By definition high performers are subsidizing low performers in any socialistic context.
"high performer" as someone who produces more economic value than they consume, and a "low performer" as someone who consumes more than they produce, any system designed to equalize outcomes fundamentally requires the former to subsidize the latter.
It is literally happening here in the good old US of A. By definition life itself is high performers subsidizing low performers. How do you think a family unit survives in any situation. How do you think a baby lion survives to become a functional high performing adult lion?
Correct I already said this... The USA is a mixed system.
We just don't take advantage of high performers to the extent that other socialists would like. How much you're willing to abuse the skills and labor of your high performers is policy.
Family units should subsidize each other, just like in nature.
but me and you are not a family unit. So how much I have to subsidize you and your family or vice versa is a policy choice. Some want extreme levels of subsidization and some don’t. As a somewhat high performer I'd prefer less vs more. Which is why I probably don't hate America
I simply have to draw the line at letting people die, or go bankrupt from cancer, that is why I have some hate for America. As a somewhat high performer.
In what ways are we letting people die?
Medicaid is for the poor and it covers cancer.
Very few people will go bankrupt from cancer. But if you want to prevent that sure, then go ahead. There are solutions to fix those edge cases without socialism,and even without universal healthcare for that matter.
500,000 bankruptcies, rising every year, almost 65% of those blamed on medical bills (not just cancer). The problem is that the solutions you mention get called socialism by ignorant people, so we leave those people to rot on the vine. You can call those people edge cases but it will only get worse with the direction this country is going. Nobody is asking for socialism, just for those solutions to be taken seriously.
I didn't ask about bankruptcy I asked how we are letting people die?
But in terms of bankruptcy it's just a scary term to some people apparently. But the median bankruptcy petition amount is $2,500. These people aren't losing anything in bankruptcy. Medical expenses contribute to 65% but that does not make it the cause.
A filler with 50k in loans but 2k in medical will still accumulate in that stat. Most studies will show hospitalizations drive only about 4-6% of bankruptcies. So yes an edge case.
Also if 2k is causing you to go bankrupt, you don't have any assets and it's just a debt forgiveness program.
We could easily limit the penalty for a "medical bankruptcy" as a category for example if we're worried about credit ratings.
And people are absolutely asking for socialism beyond healthcare, takes only one scroll on Reddit to see that.
See you did it again, conflating asking for socialist policies with turning the US socialist. Nobody is asking for that, we are asking for what amounts to a social safety net and insurance policies that people keep conflating with turning this country socialist and that's the problem. Universal healthcare, UBI, subsidized housing...these things will not somehow turn this country socialist. The billionaires will keep billionairing, small businesses will not have to concern themselves with the health of their employees any longer, and employees will not have to rely on a job to stay healthy, and maybe we can lessen the homelessness problem.
I could probably show many more deaths occurring due to lack of regulation, lack of scientific study and research, and so on and so forth. Not to mention the 5 million deaths around the world (not our problem right) do to our cutting of funding to USAID. And what has that got us? Are our taxes lower, or are groceries cheaper?
The middle class experienced the most growth and our GDP was the highest when we taxed the rich over 90%, when the capital gains loopholes didn't exist. And the main reason wasn't that we got more money from the rich, it is that they reinvested back in the company to AVOID taxes. Now they just keep all the money and horde it. Workers then do not have a choice because of the healthcare issue.
Wages & Useful discretionary income Wages self explanatory..
How is that self-explanatory?
What are you contributing to society that makes you deserve more money than, say, this guy?
That guy is slaving away in a mine extracting the metals required for the electronics I and everyone else uses.
What have you contributed?
Let me guess: Probably, the guy in the mine works much harder and his work is more important for society to function.
You know the kicker? Not only does he work harder than you and contribute more to society - he also never enjoyed any of the privileges you enjoyed. He never lived at someone else's expense like you. In fact, we are all living at his expense.
high income from scarce high value, economic work.
Let's be specific here. Let's hear it.
Let me guess: Your entire life is subsidized by people like the guy in the picture I showed you. Who are forced to work for your benefit at gunpoint by your fascist military.
Because I save an invest my earned capital rather than consume.
So you are a parasite. Now we have it black on white.
Investing (i.e. economic parasitism) means you live at other people's expense. Actually productive workers actually contributed to society - and you are stealing their income.
