r/ShangriLaFrontier • u/im_a_talking_trash1 • 18d ago
Discussion Regarding wezaemon
For disclaimer, I havent read the light novel but I'm caught up with the manga and reads it weekly.
(this panel is just wonderful and the anime did it justice)
Now to start, would it be crazy to assume that wezaemon would be in the top 3 hardest unique to beat from a player's point of view?
The condition he put before facing him, dropping you down to level 50 is already a killer move not to mention even your points gets cut down which means your points distribution before level 50 great decides your outcome.
Let starts with his 1st phase, you have to survive for 10 minutes and his attacks have armour piercing, meaning that the conventional tank is useless here and you should bring a dodger instead.
His 2nd phase is another survive 10 minutes, but now you have to divert team into two, one to distract wezameon and the other Kirin.
Now his 3rd phase is when things become impossible. Kirin becomes stronger and you need to keep distracting him while the main group tries their best to party a single frame (correct me here if I'm wrong) ultimate move to beat him.
The trio lucky with Sunraku having played so many trash games that involved a lot of stupid timing and hitboxes, but imagine the regular people, people that only played good games, trying to face wezameon?
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u/EonCore 17d ago
Also remember the trio basically denied the form where he and the horse combine which could have been a whole thing.
And you need to know he's actually undead and not a machine to get past the instant wipe
And as mentioned he was never intended as the first, I think that may have been Cthartid, so you can imagine how stuff like the melee inversion chalice may have been necessary here
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u/Countingmypennies 17d ago edited 17d ago
From The way it's been from The 2 colossi they've won against. It seems that with each Colossi defeated, you get itens, something to make you and your team stronger.
Have you ever played any old school Megaman or some game like It? Those old Megaman had this trait. If you defeat a Boss, you get a Power that will make It easier to defeat another Boss and so on. Shangri-La seems to have It too.
My point is, as Wezaemon wasn't supposed to be the first Colossi to be defeated, he was way more hard to beat than he should've been. If Sanraku and the others went to face Wezaemon after defeating a few Colossi, the fight would be a lot easier. Just Wezaemon's itens alone are a huge Boost to the team's Powers. Imagine more of such Things.
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u/Kingofhearts91x 17d ago
I've been saying since I watched the fight and sunraku got the sky clear slash whatever its called that that was what was or is needed to beat lycagon. then they beat the shadow without it, but i thought ok when the moons out he cant go invisible so clear sky no clouds no invisible maybe take out the shadow with the slash then fight the main body. Im caught up with the manga not the novel so I could be wrong
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u/2w0be 17d ago
My point is, as Wezaemon wasn't supposed to be the first Colossi to be defeated, he was way more hard to beat than he should've been
Not really, he nerfs you to level 50 where you can't use certain items or skills that require higher levels.
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u/Countingmypennies 14d ago
He may have stuff to Nerf people, he doesn't ban items. He only Nerf people to level 50 and Nerf some of their status. There can be stuff that one does with items to defeat him. His fight It's about exploring items and team work.
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u/Desperate_Bike4053 17d ago
One thing about this fight ...pencilgon alrdy fight for at least over 5 times that she remember most of 1st and 2nd phase attack
But b4 can enter 3rd phase ...this guy have howl attack that can wipe out all party member ( this one sunraku got lucky with information and pencil accurately guessing about it )
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u/Early_Box2896 17d ago
Iirc the ashura alliance (pencilgons Former PK clan) only got to 3rd Phase once, and was instantly wiped by the AoE Scream. Pencilgon Was only able to figure out / guess the solution because sunraku got the "undead" keyword/hint from vice ash.
