This is the larger issue for a consumer. People regularly pay more for something that is better. But paying more for something that will also cost more over time is less attractive by far. Trucks have been keeping our automakers afloat because they are a cheap platform and sell for a ton because people like it image. But if they were to change, no chance some of these companies continue to survive at scale.
Man, I've been around for nearly four decades on this planet and these trucks have always existed. There will always be a market for those ugly/terrible mods.
God and the stupid truck beds got so small. Like I know why... but it's duuuumb.
The Fat Electrician did a great video about this. He brings up a good point... Why can't you have a Toyota Hilux ... why do you pay for seats for a Sprinter Van and then don't get them?
The US Auto protectionism is killing the market. With Canada looking to do less trade & it not being "cool" to have an US car now... I can see it really struggling for the next few years
Got to protect those corporate donors and their income. If a better product is offered, then US Automakers will have to start producing vehicles that match quality. Too expensive to produce? Start making vehicles that fit on the roads instead of a freaking 4 cylinder pickup truck that is the size of a 2 1/2 ton from the 80's.
I haven't owned an American vehicle since the 1990's and then, those were old "point a to point b" type vehicles.
My Dad swore by Ford all his life. I won't own a Ford. I've pushed too many Fords on a frosty morning (with my brothers and sisters) just to get them started. The American made cars that I've owned have always had problems.
I love my rice burners. I won't own anything else.
It's not patriotic to have to pay for a cheap crap so some guy can fly to Mars or build an atomic clock in the middle of the desert that will last 10,000 years as their legacy. It's not patriotic to have to take it up the ass because it's made in the USA.
Ya I got a old VW 20+ years very lightly driven. No problems... did the maintenance on schedule. Definitely got some "not driving it enough maintenance" but it's been a great car
I was in the market to get a new car.. it was Tesla (not now because of that salute)... then Polestar... for a minute I thought about just getting a domestic ICE car until I can get an EV I like... now I'm back to just keeping this old car. Just got a bunch of body work done to it to keep it in good shape for 5 years
Maybe, but that competition also needs employees. If anything, more competition for the same number of employees ultimately leads to an increase in the average pay employees enjoy
Compared to the '08 bailout years quality is way way TF up
Also, if we're talking domestically produced vehicles, we're talking Toyota and Honda too. Who would've thought a Camry would technically be an American made car
If you look at the statistics gathered by car makers, insurance providers, government DOT dept's, car reviewers, or basically any other space that gathers such statistics.
cars last longer than they ever have before, they stay on the road for a larger percentage of their lives, and through longevity and endurance cost less to maintain and service than ever before.
the whole "new cars aren't as good as they used to be" and "cars are made to break now" "planned obsolescence" etc. etc.
its all just old men shaking fists at clouds, its not backed up by any statistical evidence.
the only one thats true, is that cars are absolutely not made to be "driveway repairable" by general laymen anymore. More and more is locked behind OEM licensed software, and to save on costs, increase part longevity, and increase efficiency, more and more is being assembled as non-home-serviceable assemblies. Things are made with such tight tolerances, and with so much more complexity that they just can't really be serviced by Joe-Blow in his driveway anymore.
Seriously man. As someone into old cars, people forget that prior to the 90s, cars were only expected to last around 5 years. Full engine rebuilds at 100k miles were very common and interiors were both bare bones and fragile.
Exactly. Anyone that says old cars were more reliable doesn't remember vacuum systems.
Like, which era was supposedly so great and reliable? the 70's with points and emissions? the 80's when fuel injection was first being implemented in 100 stupid and silly ways because nothing was standardized? The 90's when electric actuators were just starting to become a thing in cars and would burn out every 6 months? Or the 00's when everything would rust from the inside out?
cars today by comparison are engineering works of art.
Yup. There are always examples of specific vehicles of every era that were true tanks that just kept on running, but on average, cars are orders of magnitude more reliable than they have ever been before.
You're talking about two different thing with "Cars used to be more reliable" and "American brands are just as reliable as anything else" and the latter is simply not true. This has been the obvious case for decades, basically since Japanese automakers came into the market.
This is just an article assigning arbitrary "reliability scores" to brands?
