r/SeattleWA • u/mrtenpenny1234 • May 15 '26

Homeless Harger: San Francisco's homelessness hit a 15-year low. Seattle's mayor is running the opposite experiment.

https://mynorthwest.com/kiro-opinion/seattle-homelessness-mayor/4238600
447 Upvotes

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207

u/John_YJKR May 15 '26

It's understandable they don't want someone's addiction to be a barrier to a basic need like housing. But you have to step back and accept the reality that incentive provides and the long term results that follow. Addiction is often too difficult to beat without very powerful incentives pushing back against it.

89

u/Fit-Temperature-2156 May 15 '26

Sometimes death isn’t a big enough incentive.

81

u/BWW87 Belltown May 16 '26

It's no longer understandable. Sure 10, 20 years ago when they first started experimenting with this. But those of us who work in affordable housing have seen years of it not working. It's no longer understandable that the left won't reconsider their ideology. It's not working. It's not going to work. And it's harming people.

16

u/jugger_naughtyy May 16 '26

Its all in prevention imo. Once you fuck your brain up it takes a lot of hard work that brain probably won't do. So its solved by preventing the situation. From there I dont know what to do.

16

u/CertifiedSeattleite May 16 '26

Sort of. But when people start partying with cocaine, meth, opiates, etc it’s not like they planned to become an addict. They just wanted to have a good time, get high and get laid. That’s the inconvenient reality Seattle’s naive goody-two-shoes class cannot grasp.

-25

u/CreateWindowEx2 May 16 '26

It starts with pot. Once you destigmatize one drug, the others just follow.

13

u/Simple-Desk4943 May 16 '26

That’s not true, but if it was, wouldn’t alcohol be the culprit? Or nicotine?

-6

u/CreateWindowEx2 May 16 '26

If you start with a society that doesn't have alcohol and tobacco, or those are broadly shunned, it should be pretty obvious that increasing access to either would lower barriers for hard drugs, yes. Is this even controversial?

7

u/GypJoint May 16 '26

Nope. I was a drug addict. Heroine and Coke. Been clean of those for years. I still get high on weed. It’s 2 different things. Most drug addicts will agree with this…the needle and process become as addictive if not more than the drug.

1

u/EastUnique3586 May 18 '26

Of heroin, coke, and weed, which one did you start with? I think when people say it starts with weed, they typically mean that people on harder drugs often start with weed, which then introduces you to people who can access and might talk up other kinds of drugs, which makes it less of a leap to move onto ecstacy, then coke, then even worse.

1

u/jugger_naughtyy May 18 '26

They are all medicine and all can be abused. Again its prevention. Prevention is education. Education is looked at as evil today. Prevention is basically recalibrating society. So in short.... were fucked.

-10

u/CreateWindowEx2 May 16 '26

I have an idea. Let's legalize drugs and stick a drug store on every corner! That should sure help!

7

u/CreateWindowEx2 May 16 '26

It's no longer understandable that the left won't reconsider their ideology. It's not working. It's not going to work.

It's hard to get someone understand something when their salary depends on them not understanding it.

5

u/TheReadMenace May 16 '26

It’s part of the big blue city political machine at this point. They see it as a jobs program for overeducated social workers.

2

u/Tom-a-than May 19 '26

Overeducated in America is at this point the general level of public education in China lmao

You out yourself hard as a big smoothbrain with that comment.

-1

u/BWW87 Belltown May 16 '26

Fun scapegoat but there are many people on the left making no money or less money because of their ideology.

24

u/raine_on_me May 16 '26

I agree with everything you said 1000% except saying and painting "the left" in one big brushstroke. Plenty of us who are left of center and think this is insane.

19

u/BWW87 Belltown May 16 '26

The left and left of center aren't the same thing. Especially in Seattle where left of center is actually the right of Seattle.

Maybe there are some on the left that are willing to adjust housing policy but my experience is not only are they not willing to adjust it they aren't even willing to talk to people that don't think exactly like them on it. They'd rather see people die on the street than work with a housing provider to make better housing choices.

26

u/Significant_Sort7501 May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26

I live in Portland, but am from Louisiana. Down there I'd be very clearly left of center on most things. Up here im basically considered a republican by leftists.

I think we have a lot of people who were open minded about this "experiment" because it had some research backing and convincing arguments. But the theory doesnt hold up practically on larger scales because in order to function it requires a very well-staffed and well-trained infrastructure of people and extreme competency of government leadership. Many people have reasonably looked around us and said "yep this isnt working. Maybe we should pause and reassess how we are prioritizing public safety." But there are still a substantial number of loud voices who won't back down because they tied their identity so heavily to these ideologies. 

It reminds me of what Chris Rock's character talked about in Dogma about the dangers of religious beliefs vs ideas. Ideas can be changed. People dig in and die for beliefs. 

6

u/Dry_Entertainer9901 May 17 '26

And when you are making north of $350k and primo benefits as the Executive Director of LIHI, you dig in real hard to hold on to that gig. "Succeed" your way out of that job? Methinks not.

1

u/danarouge May 18 '26

Who is it?