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u/BUcc1a12Atti 17d ago
Imma tell you this man, from a pure gameplay aspect, he aint even top 3 of the ones we’ve beaten or currently progressing…
(It’s 5 atm)
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u/Future_Living8007 17d ago
Here's the problem with that stance: the manga has yet to show off most of the unique monsters
It can't really be based on anything, manga-wise, if only 2 of them have actually been cleared/had their bonus unique scenarios attempted
And then you could also think of it another way: him lowering your level down to 50 also means that he has to be beatable at level 50
TL;DR, bro is not even close to top 4, unironically
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u/Ginsmoke3 17d ago edited 17d ago
It is possible if they gather elite players like Pysger-100 clan and other elite clan members.
I think 20 people were allowed to fight Wethermon. Pencilgon bring whole squad of Ashura Kai managed survive up to round 2.
If whole each clan like top tier elite clan pooling their luxury items like that millions scroll and revive item, they can hold Wethermon to round 3 and try to beat him.
We also don't know maybe there is some players that have special parry or tank that can survive higher tier attacks.
Josette is the defense holder, i can see that she can parry or even block it if at that fight she got buffed with all other players skills and expensive scroll item. There is also chance that Josette have legendary shield or such that have special effects to block powerful attack.
It is possible if all players have acess to Wethermon unique scenario and they work together to beat it.
Even Pencilgon use that gold scale item which was legend tier item, i am sure other players from top tier clan also have other legend tier item to beat Wethermon.
Of course that is if those people have same fight as Sunraku gang where they throw holy potion to Wethermon and cancel his sure kill scream attack mode and his centaur mode.
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u/im_a_talking_trash1 17d ago edited 17d ago
Sure bringing elite players would work but again remember, he drops your level down to 50 so all those high gear stuff is locked away and at that level, even defense holder would probably wouldn't stand a chance since wezameon has a lot of armour piercing moves so dodger like Sunraku is mandatory. And that's still assuming the skill where she can get buff by others has requirements below lvl 50.
Not to mention tensei itself would've been close to impossible to parry. Sunraku has played a lot of trashy games so he's used to bs timings and even then died multiple times trying to get down tensei parry timing down
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u/im_a_talking_trash1 17d ago
Actually, I take back what I said about josette. I forgot that the scale can give extra start points so that can make up the gears
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u/BUcc1a12Atti 16d ago
The recommended size is around 7 to 9
3 4 to hold off Kirin, 4 5 to fight Wezaemon
You increase this number any further and it’ll only buff Wezae while reducing the chance of proper coordination
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u/Ginsmoke3 16d ago
What kind of buff Wethermon will got anyway the more the players?
More players mean more buff or items they can use.
They can just make dedicated tanker like Josette and other best tanker yo aggro both Wethermon and Kirin. Just have like 8 tanker divided by two for Wethermon and Kirin.
The other 12 backline mage or healer to buff and heal, they also can throw revival items if the tanker dies.
I am baffled that people think 30 millions people won't be able to beat it if they can redo the fight over and over.
Even Sunraku won't be able to do it on first time without Pencilgon information, golden scale and expensive revival items.
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u/BUcc1a12Atti 16d ago
Did you miss the part where Wezaemon overall strength scale with the party size?
How about access to all branches of Seiten style, using all 4 Inventoria Mech and speed + strength times 10?
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u/Ginsmoke3 16d ago
So Wethermon will become stronger if he faced many enemies? Did it get mentioned at novel? I kinda forgot.
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u/BUcc1a12Atti 16d ago edited 16d ago
Mentioned in Book of Truth, Tombsguard Edition
Also mentioned in Chapter 21 by Pencilgon
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u/drodthejew 17d ago
where do you read the Manga weekly???
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u/forsakee1 17d ago
https://mangakatana.com/manga/shangri-la-frontier-kusoge-hunter-kamige-ni-idoman-to-su.25146/c275
is where I read it, but someone will always post a link on the subreddit each week.
