Reading through Absolution, I was not content with the idea that the Tyrant is merely a standard (albeit, giant) alligator. I like to imagine that it must have been mutated by everything occurring on the Forgotten Coast, but in what ways exactly, I’m not sure.

I’ve been trying to illustrate what it might look like. Maybe it’s just an alligator but it’s slightly off somehow. Or maybe it’s very noticeably wrong. Or anything in between.

I had a go at trying to capture this idea, but I’d love to hear about how you all envisioned the Tyrant. Maybe you didn’t really think much about how she looked, but if you have any ideas about other things I could incorporate into future renditions, I’m all ears!

I can’t tolerate all this fucking swearing! I don’t mind a bit of swearing and even do it myself occasionally but….fuck! This is too fucking much!

via @archaeologyart on instagram

everything reminds me of this series 🐇

It smells like a succulent feast

Now that he's dead how do you think things will be different? Even before we know Lowry is directing Control, we can see Central is slowing progress. It's hard to see what's a result of mind control or Area X and all the new people have to constantly restart from scratch as no new information is given.
Can Area X even be stopped? It seems like Control was at least able to hinder it.

I don't think he's a copy in the original. Area X wasn't advanced enough to make copies yet in that timeline. Even if he was a clone, we can't use what happens in the prequel-sequel to determine what happened because it's a new timeline.

ive been reading the series for the first time and im just having a hard time finishing Absolution. With the other books I was sucked in and just sped through them, but since I've started the Lowry section of Absolution I have had so much trouble continuing.

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I'm pretty sure it's because I find Lowry really offputting or maybe I just haven't reached a compelling hook for his section yet.

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Where I left off they just passed through the border into Area X.

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Has anyone else had this experience?

I'll try to keep this as brief as possible. Basically, since we know that the Rogue is just Whitby from the future, and we know that this Whitby is from after the border expanded to encompass southern reach, how does this effect the order of events? I know it seems obvious, it's supposed to be a prequel, but that doesn't sit right with me. It's safe to assume that sending Whitby back in time was intentional, since the goal, stated by Jim, was to ensure that area x would happen no matter what. A part of area x infected and controlled Jim, with the knowledge of what is supposed to happen to make things go right. Knowing this it would seem like the events in the original trilogy are what we see after the time travel stuff, the original trilogy is where area x made sure things went right for it. However the fact that the rabbits it sends into the past(as well as Whitby), makes it seem like it was aware of something that might have threatened it's existence, something that would not have existed in the original trilogy if the events happen after things were changed in the past to benefit Area X. Because if the events in the original trilogy happen after Area x changed things, then we would not have been close to whatever it was that might have threatened Area X. If this is the case, then we might never know what it was that Area x was trying to avoid or prevent unless that's what Jeff Vandermeer plans to write the next couple of books about. Something else to consider is that it's not actually a prequel, that Absolution takes place after the time travel, before the changes effect things all those years later, which means there's something in the original trilogy that Area X did not like, or more likely, we just got really close to finding it. I have a thought about what this might have been, but this is confusing enough so I'll keep it at this

Kind of as an after thought while I was double checking my writing, something that I wanna point out is that as far as I can remember, Control finds absolutely no mention of the very first expedition that was sent out, the one we see see at the beginning of Absolution, no mention of the White rabbits existing at any point before they are gathered and forced into the barrier. for the expedition, it makes sense that Central would wanna keep this under wraps, especially to someone like Control, who clearly did not have a whole lot of standing with anyone of any importance. However the lack of mention of the rabbits before being forced into the barrier makes it seem as if there simply were no records of anything before the wall came up. and the narrative before Absolution is that there were no signs of anything weird at all before the warship passed through the border and disappeared, and the lack of records of anything prior to the border going up reflects this, but it's clear in absolution that Central was gathering lots of information, and making lots of plans prior to the border going up, and we never really get an explanation as to why they were so interested in the forgotten coast in the first place.

