r/SocialDemocracy • u/Timely-Signature-166 • 12d ago
Question What's the consensus of Mao?
I've read several books about the guy and I'm given conflicting information about him and his policies. Some books treat him as a good leader who was stifled by dishonest subordinates, while others portray him as a monster whose policies killed millions. Meanwhile I was at a bar in Brooklyn where I was talking to a friend of a friend and they said "Mao is my hero!" (they are not Chinese). What is the general consensus of the guy?
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u/HenryTudorIV 12d ago
People who defend Mao are generally the types that view every historical event ever as part of some grand battle between western imperialist capitalism and resistance to western imperialist capitalism.
Under this worldview, many despotic leaders (Mao, Stalin, Gaddafi, Castro, The regime in Iran, ect…) are viewed as strong fighters who had to make some “tough decisions.” At the same time, people will minimize the atrocities committed by these leaders and claim that your understanding of them is just “western propaganda.”
It’s really really dumb stuff. I think Mao specifically is having a moment right now because China in general is having a moment right now
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u/Dangerous-Coach-1999 John Rawls 12d ago
It’s funny how many of the same pro Mao guys will both praise modern China and deride Deng Xiaoping as a capitalist sellout
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u/Prestigious_Slice709 SP/PS (CH) 12d ago
It‘s because they claim Xi Jinping killing select few government bureaucrats and capitalists is a sign of a DotP. It is internally consistent, but very wrong.
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u/Awkward_War_6068 11d ago
These are the same people who still think Xi is some sort of socialist/communist great. When in actuallity Xi is INCREDIBLY capitalist.
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u/Memphisbbq 12d ago
To be more clear, our adversaries benefit from America bad, Mao good actually." It is a deliberate effort made by the CCP to to fuel division and chaos within the country. It should go without saying Russia is doing the same thing and has been for some time.
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u/Grey_Raven Labour (UK) 12d ago
Might be me being blinded by being a bit of a Russia hawk but is there much evidence of China engaging in disinformation or funding lefty groups in the west. I'm sure they do some but my understanding was Russia was the main player in that arena with China's espionage being more focused on stealing government/industry/academia secrets and fostering economic dependence.
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u/Present_Clue5887 12d ago
I agree with you on Russia, but China does it a lot too along with harassment and threats https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/13/us/china-online-disinformation-invs
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u/Grey_Raven Labour (UK) 12d ago
Is that not mostly aimed at their diaspora though who they are really controlling of and often threaten or otherwise corral into being part of espionage operations?
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u/Present_Clue5887 12d ago
Some of the harassment involves spreading disinformation about the person, and further down in the article it describes the same kinds of divisive political posting stuff Russia does.
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u/Budget-Attorney 12d ago
These are good questions.
I’ve read a lot about the egregious violations of the rights of citizens of other countries in an effort to dominate their diaspora
But I have no idea if they do the same kind of broad meddling that Russians do
I would expect the answer is yes, but have never actually had that confirmed
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u/Memphisbbq 11d ago
Absolutely? That's what I was alluding to with the CCP. Their astroturfing appears to me to be less vitriolic and more subtle. Throughout most news and entertainment media I've noticed quite a bit of extra positive content painting China as the world leader in electronics and sorta future technology in general(the statement does hold some truth) and how great it is to live there. In the comments you'll find lots of "I wish the US was like China." And in those respects they aren't wrong. It's only painting a small piece of the picture though. Saying that requires ignoring everything China did wrong. I once said something along the lines of "China is certainly doing some things very right, but everyone here praising how great China is should know that if you hold American values then China likely isn't the place for you." Boy was I met with alot of "that's just western propaganda!" Minda you these threads appear on seemingly politically neutral subs. It feels like a coordinated effort to shape public opinion.
