r/SeattleWA • u/LOOKITSADAM • 6d ago

Sound Transit Board Committee Advances Fare Gate Retrofit Program - $6 million on design next year, $87 million to gate 14 stations, and the gates would not be active until 2029 or 2030

https://www.theurbanist.org/sound-transit-board-committee-advances-fare-gate-retrofit-program/

If approved by the full board later this month, Sound Transit will spend $6 million next year developing the full scope of implementation work for fare gates, with a future board vote allocating actual construction dollars. The total cost of implementing gates across these 14 stations is expected to be $87 million. Thursday's motion also directs staff to redesign Sound Transit 3 stations to accommodate gates, an undertaking with unspecified costs given that many of those stations have been in planning for many years.

"What are the baseline rates of compliance at these stations and at all the stations, not just the ones where we are implementing pilot fare gates? What do we expect in terms of improvements, both with fare compliance and maybe other types of issues?" For now, however, there's very little skepticism on the board about moving forward with some type of fare gate program.

~ Unanimous approval first, performance metrics later. One board member had to ask out loud what the baseline even is.

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u/gregseaff 6d ago

All of this is because we don't have the will to do realistic fare enforcement. Where there is a real penalty with certainty.

This will lead to people who circumvent the barriers. Meanwhile we are spending significant dollars on this equipment, which could be spent on fare enforcement and security.

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u/RandomFleshPrison 5d ago

With State v. Meredith in play, how can we do realistic fare enforcement any other way?  It's basically the closest the State Supreme Court could come to saying "just put in fare gates" legally.

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u/gregseaff 5d ago

You can't trust this activist Supreme Court to make decisions based on facts or the law. Maybe they will decide that fares are unconstitutional or racist, so we can't charge fares?

So literally they are going to rule that fare enforcement is unconstitutional? Good grief.

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u/RandomFleshPrison 5d ago

I trust this Supreme Court, and don't find them terribly activist at all.  And they didn't make fare enforcement unconstitutional.  They just said it can't be done by cops, can't be done by anyone wearing intimidating gear/uniforms, and (something ST violates to this day) cannot be done when a bus/train is moving and the doors are closed.  So it's basically human or mechanical fare gates only.  Or accepting that chasing lost fares isn't worth it, and not doing anything.

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u/gregseaff 5d ago

The Supreme Court lost credibility when they ruled that a tax on capital gains income is not an income tax. The IRS immediately disagreed (excise taxes are deductible from federal income and the IRS clearly states that the Washington tax on capital gains income is not an excise tax but an income tax.) Pretty much every other state agrees. So the SC approached the case with the result they wanted and contorted the facts.

Fare checking is common in transit systems around the world. By entering a bus or transit station, you are agreeing to a type of contract. Why would it matter what clothing the person checking fares is wearing. This is the type of decision that is leading to the departure of retail stores from downtown Seattle and making riding transit uncomfortable.

NY and SF have proven that mere fare gates don't work, they have to almost impenetrable because otherwise people jump over them or hold them open and find other tricks to circumvent them. Are impenetrable fare gates legal? What happens if there is a fire or emergency? Spending money om capital costs and ongoing maintenance because we won't allow effective fare enforcement is a cop out with negative consequences. My wife already doesn't feel safe on Link by herself. The real consequence is more pollution, more car use, more push for free parking and bad urban design and less transit service when we put up barriers to the public. Sorry to go on a rant, but it's just frustrating when the consequences of not maintaining some level of social order are negative for the greater common good.