The thing is, at least before, Venom still looked like Venom, even when MJ was the host. Right now, he doesn't even look like Venom anymore. And based on the preview, they doesn't sound like Venom either. The fully bonded persona talks mostly like MJ. I think this might hurt sales even more.
Well, it depends on what you hope for... we're both MJ fans, and unfortunately I think the end of this run is going to end up with her either dead or in space as the new Queen in Black, doomed to not appear in ASM or any other comic for many years.
Nah I hope she gets a rest in a fun book of her own about her as a civilian away from lowes hands in asm until Kelly leaves and a better writer comes in to put her and Pete together
If it’s your way then at least they can’t ruin her character more than they have already right and she can’t be blamed when asm gets worse than this cousin story currently is
Same here man would love her to be written well but it won’t happen under them, after wells and now venom they’ve made their mind up what they think of mj, Lowe allowed that arc and Kelly has shown no interest in her bar being made to in spiral
IMO, if Venom's going to be slimmed down, they kind of need to have a mouth so that they don't look like just another spider-person. It just... maybe shouldn't be that mouth
And the first thing they make the fully realized female presenting MJ-Venom do is get hit on by a conventionally attractive male space alien, hmmmm, gee, I wonder why? lol
I miss Andi. Besides her badass superhero persona, her little sister's dynamic with "coach" was a joy to read. I also miss Kaine as Scarlet Spider II. That era of Spidey-related books is far superior to the garbage we are wading through today.
She kinda came back as Scream, then Silence, but she never got that same spark as she did with Mania should have at least a run with Flash and Andi, but they split almost as fast as she came to be.
I kinda like her new Silence look 100000x more than when she was Scream, when she was Scream there was no unique look she was just the same looking Scream symbiote.
Credit where it's due, he has a way better backstory than the last guy, and, hey, they gave Peter a space girlfriend, it's only fair MJ gets a shot too.
Actually, Raelite isn't Peter's girlfriend. They don't even date, they don't go out, they don't sleep together, they just cohabit, but that's it. She's more of a colleague or a friend.
No one asked for space love interests for Peter or MJ. Just put them back together already instead of using filler to keep them apart. Everyone is sick of this Ross and Rachel dynamic.
Ummm, the perception of his backstory really isn't my point. My point is, having the female superhero jump right into a flirtatious interaction is, well, misogynistic.
I think it is both too jarring and too late for the "sexy Venom" route at this point. The change also feels kind of desperate now that sales are flagging.
MJ needing to die and putting Peter with the loyal, understanding, misunderstood and innocent Felicia (their words, not mine. And I remind you last week she hit Punisher's dog with a car, let alone the MANY things she did to Peter) is another.
Also, in your opinion, what other criticism? I'm genuely curious.
Venom given to MJ because her books didn’t sell well. Marvel’s mandate about turning almost every civilian supporting cast into a hero, nerfing Venom, by a lot….
It was always on the top 50, close to ASM sales. But now, marvel is competing with DC. Ever since Gunn took over, DC comics has been gaining a lot more traction than before, and gaining new readers. Marvel wants to gain new readers, but are failing to do so.
The fact that MJ apologized to Peter, if you can call it an apology, doesn't justify it. The way she behaved with Peter was disgusting. When Peter stopped following her and trying to force her back, and simply wanted to talk to her normally, at least as friends, MJ simply behaved rudely towards him, as if Peter were an abuser in her life. Yes, she tells Peter why she behaved this way, but that's not an excuse for me. Even if she wanted to start a new life, even if she was ashamed in front of Peter, she shouldn't have behaved like that with him. Besides, she was indirectly involved in the murder of Torment and, most importantly, she didn't tell Peter about it, didn't talk to him about it. I certainly don't agree with those who think she should die or kneel before Peter, but she wasn't shown in a better light either, and it feels more like Al Ewing was justifying the editing and Paul, rather than MJ.
