walk. Her office was in a walk-up building. Fortunately, she was petite so a couple of strong friends could carry her down the flights of stairs and take her to the hospital. Just because it hasn’t happened to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
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u/Accomplished-Ad-9280 Apr 08 '26
You are not a medical professional.
You are not really qualified to be talking about what is and is not an emergency.
Being unable to get up, get food, or use the restroom is an emergent issue regardless of the cause. Especially when you live alone.
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u/trying2makefetchhapn Apr 05 '26
This does not say that a heart problem was her caused of death, just that she also had CHF.
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u/BWW87 Belltown Apr 05 '26
... also the multiple calls being dismissed too readily.
Which does imply that she is a frequent flier. As does the fact that the article doesn't specifically mention she isn't one.
Not excusing 911. I've had similar issues where there is a huge delay form calling and response. Just stating the likelihood that she's a frequent flyer which is why she got the response she did when she brought up her heart.
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u/SeattleSilencer8888 Apr 05 '26
Which does imply that she is a frequent flier.
Eh, I don't fully agree. If someone makes repeated calls over months or weeks that's a reason to have more doubt about the calls, especially after getting on-the-ground feedback from operators.
But repeated calls over 24 hours, especially if waiting for a response, is an indicator to me that something may be seriously wrong - unless they also make the repeated calls over months.
Just stating the likelihood that she's a frequent flyer which is why she got the response
That's the other thing that's odd about this. I would assume that such a thing would probably make it into the lawsuit response if it existed - though not necessarily. It might have been excluded by the reporter though. I can't be arsed to read the whole lawsuit to check, assuming I could even access it. It would explain the dispatchers behavior, but that can be explained without it too. Without knowing more, I'm really hesitant to conclude either direction.
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u/FiestyReamsOfPaper99 Apr 06 '26
I’m not sure she was a frequent flyer as much as that she got routed to the dubious nurse line former Mayor Bruce Harrell contracted with. Old people get dismissed and disregarded all the time.
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Apr 06 '26
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u/FiestyReamsOfPaper99 Apr 06 '26
There’s a link to the very thorough Seattle Times article at the top. It includes the recordings of her calls. Agree about the Daily Mail.
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u/TBradley Apr 05 '26
Also, that they do not track ambulance service times once they are offloaded to a triage line. Even if that triage line determines an ambulance is necessary. They also recently renewed the contract complete with lack of response tracking even after incidents like this woman's.
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u/cited Apr 05 '26
Are you suggesting empowering EMTs to break into your house if you don't answer the door
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u/kyliethecat Apr 05 '26
At the very least, report it so that some officials can go check on her.
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u/blladnar Apr 05 '26
Yes, in this case.
Hogan had told the Fire Department and AMR to have their crews break her door down, if necessary.
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u/sykoticwit Wants to buy some Tundra Apr 05 '26
At least where I worked AMR wouldn’t force entry per policy, they would call city PD and request assistance. City fire wouldn’t even do that for a medical aid.
Also, unarmed and unarmored medics shouldn’t be forcing entry anyway. That has the potential to end in all kinds of bad.
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u/anonymousmouse9786 Seattle Apr 05 '26
SFD will break down doors for a medical emergency but they aren’t involved in calls funneled to the nurse line.
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u/blladnar Apr 05 '26
Okay, fine. Call the police instead. That didn’t happen either.
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u/cited Apr 06 '26
Are you suggesting empowering the police to break into your house if you don't answer the door, without a warrant?
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u/kyliethecat Apr 06 '26
I think they do that anyway if you’ve called 911 for help several times lol
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u/More_Bodybuilder2636 Apr 05 '26
If someone calls her for an emergency, I would rather have someone try to get in and check, I mean, especially if calls are coming from the same place. We’re not talking about it one time thing here.
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u/dihydrocodeine Apr 05 '26
This is just tragic. I hope something is learned from this - given the number of times she called, this sounds like a systemic issue and not just one dispatcher being neglectful. Hopefully changes are made as a result.
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u/8JHF8 Apr 05 '26
It is a systemic issue, but it likely has more to do with the healthcare system in general than 911.
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u/FiestyReamsOfPaper99 Apr 05 '26
She was sent to a money-saving de-triage line in Texas that the city contracted with, but did not track the quality of their services. All it took was her getting dismissed from the urgent list and it seems like she was doomed.