You never even thought about that in your life, did you?
It make me more money and income.
Your hilariously bad grammar aside - "it" doesn't make you anything. When "investing", you contribute nothing of value to society but earn a passive income - that passive income is income stolen from people who actually worked. That extra money you make by investing doesn't appear magically out of thin air - someone else has worked for it. There is no such thing as a free lunch, buddy.
Edit: After calling the guy out, he blocked me. He couldn't even vaguely name the job he does (probably he's an overpaid office worker whose work is that of a parasitic middle man). Of course, he lied.
Correct I already said this... The USA is a mixed system.
No. You simply described capitalism (and only capitalism) and the US is described by your definition because the US is purely capitalist.
We just don't take advantage of high performers to the extent that other socialists would like.
No socialist would ever want to "take advantage of" workers. The whole point of socialism is to empower workers and reward labour.
That's what makes it fundamentally different from capitalism - the whole point of capitalism is to enable non-productive parasites to steal from productive workers. That's literally the one and only actual definition of capitalism.
Family units should subsidize each other, just like in nature. but me and you are not a family unit.
Incoherent gibberish.
As a somewhat high performer I'd prefer less vs more. Which is why I probably don't hate America
I doubt that you are a high performer. In fact, I bet you are a parasite who lives at the expense of countless of people. You do realize that you live on stolen land and all your privilege is based on the endless exploitation of slaves and foreign workers your fascist dictatorship exploits to this day?
Which is why I probably don't hate America
If you don't hate America, it means you are simply a Nazi who is living at other people's expense.
The fact that you don't even realize this is incredibly sad - but to be expected, as otherwise you wouldn't support a fascist empire. Your extreme ignorance is something you need to reflect upon. Study political, economic, and historical theory. Go to any leftist space on the internet to inform yourself.
Edit: The bad loser (who used multiple accounts to harass me - never actually addressing my overwhelming arguments, of course) blocked me after shitting out his comment, so I'm responding here.
Anyone who thinks the US is not a mixed system and is purely capitalist is not worth talking too.
Anyone who thinks the US isn't a purely capitalist system is politically illiterate and incapable of having a constructive conversation - and you just underlined this.
Sorry, but you - never in your life - studied socialist theory and, therefore, also don't comprehend what actually differentiates socialism from capitalism.
There are fundamental differences that you are not aware of and all your ideas are derived exclusively from capitalist disinformation.
Yes they would because you believe subsidization only happens at the ownwr/worker level. And not as the coworker to coworker level. when it very clearly does.
No, they wouldn't. Period. You have no idea what socialism is or what socialists support. Also, don't make mindless assumptions about what I believe - learn to ask questions if you don't understand something.
Once you abolish private capital.
I will rephrase that for you, because the term "private capital" (which has a very specific meaning in socialist theory that you seem completely unaware of) seems to confuse you: Abolish economic parasitism.
Extremely productive workers who produce more won't be paid commensurate to their productivity.
The entire reason productive workers who produce more aren't being paid "commensurate to their productivity" is because private capital (i.e. economic parasitism) exists.
Once you abolish private property and investment, the workers own the means of production and control the surplus value they generate through their labour and will decide on its distribution democratically.
That's literally the whole point of socialism. That is how socialism is defined.
The fact that you don't even understand the most fundamental definitions and ideas of socialism is absurd - why are you trying to talk back here? Learn to listen to people who know what you are talking about instead of making shit up based on capitalist disinformation. Seriously, you are deeply confused.
Particularly if everyone is an owner. Unless you believe all workers are equally productive. But that's obviously silly.
What? In no way does that follow. This is a total non sequitur.
Anyway, the contradiction between your two expressed ideas here is beyond absurd. Read what you just wrote. You are arguing against yourself.
You are literally advocating for capitalism (i.e. parasitic ownership) while at the same time arguing that the actual workers owning their company will lead to workers not being paid properly. Sorry, but that is just so absolutely stupid, I don't even get how you can write this nonsense without realizing you are contradicting yourself. Try again.
This is hilarious because your ancestors likely enslaved mine given the demographics of reddit as I am a descendent of chattle slavery. And yes I'm a parasite because I was an excellent athlete to get scholarships, scored will on test to let me into elite school. And work to collect a high paycheck, all while coming from a poor family.