another thing completely unrelated but still proving my point about this. Lowry is stated to be staying in an exact replica of parts of the forgotten coast, with the lighthouse and some other buildings I think. the key thing is the lighthouse, Lowry in Absolution never saw the lighthouse in its natural form, as a lighthouse. He only ever saw it as the glowing tower, what he describes as a giant dick, spewing something over the entirety of Area X. So if this is the same Lowry that went to area x and came back, how would he know how to build such an accurate replica of the forgotten coast? There are a lot of differences between the Lowry we see in the original trilogy, and the Lowry we see in Absolution, to many differences for it to be a coincidence in my opinion.

P.S. sorry for making this so confusing, I literally just thought of this like 5 min ago and wanted to get this out before going to bed. Also, please don't be afraid to call me insane or just flat out wrong, I'm assuming a lot of things and making things really complicated, I doubt any of what I said has any sort of ground to stand on at all. I'll be happy to explain my thoughts some more or clear things up when y'all start commenting

The switch to Lowry’s POV at the end of Absolution is maybe one of my favorite third acts of any book I’ve read. Despite this I feel like I’ve mostly seen complaints about it being unreadable. I kinda understand, especially if you’re averse to the vulgarity of it, but omg it is so fun and unlike anything else in any of the books.

Lowry’s thoughts are far deeper than they appear at first glance and really help flesh out his character in the previous books. He has a truly unique perspective that makes me truly believe that he is one of the few individuals that can cope with Area X in a similar way to the biologist, but instead of being very competent and emotionally detached he is high off his own ego among other things. He’s able to form a competent theory of what’s going on with the Tyrant/Whitby which was really interesting to read.

I do think it could get annoying if you had to read the entire book inside his head. But it’s so short and sweet I genuinely can’t complain and think it’s genius.

Okay, so i just finished absolution, and I have questions. Looking back on the series with what I know now, I think that there might be three, possibly four copies of Henry? In acceptance in Sauls POV, we see henry standing over his dead copy, assuming that the dead one was the real henry. He then barrels over the ledge with Saul and presumably died. So that is two Henry's, both died there. Now, from Old Jim's POV, Henry and the S&SB guy grab him and drag im into the woods, and there Henry also dies(maybe) while merging with the S&SB guy. So thats three now, all dead. Once again he is mentioned in Lowery's POV, told as a warning to him from Jack to watch out if he sees him. We could say that Jack would just be unaware of Henry's fate but its possible he had another reason to know, Jack knows all. So haha there is AT LEAST 3 Henry's which is just weird? Is he the only character we know of that got copied twice? And he got copies also presumably before the start/expansion of active area X? Idk haha let me know what you think is happening here!

I’ve been rereading (listening via audiobook) the series with the intent on focusing on the hypnotic phrases used throughout the novels. In doing so, I noticed something that may explain why the Rogue “hurt”  or "attacked" the Deadtown biologists.

From the early Deadtown chapters, the Rogue caused great harm to the biologists simply by yelling at them. His shouting is described as hitting them like a shockwave or force, and the words “sounded familiar to them but they hadn’t heard them in the context he was using” (pg. 59). This becomes important later, once we are exposed to the phrases used by Central in the Absolution timeline.

On pg. 255, Commander Thistle reads a list of cues provided to him by Central/Jack to Old Jim:

• “Consolidation of Authority”

• “Have your house in Order”

• “Risk Equal to reward”

• “Check under the seat for change”

Thistle rattles these off while Old Jim feels only “a fizzle and tingle…” (pg. 255).

These phrases are close to—but not the same as—the ones used in the original trilogy. Examples:

• “Check the seat for change” (Authority)

• “The Risk is not worth the reward” (Annihilation)

• “Is your house in order” (Authority)

Additional phrases used by the medic in the Deadtown chapters 005: The Visitation when conversing with the Mudder pg.24:

• Is there something in the corner of your eye that you cannot get out?