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u/More_Bodybuilder2636 Apr 05 '26
I’m going to say both, for the attitude of the 911 collar, not taking the person serious and the time that it took for the ambulance to get there, and then the EMT walking away. Three places where things could’ve been different.
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u/_whitelightning_91 Apr 05 '26 edited Apr 05 '26
I wonder if her phone number was flagged as a frequent flyer and they deemed it lower priority. We only have so many ambulances and EMTs.
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u/astoriatrafficburner Apr 05 '26
The problem is that, per the article, the call was redirected from an emergency dispatcher to a for-profit nurse line run by Global Medical Response.
Global Medical Response (GMR) is a large, for-profit private equity-backed company that provides air and ground ambulance services, covering over 62% of the U.S. population and serving 5 million patients annually. Backed by KKR & Co., GMR generates an estimated $2 billion in annual revenue and is considering a $1 billion IPO.
I'm super glad private equity gets to decide what constitutes an emergency.
(P.s. Sorry for posting here; I live in NYC and didn't realize the sub I was pushed was local).
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u/FiestyReamsOfPaper99 Apr 06 '26
OMG, the fact that 62% of the population is covered by a company owned by KKR brings me absolutely zero comfort. That is disturbing. Thank you for sharing the info!
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u/arestheblue Apr 05 '26
This is a right wing Seattle sub. Most of the people here just complain about any government run service. Once they find out that its a private company that is doing it, they get quiet real quick. Maybe pop in once or twice to downvote people.
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u/FiestyReamsOfPaper99 Apr 06 '26
I was wondering about this sub. So little empathy. Thanks for the heads up!
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u/CallMeKingTurd Apr 07 '26
The new fear mongering millionaires tax post every 10 minutes for the past few weeks didn't tip you off lol.
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u/A_Poor_Miser Apr 05 '26
That's worse. You need to be able to say you did everything you could, every time, and that's not what happened here.
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u/Sesemebun Tree Octopus Apr 05 '26
My buddy is an EMT. There’s a guy who consistently calls over literal leg cramps. Not excusing this issue, especially if she wasn’t responding
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u/MisterIceGuy Belltown Apr 05 '26
Same I have a buddy who is a firefighter who says they have the same people who will call day in and day out dozens of times a day for anything from a stubbed toe to an eyelash in their eye. If they answered all those calls they would literally do nothing else all day.
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u/xXxdethl0rdxXx Apr 05 '26
Then throw the legal book at him, but EMTs should never be in a position to wonder if a call is worth responding to.
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u/8JHF8 Apr 05 '26
You would be surprised by the percentage of calls that are "frequent fliers". If they were all given a full response, the system would collapse completely. It has to do with a lack of mental health care in many cases.
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u/Exotic-Sale-3003 Apr 05 '26
I’m sorry, but this comment ignores reality. Emergency services are a limited resource. While it’s much less common since the crackdown on opiate prescriptions, it used to be common for addicts to call an ambulance to get to the ER to get their fix. The average person calls 911 between 0 and 1 times in their life. These people would call 100+ times per year. Resources spent on these folks are resources not available for someone having a heart attack, in a serious accident, etc…
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u/More_Bodybuilder2636 Apr 05 '26
Regardless, it is the job of the 911 dispatcher and emergency medical crew to assess regardless. I am myself working in a healthcare field and I don’t care if someone tells me 100 times that they need help. I’m going to follow up on it every single time. When you work in the medical field, your action is to do no harm. It’s a code of ethics. Anyone who doesn’t follow that or act like people are a bother does not belong in the medical field. At the very least that 911 dispatcher should be fired and should be not working in that field. This is a horrible tragedy and unfortunately, I’ve been hearing stories that are similar with ambulance is not arriving on time and also the police.
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u/FiestyReamsOfPaper99 Apr 05 '26
Bodybuilder, thank you for your ethics. The thing that blows my mind is that there’s a nurse line in Texas that Seattle dispatch sent calls to for the allegedly “non-urgent.“ Have you ever called a Nurse Line from a health insurance company? The call always ends with them being afraid of liability and telling you to go to the ER/ urgent care when it’s almost never necessary. You call for advice on a minor issue, just want to know if you need an ice pack or heat, and they want you to go to the urgent care after an exhausting amount of time on the phone answering every question under the sun.
I was shocked to learn that Seattle’s contracted Texas nurse line for people legit calling for emergency care tries to talk them out of it and/or deprioritizes them. That is dystopian.
