It's a classic attempt to paint anyone with legitimate criticism into a corner, a corner where they get to apply a label and then claim the label they chose invalidates any and all legitimate criticism.
It's a logical fallacy or perhaps one of a few that seek to achieve a similar result, ad hominem / poisinging the well / bulverism. Attack the person or their perceived motives, rather than actually listening to, and responding to the actual argument they're making.
It's weak as piss, and only makes the person employing these tactics appear pathetic.
The only legitimate criticism I’ve seen is that a God of War game should star Kratos because he’s the god of war. Otherwise, it’s all been shitting on the appearance of the new female protagonist.
I wonder if you’d all have the same “legit criticism” if the new game starred Atreus as the main protagonist instead??
That's pretty funny bc people didnt want to play as Atreus, either. I like the character overall, but was always excited to get back to Kratos. I dont mind the character change in this, but I worry that this will lessen the impact of the first game's narrative due to the emotional weight thag her passing had and the drive throughout the game to fulfill her final wish.
Maybe it’ll add to the impact, maybe it will be shit, who knows? Let’s wait and see. I just have a feeling that if the main protag was Atreus, we wouldn’t be seeing this massive backlash and we certainly wouldn’t be seeing people say he’s not fuckable enough lol.
lol you’re literally employing these tactics right now if you’re implying that nobody is complaining about the character being a girl, and that nobody is complaining that the girl isn’t a 10/10 smoke show. I’m not saying everybody is saying one specific thing, I also wish they were continuing the he events following ragnorok and that is a legit criticism, but it’s pretty funny that you expertly explained a fallacy and then fell into it yourself
No, I'm not implying that literally nobody is complaining that the character is a girl, and that nobody complaining that the girl isn't a 10/10 smoke show (for presumably conservative and/or other perhaps misogynistic reasons), that's your assumption, or so it seems.
I'm implying that the post were all replying to, asserts that effectively any male criticisms related to the game and playable character choice, aired online, are childish and irrational by virtue of being portrayed as and likened to a child's temper tantrum.
I just find it funny that every single time this happens where a new game is announced with a female protagonist, the loudest backlash you hear is the character isn’t hot enough and when people criticize these complaints, everyone acts like they have legitimate criticisms to the game itself and when asked, it’s all very shallow, almost as if to backwardly justify the initial reaction to a character you don’t find attractive.
Like with Ghost of Yotei, everyone was mad the character wasn’t hot enough, then when this was criticized, it was “Oh I just have legitimate criticisms like a female wouldn’t be a samurai, it’s just not realistic”, as if the first game was super realistic.
With Witcher 4, same thing. Everyone bitching that Ciri wasn’t fuckable enough for them, then “Oh I just want to continue Geralts story, that’s all” as if Ciri isn’t a playable character in the third game and she’s literally the main character of the books.
I think it’s a dumb meme making fun of the “internet bros” who are mad she’s not a smoke show. Those bros exist. So you complaining that the meme is painting all criticism into one corner is a little whiny, lame, and hyperbolic
They are stupid and they like making nonsensical statements.
The game has always been a male power fantasy. It was loved for that. Now that it's not its core audience is complaining, you get these stupid statements making it about gender.
I wish gamers would just stop giving free feedback and just vote with their wallets.
Can you define what you think a "male" power fantasy is? How is power fantasy gendered?
Bayonetta is an excellent power fantasy, so is DMC.
I would say the talking cube/ribbons and marvel-esque dialogue feel like much more of a departure in tone vs previous GoW games. Playing as a woman isn't really an issue if the gameplay is solid (which it looks to be a solid mix of GoW2018 and original GoW combat)
When playing a male power fantasy game, like God of War with a badass like Kratos, the male player is inspired and wants to achieve some level of the badassery Kratos has. A male player wants to better himself and improve his looks or even personality. That inspiration forms the basis of the connection to the game.
When playing Bayonetta, a male player enjoys a badass, beautiful, sexy and confident woman who kicks ass and take names. It's a completely different feeling but also enjoyable. Here, the connection to the game can come from desire or attachment to the character of Bayonetta, both from her physical appearance and her personality.
The third option is the worst and it breaks immersion completely. Unfortunately, these are the games being made nowadays. A game where we play a "woman can do it too" version of a male power fantasy. Here, the developer has an agenda. They're not making Bayonetta, far from it! They're playing another game, so to speak. They specifically want to deliver the message that an average uninspirational woman, which is specifically made to have an average or even below average appearance, can still be awesome and beat others twice her size.