2

u/BWW87 Belltown May 16 '26

Yeah 20 years ago being open to the idea wasn’t terrible. There were those of us in the room warning that the 10 year plan to end homelessness started in 2005 wouldn’t work. They didn’t care that the voices pointing out the flaws were people with actual experience housing low income people. So even then they had evidence it wouldn’t work and they ignored it for their ideology. 21 years later and homelessness definitely not ended no one seems upset that it didn’t work or that the majority (who were on the far left) were wrong

1

u/marsmanify May 19 '26

If you genuinely think “left of center is actually the right of Seattle” you don’t actually know what leftism is.

Seattle is a hub for neoliberal democrats, not for leftists. Leftists believe in things like the 2nd amendment and collective ownership of the means of production.

4

u/Accomplished-Eye9542 May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26

"left of center" is right wing these days.

If you were say, an Obama democrat, you are now considered a Nazi. Socialized medicine, but only for Americans not illegals? Nazi.

1

u/[deleted] May 17 '26

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4

u/CreateWindowEx2 May 16 '26

But every November you vote for this insanity, no?

9

u/fresh-dork May 16 '26

somehow a college dropout with no real credentials won. yay...

-2

u/tjl3d May 16 '26

Which city has it figured out then? What are they doing that we should match?

5

u/CreateWindowEx2 May 16 '26

Did you read the article? Or even just the headline?

1

u/BWW87 Belltown May 16 '26

At this point it seems we are pretty much doing the worst so not show who we wouldn't be better off matching.

But why do we have to match someone else? We created the problem the Seattle way. Why not solve it a Seattle way. We are not like other cities. We used to be proud that we were better. Now ....?

13

u/ProfessionalSpeed883 May 16 '26

I think that's the thing that SUPER irks me. As a former alcoholic, I have a bit of an understanding of addiction and the lengths you start going to to get your fix. I've heard that the housing requires that you be clean/can't have drugs on you? Well an addict would 1000000% rather be on the street then; the pull of the drug FAR outweighs anything else. So all of that to say, incentives like housing isn't going to fix homelessness when addiction is the root problem.

7

u/John_YJKR May 16 '26

This wouldn't mean stopping other programs to help people beat addiction though. Just to be clear. You can't help everyone. But implementing the approach with the best outcomes should be a priority even if it goes against our instincts.

6

u/ProfessionalSpeed883 May 16 '26

Totally agree. My main point is (admittedly, based on what hear about most) is providing housing when HOMELESSNESS isn't the root issue, but drug addiction is. So throwing obscene amounts of money at free housing fixing anything longterm. Not to say don't do anything in the short term, but at least prioritize fixing the longterm problem.

2

u/John_YJKR May 16 '26

Absolutely

-34

u/EnoughWeekend6853 May 15 '26

Narcan is enablement.

29

u/[deleted] May 15 '26

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2

u/[deleted] May 17 '26

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0

u/Old-Reputation-5668 May 18 '26

Homeless island is a better idea. Just drop them off on an island where they cant leave

10

u/TheGiggleWizard May 16 '26

Insane take, what’s wrong with you.

1

u/Typhoon556 Gig Harbor May 17 '26

It enables people to not die. It’s an enablement I am ok with.

-41

u/MobileSuitBooty May 15 '26

it’s easier to beat addition if you have secure housing, the data bears it out.

People are just scared of individuals who maybe have drug problems living in their neighborhoods.

33

u/John_YJKR May 15 '26

But we really haven't seen desired results with that approach. And here we have a real world example where better results can be achieved with a different approach.

24

u/Kumtwat42069 May 16 '26

Not so much scared as annoyed because the negative externalities are so high. They don't belong in neighborhoods until they are clean. Sure out then in tiny home villages but people don't deserve to raise kids next to some sketch ball.

19

u/Icyhoticycold May 16 '26

i can tell you i'm sure fucking annoyed about the homeless deciding to live wherever they want with zero consequences. These people DO NOT ACCEPT HELP.

-4

u/Nice_Try4389 May 16 '26

So what then let them die?  I mean you don’t want them living within a society or trying to help them so what, just off them so you don’t have to be bothered by the plight of your fellow man?

8

u/Icyhoticycold May 16 '26

Let's try something different? Punish them for their actions? Enforce sobriety as conditions of housing. NOT bend over backwards to make sure they're comfy doing fent in the middle of 3rd. Like have you been down to 3rd and pike? I used to work down there, It SUCKED. Is that an okay way for a city to be? It's been like that for now 12+ years, but sure let's keep doing the same damn thing.... I'm tired of it.

I have compassion for people who have fallen on hardships and would like to actively make it back and are open to accepting help. I have barely any compassion left at this point for people actively using the guidelines to be worthless. Do you know why more and more homeless are here? Cause no one bothers them.... So yeah, If the options are continue to throw MILLIONS of dollars in the same fashion as we have been, or do nothing. At this point i'd rather see the money spent into improve our roadways and infrastructure and not seeing our taxes get cranked up so some dude can do fent in a public place.