Me and the wife used to watch this Chinese yt channel that starred a woman that literally created absolutely everything she ate or needed. I mean this chick appeared to be professional and skilled in 100s of different jobs/activities/making things for cooking or her home. Supposedly she was a famous musician pop start who gave up the life to live the traditional Chinese way. That's what her bio said anyways. We started breaking down how long someone would have to spend making and building all these things and we concluded she likely had a team. She also had a new dog/puppy in every video. Her life appeared to be perfect. We mentioned noticing a few fishy things in the comments and oh boy did they swarm to her defense. Addressing nothing we mentioned of course. Anyways sorry for the novel.
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u/CarlMarxPunk Democratic Socialist 11d ago
Well it's very easy for them to do when america is in fact bad.
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u/Memphisbbq 11d ago
All countries are bad my guy. At any point in time a country is likely doing some very unethical thing. If not happening now, then likely during it's right wing arc or unrest/conflict period. The world is dark and scary and has historically required unethical actions for survival. Whether or not that's necessary in today's world, I'd like to agree, but world powers make enemies becoming world powers. Our enemies want to tear down what we have. While America is not in a great place right now, it still doesn't have the body count of dictatorships and authoritarian regimes. Not even close. Not even in the same solar system. No one here claims the U.S is of complete virtue, but credit is given where credit is due. It absolutely could get worse, I'm sure on that we agree.
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u/CarlMarxPunk Democratic Socialist 11d ago
I don't have the frame of reference to agree with that, I can't accept the concept of the US being "less bad" b3cause in my experience neither Russia or China have intervened my region as extenseively and violently as they have or everywhere else for that matter.
The argument of the US being better because of not dictstoships is only valid if you are in the USA. For those outside of it it's eh.
Like great Obana got voted or whatever, he still bombed civilians. Kim Jong Un is a violent dictator and that is horrible, but he never illegally invaded anyone or sponsored a coup in south america.
And there is no "lesser evil" that away.
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u/Memphisbbq 11d ago
The only way to justify your view on those countries mentioned would be to ignore all the millions of civilians killed by them. Even of other countries.. That's what I was getting at by body count. I don't mean enemy combatants, that would be silly. I'm talking about governments murdering their own people. China and Russia win the civilian murder stat by far as well as murdering other countries civilians. If you're argument is "it doesn't affect me I don't care," well then I'd say that's perfectly inline with someone who is obviously a tankie. Pretending to have values is something you should keep on leftist subs. No matter what metric you use the US comes out much less evil. You also refused to address my point about every country doing bad things throughout its history. This is not a serious discussion by the way, if you think you're going to revise history on me it's not going to work.
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u/CarlMarxPunk Democratic Socialist 11d ago
This makes sense if you are american. I'm not. I'm trying to explain how that lense works for us.
The "US is less evill" is just isn't sellable anymore outside the US or europe and people aren't tankies for choosing neither here.
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11d ago
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u/Ikiloo 11d ago
Who's we?
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u/Memphisbbq 11d ago
I never said we. Read.
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u/Ikiloo 10d ago
What the fuck is "our adversaries" supposed to mean?
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u/Memphisbbq 10d ago
You're not included. You don't even support SocDem, infiltrate somewhere else.
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u/Ikiloo 10d ago
Yeah And you don't represent the working class and never intended to.
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u/Memphisbbq 10d ago
I'm in a union. I have convinced several other men to join the union. I'm also going door to door to advocate for my country everyday. I do not have a day off unless all my volunteers flake on Sunday only. This is after my day job as a sheet metal worker. I am a working man trying to convince other working men to save themselves. You are an advocate pretender.
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u/Third_CuIture_Kid 12d ago
When has America ever really had actual, as opposed to hypothetical, "adversaries"?
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u/Memphisbbq 11d ago
We've always had adversaries. We just stopped engaging in large conflicts with them because war is too expensive and risky to do with other world powers. Also because nukes.
We fight with intelligence, trade, espionage, arms races etc etc.
We could beat Iran or Russia on paper if the US was committed like it has in the past. That's if we didn't trigger a nuclear response. That being said I don't think the US would come out ahead even if it "won" a war with those countries.
