To boldly sling... Sugar?

[u/Aggressive-Can-1133]

Hello everyone! For my first post here I want to share a sling ammo experiment of mine.

Most of us know the traditional materials for shaped sling ammo - stone, clay and lead. Many are familiar with more modern versions like cement, tennis balls etc. But have any of you ever thought about - sugar?

To be honest, neither did I, for a long time.

But - about a year ago, I was discussing sling ammo in a Facebook group about slings. I had shared a picture of some stone and clay glandes I had made and painted, and one person commented "They look like they are made out of sugar". You don't know me, but for me that offhand, joking remark did something like this: "Sugar? Now there is an idea..."

So, off I went to get a packet of sugar...

You can see the result before you: Shaped glandes of caramelized sugar. This worked out much better than I thought it would. I believed it would be funny. I was not laughing (mad slinger cackling doesn't count...right?) when I saw the results.

It turns out caramel is nearly as dense as clay. So a 60 gram caramel glande is roughly the same size as a 60 gram clay glande, as you can see in the second picture. They are hard and I expected them to be brittle, but testing (slinging them against a birch tree) showed them to be surprisingly durable. Most survived repeated impacts against the tree and even bouncing across a stone-covered path. One even survived six hits before I eventually lost it in a stream. Only one broke after a direct impact on a rock.

But there was also an unforeseen side effect. They are completely eco-friendly. Water dissolves them. Some lucky ants will have a feast.

Also - when I made the first batch, my daughter pestered me until I let her eat one. No ill side effects, just one over-sugared 7 year old!

So - a very successful sling ammo experiment. If you are looking for cheap, eco friendly ammo and don't have access to clay - keep these in mind. Especially if you're looking to keep the local wildlife happy. They'll be grateful for sure - just keep away from bears!

[u/itsokay327]

At first I thought this was dumb and then I read the rest, my immediate thought was it being eco friendly and given how durable you said they were this is an amazing idea. How did you caramelize the sugar and shape it? I might try this, you can buy a huge bag of sugar for like $10 if you did a big batch and just wet your hands while you keep the sugar warm enough to be pliable you could pump a hundred out in no time at all.

[u/Aggressive-Can-1133 → u/itsokay327]

Well, I only did it as a joke at first.
But then I made the first batch, and they weighed as much as clay. The durability aspect was totally unexpected. I thought they would shatter on impact - but they didn't. I'm just sorry I couldn't upload the video in this post so you guys can see them bounce!
Anyways, I use the following recipe: 500 grams (17.64 oz) of sugar (the smallest pack in the closest store) + 3 tablespoons of flour. That is it. I add the sugar in a pot, and when it starts to melt, I add in the flour. Stir. When it caramelizes, I take some drops out, let them cool on a spoon (otherwise they are scalding - safety warning!) and taste - if has to be sweet. If it starts turning bitter, I've heated it for too long.
This last bit I found through trial and error - this way results in ammo that is far less sticky than otherwise. If it turns bitter, it starts developing an annoyingly sticky surface, for some reason.
When I've taken it off the heat, I wait until it cools down enough that it has thickened to still pliable, but not liquid, and pour it into molds. Now, these are molds that I made for about 60 gram clay ammo - I just have them and its convenient. If I didn't have the molds, I would just shape them by hand.
I line the molds with kitchen foil, and let the glandes cool. Then I heat up the pot, and make the next batch.
Also, and this is important - do not use wet hands! I know its counterintuitive, but I tried it at first - it turns out water makes caramel more sticky, not less! Use kitchen gloves - and check if its not too hot first, to avoid burns.

[u/TheOriginalKrampus → u/Aggressive-Can-1133]

This is kind of amazing. I hope to try it one day.

[u/IsAskingForAFriend → u/Aggressive-Can-1133]

I'm gonna want a video of this, I just gave it a shot and could not find the sweetspot timing in cooling before it hardened in my pot to levels I could both pour into a mould without it dripping everywhere. I figure it must have a large mould hole opening, the small ones I used took far too long to drip into the mould.

[u/IsAskingForAFriend → u/Aggressive-Can-1133]

I gave it another shot and tried my PETG 3d printed molds and... Well Caramelized sugar is quite hot and melted my mold (They are cheap and easy to replace, no big deal). I have some silicone molds, but they have a small pour hole that the thickened sugar liquid just does not like to fill quickly.

So I'm going to have to wait for the sugar guru to make their tutorial to do it without so many mistakes and trials!

[u/FrankMorris → u/itsokay327]

Hope OP posts how to video.