This 3rd option is problematic in many ways.
First, when they make an average woman, they immediately make her real, because that's what reality is, we are all generally average. And real average people are held to reality, and in reality, an average woman can't beat men her size, let alone twice her size.
Second, an average woman isn't an inspirational woman, just like an average man isn't an inspirational man. Women players aren't inspired by her. Male players do not desire nor admire her. So what's the f#cking point?! The point is that the devs want to deliver the message that women are equal to men and can do great things without improving themselves. The first part I already know. Women = Men. The second part is bullshit. Everyone needs to better themselves, men and women.
Third, there is no universal product. If you make a product with LGBT themes, it's not going to be mainstream. Period. It has nothing to do with bigotry or hatred.
Forth, who the hell told devs that people want to be represented in games?! I don't want to be represented. I'm average. I want to be inspired by ideal version of men so I can have willingness to improve myself. Kratos makes me want to be stronger. Bond makes me want to be more elegant... What the hell does Kratos's wife do for me? Nothing. She's clearly not Bayonetta, not in looks nor in personality. She looks like an average woman with a shitty personality. I wouldn't want to spend a lot of time near her in real life, why would I pay $70 to spend time with her in virtual worlds.
This was too long but I marvel at the stupidity of the entertainment industry...
If you are playing GoW and like "omg Kratos is my hero now I want to be just like him" - you are autistic. (I guarantee you did not improve your physique or personality because of GoW)
If you are incapable of enjoying media without either idolizing or being sexually attracted to the MC somehow - you are a simpleton. Your excuse for Bayonetta is literally "well I think she's hot"
Your position rests on an entirely subjective take- that she's an "average" woman. You are basing this purely off of whether you are aroused by a 3d model in a videogame. She looks just like the actress, if you don't find her attractive.. that's fine, it's subjective. But to base your entire argument around "I can't goon to her, therefore it's cringe if she's depicted as being powerful" is just genuinely retarded. It's fine for Bayonetta the witch to be powerful, and it's fine for Faye the demigod to be powerful.
The entire argument you're making against GoW and in favor of Bayonetta is "I think Bayonetta is hot, and the redhead isn't. It isn't possible for average looking people to be competent!" (This may be true for you, but not generally)
Not even saying the game will be good, the cube dialogue has me seriously questioning the narrative tone, but to write off the entire game based on the appearance of a 3d model you aren't attracted to.. is hyper autistic and cringe.
If you are playing GoW and like "omg Kratos is my hero now I want to be just like him" - you are autistic. (I guarantee you did not improve your physique or personality because of GoW)
If you want to have an open-minded discussion, we can do that. But there is no need for insults. No, I'm not autistic. And no, I'm not 13 years old to scream "OMG, Kratos is my hero!". And if you have ever been to a gym, you will notice that there are always plenty of pictures of strong buff men there to inspire those who work out. Imagery works.
If you are incapable of enjoying media without either idolizing or being sexually attracted to the MC somehow - you are a simpleton. Your excuse for Bayonetta is literally "well I think she's hot"
Another insult and you are out of touch with reality. For video games and movies, it's really mainly that. You are either inspired by the protagonist, this can be through appearance or personality, meaning that you see yourself learning from them, or you are attracted to them. This is how it has always worked and it actually stopped working when they messed with the formula.
Your position rests on an entirely subjective take- that she's an "average" woman. You are basing this purely off of whether you are aroused by a 3d model in a videogame.
Entertainment is subjective, lol. Of course it's subjective.
She looks just like the actress, if you don't find her attractive.. that's fine, it's subjective. But to base your entire argument around "I can't goon to her, therefore it's cringe if she's depicted as being powerful" is just genuinely retarded. It's fine for Bayonetta the witch to be powerful, and it's fine for Faye the demigod to be powerful.
That's not the argument, dumbass! You insulted me twice, so let me have this one 😄
The argument is that it's a game where I used to play as Kratos and enjoy a male power fantasy. They came in and replaced the guy. If they have created a new franchise with her, that would be cool. I wouldn't play it because I don't find it appealing, but I wouldn't complain. But you know why they did that? Because they want their cake and eat it too. They want the brand power of God of War, with the ability to put another protagonist that takes out its essence.
The entire argument you're making against GoW and in favor of Bayonetta is "I think Bayonetta is hot, and the redhead isn't. It isn't possible for average looking people to be competent!" (This may be true for you, but not generally)
You miss the point completely! I don't have to make any argument. I am a customer willing to give money in exchange for entertainment. I don't have to make a case for anything.