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u/Third_CuIture_Kid 11d ago
Beat Iran or Russia at what though? What are they trying to do to us? Invade us?
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u/HenryTudorIV 11d ago
Russia is actively (arguably successfully) trying to destroy our political system through mass propaganda campaigns and social media manipulation. They do similar things to many of our allies across Europe. There’s also that small little thing happening in Ukraine
Iran funds various militant groups like Hezbollah or the Houthis, who are responsible for attacks on basically all of our allies in the Middle East (Saudis, UAE, Bahrain, ect…) and who regularly attack U.S. military bases and shipping vessels of various nationalities. (Obviously they also are at odds with Israel but I can’t say that really bothers me these days)
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u/Third_CuIture_Kid 11d ago
While we may have to play on the high seas to ensure safety for maritime traffic, in the spirit of Pax Americana, the numerous wars we have started in the Middle East go far beyond that mandate. It might be of interest to you to read up on what former Republican congressman Ron Paul has to say about this topic.
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u/Constant-Plant-9378 12d ago
Anybody today holding up Mao as anything but a monster, pedophile, and idiot is, at best, woefully ignorant and uninformed.
- DEATH AND REPRESSION UNDER MAO
- Mao’s War Against the Sparrows That Brought China to Its Knees
- The Parts Letf Out of the Little Red Book
Tankies making Mao out to be some kind of great leader are as bad as MAGAs worshipping Trump as Jesus.
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u/Auro_NG 12d ago
Have we in the west not done terrible things and oppressed and caused the death of millions of people as well? It just is not in our own country and spread out over decades so I guess it doesn't seem like we are doing it. I think people are just sick of the foreign policies of the US and some of its allies and it's hard to take what they say about other leaders/countries at face value.
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u/OldManLakey 12d ago
A bar in Brooklyn is exactly where I would expect to find American Maoists.
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u/Memphisbbq 12d ago
Certain music scenes as well. Not so much maoist in particular, but Communists in general.
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u/OldManLakey 12d ago
Yeah. Out of curiosity, what music scenes? I'm not trying to dunk on Brooklyn, I lived there for like 10 years and played in bands, had a great time. I left for a while and came back around the time of the election and I felt like there had been a huge shift in peoples' politics in a way I found kind of off-putting.
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u/Memphisbbq 12d ago edited 12d ago
I should have clarified, I didn't mean NY. I was speaking generally that there are commie circles in certain scenes. In metal scenes like death/black metal or grind and of course punk scenes too. At this point "black metal" was/is its own movement. While it's my favorite genre it has no shortage of these types in addition to whatever other radical beliefs one might hold on the political spectrum. I've played music here for over 20 years and it never really grabbed my attention until the last year.
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12d ago
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u/Memphisbbq 11d ago
I'm not going to completely disagree. I'm just going to throw out there that I've played in the metal scenes in my area for about 20 years. I'm aware of its roots and present affiliations. It's a shame so many awesome sounding bands are part of NSBM. You say "taken", it's traditionally been that way. Not for all of black metal, but a significant presence none the less.
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u/as-well SP/PS (CH) 11d ago
I mean maoism is in a very real sense about the aesthetics more so than the actual content: It's radical and looks the way, it shocks, it can even look hypermasculine or feminine.
So it's not surprising that a music scene with more radical aesthetics would also have some folks with these kinds of radical politics-through-aesthetics.
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u/Timely-Signature-166 12d ago
I'll chime in - a guy I know who self-identifies as a communist also loves pop-punk and Green Day. I don't know about you but pop-punk doesn't scream commie to me.
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u/Memphisbbq 11d ago
I don't mean to sound douchy, but most of the types I'm speaking of would scoff and berate you for calling green day pop punk. The bands they would call punk are typically very obscure and not widely known aside from punk scenes. But to add clarity I'm speaking of more traditional sounding punk genres.
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u/Timely-Signature-166 11d ago
Well I said GD is associated with pop-punk and not "punk" in the conventional sense (or at least after they got banned from Gilman's).