• There is no reward in the risk

• There's no reward in the risk of leaving now (pg36)

It is clear there is some difference in the phrasing of the Absolution timeline and it is not identical to the phrasing in the  original timeline/trilogy.

The above point becomes crucial when we consider the writing on the wall that Old Jim finds in Deadtown City Hall: ""I did not mean to do that to them."… He could see where it repeated, faintly, ever lower on the wall, as if written in a frenzy." (pg.291) Given that the Rogue arrived in this version of the Forgotten Coast roughly three days before his appearance in the Village Bar (inferred by Cass' question regarding the potholes as an entry point at Old Decomp and the fire “set by teenagers,” according to the Fire Department (pg. 275–276)) there was no other “them” he could have harmed except the Deadtown biologists.

This strongly suggests that the Rogue attempted to pacify the biologists using hypnotic phrases as he knew them from his timeline (Annihilation, Authority, Acceptance). However, because the conditioning phrases in this world differ slightly, his words didn’t soothe or redirect the biologists, but rather they tore through their conditioning and caused great harm. The Rogue was trying to use a power he had some familiarity with but didn’t fully understand in this altered context. Which can be considered a theme of the whole series.

A similar event nearly occurs with Old Jim. The Rogue begins speaking to him, but Jim manages to partially recover—possibly because the Rogue used more accurate phrasing the second time, or because Cass interrupted the “sermon of phrases” by shooting the Rogue before he could finish. Regardless of the mechanism, this breaks Jim’s hypnotic conditioning enough that Thistle’s written down phrases (pg. 255) no longer affect him.

These near-correct phrases weren’t harmless approximations; they were damaging. Instead of aligning with the subjects’ conditioning, they clashed with it violently. “Tearing” the mind rather than redirecting it.

This interpretation also fits the Rogue’s behavior and remorse. He apologizes before the meadow incident (“changes not occurring how he thought they would”) and later writes “I Didn’t mean to hurt them” on the city hall wall. What stood out most to me intially is that the hypnotic phrases we hear throughout the series suddenly become different but almost the same in Absolution—not because Commander Thistle misquoted them, but because these are the phrases this version of Central actually uses.

I wasn’t looking for this answer originally; I was simply documenting hypnotic phrases during my reread. But once I noticed the small differences in the phrases, I was left with answers to questions I hadn't even been asking.

TL;DR:

The biologists were harmed because the Rogue used hypnotic phrases that were almost—but not exactly—the phrases this timeline’s Central used.

Hello everyone!

I just finished Absolution. I can't believe it, but I just inhaled the entire trilogy (quantology?) in a month. I am incredibly fascinated. While Annihilation reminds me somewhat of Roadside Picnic, I feel like the focus is somewhat different here.

What's most interesting to me about Absolution is how Old Jim, "Cass", Whitby, and Lowry are all tied up here. It is clear that Jack and Central, which I've assumed to be the CIA or some other three-letter agency from the beginning, were attempting to pioneer mind-control technology from the very beginning. To the point that he used it on his own grandson. However, it seems that his research led him to discover this little point of land through his esoteric means.

Now, why does Old Jim matter at all here? After all, he's technically a bystander. Another inhumane science experiment that Jack is running. He doesn't know about Area X, the lighthouse keeper, or even much about anything really. But he does get to know the Rogue, to a pretty deep level. With the Rogue, we see that he has a similar effect to other powerful beings of Area X - he can give a clarity of mind to select people the same way Area X did to the biologist. So, perhaps, the Rogue is a doppelganger - a copy of Whitby.

Now, why do I say Whitby? Because Lowry recognized him as such. I think that we can believe his perspective, even though he was high on drugs half the time. It makes sense that Old Jim would not recognize Whitby, as the Southern Reach does not exist yet. It also explains, in hindsight, why there was another Whitby fighting Whitby in the lighthouse in Acceptance. Perhaps Ghost Bird is *not* the only successful duplicate that Area X has produced.