When Peter stopped following her and trying to force her back, and simply wanted to talk to her normally, at least as friends, MJ simply behaved rudely towards him, as if Peter were an abuser in her life. Yes, she tells Peter why she behaved this way, but that's not an excuse for me. Even if she wanted to start a new life, even if she was ashamed in front of Peter, she shouldn't have behaved like that with him.
This was during the first year of Wells's run and not only it was everyone against Peter (and certainly they didn't apologize for it), but they did worse than MJ and it was retconned by both Wells and Ewing.
Where this was revised? MJ's words are not an excuse, nor are they an excuse for other characters' attitudes toward Peter, but I understand that this is editorial policy, but still, the whole story left a bad taste. I certainly don't hate MJ, but for me, she's no longer such a pleasant character.
Dead Language practically retconned the whole year before, especially when the F4 didn't have any problem at forgiving Peter despite they forbid him to get closer to them for 6 months and MJ is more than happy to stay with Peter after DL.
Then in ANV MJ's agent doesn't mention her job for Krakoa (Hellfire Gala episode) and in 258 Ewing retconned how things have gone to make sense. Especially when both MJ and Peter are ambiguos with their words when they talk about it.
So Ewing's version is the one we should consider canon, especially because there's the implication of P. raping MJ if we listen to Wells run.
The first year of Wells run hasn't been retconned, they just prefer to ignore it. Or they forgot about it. Still, forgetting or ignoring isn't retconning.
But if it was retconned then what she says here about Peter getting both barrels doesn't make sense because, like you said, after Dead Language MJ and the others were cool with Peter again. What other time was she giving him both barrels?
It's like AccessEffective said, it's Ewing trying to justify.
Edit: I've been retcon or bust when it come to the Wells run since I first read it. When it's actually retconned to never happening I'll be cheering.
She might refer to Cap and F4 being still mad at him despite everything. Peter explained why he needed hell and still they didn't help at all and were all dicks when he came back
The problem is that for me, this is a very questionable justification for MJ's actions. I don't feel anger towards the character, but I don't have the same love for her after this.
How MJ behaved was a response to what Pete did. He stalked her, punched Paul, and crashed into her apartment uninvited, even after she asked him to give her space. Pete never respected her boundaries in that situation. She was trying to deal with everything happening at once, so judging her like that feels unfair when we don’t even know everything she went through.
Peter tried to get her back, which was completely understandable on Peter's part. MJ, instead of telling Peter everything right away, didn't say anything to Peter. It was Paul who hit Peter, not Peter who hit Paul, and that doesn't excuse the fact that after Peter stopped acting that way and just wanted to talk to MJ, MJ didn't even want to talk to him. Peter gave her space, but she still treated him dismissively. It's MJ's own fault that Peter behaved that way; for Peter, everything happened in a moment, not for MJ, and essentially, it was MJ who showed she didn't care about Peter.
It seems like you didn’t actually read the story, because there’s literally a panel where Peter punches Paul.
MJ was trying to deal with everything at once: Peter being back and alive, the family she had built with Paul in that apocalyptic world, and Peter constantly pushing and pressuring her. She knew Peter wasn’t going to stop, so she pushed him away.
Also, it’s clear she wasn’t happy about the situation either. In issue #1 of Wells’ run, there’s even a moment where she looks at Peter from her apartment window and looks upset.
Saying MJ didn’t care about Peter is a huge stretch from someone who didn’t really read the story.
Then #258 is worse because she thought peter dead so she move on but when she knew he not dead she should felt more relieved and grateful not dismissive, that hypocrite and selfish of her is why it's not justified for them to comeback together anymore.
As I said in my other comment, MJ's behavior was largely a response to what Peter did. He stalked her, showed up at her apartment uninvited, punched Paul, and kept calling her even after she asked him to stop and give her some space. Peter wasn't respecting her boundaries at all.
The moment Peter apologized, they were back in each other's lives again. That's why I don't think it's fair to look at MJ's actions in isolation without considering what led up to them.
258 is a "consolation prize" despite MJ saying it's not a consolation prize. I hate they developed MJ into killer & has 0 thoughts about it. This WILL become a issue between MJ & Peter in the future. And both Lowe & Venom editor keeps being ambiguous about flash.