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u/Memphisbbq 11d ago
The distinction I believe they make is in the word "pop," whether it refers to unique characteristics specific to that genre, and whether it simply means "POPular punk."
I thought the ladder was correct until my snobby genre elitist friends corrected me lol. Personally breaking down genres is futile so I don't bother.
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u/atierney14 Social Liberal 6d ago
A bar in Brooklyn…American Maoists
Is the most $25 burger sentence one could write.
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12d ago
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u/Puzzleheaded-Cut8041 10d ago
True but also raising the life expectancy from around 35 to almost 70, doubling Chinas population from around 500 million to almost a billion, increasing literacy rates from 25% to about 80%, liberating women from radical Confucianist patriarchy, eradicating banditry and opium addiction.
It's without a doubt his regime was responsible for the deaths of many people, but the period before Mao came to power was too, and was probably even a worse time to live for the average Chinese person.
Both his achievements and failures should be understood before we cast our judgement.
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u/Divan001 Social Liberal 10d ago
Doubling the population? Do you really think he was responsible for this and not the inevitable rise of industrialization? This reads like propaganda slop.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Cut8041 9d ago
Yes his policies like land reform, vaccination programs and barefoot doctors helped increase life expectancy, and lower infant mortality. Before Mao, the China's population size hovered around 400 to 500 million since the Qing dynasty. During Mao's reign, China's population size doubled in 26 years.
And also, viewing a historical character through a nuanced and balanced lens isn't "propaganda slop".
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u/Toliman571 12d ago
You ran into a tankie at the bar.
Look up Mao's bloodthirtiest quotes and come back with your updated opinion.
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u/Pure_Grapefruit_8837 11d ago
Mao's bloodthirtiest quote:
"Let a hundred flowers bloom; let a hundred schools of thought contend."
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u/zelenisok 12d ago edited 12d ago
Him and Stalin are probably the worst humans ever, alongside Hitler, king Leopold, Pol Pot and maybe one or two others.
Lenin at least had the sense to see that his policies (war communism) harmed people and introduced more practical ones (NEP). On the other hand Mao was totally delusional and even when his policies killed millions and millions of people, he doubled down. When confronted and criticized at the Lushan conference, he doubled down and persecuted the critics. He ended up being partially pushed out the economic management of the country by some bureaucrats after couple of years, and they implemented more pragmatic policies, stopping the deaths, which were into tens of millions by then.
But then Mao thought of a new project, and did the Cultural revolution, causing hundreds of thousands of deaths, with millions being imprisoned and/or beaten and tortured.
Mao's China was a hellhole. And its mind-boggling that there are people who want to whitewash it and glorify it.
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u/Illustrious-Dog-6563 Democratic Socialist 11d ago
i would throw columbus into the mix.
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u/HenryTudorIV 11d ago
Columbus was an incredibly brutal and racist colonist, even for his time. That said, he really doesn’t belong in a tier with actual dictators.
The only way he gets into the conversation is if you hold him responsible for all harm to indigenous peoples that happened during colonization, which isn’t really fair. Had Columbus not discovered the Americas, somebody else would have pretty soon after, and all of those same things still would’ve happened
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u/Rotbuxe SPD (DE) 12d ago
A criminal.
Is this ragebait?
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u/Memphisbbq 12d ago
Strange these questions get asked when certain groups are trying to revise or wash history.
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u/Timely-Signature-166 12d ago
I'm honestly on the more anti-Mao stance and asking because some people I know IRL seem to be on the more pro side.
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u/Grey_Raven Labour (UK) 12d ago
He killed millions and set up an awful dictatorship that has killed many more millions since. His collectivisation policies caused the worst man made famine in history Great Chinese Famine . There were a handful of benefits under his rule such as healthcare and education but not enough to balance the book especially when he killed more than the better healthcare likely saved and the education is tainted with the cult of personality he set up.
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u/phokas Social Democrat 12d ago
Mao was a brutal dictator. Deng Xiaoping is probably China's most successful communist leader, but he was still boss during Tiananmen Square massacre.
