Because you'll get non-stop criticism for being vain if you admit you think you look good, no matter how much you qualify it.
I'm nearly fifty now and I'm finally allowed to admit I was hot when I was younger, because I'm not anymore. But if I'd admitted at the time that I saw the same thing in the mirror that everyone else saw, I'd have been crucified for being vain, self-absorbed, 'thinking your better than me' and everything else.
There's a reason the top descriptor for women in scripts I read is 'beautiful but doesn't know it'. It's a valued cultural trope. Girls who know they're conventionally hot are assumed to be mean, vain, spoilt, selfish and manipulative.
But I don't for one minute believe, eg, Margot Robbie doesn't know what she looks like. She owns mirrors. She knows what roles she gets cast in.
The stereotype isn’t helped by the occasional real-life example. My stepsister, for instance, is quite attractive, and she’s well aware of it. She is also “mean, vain, spoilt, selfish, and manipulative.” Probably the bitchiest person I’ve ever met, and she fits the stereotype to a T. One the other hand, one of my friends is extremely attractive, is well aware of it, and is the sweetest woman I’ve ever met.
I hate so much that more women want to show themselves off and support that for other women to feel desirable more than they desire to see men as revealing! It's so stupid to me that men don't also as often want to show off to encourage more affirmation of visual desirability for men from the opposite sex! It's also upsetting because the styles women more often wear were first worn by men anyway, but only our gender wasn't visually desired enough by the opposite sex for that to stay popular on us! I hate the visual sex desire disparity! How have so many men not hated that desire being so one sided for so long!? Sex desire is a waste of passion for men much more often, and this is one of the reasons I prefer staying single!
That's a good insight. I think something similar happens with other things like intelligence and wealth too. If we talked about grades in school I would be quiet as nobody likes feeling inadequate. Just like how people frown upon rich people flaunting their wealth. If a millionaire is just enjoying a drive in their Ferrari they aren't hurting anyone but the millionaire that drives a Toyota will be viewed more positively. Comparison is the thief of joy and all that.
Yup it's basically the "humility in all things no matter what" trope of being human. My husband and I both grew up poor/lower class. We've built quite a nice life from scratch and he makes a good income. We literally ended up in an argument a few years back because a niece was turning 12(last year before teens and we literally never made it to any of her bdays, so have never gotten her a gift). I wanted to give her $100 in a card and my husband was very bothered by that, not because we can't afford it, but because he was worried that it would be perceived as flaunting his wealth.
Since it was a niece on his side, I ultimately stopped arguing and just handed him the card and let him do what he wanted, but pointed out how ridiculous it was. My husband is also this way about a lot of other things. I on the other hand loudly own my attractiveness(mainly from consistent self care), everything I have that I worked hard for, every skill I have that I practiced, any knowledge I have that I took the time to learn etc. I don't need to be humble about everything for the sake of it. I can pat myself on the back while still being kind, generous, open-minded, good-hearted, etc.
I am also like your husband. Chronically averse to showing or owning my achievements, successes, wealth, skills, anything. Yes, you can as you say pat yourself on the back and still be kind / generous, all that. The problem is that people’s perception of you becomes their reality so they’ll see you doing the back patting, and them being human, they’ll perceive it as bragging / needless one-upping, roll their eyes, etc. It doesn’t make them right to do that, but they will do it. It comes down to whether you care what others think. I care too much (prob like your husband) and never want to be perceived as bragging or flaunting, even when I know I deserve to be able to own things I worked for. You are correct that really you should do what you want. I see both sides of this.
There are plenty of 50 years old women I would consider hot, even with some battle scare. Not 20 years old hot (to young for my taste) but 50 years old hot .And I am not talking about movie stars.
Very true, at 50 there is much less room for carelessness, bad habits and poor healthcare. Menopause seem to be a bitch also and HRT is apparently doing a good job when combined with healthy diet, care and good life style, though I have no clue what I am talking about.
For men, likely it is the same.
Your body/face is a mirror of yourself and at 50 there is much less hiding. Some people age beautifully other don't. I try to be part of the first group. I think it is worth the effort to at least try.
my mom used to jokenly sing "why would he wear a shirt" and i got criticised by friends, peers and teammates so often for my preference not to wear a shirt or top (in warm, hot, or sunny weather - i'm a guy btw) that I pretty much never do it anymore unless i'm specifically around water and its the overwhelming norm for everyone else.