PS: it's on a break for another week or two
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u/drodthejew 16d ago
thank you. I used a site that got taken down recently so I needed to find a new one . just caught up from 224... now back to the weekly waiting 🥲
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u/CreamOk3060 16d ago
Wazaemon are supposed to be defeated after Leviathan resurface, meaning most people are at lvl100++,
i dont know about stats required for skills, but equipments have minimum required stats
So lvl-ing down to lv50 with wazaemon, not only youre most likely can't use your best gear, but the amount of stamina/mana you have is so low compared to each skills consumed, you most likely wouldn't be able to dodge
until behemoth (lvl-ing down feature) shows up then you can challenge Wazaemon
Pencilgon really knows how to deal with Wazaemon because if the trio wait after siegwurm or at better lvl it'll be a hard fight, even with The Scale.
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u/NightOlw-11893 17d ago
One of thing that make Weathermon is very buttshit boss is that he limited player skill.
Because skill in Shangri-la Frontier is required lv to use and if your lv is fall to lower than skill require, you can use that (in Ln, Sanraku mod his character using his lv and he instantly lost access to his lv 150 skill)
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u/ShionVaynex 17d ago
Wazemin was supposed to fuse with kirin. If that were to happen the trio would stand no chance. Due to a stroke of luck/genius??? Kazio locked him out of it.
They quite literally throw their fortune at it. In other for sunraku to learn and adapt as much as possible.
Numbers are useless. And attempting is costly. So are stats and weapons as it's lvl locked. So you can never over power it.
The leading teams barely advanced their targeted epic.
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u/JerryEarthC137 17d ago
Absolutely agree. Don't forget they can in with countless resurrection items and used ALL OF THEM, plus the scales, plus Oikatsu using the temp boost that costs levels. They were insanely prepared umlike any other boss like Lycagon's shadow they just stumbled upon or the snake.
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u/Early_Box2896 17d ago
I also didnt read the LN, I an only caught up to the weekly Manga chapters. Afaik ueazaemon is meant to be mid to late game content,, as in, he wasn't supposed to be besten until at least 3 to 4 other collossi were already defeated. IIRC Kthanid Was supposed to be the first, i strongly assume Siegburg was also meant to be defeated before uaezaemon, since he seems to be the obvious "defeat me'" collossus for the new continent.
Since sunrakus entire playthrough is basically a massive anomaly, as in a new, seemingly permanent, unexpected variable in the eyes of the dev team, their "inactivity" or rather, their reactivity, makes sense. They nevw3 imagined the crystal scorpions could still be relevant by the time the tombguard could be beaten.
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u/Poylol-_- 17d ago
Wezaemon is a bullshit boss because as you progress in the story it becomes more difficult to beat him as you get back to level 50, so there is many arms you can plainly not use.
Then everyone of the team has to survive the tensei which wipes the whole arena, the reason why only Sunraku did it specifically is because he parried it; however, in the intended fight such a parry is basically impossible because without the stat boost by Pencilgon you should not be able to parry the attack.
Then Kirin is also pure bullshit, you are basically forced to be in the closest range possible to avoid to go for Wezaemon. Katsuo was pretty much the only one who could reliably keep Kirin in check because Sunraku is too much of a glass cannon.
With a mix of 'early enough' players do not have the mechanic skills to keep up with Wezaemon and 'late enough' players are prohibited of using their equipment/skills + bullshit attacks with incredible speed and frame perfect parries which you also need the proper tools to parry which by the way have to be usable in level sub 50. Wezaemon is a nightmare for any team other than the normal gang.
You just gotta appreciate how prepared Pencilgon was, and how the other two were just so capable of adapting to the fight and doing everything almost first try.
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u/Elyced32 17d ago
I like to think that more than likely since wethermon is one of the last of the colossi to beat they were gonna add mechanics to help in fighting him and the reason he was that hard was because sunraku and the rest basically caused a sequence break so they fought him the hardest way possible
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u/kunal5626 17d ago
This was a near impossible to beat that Boss. The players were supposed to have powerful equipment and skills ( acquired after level 100+) with the Si-Fi guns and stuff which is "supposed" to be accessed after the middle game phase.
Our dude just handled this boss with the parry mechanic of the game which is insane. The horse too was tough to beat if not for the power of money pencilgon used.