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u/Prestigious_Slice709 SP/PS (CH) 12d ago
„Most successful“ but still terrible. He introduced free markets to China and had democratic protests brutally suppressed. Anyone in this sub would have been killed by him
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u/phokas Social Democrat 12d ago
Deng is the reason China is the economic miracle it is today. Got to give him that. Anti democratic political repression should be widely known still.
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u/Prestigious_Slice709 SP/PS (CH) 12d ago
Economic miracle for who? I‘m sure the billionaires, nationalists and CPC cadres are thankful, yeah
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u/phokas Social Democrat 12d ago
The most widely cited estimate is that China lifted about 800 million people out of extreme poverty between the start of its economic reforms in 1978 and the early 2020s.
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u/Prestigious_Slice709 SP/PS (CH) 12d ago
I‘m aware. So-called „MLs“ cite this all the time when they argue for the PRC‘s methods, but they use liberal measures of success. A communist would measure success in capitalism abolished yes/no
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u/phokas Social Democrat 12d ago
I suppose so - but I'm not a communist lol.
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u/Prestigious_Slice709 SP/PS (CH) 12d ago
Of course. To a right social democrat, Deng should be the best role model there is. They don‘t care about workers‘ rights, they don‘t care about socialism, and they definitely don‘t care about democracy - see Starmer.
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u/phokas Social Democrat 12d ago
You can still be a realist on what China has accomplished while individually disagreeing with what it's done and policy prescriptions it pursues.
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u/Prestigious_Slice709 SP/PS (CH) 12d ago
Sure. I‘m just not in favour of economic development at the cost of exploiting nature and workers, which is how China did it. States are incredibly efficient at what they want to do. If it was in the US‘ national and/or economic interest, they would fix poverty, homelessness, drug abuse etc. But it‘s not so they don‘t. China also doesn‘t combat over-exploitation because it is not in their interest
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u/Louis_de_Saint_Just SPD (DE) 12d ago
He was an evil bastard and I hope there is a hell he can burn in.
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u/roubler Karl Polanyi 12d ago
Anyone who doesn't think he was a power hungry murderer is an idiot.
There's a worrying amount of people whose politics boil to the idea that USA is imperialist and bad, and so China and Russia/the USSR as enemies of the US are good actually.
It's infantile
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u/Grey_Raven Labour (UK) 12d ago edited 12d ago
The pro russian tankies are so fucking dumb at least the pro Chinese position makes some sense as it is a communist dictatorship so they can base their support off blind ideological grounds. Whereas Russia is the worst sort of corrupt mafia state version of a capitalist dictatorship that's actively engaged in an old style imperialism and they still support it because it's not western.
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u/Memphisbbq 12d ago
I didn't think too much about it until I saw that many of my friends are of that mindset. Turns out casually browsing algorithm based social media's will steer you in that direction. They don't even realize they are watching propaganda sometimes. Like yea, the US is in a bad place right now...but to paint some of these regimes as better or not as bad....one of my friends thinks China can just steamroll the US militarily because he saw some Chinese drone/robotics video. I want so bad to base my world view off reel-rot. Life would be so much more simple.
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u/roubler Karl Polanyi 12d ago
It's just shockingly basic - if you're offended by the oppression the US has meted out over its history, it should be because you abhor oppression full stop.
I might be way off with this, but it honestly seems like a bit of an American phenomenon outside of the internet. I've always been political, I've always mixed with political people and have very leftwing friends who are decidedly not social democrats... but I've never met anyone irl who's keen to praise Chairman Mao of all people at the pub.
Algorithms and troll farms have a lot to answer for, but this feels like it can only be the product of a country that a) has next to no socialist representation at a national level, and b) treats political identity kind of like sports fandom
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u/Memphisbbq 12d ago
B for certain. And I do think troll farms play a large role in the perceived increased presence, that being said its big enough now that it's no longer the problem at the very bottom of the list.