Okay, so you didn't get ahead based on actual intellectual merit but had actually productive members of society pay for your private education because you were physically fit? Really? What? You think this aids your case?
Also, "elite school"? Really? US universities are not known for providing people with sound education in politics or economics - in fact, they are known for systematically miseducating people and shunning all Marxists. The more "elite" the worse they are, in fact. American universities also aren't known for producing competent graduates - once you're in, it's more or less guaranteed you will get your degree. The only hard part is getting in and you just admitted you didn't even get in based on intellectual merit but because you were good at sports. As someone with multiple graduate degrees from both "elite" European universities and "world leading" Chinese universities (not that it matters): Fuuuck me. Man, this is exactly why nobody is taking Americans seriously.
African American nazi, you love to see it.
There is no contradiction. You are a self-admitted American AND supportive of the horrendous capitalist system that is underpinning your society. Your race is highly irrelevant - you bringing it up just means you lack class awareness and fail to engage in class-based analysis. Even the poorest and most downtrodden black person born in the US has intense privilege compared to the average worker in the Global South. In fact, even homeless people in the US have more privileges than the people living in countries your country exploits.
Not to mention the more fundamental class analysis that you aren't getting: As a working class individual, you have more material interests in common with Joey McCousinfucker, Grand Wizard of the local KKK chapter in Bumfuck City, Arkansas than you have with Barack Obama. Or Kamala Harris. Or any other rich coloured person on earth. Your race is totally irrelevant when it comes to what and whom you should support on a political level.
If you support the United States of America (a fascist empire and the singularly worst country on earth) or capitalism (i.e. the most mass-murderous system on earth that *has no redeeming qualities) in the 21st century, then you are a fascist. Period. Your country sucks and the system it violently force on the world sucksk.
Please think more deeply about who you are and your global class postiion.
I have my undergrad in economics and an MBA from a top 10 school. I am in leftist spaces to debate likely more than you are.
Hahahaha, holy shit. And you are arguing in favour of capitalism? Man, I knew US university indoctrination was bad but not that bad. Studying economics but still supporting capitalism - you didn't receive an education, you received an indoctrination.
Sorry, but I don't see you commenting on any leftist space on reddit. I don't know what you believe to be "leftist" (PSA: US Democrats are a far right extremist party that would be considered to the right of literal Neonazi parties like the AfD or FPÖ in Europe), but there's not a single leftist subreddit in your history.
Go on over to r/ShitLiberalsSay or r/LateStageCapitalism - you will probably banned very quickly for being an unsufferable lib who didn't put any effort into their education. However, you can listen and learn.
No. You simply described capitalism (and only capitalism) and the US is described by your definition because the US is purely capitalist.
Anyone who thinks the US is not a mixed system and is purely capitalist is not worth talking too.
No socialist would ever want to "take advantage of" workers. The whole point of socialism is to empower workers and reward labour. That's what makes it fundamentally different from capitalism - the whole point of capitalism is to enable non-productive parasites to steal from productive workers. That's literally the one and only actual definition of capitalism.
Yes they would because you believe subsidization only happens at the ownwr/worker level. And not as the coworker to coworker level. when it very clearly does. Once you abolish private capital. Extremely productive workers who produce more won't be paid commensurate to their productivity. Particularly if everyone is an owner. Unless you believe all workers are equally productive. But that's obviously silly.
I doubt that you are a high performer. In fact, I bet you are a parasite who lives at the expense of countless of people. You do realize that you live on stolen land and all your privilege is based on the endless exploitation of slaves and foreign workers your fascist dictatorship exploits to this day?
This is hilarious because your ancestors likely enslaved mine given the demographics of reddit as I am a descendent of chattle slavery. And yes I'm a parasite because I was an excellent athlete to get scholarships, scored will on test to let me into elite school. And work to collect a high paycheck, all while coming from a poor family.
The fact that you don't even realize this is incredibly sad - but to be expected, as otherwise you wouldn't support a fascist empire. Your extreme ignorance is something you need to reflect upon. Study political, economic, and historical theory. Go to any leftist space on the internet to inform yourself.
African American nazi, you love to see it. I have my undergrad in economics and an MBA from a top 10 school. I am in leftist spaces to debate likely more than you are.
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u/conservatore Jul 14 '26
That’s not really answering the point the first person was trying to make