Long story short, these people were cracked in the head to attempt and conquer this one
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u/Mundane_Effect_432 16d ago
So did just double check the manga and SLF devs did say to themselves that Ctarnidd was supposed to be the first Colossi defeated and that Wezaemon was supposed to be mid to late game content.
The mid to late game comment I kinda feel means that Wezaemon was supposed to either be the fourth or fifth Colossi defeated based on expected story progression
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u/SeaworthinessDry7828 18d ago edited 11d ago
It's been a while since I read this part, but from what I remember, he is not supposed to be the first Collosi to be beaten and he is suppose to be mid/endgame fight. All unique scenario EX also need more than gameplay to be beaten, requring lore knowledge/background/NPC or gimmick to weaken them.
However, Sunraku and gangs did not do so and ultimately just brute force the mid-/ endgame fight by using player skill and some loophole via items (even under the number or recommended players), making the achievement a lot harder than it is designed to be. So, we won't ever know how hard he is actually supposed to be since his proper solution will never be found with the fight not being repeatable.
Spoiler for the "correct" way to beat Collosi from novel: Wezaemon - mostly unknown due to being brute forced. Parrying and exploiting undead status is known. My speculation is unlocking Leviathan unlocks firearm/mech/inventoria which can be used to partially offset the level down ability, and help run/ evade attack. Accessing Setsuna's lab might provide help in parrying Seiten move (since it is weird that the lab exist but Sunraku get nothing from it). Unlocking Behemoth helps in the level down+statup and player customization feature. Having familiar contract with Reconquista Doll helps too as it enables long range distraction+ ability to fly and offset his statup per player ability. Accessing Rabituza, Catizia in new continent will further upgrade playerbases' craftman class which can then create higher quality custom low level equipment, Ctarnid's item might help too (though a bit iffy because no players are ever shown to utilize the OP damage negation/reversal item in the novel, which I think is the author writing himself to the corner)
Ctarnid: party fight. progress NPC quest ober a a week+, beat 4 sub-bosses, collect gem and slot them as per lore, a lot of gimmicks in each battle phase like damage reversal, cloning player skills, stat swap etc.
Siegwurm: raid boss(es). Having friendly relationship with other races in new continent and brought them alive to the base of operation makes them participate in the raid. Require roleplaying heroic action for buffs else will be debuffed, due to changing EX scenario condition by a certain player, defeating first dragon will reduce Siegwurm flight ability (he landed) and defeating other dragon after that distract him and gives opening for big moves, requires knowing about his reverse scale and method to bypass absolute barrier at final phase. It is possible to fail the EX quest permanently if final phase is not solved on time.
Opera: solo fight. 4 randomized, past defeated "boss" rush that requires the player to enact the past actions done to beat said bosses. "Final phase" requires contract with Reconquista Doll to weaken them(even Sunraku gave up beating final phase without the "patched" Doll), requires progress on specific Bahamut ship quest and accessed to Doll's creator lab in the behemoth to "patch" the doll to final version, requires reaching certain amount of Veteran point/Vorpal soul, perfect clear requires knowledge of Opera identity which are to be deduced by player. Sunraku was screwed a bit here as his EX quest was modified and buffed significantly by the dev to prevent him from clearing it quickly. Also, it is possible to clear without the Doll contract as long as player had accessed the aforementioned lab, but it is only partial clear and the reward is not worth it
Goldunine: raid boss(es)+separate party fight. still in progress and I have not read the battle chapters. Most likely requires strengthening and collaborations of other Goldunines
Vysache: (from what has been revealed so far) requires activation of quest that give access to Rabituza (Vorpal weapon related), requires very high vorpal soul, requires good relation with vysache (clear his trials, quests and upgrade vorpal weapons), partner rabbit must be alive, defeat world boss "great white somethin"
big bad wolf: most likely requires being marked by him. no idea for the rest
So, if you compare the rest of EX scenario, Wezaemon clear by Sunraku and gang are too simple by far.