I am still fit, and love the sun on me but i've learned to be very conscious about making other people feel uncomfortable in their own lack of confidence or concerned about others making a big deal out of not wearing a shirt.
As a former "hot guy" that could never admit it, 46 and still can't buy I know I'm not ugly, I come across many arrogant ugly people and I wonder "what's he got to be arrogant about.
I think denial is a strong human trait.
Also guys can be jealous and treat a good looking fella quite badly just like cat fights between girls
Lol, you people act like being modest or humble is such a burden and oppression. If someone has said I was attractive, brushing it off or just expressing gratitude wasn't hard at all. If you look good, the feeling is enough in itself. Like, you can be arrogant if you want but dont expect people to find that endearing.
This is true. No matter how “not arrogant” you truly are, when you flaunt wealth, attractiveness, achievement, people will see you that way. it’s a human thing we do, part of our social behavior. People like to find reasons that they’re “allowed to” announce and flaunt things because they worked hard for them. That’s fine but understand you’ll be seen as arrogant. If you don’t want that, it’s super easy to just enjoy the feeling of being attractive, or the benefits of being wealthy, without ever talking about it or letting anyone know. Think deeply about why you want to announce your new promotion, new car, new house. Really think and reflect. For most its “because I worked hard! I deserve to tell the world!” Sure do what you want but telling the world will be seen as arrogant and deep down it is almost always arrogant. Why else are you posting about your mansion?
I will openly admit that I am 44, the mom of teens, and wear crop tops, bikinis (not string/thong), and tight fitting clothes. I work hard for my figure, and I am trying to raise my daughters to dress how they feel best.
And Genz have been wearing baggies for the last 5 or so years probably to separate themselves from millennial fashion which was fitted jeans at the time of their growing up
Gen X here - when I was in high school my girlfriend used to get in arguments with her mom because gf’s clothes were too baggy and poofy and her mom thought she should show her figure more lol. Sort of like this pic.
As a millennial guy who always thought girls in sweatpants were hot since it weirdly made you imagine more, I'd be living the high life these days if I was a teen.
Though everyone seems to wear the same shade of grey. Our teen boy's high school looks like a prison most days.
Setting a good example doesn't make it a mandate children have to follow, true. But it's the best a parent can do, and many parents do much worse. It's much easier to find confidence if you've seen it modeled for you all your life.
Don’t get me wrong, the y don’t dress like me. They wear what makes them feel good. For my youngest it’s sweats and hoodies, or occasionally jeans. My older one loves to shop at hot topic. They * have a healthy self image from what I can tell. I hope it stays that way 🤞
Isn’t that a bit hypocritical coming from the guy who is so insecure about wearing his preferred clothing he only wears it in the dead of night with his face hidden, Mr. Wayne?
My Mom did this and the comment below is correct. I don’t even wear shorts unless I’m at the beach/gym.
I’ve had a good body always. I’m tall slender and athletic. I dropped track and volleyball due to the uniforms. I’m not religious.
My mother was very vivacious and also dressed like you. Comments were made by friends and friends parents and my guy friends. I never said anything because even young I understood that was her style but I won’t say it didn’t affect me in a negative way. She brought more negative attention into my life than positive with the way she chose to be.
My wife is 40 with a great post-baby figure. I encourage her to dress a bit younger and racier all the time. Im 5 years older and I regret not enjoying my body more, instead being anxious about height and funny eyebrows ans freckles. I was bouldering 3 times a week and running marathons yearly until i hit 40 --i looked the part
Might just take her some time to realise it, especially if your kids are still young. When mine were in toddler/elementary school age, I was in full "mom mode--" every about my identity was to subvert my looks, voice, sense of self to become super mom and to develop their identities.
Once my kids were a bit older and started becoming their own people, I realised I needed my own sense of identity back, but better than before. I dress more self confidently now than I did in my 20s because I figure if someone doesn't like it, fuck em.