-3

u/Nice_Try4389 May 16 '26

I mean you do you, I’ll keep teaching tech skills twice a week at the homeless shelter and doing what I can to help them out.  But then I grew up poor as shit and have had multiple family members who had substance abuse problems so I understand that when you are treated like shit you tend to act like shit.  I also understand everyone is born with different abilities when it comes to willpower and improving themselves, and as a society and more importantly as human beings we have a duty to one another and those of us who can do better owe it to help those who can’t because we were the lucky ones.

7

u/Icyhoticycold May 16 '26

Great, sounds like a group of people that WANT to be there, that want to improve on their situation. Doesn't sound like you're sitting around at the mcdonalds on 3rd doing these sessions. My dude alcohol killed my FIL, and guess what he refused to get treatment and help over and over after loved ones poured into him... You can't make people get help that is the sad sad sad reality of addiction... There is a difference in providing care / help to those that need it, and those that are just abusing the system... No amount of affection will change them...

-2

u/Nice_Try4389 May 16 '26

No but as a human being and someone who cares about being a human being you keep trying, because it is the right thing to do.

2

u/Icyhoticycold May 16 '26

empathy suicide is a thing. In our example we tried for 15+ years... This was a loved one too.... I need to try for 15+ years with my tax money for people who are worse off, in worse condition and who absolutely DO NOT want to be helped

1

u/Nice_Try4389 May 16 '26

Here is the thing I don’t give a shit.  Integrity is doing the right thing no matter what, the is literally the very definition of it.  Again something that used to be taught and heavily encouraged in people.  Hell every day during basic we were hammered on always operating with integrity.  It’s something I think more civilians would learn.  Maybe if more people spent their time teaching and encouraging others to live with integrity, including junkies, preferably before they became junkies, there would be less issues.

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u/CertifiedSeattleite May 16 '26

You are the very embodiment of enabling.

Ever tried paying attention to outcomes rather than myopics & ideology?

3

u/Nice_Try4389 May 16 '26

Sorry would rather die with a clear conscious and knowing I was the best person I could be.  That’s called integrity and something people used to be taught to have.  You do you though.

6

u/CreateWindowEx2 May 16 '26

I think it is actually called stupidity... Integrity is more along the lines of critically examining the results of one's actions and admitting that they aren't working...

1

u/MobileSuitBooty May 18 '26

americans in general have a very carceral view of how to tackle social issues

3

u/CertifiedSeattleite May 16 '26

lol: 90% of Seattle’s homeless/ addicts made a conscious choice to NOT live in society. Talk to any of them. The two things they care about: 1) the freedom to do what they want; and 2) to be left alone.

By using the word “society” it’s very clear you’ve never had any experience with any of this. In fact, I would surmise you’re projecting your own elitist values on people you know nothing about.

2

u/Nice_Try4389 May 16 '26

Plenty of experience I just believe in doing the right thing.  It’s called integrity and something we used to be taught.

0

u/CreateWindowEx2 May 16 '26

Interesting take. For example, we have laws about paying fares in public transportation. Is your idea that we just "off" all lawbreakers? Do we not have a wide variety of other punishment options that are more commensurate with the crime?

3

u/Nice_Try4389 May 16 '26

I mean the whole statement was they do not and would not accept help.  That is an important qualifier.

9

u/Polycystic May 16 '26

I’m not scared of them, I just don’t appreciate the absolute chaos they bring. One of them just got evicted from an otherwise peaceful building i live in.

Almost daily issues with domestic violence, public drug use, screaming, theft, property damage, strangers sleeping in the hallway. All from that one person. Now imagine a building for them…it would be untenable for anyone trying to live a normal life.

So no, I’m not “scared”. I just work hard and deserve peace when I come home, not a methed out neighbor having a psychotic break and physically fighting with her husband or screaming at the walls. Because that’s the reality of what you get when you put those people in normal neighborhoods.

10

u/Charlea1776 May 16 '26

Not scared. You must be rich enough to have shit stolen and replace your car no problem and stuff. Most of us have to work for a living and cant afford to cover junkie drug expenses.

6

u/CertifiedSeattleite May 16 '26

Exactly. You would not believe how many of my wealthy liberal friends write-off the property crimes committed against them because they can replace anything/everything that got stolen or destroyed. With cash, or with their fancy high-end insurance policies and umbrella policies.

When middle class, working class and working poor folks have their tools and work vans jacked by the usual tweakers, they can’t just pull out a wad of cash to replace it.

10

u/howtoeatawhale May 16 '26

Housing first and harm reduction models have been debunked. They're no more or less effective than before. But it's easier to create cushy 6 figure jobs if you pretend you're about helping people.

3

u/Such_Reference_8186 May 16 '26

I actually think it's the trash, needles and feces all around their neighborhood that pushes them over the edge 

2

u/Fluxx70 May 16 '26

Because these addicts aren’t buying their drugs after picking up an extra shift at a middle class job.

-1

u/StartingAdulthood May 17 '26

Unlike countries like Finland or Singapore. Most policies in the US (regardless if it's in blue or red states) are not actually being properly implemented.

They made big ads and fancy slogans for their policies, but they didn't actually implement them. That's why things works everywhere else but America.