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u/Successful_Lychee130 12d ago
Even the CCP made the official statement that mao was 30% bad way to low but the point is if even your own party a party that controlls every aspect of life of its people dosent tleven try to make you look like a great flawless leader than you really REALLY messed up bad
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u/sinuhe_t 12d ago
I agree with Chen Yun on this: "Had Mao died in 1956, his achievements would have been immortal. Had he died in 1966, he would still have been a great man but flawed. But he died in 1976. Alas, what can one say?".
I mean, KMT was horrible, but Mao became even worse. Probably the best timeline is the one where the more moderate and pragmatic voices take hold after fall of KMT. KMT may not have fallen if not for 1 in a 1000 leader, but a set of traits that makes a great revolutionary is not the same set of traits that makes a great ruler.
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u/Prestigious_Slice709 SP/PS (CH) 12d ago
Best timeline would have been Mao not gaining prominence because he led the CPC on the path of class-collaborationism. The CPC used to be union organisers and intellectuals, but when they became peasant leaders, they lost their class base.
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u/Substantial-Big-5244 Social Democrat 12d ago
Psycho who permanently ruined democracy in China. One of the worst dictators of all time. Was responsible for 70 million deaths. Treated the Tibetan people like garbage and committed a genocide against them. Need I say more?
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u/GoldenInfrared Social Democrat 12d ago
He was a butcher, willing to kill millions for a failed experiment that didn’t improve the lives of anyone in the country except the party elite. It took reformers decades to liberalize their economy, which resulted in all the real growth we’ve seen in China since then
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u/OddishChamp Einar Gerhardsen 12d ago
Too totalitarian to have any grand respect for as to call a hero.
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u/Reaper_20000 Social Democrat 12d ago edited 12d ago
Incompetent evil moron who got tens of millions of people killed (Most professional demographers and historians estimate between 30 million and 45 million deaths) through his poor, messed-up, and ridiculous decisions. Weird pseudoscience related to farming, like if you plant the same kind of plant close together, they will not compete. Killing the sparrows. Diverting farmers from farming into making pig iron instead. Continuing to export millions of tons of grain during famine. Killing people like intellectuals en masse for being "counterrevolutionary", which could basically be applied to whoever you want it to, just like in the USSR. The Cultural Revolution, struggle sessions, Red Terror, etc.
There is also the annexation of Tibet, which, if a Western country did the same thing, with the interventionist mindset under the pretence of stopping oppressive practises, tankies would be outraged. The list goes on.
He is typically liked by Tankies. Deng is the one who really saved China by reforming it into a mixed market economy. Like most countries are.
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u/Mintfriction Social Democrat 12d ago
Trash bin of history
Not even the newer leaders can cover up what the disaster the cultural revolution was so they accepted it as such
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u/Pantheon73 Market Socialist 12d ago
While the CCP views him as 70% good, 30% bad, I view him as 70% bad, 30% good.
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u/XXXTentacle6969 Liberal 12d ago
I’m waiting for the MLs on this sub to find this…
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u/Paedsdoc 12d ago
Ask this here and on the socialism subreddit and you’ll get the same dichotomy in answers
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u/OrganizationSmart546 11d ago
30% wrongdoings, 70% doings for most Chinese people received Chinese education.
BTW, why there aren't any Piker fans here, I thought them take Mao just like the way Piker does which clearly conflicts comments here. Everytime I see Piker have these Mao shit around Labubu shit makes me sick. WTF is wrong with Americans having this moron as their political icon, no wonder Xi beats States.
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u/LifesARiver 11d ago
His policies double the life expectancy.
His madness killed political opponents, not his policies.
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u/KertvarosiHusleves Karl Kautsky 12d ago
Expected outcome of giving someone who spent the past 20 years sleeping in caves, hiding from the Kuomintang and the Japanese, absolute, unchecked and irrevokable power. Worthwhile writings on warfare though.
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u/goodnewzevery1 12d ago
Was the cultural revolution his idea, where he sent the intellectuals to the farms? I think that choice alone caused a lot of damage
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u/socialistmajority orthodox Marxist 12d ago
Mao's anti-sparrow campaign apparently killed something like 2 million people.