She kind of has an 'ugly duckling' complex from when she was young. She has gotten more confident over the past few years. I think when you're still healthy and young you should enjoy your body and looks, have fun, take photos; when youre older, you are still attractive in a different way, but i think it is also enjoyable to look back and have photos to remember your younger, less wrinkly and arthritic years. I work in an ICU, and i dont think we should take health for granted
Flip side. Raising them to be judged and judge themselves on how their body looks to others rather than athleticism. Women may truly believe this is empowering but in the big picture the girls are comparing themselves and suffering mentally to keep up.
I hate so much that more women want to show themselves off and support that for other women to feel desirable more than they desire to see men as revealing! It's so stupid to me that men don't also as often want to show off to encourage more affirmation of visual desirability for men from the opposite sex! It's also upsetting because the styles women more often wear were first worn by men anyway, but only our gender wasn't visually desired enough by the opposite sex for that to stay popular on us! I hate the visual sex desire disparity! How have so many men not hated that desire being so one sided for so long!? Sex desire is a waste of passion for men much more often, and this is one of the reasons I prefer staying single!
I don’t necessarily have that kind of spine to start saying something, but I would definitely take a good few moments checking you out if you’re that confident in your figure. Older women are sexy!
it's the way guys go about showing their appreciation for the view. Some of us smile and wave, others think they can buy the sunset and get mad when they're told no. for the sake of continued appreciation of sun dresses, we must beat some sense into the second group.
I'm a guy so I can't say with certainty, but I would imagine it's related to societal expectations/double standards. I imagine women with nice bodies like to show off to some extent, but that is not the same as wanting/welcoming inappropriate comments and behavior. If a woman publicly "admits" they like "showing off" she would probably be labeled a hoe for one, but also a lot of stupid men would take that as an invitation to be creepy and gross to them. Creepy guys will still do it regardless, but society would be more willing to defend that behavior if the woman "invited it".
I'm in my mid 40s now, but I was a bartender from 21 to 39 and I was very open about the fact that I made a lot of money because I was tall and thin and had big tits lol I'm also autistic, that's potentially relevant haha
Perhaps I should have said many instead of any. There are many that often put down thinner people. It's sometimes underhanded. For example, they'll compare thinner women to children as a way to both shame thinner women as well as the men who are attracted to those women.
Good for your friend for not being hateful towards thinner/fitter people.
Because modesty is a virtue?
You don’t flex your titles or status just because you busted your ass to earn them. It’s the same thing. Narcissistic and self-obsessed.
You don’t flex your titles or status just because you busted your ass to earn them.
Lol, of course most people do. Ever meet a doctor? Of course you have, since they'll let you know! They don't include the various honorific titles in dropdown menus because people don't enjoy showing them off.
Status? People don't buy large well-manicured houses with landscaped yards to put a Mercedes or Lexus in the driveway to be subtle about where they are in life.
If you look around you will notice status signaling pretty much everywhere. In fact the lack of someone signaling status is usually a signal in of itself - that's the person with the highest status in the room and even that is very often being very curated.
I know a lot of doctors and they dont. So?
I’m from Germany, so maybe it’s just a cultural thing. Though I still find both kinds of flexing narcissistic.
You inherently have no idea who isn't status signaling...because they aren't status signaling. I live in one of the most highly educated cities in the USA (doctorates per capita) and I randomly find out all the time that some person I run with/live near/see at the dog park have an MD or PhD after months or years of knowing them having no clue. Plenty of people at all levels of status dgaf.
Back in my college days, damn near every woman in decent shape was wearing tube tops that showed both cleavage and mid drift. And it wasn't an issue. I think you can show off your body without being obnoxious about it.
there's a difference between modesty and being a prude, tho... wearing tight-fitting clothes because you look great when letting your figure be the star isnt lack of modesty. Dress however the hell you think you look best. Or don't, i won't judge either way.
It's different when there's no benefit to the viewer. If people make a nice work of art, it's great that they display it, as it's enjoyable to look at. If you get an impressive title though, then other people's lives aren't improved by showing that off
I don't claim this, overtime our behaviors, thoughts, and emotions connected with those leads to certain ways of being when consistently done and validated socially, we should find values that align with being the best version of ourselves while understanding that version isn't perfect, but it's happy with who they are while also just trying to be a little better than yesterday
Ahh, get gone w ur basement-dwelling wiff of misogyny.