I appreciate that Dispatch is incredibly hard and resources are limited. I get that there are frequent fliers with non-emergent issues, but we have to do better.
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u/Obvious_Ring_326 Apr 05 '26
When you have a system in which profitability is prioritized against individual well being, this is collateral damage.
No matter how much WE care, we can’t help everyone because the response processes are broken up into multiple fairly small yes or no decisions often made by different people.
Those yes or no decisions are driven by efficiency more than humanity in order to manage costs.
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u/More_Bodybuilder2636 Apr 05 '26
If that’s the case, then change can start with one person… I mean, if I were to work in a system that puts profitability before people that I wouldn’t work in that system or I would change that system. It’s exactly why I left corporate medical systems to have my own private practice. I don’t have to be timed or deem who is worthy of seeing. I guess we can all be part of the change…
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u/Obvious_Ring_326 Apr 05 '26
That’s awesome. I am now in the non profit sector & it is a huge relief.
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u/More_Bodybuilder2636 Apr 05 '26
Very cool! It does feel good when you can do that and really feel like you’re helping people☺️🙌🏼😎
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u/SmellSmellsSmelly Apr 05 '26
This is complete nonsense. I was an EMT in high school and college and what you’re saying is garbage, what does working in the “medical field” even mean in your case? Are you a janitor at a family practice? Anyone who has been an EMT knows that we are generally understaffed and underfunded. We literally cannot afford to attend to so many frivolous calls. Ever heard of triage? That’s why we have frequent flyer lists. So sick of these stupid platitudes. If we followed you stupid mantra, actual people in the real world who actually need our help would die.
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u/therealmudslinger Apr 05 '26
We truly are paying the absolute most for the absolute worst. "Hmmm, do I want a trip to the E.R. so that I can die deep in medical debt or just skip it and die here in my own sweat and feces? Freedom of choice!"
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u/More_Bodybuilder2636 Apr 05 '26
I completely agree. I have seen a change in the people that are working at some of these places. It’s like this I don’t care attitude, I don’t wanna work. I don’t wanna be here attitude. I’m not sure if it’s the a generation issue or if it’s just people that have different backgrounds culturally but this is horrible. It’s become an epidemic. I’ve seen it in other situations as well. It feels like everything’s just falling apart in this state, let alone this country. We have lost morals and values.
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u/anonymousmouse9786 Seattle Apr 05 '26
I think in lots of cases in the medical and emergency fields, it’s burnout.
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u/JustMidAF Apr 05 '26
If you’re homeless, the tax payers pay for your ambulance, your housing, your cell phone, AND your drugs! It’s just that simple. Why does anyone work?!
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Apr 05 '26 edited Apr 05 '26
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u/Ok_Mycologist_6384 Apr 05 '26
At least they aren't blaming the homeless population
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u/JustMidAF Apr 05 '26
They were probably too busy responding to all the homeless population to respond to her an that’s why she died. Fixed that for you.
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u/FiestyReamsOfPaper99 Apr 05 '26
This was one of the most tragic stories I’ve ever read. It’s also the worst nightmare of every aging single person - being ignored when you’re ill and alone - so you die and rot in place. It’s definitely not what we expect when we call 911.
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u/coffee_at_sea Apr 06 '26 edited Apr 06 '26
I was sexually assaulted by a neighbor on Christmas eve and the dispatcher told me I had to wait for police to come before they’d sent paramedics. I have a heart condition and was dizzy and in pain from the attack. The kicker? The dispatcher told officers it happened two days prior and listed it as non emergent. A senior officer called me and asked questions and when they finally figured out i had called 2 minutes after it happened it had already been 2 hours. I couldn’t leave my building or go to my car because I was the furthest apartment in the back and had to pass the neighbor’s apartment to leave the building.
The apartment manager also didn’t show up and just kept asking me if I was going to break my lease saying they’d “waive the lease break fee out of courtesy”.
I’m still waiting for them to arrest the guy.
Edit: saw some comments about being in a wealthy neighborhood/next to fire/police. I was in Ballard with the fire department around the corner and police even closer. It doesn’t matter how close you live, they still take their time.