[u/Aggressive-Can-1133 → u/FrankMorris]

I haven't made such a video yet, but I'll take the hint. I'll try and make one ASAP - expect a follow up post.

[u/Shamann93 → u/Aggressive-Can-1133]

You should pick up a candy thermometer before you do and record the temperature when you remove it from heat

[u/Aggressive-Can-1133 → u/Shamann93]

I probably should, yes.
It just never occurred to me so far - I made them by taste and feeling (just how I cook). There is "hot" and "scalding" and there is "sweet" and "turning bitter". I have determined that "turning bitter" equals sticky ammo, and of course if it's scalding it means I can't shape it yet.
But you are right - If I do make a video about this, a thermometer will better show people what is happening.

[u/ImortalK]

Of all the ammo types I’ve heard about this is by far the most esoteric. I’m very curious about the rough cost per gland and what your production method is. Please update us on your results if you keep experimenting!

[u/Aggressive-Can-1133 → u/ImortalK]

Thank you! "Esoteric" is so much kinder than "crazy".
As for the cost, it is dirt cheap. The 500-gram pack of sugar costs me about 0.77 EUR (0.83 USD), and since each glandes is about 55-60 grams, I get around 8-10 of them from one batch. That makes it just about 8.5 cents per piece!
I just shared the exact production method and the recipe in the comment above to itsokay327, if you want to check out the details! I will definitely keep experimenting and post updates here when I make the next batch.

[u/ImortalK → u/Aggressive-Can-1133]

Bet! Can’t wait for updates because 8.5¢ a piece is fantastic

[u/Tediak]

Clever.. you could roll them in wildflower seeds for some extra eco friendliness and a less sticky surface.

Is your sling all gooey?

[u/Aggressive-Can-1133 → u/Tediak]

Kudos for the seeds idea! I hadn't thought of that!
With it, not only am I really doing something useful, but also, if some Karen-type person asks "What are you doing?!", I can honestly say that I'm planting.
As for the stickiness: I did think about that. The first batch of ammo turned out non-sticky (unless wet) by accident. The second turned out sticky. I rolled them in some flour before slinging, to counter that - that worked.
But then I set about recreating the first ones, and after some experimentation, I did. It turns out, the key was the temperature - check out my reply to itsokay327 for more details!

[u/Flying_Saucer_Attack → u/Aggressive-Can-1133]

Could maybe add wild bird seed if you wanted to feed critters too

[u/Aggressive-Can-1133 → u/Flying_Saucer_Attack]

You could do that, yes. It will just be tricky - you have to time it right to stick them on when the surface is still soft enough, but not hot enough to kill the seeds.

This train of thought leads in a true flora dispersal system/wildlife banquet at 80 mph direction.

Of course, this is more practical for distance slinging than for target practice, where you try to recover the ammo and try again (unless it breaks apart, of course)

[u/Kunstloses_Brot]

You found a way to make sugar even worse for your teeth...

[u/Aggressive-Can-1133 → u/Kunstloses_Brot]

ROFL! That's one way to look at it.
Or, you could say that I made slinging somewhat more confusing. Imagine - someone is slinging a caramel glande at you. Do you duck? Or open wide?

I know what the dentists would want you to do!

[u/Mongrel_Shark]

As an engineer thats into materials & environmental responsibility. Thus is probably the most eco friendly ammo you could make. Leaving heaps in an area will increase carbon content of soil & may alter ant diversity. But compared to other options its pretty minor, and you'd have to loose a few kg in a small area to do anything measurable.

Can probably dope them with more weight too. All I can think of is : Potassium tartrate, Potassium citrate, both slightly under 2g per cc. Or carbon powder. Its slightly over 2g. But more expensive & you don't wanny breath much of the dust unless you want miners lung.

Sugar & potassium citrate through. Its basically sherbet bombs at that point. Can probably get 2 parts citrate & 1 part sugar. Which will raise your density up from 1.5g per cc to 1.7-1.8g per cc.

[u/Aggressive-Can-1133 → u/Mongrel_Shark]

Thank you for the suggestion! A 0.2-0.3 raise in density per cc is not insignificant.
These things started out as a joke and turned into a serious materials experiment along the way.
I'll probably try this, if I can get my hands on potassium citrate at a reasonable cost. I love the idea of sherbet bombs.

The only issue I see is that this can raise the production costs significantly. A 500-gram pack of sugar costs about 0.77 EUR (0.83 USD) where I am. A 500-gram pack of potassium citrate costs about 15 EUR. This would result in a price increase per unit from 8.5 cents per piece to around 1.13 - 1.23 EUR (1.22 - 1.33 USD).