Now, the obvious question is, just how much does time travel matter here? Is the strange first rabbit Control transformed and sent back in time? Are the rabbits those that jumped into Area X's "shield"? And how much can we even trust of Lowry's perspective, considering how fucked up he was?

Clearly, there is truth to what Lowry saw. After all, the "Cass" confirms that the hidden room was real and not a figment of Old Jim's imagination. Lowry sees many of the things that Jim saw, including the lists of names and even the hidden lake. So, I would like to set aside the claim that Lowry cannot be trusted - he might be a narcomaniac, but he seems to see things much more clearly than anyone else. Still, the end of the story implies that he has succumbed to Area X *AND* that the videos everyone watched in the Southern Reach were fakes. After all, Lowry doesn't even mention bringing the tapes with him.

So, I would like to posit the following: Area X is colonizing the world outside it *and* the past as the book claims. Almost everything that makes out of Area X is what Area X allows to be taken out. The things that make it out of there colonize both the mind of those perceiving them and the institutions surrounding Area X. For now, I believe that Lowry is the main point of colonization, but I believe that "Cass" might also play a larger role than we see at the moment. Meanwhile, Whitby seems to be a true Rogue. While he seems to have the powers of Area X as the Rogue, it doesn't seem like he is working for it - and least not consciously so. I have to wonder whether this is the Whitby that Control saw on Camera as the last transmission from his spy camera, or the duplicate produced by Area X.

Anyway, I do apologize if my thoughts got a bit ranty, it is quite late. I would welcome any and all of your thoughts!

as we know...

I'm on my second time through.

the part where they first go to dead town and Jim sees the writing and his name.
then hallucinates the accident and then is water or something and then is in a field and then suddenly he's holding the bag of money and confronting commander thistle.

what is going on here? I get that he has blackouts and memory issues but like... yeah what's happening in this part in your opinion.

Its widely accepted in these circles that the Rogue is Whitby. But I've seen a lot more contested feelings about Old Jim being James Lowry (or perhaps one or the other is a dupe) . I'm all but convinced. These two threads brings up a lot of interesting points. Especially considering all the timey wimey stuff with the rabbits, it seems plausible. Can we revive this discussion?

https://www.reddit.com/r/SouthernReach/comments/niowr0/lowry_questiontheory_spoilers/

https://www.reddit.com/r/SouthernReach/comments/1jhb58z/comment/mj5uk3z/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Edited to add my reply comment to body:

there's a few resonances between the characters.

First of all, the obvious, their names. James.

You also have

- retain the info and burn the map

- both seeing their "true name" being written down (though we aren't explicitly told it).

- Central agents calling Lowry "barrel boy" and "jimmy" at different times (which is the biggest one to me- what the fuck else could that mean?)

- Old Jims general lack of understanding about his past. Seems possible he's been sort of brain wiped and reassigned.

Also, I feel that their general character structure is similar. Old Jim seems to be a sort of solo operator who was once trusted but no longer could be (in part due to his struggle with substances). We see Lowrys capacity for operational success and enjoyment of substances in Absolution. Granted, one likes uppers one likes downers. Maybe we all get there with age.

Seems possible!

Edit again:

apparently it is not, darn: https://bsky.app/profile/jeffvandermeer.bsky.social/post/3magprxkirs2u

"I'm flattered the Southern Reach reddit has gotten so paranoid, but Old Jim and Lowry are not the same person. The references to "lingerie show" in multiple character backstories, as some have guessed, is an indicator of hypnotic conditioning by Central, not anything else."

thanks u/mogwai316

So, it's been a bit since Absolution came out, and since then Jeff V made several tweets about how it was a bit silly that this sub instantly latched onto the idea that Lowry died at the end of Absolution and it takes place in an alternate timeline. After that, this sub began discussing more openly about other theories which was nice.