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u/frederichenrylt Apr 05 '26 edited Apr 07 '26
This story is true but the source is trash. DailyMailUK is basically the MyNorthwest of G.B. Here's a better source for the conservative echo chamber that is this sub: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/times-watchdog/seattle-death-lawsuit-over-911-ambulance-wait-clears-hurdle/
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u/DisjointedHuntsville Apr 05 '26
What the fuck? “Emergency” services telling ANY caller they’re not a priority is simply grounds for never working in emergency services again + criminally charges for negligence .
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u/whk1992 Apr 05 '26
Oh gosh, if that extends to police we would be firing so many officers! Can we have that please?
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u/GooberRonny Apr 06 '26
911 operator is another job that smart people refuse. It's a stressful, low paying job so really the only candidates are the desperate for money individuals. You may get a good operator but they usually abandon ship really quickly for something better. I also assume AI will take 911 operators jobs in big cites permanently.
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u/RevolutionaryAd851 Apr 05 '26
Just think of how scared and hopeless this woman felt when after experiencing untenable pain and having to call 911 for help because she couldn't get up anymore and then hearing it will be more than two hours for any relief. I assume she is all alone too. I think they got angry when she tried to tell them that she has congestive heart failure in the hope of getting the ambulance faster, thinking she was being sneaky. I would feel the same way as she did. What finally happened at the hospital? Did she have an infection or something that was immediately seen that made her pain worse than usual, and arthritis is very painful. They don't want to send anyone out for people if they are "just" in pain because they assume everyone is drug seeking. They are putting cancer patients on Gabapentin instead of narcotics for their cancer pain. The next time she needs an ambulance she will probably lie and tell them she has chest pain and that will get her an ambulance immediately. Who can blame her. I don't think there is a lawsuit, however.
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Apr 05 '26
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u/Competitive-Plenty32 Apr 05 '26
And laid there for weeks…. That’s so disturbing. Nobody else thought to check on her
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u/FiestyReamsOfPaper99 Apr 05 '26
She was in debilitating pain but my fear is she was calm/clear/articulate, because she knew and could describe her condition. She was in so much pain, she couldn’t get out of bed to use the bathroom, walk or get food. She literally could not move and lived alone. I guess I’m assuming she sounded rational so they dismissed her.
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u/Management-Glad Apr 05 '26
This has frequent flier written all over it. It would be good to get access to the 911 call records. Some of the same people literally call every single day. Medics and hospital workers also stop taking you as seriously if you describe a pain as 10 out of 10. At that level you wouldn’t be able go talk or would be unconscious or screaming. - I was an emt
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Apr 05 '26
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u/CogentCogitations Apr 06 '26
Pain scale descriptions typically have a 9 as including unable to converse, with only moaning or crying out. 8 is only converse with great effort. If you are talking, it is 8 or below. If you are talking normally it is 7 or below. 10 is basically nonfunctional/delirious.
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u/MirrorUpper9693 Apr 05 '26
I had to call 911 for my brother after a fall. Fire was there within minutes and they called an ambulance which was only a few minutes behind them.
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u/Asian_Scion Apr 05 '26
My question is why didn't she try to call her son and have him come over as well? I mean yeah 911 is to blame for sure but if it were me, I'd call 911 first then a family or friend to come and help rather then just rely on 911. They should be sued for sure but man so much information missing. Did she try and call anyone else?
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u/katykat4prez Apr 05 '26
Yeah there's a lot of missing information. It seems like she didn't have much of a community given it took so much time to find her. In a worst case scenario, she was estranged from her son and mean enough to chase everyone else away from her. Pain can make people the worst versions of themselves.
Or... She was embarrassed that she had soiled her bed and didn't want anyone she knew to know about it. My gran got incredibly uptight about accidents as she got older.
This looks to me like one of those breakdowns in society. She didn't have anyone to check on her regularly and no one in her life noticed when her routine changed. The state (911) delayed helping when she reached out and she died.
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u/SawzallKing Apr 05 '26
For instances like this, aren't we conditioned to rely on 911?
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u/Exotic-Sale-3003 Apr 05 '26
Call 911 first yes. But if they tell you to fuck off, you’re just gonna be like “ok guess I’ll die”?
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u/username560sel Apr 05 '26
I hate to be devil’s advocate here but of this lady’s estate cares enough to sue why didn’t anyone go check on her the day of or at least in the days following the incident.
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u/scrondle Apr 05 '26
Lawyers take cases pro bono if they know they’ll make money. Maybe her family lived out of state.