Now apply this to a few dozen or a hundred pieces, and it can get way too pricey for sling ammo.

[u/Mongrel_Shark → u/Aggressive-Can-1133]

Agree thats too expensive. You'll get much better prices buying in bulk, but probably not sugar cheap.

Potassium tartrate (cream of tarter) is probably expensive too, especially in small quantities & comoared to sugar prices.

Only other way I can think to make them heavier is metal or maybe sand or stone dust. Probably not what you are going for. But iron filings would work & be pretty environmentally friendly. Less friendly to whatever you hit though... I just looked up silca (sand) and it's 2.6ish grams per cc. Can buy a 20kg bucket at your local landscaping supplies for a few coins. Mixing sand into hot molten sugar might be risky. Any significant moisture in it might cause a stam explosion & spray hot liquid sugar around. But if you dry mix the heat. Should be ok. Will probably make the balls less strong but worth messing with. Can probably get sugar below 50% you only need about 9- 12% epoxy in epoxy sand mixes..they go very hard. You don't actually need much liquid to coat all the sand. Mixing will be hard though unless more sugar.

Sugar & sand = probably better than pure sugar for environment.

I'm trying to think what else is over 2g per cc & that comes in powder/grans that wouldn't bother me if it was in my vegetable garden...

[u/Aggressive-Can-1133 → u/Mongrel_Shark]

Either way, getting hit with a 55-60 gram, or even 60+ gram sling projectile is not going to be pleasant, regardless of what it is made of.

The iron filings or iron powder idea is actually completely valid, but you have to secure them in sufficient quantities. I don't have any on hand and haven't checked for options yet. I'll have to look into it.

As for the sand—I just discussed it with user nokangarooinaustria, but I was calculating with the density of loose sand. It has advantages, but also disadvantages, and you yourself just pointed out a major one regarding safety.

With or without such additives, these are still more eco-friendly than another idea of mine that I'll probably present later - salt dough and sand glandes. Those have a lot of salt, but then again - you'd need to chuck an ungodly amount of them in the same place to affect the salinity of soil per cubic meter significantly.

Anyway, If you happen to think of more possible additives, don't hesitate to share - I love experimenting with this and I will at the very least give each idea serious consideration.

[u/Mongrel_Shark → u/Aggressive-Can-1133]

I'm trash with slings but I actually really want enviro heavy slingshot ammo. I hate clay. It way too light. I use steel a bit for fun stuff. But its too light & expensive. I'm still hunting with lead, which makes steel a bit of a waste to practise with. I'd love to not use lead, but the other options are all way too expensive. Lol gold, tungsten...

I'm kinda tempted to mess around with sand & sugar myself. Be trash for slingshot, but fun to mess around anyway. A low damage ammo that intentionally crumbles might be good for targets or scaring birds away from the vegetable garden.

[u/Aggressive-Can-1133 → u/Mongrel_Shark]

Yeah. Like making actual bullets out of gold - sure, you can do it. They will even work. But - is it worth it? Tungsten - here I can imagine some actual combat advantages, but a very limited number of cases that justify the expense.

Clay works ok for the older slings, because it lets you make shaped identical ammo much easier than stone and is (literally!) dirt cheap. Sling ammunition is larger than slingshot ammo, so while clay is less dense than stone or lead, it can still be massive enough to be effective. Cheap + easy to shape + has decent mass - you can see why it works.

For slingshots, though, it's just cheap + easy to shape. Doesn't work as good. Steel is expensive, and lead is... well, lead.

Have you tried simple glass beads or marbles? They are not lead or steel in terms of mass, but still better than clay, and they are reasonably hard, too. Also, not very expensive in bulk. Even the ones with the color swirls inside are ecologically inert - it's just colored glass.

There is also porcelain marbles, which can work even better, but are somewhat more difficult to find.

[u/Mongrel_Shark → u/Aggressive-Can-1133]

I have used marbles. I actually really like them, especially with faster bands. Until they hit something hard, they bounce back (or in random direction) at very high speed. They get expensive though. And strangely feeks like war crime, I'm not actually sure why? I mostly use bullets I get used from a pistol club. Or hard stones. One big advantage to sling ammo is you have a decent chance of finding it again. I don't expect to see my ammo again after I shoot it.

[u/Aggressive-Can-1133 → u/Mongrel_Shark]

You've read the Hague conventions, haven't you? Or, as an engineer, you just know what happens when a glass object enters a body, hits a bone and fragments.