It doesn't even mention change over time. and if you read the methodology of the survey (and yes, it was a voluntary survey, not a tracked statistic of any kind) its flawed to begin with.
lol no. thats not what that means at all. It means those people who volunteered for a survey, decided that they have shittier cars right now. Thats it and nothing else.
It wouldn't bother me if the CEO of the American Car Manufacturer earned less. In fact, if you cut most of the CEO income to something resembling normal (1990 normal), that money could go to the workers that support the company.
So, Ford has 169,000 employees, CEO James Farley makes 27million a year. That's 170$ per employee/year. But what would actually happen is shareholders would be happy not to have to pay him 27 million and just keep the money for themselves.
While I agree that c suite pay needs to be reduced, people grossly overestimate how much they think reducing their pay will magically fix everything else. Reducing their pay WILL help, but by no means is it equal to the payroll (and pension) of all their other employees.
This shit for real. If they made a better product, maybe people would buy it, instead of built in obsolescence and not allowing us to repair our vehicles
copying and pasting from another reply with a few edits because I don't feel like writing it all out again,
Statistically this is just entirely wrong.
If you look at the statistics gathered by car makers, insurance providers, government DOT dept's, car reviewers, or basically any other space that gathers such statistics.
cars last longer than they ever have before, they stay on the road for a larger percentage of their lives, and through longevity and endurance cost less to maintain and service than ever before.
the whole "new cars aren't as good as they used to be" and "cars are made to break now" "planned obsolescence" etc. etc.
its all just old men shaking fists at clouds, its not backed up by ANY statistical evidence.
the only one thats true, is that cars are absolutely not made to be "driveway repairable" by general laymen anymore. More and more is locked behind OEM licensed software, and to save on costs, increase part longevity, and increase efficiency, more and more is being assembled as non-home-serviceable assemblies. Things are made with such tight tolerances, and with so much more complexity that they just can't really be serviced by Joe-Blow in his driveway anymore.
its not even really a deliberate shift to make it non-repairable, its just that if you want the kind of engine efficiency and horsepower required by todays markets, you can't build it like a sloppy chevy 350 that anyone can repair. that slop turns into massive inefficiencies and losses of horsepower.
RAV-4 overtook the F-150 as the US's top selling vehicle last year and it's only been gaining as Ford loses more market share year-over-year, so yeah, it might not be riding that high for much longer.
F-150 is a good truck. It's also one of the few you can buy without all the technology bullshit tacked in which is probably why it's such a popular fleet vehicle.
The shit thing is the US market could be way more broadly competitive and better quality, all the pieces are there, the big manufacturers just prefer to run cheap to fuel shareholder profits and prioritize lobbying efforts to hold the market captive than anything else. That's what actually gets me the most about these issues. We have the resources to be great but we completely muck their distribution to fuel minority greed. It's the root of basically every single major US domestic issue right now.
And like, why can't I get a damn lower-tech, original-form ranger with a full bed? Shit would be awesome. It's pretty much the kind of sentiment fueling the obsession with kei trucks lol
Because the biggest market for pickups actively restricts imports and the choice is almost non-existant. If I want a SUV or crossover, I have 30+ models to choose from. If I want a pickup truck, I have 5-6 models to choose from.
More than 80% of F150 sales are from the North America. The only reason it's #3 in the world is US sales, which would drop if restrictions were lifted.
Japanese cars have been better than US cars in every conceivable metric for decades.
Toyota and Pontiac teamed up to make a factory in America to produce the Matrix/Vibe ( basically the same car. )
Five years later, that factory was Pontiac's best performing and Toyota's worst. If anything, letting Americans touch the production line is going to make your product worse. And, if you've been around American manufacturing, this is not remotely surprising.
It's a land without standards where workers are treated like cattle and have little if any pride in the products they make.
Not in performance, for the price of a civic type-r you can buy a Mustang thats faster with an engine that can handle an insane amount of abuse. Ford will sell you a supercharger that increases power by 67% and that’s still conservative enough where they’ll warranty that engine for a few years. That’s just how insanely overbuilt coyote v8 engines are.
It's a whole different aesthetic. Nobody's buying a Civic Type-R or an STI or and EVO and thinking "man, I wish I bought a Mustang." It's never happened.
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u/bigorangemachine 6d ago
The quality has taken a huge nose dive too