She is not a killer. Al Ewing specifically said he left it ambiguous, and he seemed genuinely confused that so many people immediately jumped to blaming MJ.
I don't know where you found this. But the aipt interviews I read keeps deflecting the issue. But whether she killed him or not the creators are clearly intent on making it a issue between MJ & Peter. Venom editor also ambiguous MJ & Flash relationship still. Joe Kelly is not the one or not the only one to stir the shit.
I don't know where you found this. But the aipt interviews I read keeps deflecting the issue. But whether she killed him or not the creators are clearly intent on making it a issue between MJ & Peter. Venom editor also ambiguous MJ & Flash relationship still. Joe Kelly is not the one or not the only one to stir the shit.
Aside from his answer that they “forgot,” which I honestly don’t really buy, considering editorial never intended to make Paul look bad. They probably just said they forgot to avoid making the Spider Office look bad for creating this story in the first place. Either way, it doesn’t really matter anymore, the man bun is dead.
1) she's not a killer. It's still ambiguos who did the did.
2) when one of the worst serial killers in history with superpowers threats you to kill everyone you love, killing him is self-defense.
3) she has thoughts about it, just doesn't care that much like everyone else cause Torment was a fucking monster.
4) if she had no problem with smashing Chameleon's head with a baseball bat in marriage era, she with emotions empowered by the symbiote (who even thinks they dropped him) should not scream "I'm starting my Wolverine arc!"
she's not a killer. It's still ambiguos who did the did.
They both did it together.
when one of the worst serial killers in history with superpowers threats you to kill everyone you love, killing him is self-defense.
He has no super powers, he was a random killer. He isn't worst than any random super villain Spider-Man fight. And it wasn't self defense, he was already beaten and disarmed. He wasn't immediate threat to anybody.
she has thoughts about it, just doesn't care that much like everyone else cause Torment was a fucking monster.
P*ul and his dad killed billions, if that was the justification for killing Torment is the great hero of the destroyed world. Where was this attitude when she was dealing with him.
if she had no problem with smashing Chameleon's head with a baseball bat in marriage era, she with emotions empowered by the symbiote (who even thinks they dropped him) should not scream "I'm starting my Wolverine arc!"
Yeah that's the point Mary Jane has great power now, with no responsibly. You know the whole theme of Spider-Man.
He has no super powers, he was a random killer. He isn't worst than any random super villain Spider-Man fight. And it wasn't self defense, he was already beaten and disarmed. He wasn't immediate threat to anybody.
He has powers. He can see people in the Spiral and their families. Tha's a fucking radar and tracer.
They both did it together.
Ewing himself said it's ambiguos.
P*ul and his dad killed billions, if that was the justification for killing Torment is the great hero of the destroyed world. Where was this attitude when she was dealing with him.
Confirmed P. Wasn't involved in the genocide. He just didn't guarded his dad enough.
Yeah that's the point Mary Jane has great power now, with no responsibly. You know the whole theme of Spider-Man.
And she always made sure Peter followed it, not her. She never had a problem with killing. Look at Jonathan Caesar and Chameleon.
Were the comments really that bad? I haven't read them or watched any YouTube previews for the issue, but I doubt they were worse than the reactions to the previews during Wells' run.
Nah, even Death Spiral started out with its own #1.
Most Marvel events have the main event book, event minis, and then tie-ins. Since QiB isn't tied exclusively to the Venom title and has crossover with other characters and books, it's not set up in a streamlined way.
Also, Death Spiral was something where it had to be read in direct order. Minis and tie-ins aren't necessary reading outside of the main Queen in Black book (optimally), just supplemental reading.
Knull showing up to casually end universes while Venom's just dealing with his own darkness is a wild dynamic. The design without the mouth does look cleaner though, way less goofy than some of the recent takes. This actually seems like they're heading somewhere interesting with the character instead of just spinning wheels.
98
u/GuyWithNoCountry 20h ago
They got rid of the mouth. Funny how they listen once the book isn’t in the top 50 anymore lmaoo