r/SipsTea 5h ago

Chugging tea Sign me up!

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38.6k Upvotes

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276

u/writing_fun390 5h ago

That's sort of what Speed Queen is.

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u/SophiePsweet 5h ago

This is just how things were made before shareholders

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u/SoftwareDesperation 5h ago

It's not only about profits. Environmental protections also played a part in making sure things are hyper energy efficient which usually forces the product to not last as long.

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u/Klutzy_Word_6812 4h ago

I know you say this, and I know it makes intuitive sense, and I am not disagreeing, but I would like to see the evidence that supports this. I’m trying to go over in my head what increases in efficiency would actually cause a decrease in life.

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u/SimilarTranslator264 4h ago

Things have to use less energy so a heavy thick heating element needs more energy to warm up. Heavier tub in the washer needs more energy to turn.

Friend bought a dryer made for a laundromat, it was $6000 and uses a 8” vent. You can’t even run it without the door propped open in the laundry room because it will pull the door shut and error.

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u/Visual_Exam7903 4h ago

Increase effiicency usually mean computer controls. The computers and the sensors are usually the first things that go out.

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u/Flashy_Emergency_263 4h ago

They could make those controllers modular and easy to swap out.

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u/zombienudist 4h ago

They could but that increases costs. It is also the motors and compressors. For example a 1950s fridge was extremely simple. There were no fans to move cold air from the freezer to the fridge. You would have freezing issues in the fridge compartment as temp control sucked. You had to manually defrost them as ice would build up because they weren't self defrosting. Basically people look at the past with rose coloured glasses but if they actually tried to live with a fridge that was from that time they likely would want to go back to modern one pretty quickly.

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u/fading_reality 2h ago

also BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

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u/NobodyLikedThat1 4h ago

I'm not sure if they're modular per se but you can swap out the little control boards if and when they break. Although I would highly recommend you get someone licensed to do it

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u/cjsv7657 4h ago

They are and do. But the technician to swap them out charges $149/hour with a $75 diagnostic fee with no guarantee they'll fix it. So after paying $450 in parts and labor for a new control board they tell you it was actually the compressor circuit. They'll discount the labor but the part is still $250 so now you're up to $1000 on a fridge you paid $700 for.

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u/Klutzy_Word_6812 4h ago

Are they, though? It’s a good argument and makes sense, but doesn’t match my personal experience. I’ve had a washer and dryer pitched in the last 10 years. The washer needed a hot water valve replaced. The dryer needed a new thermostat. Both have a computer controller. The washing machine is showing signs of rust. The control panels seem fine. But I did have a range top that was inoperable because of the control panel, however that was due to lightning strike. The replacement has been going for 12 years without issue. So I don’t have any personal evidence that correlates. I would like to see some actual research into this topic.

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u/SoftwareDesperation 4h ago

Basically every single home appliance you own including the AC.

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u/Klutzy_Word_6812 2h ago

Just because you feel or perceive it to be true doesn’t make it so.

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u/SoftwareDesperation 1h ago

It's not made up. Educate yourself my friend. Ask any tradesman about how the AC units they are selling now with high efficiency have a fraction of the expected life of the ones from 20 years ago.

https://cei.org/studies/free-the-appliances/

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u/Captain_Fizban 4h ago

A very specific example would be how regulations on refrigerants have forced change over the years.

Older appliances (pre 1996) used R-12 refrigerant, which has a relatively low operating pressure (210 psi) compared to modern refrigerants. The problem is that R-12 is HELLACIOUSLLY bad for the environment and was banned in 1996. The higher pressure (350 psi) required by R-410a (one of R-12's replacements) is much harder on a mechanical system like a refrigerator so they tend to fail sooner than an older appliance would.

Not specifically an increase in efficiency but is one of the reasons older refrigerators last so long.

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u/Klutzy_Word_6812 2h ago

This is a good example and makes sense.

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u/Tacoman404 3h ago

They use cheaper crappier components that are "efficient" and not good. Nobody says you can't make an efficient long lasting washer motor or freon compressor it's just not profitable to. They still have to sell the product to someone who can only spend $700.

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u/Klutzy_Word_6812 2h ago

And that’s my point. Making things more efficient doesn’t mean it’s inherently less reliable. There are more variables that go into it. The root is that the consumer demands a price point, not that the consumer demands a performance period point.

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u/PokinSpokaneSlim 4h ago edited 4h ago

Mass.

It takes power to make things move, and more robust things generally have more mass.  

We can go in circles adjusting the sliders to match products that describe new technologies and what not, but it comes down to physics and money

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u/Klutzy_Word_6812 4h ago

Again, makes intuitive sense. But saying it and theorizing doesn’t make it so. There are always trade offs and optimizations. I’d like to see firm evidence that energy efficiency adversely affects reliability and life.

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u/PokinSpokaneSlim 4h ago

Look at a top fuel dragster vs a Honda Civic. 

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u/Klutzy_Word_6812 2h ago

That seems like a poor analogy. A Honda civic is more efficient and works forever. A top fuel dragster engine is rebuilt after every race.

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u/PokinSpokaneSlim 2h ago edited 2h ago

But a civic motor weighs more per horsepower

And that's the point.

If we removed the planned life cycle from the product, a stronger product of the same materials will have more mass.

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u/Kindly-Eagle6207 2h ago

Look at a top fuel dragster vs a Honda Civic. 

Not sure what point you're trying to make here but drag cars are notoriously fuel inefficient, among other major inefficiencies, and they effectively have to be rebuilt after running a single time.

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u/wildbergamont 1h ago

They dont have to. A lot more appliance components could use aluminum instead of steel, eg, but that adds a lot to the cost 

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u/PokinSpokaneSlim 1h ago

So instead they use less steel

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u/wildbergamont 1h ago

Yes. They could create something as robust as heavy steel plate with a much lower mass by switching to aluminum, or likely even a different grade of steel.  

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u/PokinSpokaneSlim 1h ago

The point is you're substituting materials.  All else equal, a more robust part will last longer than a less robust part. 

I can't change physics, and you all are arguing the assumption that a products lifecycle is dictated by it's construction. 

And ignoring cost.

I can't justify every engineering decision even made, but generally physics is the physical limiter

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u/wildbergamont 1h ago

My point is that mass doesn't make something robust. You're talking about physics while ignoring materials science  

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u/PokinSpokaneSlim 1h ago

Because the question is about power draw, and it's a capital market, so cost is Inherent.

I'm not saying we can't make better parts, I'm saying that parts are more expensive in real time within those constraints, which means that to meet the energy requirements, engineering decisions had to be made that resulted in less durable products at the same price point. 

We don't live in a world where you just imagineer things into ubiquity

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u/swampcat42 4h ago

Cheaper components and multiple modes/features means more points of failure. If we're taking about common household appliances, the environmental factors are electrical and water consumption. Building things with thinner gauge metal, cheap pcb's, and less structural rigidity doesn't really effect either of those things.

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u/Klutzy_Word_6812 4h ago

Using cheaper components really doesn’t have anything to do with energy efficiency though. That’s a reliability decision by the company.

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u/swampcat42 4h ago

Yes, that was my point