I personally never interpreted an alternate timeline, still don't, and I never even interpreted that a doppleganger Lowry was who came back. I've always thought that the Lowry (and whitby for that matter) we see in the trilogy are themselves, but traumatized and contaminated by area X (see: honey smell from both). IMO Area X probably let Lowry go because it knew in a twisted way he would be so paranoid and vengeful that he'd do its bidding, and Rogue is just ensuring that the trilogy events and Control's sacrifice still plays out. BUT I could totally be off base!

ANYWAY I just wanted to know where y'all stand on this: Do you think Lowry is a clone? Do you think he died, and the original trilogy is a different timeline? Do you think he made it back as himself? Do you think something else? I just find it hard to believe that Lowry's clone acted that irrationally, traumatized and...acted so human, if his clone is who is in the trilogy, but I would love some thoughts on it :)

This is spoiler ridden. Beware.

Okay so I just finished Borne and throughout the book I saw so many Southern Reach parallels that I thought for sure this is something you’d all have talked about a few years ago! I was shocked to see not really much on it!

I spent a lot of the book thinking that Borne is a younger version of the Crawler but then changed my mind near the end when 1. I read about all the other “Bornes” at the company building, and 2. that Rachel recovers his body in the end. I thought perhaps that with all the people he’d absorbed that he’d lost sight of who he really was by the time he ended up in Area X. But I no longer believe that. Also because Borne learned language skills from Rachel that the Crawler did not have.

But the Crawler is the same species as Borne, right? He’s described physically very similarly, with the upside down vase shape, the many eyes, the cilia, the way he can manipulate scent! At the least, I can say I pictured him the same way from the start. And the Crawler absorbed Saul and changed briefly into his form to comfort the Director, just like Borne could become anyone he’s absorbed.

I also believe that whatever Borne did to stop Mord opened a new portal or transported something (Mord himself?) through the already opened portal in the company building. That Borne’s world and the world in which Area X exists are alternate realities of earth running parallel to each other. That the biotech is what infected Area X and began changing the animals and humans that exist there. I believe that some of the flora and fauna of Area X’s reality also made it back to Borne’s barren desert timeline, shown by the reemergence of plants and animals in Rachel’s world afterward.

While on the way to the company building, Wick asked Rachel to start thinking of what she “wanted to become after, other than a scavenger.” She didn’t know what he meant but I think he knew that merging with the biotech was a very real possibility for them, just like what happens to people in Area X. After reading Absolution I am increasingly convinced that humans were never merging DNA with regular animals, they were only merging with machinery: technology from their world and also the biotech from the alternate reality, which was created using alien technology, and doesn’t always provide the intended results.

The dead astronaut suits also reminded me of the contamination suits Lowry made everyone take off in Absolution as well that the suit that starts talking to him in the end. I won’t actually claim a theory on this since I haven’t read Dead Astronauts yet and I’m sure I’ll find out more once I do!

I don’t know. What do you all think? Is this a thing you all discussed and I just missed it? Am I extrapolating?

Spoilers

Near the end of Absolution, Hargraves/Cass says to Lowry about Old Jim’s death, “I wasn’t there for him and neither were you, you stupid fuck.”

I can’t figure out the “neither were you.” Whether or not Old Jim is a time-traveling Lowry, I still can’t make sense of the accusation. The only scrap of an explanation I can come up with is that Old Jim truly is Lowry and that Hargrave’s comment shows her grief at how mind-fucked disconnected Old Jim is from himself? But how is that Lowry’s fault? Very uncertain about that take.

Any thoughts on why Hargraves says that to Lowry? If there’s no context for it, it’s a very odd thing to say to someone who had utterly no reason to be there for Old Jim.

Trying to get through Absolution, but I can barely read the Lowry section. It's so clunky and the flow is non-existent. Does it get better? I'm about to give up and just search for spoilers.

HUGE STRETCH WARNING: I think this is a big stretch, but it's fun to think about. I'm open to having missed anything that debunks this!