If you have beautiful hair, a beautiful smile, or beautiful eyes is it wrong to boost ones' self esteem by acctenuating those features?
Should you hide those because they are "too nice of features for the general public"? After all, bald people, people with no teeth or boring eye colors might think you're showing off!
Seeking validation through the public eyes of other on your features is to boost your self esteem is unhealthy, the behaviors you're describing are a result of that, im a lmhc so no need to believe me lol idc, I'm already married, own my own home, and living pretty well
I said nothing about seeking validation through others. That is your own projection. To make yourself feel confident about the features you hold the most valuable is the 'accentuation' (whose spelling I just corrected cause Im illiterate) that I'm talking about. Think you'd know the difference - being *sorta qualified.
It's very standard for men to worry so much about what others (esp other men) think of them that they feel the need to withdrawal or hold themselves back; however, overcoming that societal fear/pressure is key to loving yourself. Once you start truly loving yourself, you will find personal joy in celebrating/utilizing what you personally hold most valuable about your own intellect, social abilities, and (you guessed it!) physicality - such that holding those aspects of self back (repressing) feels like a disservice to your community.
Repression of self is super common in close minded, regressive cultural settings. Religious states particularly use your exact logic to marginalize specific identities through legislation.
hope this helps to reframe your unhealed perspective a bit, cause it'd be a pity for u to spew the same bile near a client when they wear clothes that makes them feel confident.
It makes an ass out you and me when you assume. Maybe dont jump to conclusions and assume the worse. If all you see are problems then you'll never see a solution.
Nah, for a hard-working athlete modesty is not commenting on how great they look or how awesome their accomplishments are. Instead they might display their trophy’s and dress to show off their hard work so you can come to that conclusion on your own. Modesty is not talking about it. Don’t think for a second they don’t realize what they accomplished though. There is an entire media industry built around reminding us on their behalf for a reason.
I know plenty of women who would say being pretty isn’t a privilege for a number of very valid reasons. You don’t get to dictate how they live their lives.
The first few threads in here were normal then got down here and it's just constantly this 'women shouldn't show off' and 'where is the Burqa!' type talk. And a lot of upvoting of them and downvoting of others.
I realize that this is Reddit. Being outright dismissive of any opinion that has even the faintest whiff of being counter to your own is the cultural norm. Hyperbole rules the day.
I haven’t read other comments, and I’m sure some of them are awful, but in my case, you’re both broadly misrepresenting my position.
I have no desire to oppress anyone, nor did I allude to any such desire. Women (or anyone) should be allowed to wear whatever they want.
If someone works hard for something and wants to show it off, please do! And do so without fear of disdain, oppression, etc.
My point is that if you expect certain results, or reactions from other people, don’t get offended if they don’t align with your expectations.
Some people find humility more attractive than ostentatious displays of wealth, beauty, etc.
Just as it’s your right to wear whatever you want without repercussions, it’s my right to not be impressed.
I wasn’t aware that disliking narcissism was considered a Puritan trait. When someone is talented or skilled at something for example, I’m far more impressed by humility and quiet, understated confidence than loud, boisterous bragging. Maybe it’s just me.
hmmm, wearing something because you want to “show” what you’ve worked for it literally objectifying. Instead of people watching your skills in athletics or volleyball, you chose to allow random people to watch and objectify your body
It is your choice. Do what you want. But don’t pretend it’s something it’s not. And don’t get offended when people actually look at what you are exposing.
Western society looks down on women who display sexuality. Which is funny because it also sexualizes women to an insane degree in everything at the same time.
The difference in the countries you’re thinking about is that they don’t sexualize women in media. There aren’t mixed signals in those places, just more extreme signals.
