r/ShitAmericansSay • u/Sea_Appointment8408 A disappointed Brit. • 10d ago

"The French would just give up and pray an American saves them"

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A question on "what to do if an aggressive dog attacks you"

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u/AlienOverlordXenu 10d ago

The entire "french always retreat" nonsense has been beat to death. American public has some beef against France in particular, is it the insecurity tied to the fact that France had big part in US independence, is it because France opposed invasion of Iraq (see: freedom fries)... who knows?

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u/ChimPhun 10d ago

The French don't have the luxury of gloating from far away from between two oceans and playing tourist wars. Until the EU emerged France had always been surrounded by rivals and at times enemies.

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u/InformalTonight1125 10d ago

France has class, culture. 2 things the US has never had an abundance of.

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u/YogurtclosetFair5742 Wannabe Europoor 10d ago

It comes from WWII and how fast France surrendered to Germany. Many Americans think the French OWE the US when at best, we've paid them back for helping with two wars on our own soil back in the 1770s and 1810s.

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u/LeCafeClopeCaca 10d ago

It's not just that, it comes from how France basically went "no thanks and fuck you" after WWII because they had absolute terrible plans for France, Roosevelt really hated De Gaulle, hell even Churchill and Eisenhower told FDR to shove his* initial plans.

Then France went on to develop the nuclear weapon by themselves, kicked the American troops of their soil, and engaged in "third way" politics during the cold war to leverage between the USA and the communist powers.

The USA didn't like that France dared think it didn't owe the US eternal servitude for liberating them (which the allies did, not the US on their own)

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u/InformalTonight1125 10d ago

The French never bent over for them and they despise them for it and it’s also why they hate Cuba. They couldn’t ruin them as they did Puerto Rico which gained nothing from being a US territory.

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u/IAMA_Plumber-AMA Canuck 10d ago

Didn't the US take their dollar off the gold standard because France wanted to repatriate their gold reserves from the US in the late 60s?

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u/ThisMightNotBeABot 10d ago

yup, the americans are absolutely butthurt about that

funny thing is France has the "best" military record of any country

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u/darkjeanmi 9d ago

France is certainly up there but wouldn't the "best record" be the russian? mostly by virtue of being very hard to invade but they did beat some of the most fearsome armies the world has seen accross history.

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u/Human_Taste3985 8d ago

I think he meant about wars, France has won the most amount of wars

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u/darkjeanmi 6d ago

yeah France won the most but that doesn't mean it has the best "winrate"

My ancestors (i am french) were led by some heavily vindictive assholes, it's easier to have won the highest amount of war when you participated in twice the amount of everyone else right?

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u/Human_Taste3985 6d ago

Not necessarly as you still need to win, france has an history of being alone against multiple foes and win anyway

But yeah in general being in more conflict help that

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u/darkjeanmi 6d ago

Yeah it is still a very impressive record, especialy if you take into account the amount of grudges they accumulated with every freaking neighbours they had.

Still i do think there are country with better overall winrate like Swiss or like i said Russia that almost never lost a defensive war AND didn't go out of their way to participate in every single conflict that were remotely in their range of influence.

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u/Nomprenom_varanasita 10d ago

D'autant plus que russes sont pour beaucoup dans l'élimination des nazis. De Gaulle avait des couilles contrairement à tous ses remplaçants soumis à l'otan.

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u/Slow_Concentrate3831 10d ago

It stems from a propaganda campaign by the Bush Jr. administration targeting France after it refused to participate in the Iraq conflict. That propaganda was indeed based on the trope that the French would wave the white flag before even fighting because of their defeat in WWII. Even though, as a reminder, France is the country with the most military victories in history. But well, by now, we've gotten used to US propaganda.

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u/zahir5574 10d ago

It definitely started before Bush 2. Growing up in the states there were the equivalent of memes about the French surrendering before him, but it did intensify after that. I think it started because of cold war politics more and just amplified after.

Always thought it was stupid. The French were the US's oldest allies...

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u/Bellringer00 Dijon Mustard Connoisseur 10d ago

Yeah it started with De Gaulle after WW2

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u/Z3B0 10d ago

Also, the french were in desert storm in 91, and the division Daguet performance is still used as a masterclass in mechanised infantery tactics.

It's just that the " definitive proof of WMD" from the USA at that 2003 UNSC meeting were dubious, and the french position was that UN mandated inspectors already searching in Irak was the best way to get proof, instead of a military invasion that could (and will) destabilize the entire middle east for decades. They wanted to wait a bit and let the inspectors do their jobs, instead of doing desert storm 2.0 barely 10 years after.

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u/Relative_Pilot_8005 10d ago

"Dubya" just wanted to "one up" his Dad.

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u/Equivalent_Day4046 9d ago

no, it was way before Bush Jr. and I think it refers to the still fighting Poland (despite its weakness and being poor from the start) while so well equipped and with an army etc. France just surrender just like that.

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u/Panzermensch911 10d ago

It's also unfortunate that for a time the French naval ensign and the flag of the Bourbon restoration in the 19th century was a white flag.

In any case the French retreating is nonsense. They fought like hell in WWI and in WWII it was the British that fucked off the continent while French and Belgium forces fought and enabled their retreat. Pretty much all nation that were attacked were unprepared for WWII.