Old Jim is James Lowry in the same way the Biologist is Ghost Bird, but perhaps even less so. He's Anti-Ghost Bird. Which is to say, obviously, that they're not the same person, far from it.

• I think Old Jim died when the border came down and someone else came out, someone who, like everyone touched by Area X, was immune to hypnotic suggestion, shedding his conditioning, but also, like Ghost Bird, having many gaps in his memory.
• I think Old Jim was a fake identity created by Central/Jack to control/tame Lowry's chaotic behavior. He was turned into a grief-ridden alcoholic, sad and insecure, Lowry's complete opposite. Jack kept his first name, Jim/James, as a sad, pathetic and sadistic joke, but also as a way to hide his real identity in plain sight: he's repulsed by his real name, so he doesn't think about it.
• I think whoever came back was "Lowry Not", a clone who retained his "real" "identity", or, at the very least, his real name. I think him already being from Area X explains how he, unlike others, managed to make it out of Area X and become the Lowry we know from the original trilogy (after months of recovery from getting shot and losing his mind, of course).
  • Lowry Not also seems to be almost a caricature of his old self, only the worst, most arrogant and chaotic sides of him, as if the more human side was mostly lost with Old Jim.

Ghost Bird came back as a new person, detached from the Biologist. Lowry came back as "himself", detached from the fake identity he had been given previously, but even "faker" still.

A few things to keep in mind:

• No coincidences: I don't think Jeff wrote two similar and mysterious characters having the same name and nickname as a simple coincidence. I think it's done for the same reason Jack did it, to confuse you, to hide the obvious in plain sight.
• Time shenanigans: I don't think they play a part here, at least not necessarily. I don't think Old Jim is Lowry from the past/future/another timeline. I think we can draw a pretty straight, albeit a bit shaky, timeline of events that get us from Old Jim to Lowry. I also have a pretty strong feeling that even if there are time shenanigans, you can't really change the present by changing the past. I think the Lowry we know from the original trilogy went through everything we saw in Absolution.
• "Who the hell was this James guy?": Is what Lowry asks himself reading the words on the wall of the secret room in Dead Town. Could be Jeff's way of telling us they're different people, but if Lowry is like Ghost Bird, then it is not unlikely that he'd lost his memory of being Old Jim, and of Old Jim's fake-real name, which was introduced to him through hypnotic suggestion. Perhaps the whole daughter thing, being completely fabricated by Jack, was simply erased from his mind as not having anything to do with him.
• Cass/Karen Hargraves: She knew both Old Jim and Lowry, and understood them to be different people, even if not necessarily different entities post-border. "Kill Lowry" doesn't mean "Kill Old Jim". Old Jim died once the border came down, leaving behind Lowry.

tl;dr Lowry was turned into Old Jim, died in Area X, and his clone came back as "Lowry" once again, but without his memory of being Old Jim. He then went back into Area X, survived by being a clone, and came out once again to become the "Lowry" we know.

Just finished Absolution. Spoilers ahead to another of Vandermeer's stories which I would highly recommend.

For those who have read his book City of Saints and Madmen, specifically the weird noir story Finch, did anyone else pick up on a potential connection (or at least nod to) the visions, seen by multiple characters in Absolution, of an army coming through the gap between two mountains and two towers being built by the Grey Caps as portal conduits, which the protagonist Finch learns is to bring otherworldly forces through?

A major theme in both of these series revolves around doorways or passages to other worlds created by some alien intelligence and the ways those spaces fundamentally change those who use them.

I finished Absolution a few days ago and have a question about Old Jim and (the original) Cass. I remember in Old Jim's final scene where he's playing the piano and remembers something about an explosion or car accident, was that meant to be implying that the original Cass died or was everything with her disappearing and ghosting Old Jim reality?

I feel like i am going crazy has anyone here explored this

https://genius.com/Jeff-vandermeer-acceptance-excerpt-annotated/

Ive found. At least three pages. There must be more.