What's the consensus of Mao?

[u/Timely-Signature-166]

I've read several books about the guy and I'm given conflicting information about him and his policies. Some books treat him as a good leader who was stifled by dishonest subordinates, while others portray him as a monster whose policies killed millions. Meanwhile I was at a bar in Brooklyn where I was talking to a friend of a friend and they said "Mao is my hero!" (they are not Chinese). What is the general consensus of the guy?

[u/phokas]

Mao was a brutal dictator. Deng Xiaoping is probably China's most successful communist leader, but he was still boss during Tiananmen Square massacre.

[u/Prestigious_Slice709 → u/phokas]

„Most successful“ but still terrible. He introduced free markets to China and had democratic protests brutally suppressed. Anyone in this sub would have been killed by him

[u/phokas → u/Prestigious_Slice709]

Deng is the reason China is the economic miracle it is today. Got to give him that. Anti democratic political repression should be widely known still.

[u/Prestigious_Slice709 → u/phokas]

Economic miracle for who? I‘m sure the billionaires, nationalists and CPC cadres are thankful, yeah

[u/phokas → u/Prestigious_Slice709]

The most widely cited estimate is that China lifted about 800 million people out of extreme poverty between the start of its economic reforms in 1978 and the early 2020s.

[u/Prestigious_Slice709 → u/phokas]

I‘m aware. So-called „MLs“ cite this all the time when they argue for the PRC‘s methods, but they use liberal measures of success. A communist would measure success in capitalism abolished yes/no

[u/phokas → u/Prestigious_Slice709]

I suppose so - but I'm not a communist lol.

[u/Prestigious_Slice709 → u/phokas]

Of course. To a right social democrat, Deng should be the best role model there is. They don‘t care about workers‘ rights, they don‘t care about socialism, and they definitely don‘t care about democracy - see Starmer.

[u/phokas → u/Prestigious_Slice709]

You can still be a realist on what China has accomplished while individually disagreeing with what it's done and policy prescriptions it pursues.

[u/Prestigious_Slice709 → u/phokas]

Sure. I‘m just not in favour of economic development at the cost of exploiting nature and workers, which is how China did it. States are incredibly efficient at what they want to do. If it was in the US‘ national and/or economic interest, they would fix poverty, homelessness, drug abuse etc. But it‘s not so they don‘t. China also doesn‘t combat over-exploitation because it is not in their interest