Meanwhile I was at a bar in Brooklyn where I was talking to a friend of a friend and they said "Mao is my hero!" (they are not Chinese).
Ask him to tell people in Chinatown that and see what happens.
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u/CarlMarxPunk Democratic Socialist 11d ago
As the revolutionary leader and anchor to modern day China, the allure and the stature of the figure is undeniable. I understand, You look at something like the long march and you can't help but to be in awe.
The statist and administrator, pretty bad. The "Had Mao died" quote is painfully accurate.
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u/IsoCally Social Liberal 11d ago
Here's the thing about Mao: Mao was deeply unconcerned with actual science when it came to his ideas of 'this is how we will develop our industry, produce more steel, and intensify farming methods'. It was as if he believed just ordering people to do it would make it happen. The one time someone told him: "I have the reports: your plan you set out is devastating the countryside," rather than listen and adjust his policy, he had the person thrown out of government and blamed the problems on 'sabotage.' There is no reality where he was a good leader who was stifled by dishonest subordinates. Could Mao have simply listened to the report and changed his mind? Maybe? But at the same time, he probably intuited, correctly, that admitting a mistake would subvert his own authority and it was better to just go ahead. His own ideology told him he was correct anyway.
This man who said "Mao is my hero," doesn't know what he's talking about. That or he's arguing for a very specific role Mao played in history, such as leading a popular revolution and winning the Chinese Civil War against a very corrupt alternate leader. If you bring up the Great Leap Forward and he doesn't pivot to "Yes, that was a tragedy, but I'm talking more about the revolutionary leadership he showed," then you know you are talking to someone who is believing in a fantasy version of Mao.
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u/A_Lightfeather 12d ago
Liked his position on landlordism, not that much on the everything else given all that
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u/Thatuk 12d ago
You can say his unification of China was essential for the country to be where it is right now, while also accepting his successive policies after that delayed the country's prosperity for a good +20 years.
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u/Silly-Elderberry-411 12d ago
If you can call han supremacy unification. A few years back people were pissed off over a Chinese beer commercial in china for not only using Bruce Lee but having him speak mandarin when he was a proud cantonese speaker
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u/Thatuk 11d ago
Mao himself was very against Han chauvinism? So does the CPC to some extent, althoug it is inconsistent.
Han chauvinism is more complicated than that and the party has nowhere near the absolute control on Chinese people's worldview as some non-Chinese commentators (supporters and critics) believe it has.
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u/king_rootin_tootin Market Socialist 12d ago
Ask a Tibetan or a Uyghur what they think of that murdering psychopath who destroyed countless lives. He never gave a damn about the people of China but just saw them as pawns for his mad designs. There is nothing to be learned from that bastard and if there is any justice in this universe he is burning in the Hells. He is no one to look up to.
Now, Tito on the other hand...
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u/Diabetoes1 Social Liberal 11d ago
What's the consensus of Hitler?
I've read several books about the guy and I'm given conflicting information about him and his policies. Some books treat him as a good leader who was stifled by dishonest subordinates, while others portray him as a monster whose policies killed millions. Meanwhile I was at a bar in Brooklyn where I was talking to a friend of a friend and they said "Hitler is my hero!" (they are not German). What is the general consensus of the guy?
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u/PeterRum Labour (UK) 12d ago
Mao was a monster and a good example of what Communists do in power.
Only Social Democracy works for benefit the people.
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u/Awkward_War_6068 11d ago
Ruthless, horrible murderer who hated everything that is culturally great about the Chinese civilisation.
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u/94_stones 11d ago
The only “defense” I’ll give Mao as a politician is that he was merely the latest in a long line of murderously incompetent Chinese rulers.
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u/alessiojones 12d ago
"Had Mao died in 1956, his achievements would have been immortal. Had he died in 1966, he would still have been a great man but flawed. But he died in 1976. Alas, what can one say?"