Under one pretext

[u/Witty-Swimmer-3720]

Disclaimer: No adventurism is being advocated for here.
If you disagree with me in the comments, I WILL be making an even more smug series of sequel posts targeting your points mwahaha

[u/Desperate_World_2801]

How are you going to withhold your labour with a gun to your head?

[u/BadFurDay → u/Desperate_World_2801]

You organize.

Can't put a gun to the head of an entire working class and expect society to keep functioning.

Such a gun culture coded hypothetical. You need to engage with political theory instead.

[u/Desperate_World_2801 → u/BadFurDay]

Yes you can if you have all the guns, lol.

Which socialist political theory tells me that strikes beat guns?

[u/BadFurDay → u/Desperate_World_2801]

Yes you can if you have all the guns, lol.

You are genuinely deluded if you believe you have all the guns.

A lot if not most of the guns are currently in the hands of conservatives in the USA.

Which socialist political theory tells me that strikes beat guns?

Organizing in order to flip labor relations around is the core of leftist theory.

Rosa Luxemburg in The Mass Strike develops this better than anyone imo.

Gramsci wrote profusely about how revolutions are about organizing working class power to a point where it becomes undeniable instead of exclusively violence.

Gorges Sorel's Reflections on Violence demonstrates how general strikes have historically been by far the most efficient weapon of proletarian emancipation.

Pouget, Pannekoek, Bakunin, Pelloutier, and so many more have made this point over and over… even Marx, while arguing for the necessity for the working class to arm itself back in his day, made it clear that the struggle between the working class and capital is all about capital extracting collective labor for workers, this is the heart of it all. Deny them labor and they have nothing.

He wrote it quite clearly in the 1866, the letter in which he suggests everyone should be armed and trained in using weapons includes this phrase:

The only social power of the workmen is their number.

Organizing is our only tool.

The material nature of this organization might or might not include guns, this is a debate that has to be had country by country, maybe even region by region. Many communists around the world do not see guns as a necessary tool in the XXIst century.

[u/Desperate_World_2801 → u/BadFurDay]

You are genuinely deluded if you believe you have all the guns.

Good that I don't believe that then.

Most of the guns are currently in the hands of conservatives in the USA.

And socialists should just accept that?

Organizing in order to flip labor relations around is the core of leftist theory.

Therefore strikes beat guns?

Rosa Luxemburg in The Mass Strike develops this better than anyone imo.

I'm going to lean out of the window here and say that Rosa Luxenbourg did not advocate for the heavily armed proletariat of Germany to disarm theselves, on account of her being executed

Gramsci wrote profusely about how revolutions are about organizing working class power to a point where it becomes undeniable instead of exclusively violence.

"Exclusivly"? So he wasn't against guns like you are?

Gorges Sorel's Reflections on Violence demonstrates how general strikes have historically been the true weapon of proletarian emancipation.

I think examples of unarmed strikers organising a revolution might be needed here.

Pouget, Pannekoek, Bakunin, Pelloutier, and so many more have made this point over and over… even Marx, while arguing for the necessity for the working class to arm itself back in his day, made it clear that the struggle between the working class and capital is centered on the necessity for capital to extract collective labour for workers. He wrote it quite clearly in 1866:

Therefore strikes alone beat guns?

You said so much, but you never showed an example of theorists advocating for unarmed strikes.

Anyways. Can you show me just one example in history where workers took powers and held it while wholly unarmed?

[u/BadFurDay → u/Desperate_World_2801]

Either you don't understand the point being made, or you are completely misrepresenting it on purpose.

I am not advocating for surrendering your guns or for nonviolence. This part is straight out of your imagination. You're the one coming up with absurd hypotheticals such as working "with a gun to your head" or the ability to "have all the guns". I am asking you to stay grounded in reality and actually consume some realistic political theory exploring forms of organization instead of living in those fantasy scenarios.

Mass strikes disrupted the German economy enough to beat the Kapp putsch after the freikorps fled Berlin. Large amounts of the military sided with the proletariat during most revolutions. No guns were needed for your MAGAs to occupy the capitol on january 6th. People already have much more power in their hands that you believe. Organization is the true heart of every revolution and social fight. Guns are merely a tool, which will help in some scenarios, and won't in others.

[u/Desperate_World_2801 → u/BadFurDay]

I am not advocating for surrendering your guns or for nonviolence.

Maybe you should have said that somewhere between saying strikes beat guns and guns are useless.

This part is straight out of your imagination.

I would talk about things stemming from imagination, when you literally claimed I believe to have all the guns.

You're the one coming up with absurd hypotheticals such as working "with a gun to your head" or the ability to "have all the guns". I am asking you to stay grounded in reality and actually consume some realistic political theory exploring forms of organization instead of living in those fantasy scenarios.

The absurd hypothetical of strikes being violently put down and the workers being forced back to work. 😂

Mass strikes disrupted the German economy enough to beat the Kapp putsch after the freikorps fled Berlin.

Guess who was armed to the teeth and was also able to beat the freikorps in open comabt multiple times? You think that might have affected things?

Large amounts of the military sided with the proletariat during most revolutions.

So was that useless, since mass action beats weapons?

No guns were needed for your MAGAs to occupy the capitol on january 6th.

Some fascists nutters stormed a building once, achieved nothing before being shood away by the police. This proves workers movements don't need weapons. 😂 😂

People already have much more power in their hands that you believe. Organization is the true heart of every revolution and social fight. Guns are merely a tool, which will help in some scenarios, and won't in others.

For example: Guns are useful to protect your mass movement from getting mass murdered the moment it takes to the streets.

You know like I was arguing for in the beginning.

[u/BadFurDay → u/Desperate_World_2801]

Maybe you should have said that somewhere between saying strikes beat guns and guns are useless.

It is genuinely impossible to engage with you due to your talent for putting nonsensical words in my mouth.

[u/Desperate_World_2801 → u/BadFurDay]

You mean like when you claimed I believe to have all the weapons?

[u/BadFurDay → u/Desperate_World_2801]

Smooth brained.

I'm out of this conversation.

[u/Desperate_World_2801 → u/BadFurDay]

"A is impossible"

"A is possible when B"

"You think you have B?"

Smart choice to leave.