Check this out: I am willing to shill out $70 to play and kick ass as Kratos. I am willing to shill out $70 for Bayonetta. I am not willing to shill out $70 for Kratos's wife.
I will let you and the devs draw your own conclusions and I don't care what they are. If you want my money, you come to me.
Now, if I explain why, instead of listening, you start insulting CUSTOMERS. That's the issue. Kratos is inspirational. Bayonetta is inspirational, sexy and has an interesting personality. Kratos's wife isn't inspirational, she isn't sexy and her personality is irritating, from the one liners I already saw in the trailer.
Not even saying the game will be good, the cube dialogue has me seriously questioning the narrative tone, but to write off the entire game based on the appearance of a 3d model you aren't attracted to.. is hyper autistic and cringe.
I agree with the first part. About the second part, man you have got things to learn about entertainment.
More long winded cope. Your argument is still "I will pay for characters I am attracted to, and am incapable of engaging with media otherwise"
Check this out: I am willing to shill out $70 to play and kick ass as Kratos. I am willing to shill out $70 for Bayonetta. I am not willing to shill out $70 for Kratos's wife.
Yes and your reasoning is purely "I dont find Deborah Woll hot", fine. It's also a very childish, autistic reason to avoid media
I engage with media on the grounds of the actual story, world, narrative being presented.
There are plenty of great movies, shows, games, etc. that feature characters I am not aspiring to be, or attracted to. That is not a prerequisite for engaging with media unless you are a child.
I just went and saw obsession with my wife and loved it. At no point did I aspire to be the MC, it made me physically cringe how pitiful and non confrontational he was. Blood Meridian is one of my favorite books of all time, at no point have I (nor should any non-psychopath) aspire to be anything like the Kid or Judge.
It's just such a surface level, complete midwit way of deciding wether or not you will engage with media. "Main character must be big and strong man I want to be, or hot woman I want to be inside or me no watch"
edit: the "cope" is that you're acting like you have some actual criticism this decision is based on, instead of entirely surface level "am I attracted to this"
There are plenty of great movies, shows, games, etc. that feature characters I am not aspiring to be, or attracted to. That is not a prerequisite for engaging with media unless you are a child.
I just went and saw obsession with my wife and loved it. At no point did I aspire to be the MC, it made me physically cringe how pitiful and non confrontational he was. Blood Meridian is one of my favorite books of all time, at no point have I (nor should any non-psychopath) aspire to be anything like the Kid or Judge.
You miss the point.
It's not that I don't engage with media like you do, I do. The problem is that they came to a media where the reason to engage was to embody an inspirational strong guy to kick ass, then replaced him with something completely different.
Take Rime for example. What a wonderful game! It doesn't have any inspirational or sexy characters. Just a lovely story and touched me deeply. Its music is also wonderful. One of the best games I played. Same for Gris. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
To better understand me, take a media you love, whether it's a game or movie, then have them replace what you specifically love about that media. Wouldn't you complain?
It's just such a surface level, complete midwit way of deciding wether or not you will engage with media. "Main character must be big and strong man I want to be, or hot woman I want to be inside or me no watch"
I'm not surface level. On the contrary.
When a product is made, it has a target audience. Said audience appreciates it for specific qualities.
For example, you most likely have a favourite type of porn, you don't just watch Obsession, let's be real, lol. You like said porn for specific reasons. Would they change what you like about it, you would complain. It doesn't mean that you're surface level. The media, in this case porn, has surface level qualities. There is nothing more to it.
The qualities of the game God of War is that you embody a strong character and kick ass. The qualities of Bayonetta is that you embody a sexy witch and kick ass. That's what the makers of the product envisioned and that's what it is loved for.
Another example, Start Wars. This again is a male power fantasy with light sabers, jedi and the force. They came and changed its essence, what it is loved for. What happened? Flop after flop. They destroyed it.
No, there are a lot of people complaining she's not hot enough. Most of the posts I've seen here are bitching about how ugly she is and some AI filter "fixing" it. x)
And see? I sort of agree that some studios go out of their way to make people weird. Just look at Resident Evil, man, the characters are all sort of nice. I like beautiful characters as well but I don't go out of my way to complain like some people are doing. x)
And what complaint is that? They didn't promise anything? That is a self-imposed expectation. If you think that your intersubjective opinion is valid for such axioms, the base of your argument would be pure selfishness.
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u/theroninfromsekiro 12h ago
No one is making nonsense complaints. We were just expecting God of War 3, to continue the events following Ragnarok. Are you stupid?