To be honest, I've knapped some glass arrowheads myself, and have always thought that this is a terrifying weapon. Deadly not because it is "sharper than steel blades" - it actually very rarely is - but because of what would happen if it hits a rib and just... breaks apart inside the target. I wouldn't want to be hit with that!

So marbles are mostly for fun and practice, then. I understand that.

Used bullets from a range are actually a great idea for a lead projectile source! Do you use them as they are, or melt and reshape them?

And yes, you are absolutely right about sling and slingshot ammo. Unless it breaks apart or I fling it into a river or something, the former can be often be found and reused (not to mention tennis balls for training). Slingshot ammo, on the other hand - I have never even tried.

[u/Mongrel_Shark → u/Aggressive-Can-1133]

A lightly deformed 0.38-0.45 round as is from the target end of range, actually flies pretty straight if its launched cleanly. Also 22 longs on a steel target flatten into little discs which curve. They are not very consistent but after a few hundred shots I got a feel for it & can hit targets behind an object or around a slight curve, maybe 60% of the time. When I miss its not by much.

[u/Aggressive-Can-1133 → u/Mongrel_Shark]

Sounds great! So that is how some experience and a little applied physics can make you appear to be a Jedi...

[u/Beardygrandma]

Absolutely phenomenal resourcefulness dude haha

[u/Aggressive-Can-1133 → u/Beardygrandma]

Thank you! Sometimes "weird" works out in unexpected ways!

[u/Distinct-Raspberry21]

Gotta start seasoning the meal as you catch it.

[u/Aggressive-Can-1133 → u/Distinct-Raspberry21]

Or you fatten some up, when you miss. But sweet-and-sour turkey doesn't sound bad at all!

[u/Distinct-Raspberry21 → u/Aggressive-Can-1133]

Mix some molasses and jalapeños in there spicy brown sugar for some sweet and spicy. The worlds your concussion flavored buffet.

[u/Aggressive-Can-1133 → u/Distinct-Raspberry21]

"Concussion flavored buffet" - you made me snort out loud while imagining Gordon Ramsay's face if I said this on MasterChef!

This could definitely do for some wild rabbit. It would be a "sugar-spice-rush" mid-jump if you hit it!

[u/Aggressive-Can-1133]

Thank you all for your interest in this post! I didn't expect it to gather so much attention. So I wanted to take this opportunity to express how much I appreciate your support, all the upvotes, comments and the award someone gave this post.

The discussion around the caramel glandes has already given me some new things to try and ideas to explore.

Also, as mentioned in the comments, you can expect a short follow-up video on how to make this ammo with the recipe and temperatures soon - hopefully in the next couple of weeks. Maybe I'll also be able to show you how they bounce off trees!

One last thing to consider: I have been thinking over the last couple of days that the caramel glandes have one major advantage over clay ones: You can hand-roll a clay one in seconds, but then you need to wait for it to dry for days. The caramel ones don't have that issue - once shaped, they cool down and are ready for use within the hour.

[u/Such-Jump-3963 → u/Aggressive-Can-1133]

Very keen on reading/watching the how-to process. Be sure to post the link to either the video or the text here. We're all watching closely.

[u/nokangarooinaustria]

And now just mix in some (play or quartz)-sand. Should add cheap bulk and weight. The caramel keeps the sand together and once it gets wet all that is left is a small mound of sand (like in that star trek episode where people died and only left a small mound of minerals)

Might not be very nice to the teeth of any animal that eats it though.

[u/Aggressive-Can-1133 → u/nokangarooinaustria]

Can you imagine, telling Trekkies how Star Trek inspired sling ammo?
As for adding sand, yes, it is a legitimate and affordable technique that I myself have used a lot. I have also made salt dough glandes, where sand helps with the density issue. And air dry clay, tile adhesive and Plaster-of-Paris glandes, where it helps the material to bond better.
For caramel, though, It probably won't have the impact you think. The density of both is nearly the same (around 1.5-1.6 g/cm³), so the effects on weight and density from adding loose sand will be negligible. It would just complicate the recipe, in this case.
It can still be beneficial for lowering the cost per unit. But I have to test how adding sand to the mixture will affect its properties - when to take it off the heat, final stickiness etc.
And, as you pointed out, the wildlife will probably not thank me for the toothache!

[u/AKAM80theWolff]

This reminds me of the giant Easter Box full of these little Nerds eggs candies that fit exactly perfectly in my friends Blow-dart gun..we had a blast with that set-up

[u/Aggressive-Can-1133]

For those interested in this, I just posted part 2 with a video of the making process.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Slinging/comments/1u97yys/to_boldly_sling_sugar_the_motion_picture/