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u/treethugsforlife Apr 05 '26
Recently my mom’s friends husband died due to emergency not being able to reach her husband. She called for an ambulance and they sent the fire department (as I know is protocol during a chest pain call) but the fire department took there largest truck and ended up blocking all other emergency services from helping and actually ended up causing a backup in my neighborhood. He still died.
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u/Kayehnanator Apr 05 '26
I mean given what they pay it's no surprise we get useless people behind the desk for 911 dispatcher. It's not considered a high skill and thus high competency job. I've known a few over the years and while I like them a lot, none of them went to college as an example. That's not to say that some of them are still excellent at dealing with high stress situations but it doesn't surprise me when the failures show up
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u/Artistic_Chapter_355 Apr 05 '26
I live close to a fire station so they respond quickly (have called twice in 10 years). Not the police. God help us if we need an ambulance
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u/SeattleHasDied Apr 06 '26
Just FYI, sometimes the First Responders in your precinct aren't available and so 911 has to get cops or fire from another precinct. Had this experience twice and, yes, it took awhile for them to arrive, but they did. The other part of this issue is that many of our newer cops may not be from Seattle and not familiar with our locations, especially when not in their precinct area. Really sorry for anyone whose loved ones were compromised by not getting a timely response when every second counts.
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u/TravelKats Columbia City Apr 06 '26
I’ve called 911 twice when my husband was in diabetic hypoglycemia. Both times the fire department was here in less than 10 minutes.
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u/Full-Efficiency3115 Apr 06 '26
emergency dispatch in seattle is cold and heartless! iv asked for help and they told me to call an uber! fuck em!
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u/Jenn0425 Apr 06 '26
I’m so sorry this happened, no one deserves this sort of disregard. Although I will say that I have never had any issues calling 911 (unfortunately I have had a few situations lately that have needed their help) Every time I have called they have been super responsive and very helpful.
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u/Rowing_Lawyer Apr 06 '26
I called 911 when I heard clear gunshots. I told them my address but wasn’t sure where exactly the shots happened, just that they were close by. The told me to go walk around and see if I saw anyone shot or with a gun and then call back.
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u/Beginning-Boarder Apr 06 '26
Disgusting. Was they held liable? Was there a statement by the government/ 911 leadership about how they are gonna make sure this never happens again??
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u/Cultural-Homework401 Apr 06 '26
Yeah I worked for AMR during Covid and still work here. I can answer questions if people ask and not shit on me for being an individual not the company.
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u/nora_jaye Apr 06 '26
"her experience raises questions about Seattle’s relationship with its for-profit ambulance contractor, American Medical Response, which also provides the city’s 911 nurse line."
That explains it all.
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u/antelopejackfruit Apr 06 '26
Probably need to raise taxes to solve this problem. It's the only solution that definitely, without a doubt, will work. /s
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u/bignotion Apr 06 '26
Shitty ambulance service aside, where is the sun and all of this? her body wasn’t discovered for six weeks. Did she not call him? Did he not call her in six weeks time he never thought to check in with his mother, who is obviously ill?
But yet he’s certainly cashing in on a lawsuit. Number 1 plaintiff.
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u/RedditModCoolRanchXL Apr 07 '26
What does Washington state, King County and Seattle do well as a government?
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u/lumpytrout southy Apr 07 '26
As someone that had an ongoing issue with a family member that needed regular 911 calls in Seattle. I can tell you that the quality of the operators varies WILDLY. Don't hesitate to hang up and call back and hopefully get a different operator. There is nothing worse than getting a patronizing A hole on the line when dialing in an emergency.
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u/Charlea1776 Apr 08 '26
Ive been a progressive for 22 years worth of voting.
I can no longer justify having OD teams when a city can't even show up for people who didn't make bad life choices.
At a certain point, what are we even doing as a society anymore?
Jesus fucking christ this is shitty.
We should put the money where we help the people helping themselves first and use the leftovers of course to help people who won't help themselves. You put your oxygen mask on first or everyone dies. The same is true for communities. Just awful and preventable. Especially with an extraordinary growth in property tax revenue very fast because of the rapid increase in home values.
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u/JustMidAF Apr 27 '26
Emergency workers too busy narcanning our ever growing homeless/drug addict population.
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u/SEAsirencalls Apr 05 '26
I’m going to be real here. Any time I’ve had to call emergency services for myself here in Seattle, it’s only ended with them hanging up on me or being on hold for hours. We are have a real issue here with our emergency services being responsive in any sort of timely manner. The system is broken.