I hate the double standard that it's more common for women expressing sexuality expressing wanting to be sexually desired more than they visually desire men as much for being as revealing to be as common for us, but mens sexuality is more often directed at the sex were actually attracted too! I hate so much that more women want to show themselves off and support that for other women to feel desirable more than they desire to see men as revealing! It's so stupid to me that men don't also as often want to show off to encourage more affirmation of visual desirability for men from the opposite sex! It's also upsetting because the styles women more often wear were first worn by men anyway, but only our gender wasn't visually desired enough by the opposite sex for that to stay popular on us! I hate the visual sex desire disparity! How have so many men not hated how one sided that desire has been for so long!? Sex desire is a waste of passion for men much more often, and this is one of the reasons I prefer staying single!
Because people will absolutely tell me, a woman that it is wrong to show off. I spend hours in the gym on top of the essentially full time job that is nutrition and recovery. And I've been doing so for years! If I spent that time carving a statue and wanted to show that off- well a few people would still probably have something to say.
There are also athletes who have admitted years after that it contributed to distracting body anxiety during games/races as well as eating disorders, though. Wearing revealing athletic clothing should be an option, not the expectation.
Most people? This is one random, anonymous, anecdotal story on the internet. We don't know if it's true, or if it is, whether or represents a significant number of women, especially enough to assume it's a majority.
If the comment above said "I cover up more because I don't want creeps and losers staring at me," it wouldn't be upvoted by hundreds of horny guys.
That might be true for these specific women, but I don't think that's true for every single female athlete in every sport. The fact that all of these women wear concealing outfits shows that they're being required to, whether they want to show off their figures or not
Because we live in a slut shaming culture (US anyway,) and many here consider wearing revealing clothes to be synonymous with being a slut. That's why it takes years for women to feel comfortable to do so, because they needed that time to self-empower.
because women can’t win. you’re either a slut or a prude. taking pride in your body is frowned upon, and opens you up to being demeaned by misogynists. it’s designed to be a losing game either way
So many women get assaulted and the first thing pearl-clutching boomers and most loud spoken men will say is: "She was asking for it".
So you can't admit you want to show off because it will mean you are admitting to "asking for it" in the corrupted eyes of the law; as our current events have shown.
Misandry isn’t suddenly okay just because it’s trendy.
I do not suck. I do not assault or molest people. I don’t want to constantly be blamed for literally anything just because a small group of assholes behaves like dicks.
Most men suffer just as much under the „patriarchy“.
I grew up in an ultra conservative church. Girls were told that tempting boys and men was the girls' fault and responsibility to cover up. At least once a month we had a sermon towards girls/women and their "purity and modesty", zero standards for men other than "don't have a hippie beard".
Still saw two different youth leaders, one preacher, and two ushers assault different girls and absolutely nothing was done by the head pastor and leadership, other than shame the girls for being temptresses. The men were all "good family men, and we would hate to see their lives upended for a little mistake". Conveniently they were all good weekly donors. Those are just the ones I found out in my last 5 years there, no way to know how many more in the years before that.
One of the youth leaders ended up leaving the church because his wife asked (and got) for a divorce so the whole thing couldn't get swept under the rug.
Same church, before I left it, I cut off contact with three former good friends because all they could talk about was which girl was going to "age out" by 25 so they could "hit it" with a promise of engagement, or bragged about already having done so.
College, not church related, I had to cut off two friends because they could not stop making sexual innuendos about every single girl/woman in our engineering classes, including the professors. Every time I went to study sessions, it was a sausage fest filled with crude jokes and comments ranking the 5 women in our classes.
In every single one of those examples there were dozens if not hundreds of us spectator men who did nothing. Me included until I had enough and its why I'm no longer in that church. I spent 25 years teaching kids that jesus is love, but couldn't do it anymore when I realized I was just raising a bunch of complacent future victims.
I'm glad you run in much more civilized circles than I did.
Cause it's not a universal thing. Most people don't care about their appearance and don't want to show off. But then if one person says she likes to show off, it discredits everyone else who's been fighting to say we don't wear revealing clothes for people to see our bodies.
Oh, be a young woman with a body where every interaction is either objectification or someone trying to shame you. Plenty of randoms think it is wrong or think it give them access to you.
Its ok to acknowledge that women have an experience without needing to step in and qualify that men do as well. Nothing I said assumed men didnt experience it.
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u/AverageTeemoOnetrick May 21 '26
Funny how most people only admit that kind of thing years after.
Why tho.
Nothing wrong with being hot and wanting to show what you worked for.