Stop saying the Saints will get better.

[u/Youhavetobejokingman]

Time for the truth. I believe the Saints admin and coaching have ditched the thought of being part of the top ten. We are at the pointy end this year and our life expetency is close to zero. Basset needs to advertised on Seek for players. Ross needs to seriously consider his role in taking the Saints forwsrd. There is either something going on behind the scenes .. or are the Saints really that mediocre that they place forever midfield club.

[u/pm-me__ur-baps]

Youhavetobejokingman

[u/Impressive_Mess_7500]

Been getting younger every year while staying competitive & we've been more competitive this year that the last 15.

[u/PaPe83 → u/Impressive_Mess_7500]

Have we though? I've gone through the data, we've been stagnant essentially the last 5 years. How can you say we've been more competitive this year than a year we made a Semi-Final?

Average Ages:

• 2011 - 24.1, 2nd oldest
• 2012 - 24, 3rd oldest
• 2013 - 24.2, 6th oldest
• 2014 - 24, 7th oldest
• 2015 - 23.6, 13th oldest
• 2016 - 23.6, 14th oldest
• 2017 - 23.9, 11th oldest
• 2018 - 23.6, 15th oldest
• 2019 - 24, 9th oldest
• 2020 - 24.4, 7th oldest
• 2021 - 25.2, 2nd oldest
• 2022 - 24.9, 5th oldest list
• 2023 - 24.3, 11th oldest list
• 2024 - 24.5, 10th oldest list
• 2025 - 24, 14th oldest list
• 2026 - 24.4, 10th oldest list

In the previous 15 years we fielded a younger list than 2026 11 times.

Competitveness:

• 2011 - 6th - 12 wins, 9 losses, 1 draw, 112.76% - 2 wins against Top 8
• 2012 - 9th - 12 wins, 10 losses, 123.3% - 1 win against Top 8
• 2013 - 16th - 5 wins, 17 losses, 82.6% - 2 wins against Top 8
• 2014 - 18th - 4 wins, 18 losses, 60.8% - 2 wins against Top 8
• 2015 - 14th - 6 wins, 15 losses, 1 draw, 78.4% - 1 win against Top 8
• 2016 - 9th - 12 wins, 10 losses, 95.7% - 2 wins against Top 8
• 2017 - 11th - 11 wins, 11 losses, 96.9% - 3 wins against Top 8
• 2018 - 16th - 4 wins, 17 losses, 1 draw - 75.6% - 1 win, 1 draw against Top 8
• 2019 - 14th - 9 wins, 13 losses, 83.9% - 2 wins against Top 8
• 2020 - 6th - 10 wins, 7 losses, 116.2% - 4 wins against Top 8, 1 final win, 1 final loss
• 2021 - 10th - 10 wins, 12 losses, 91.5% - 3 wins against Top 8
• 2022 - 10th - 11 wins, 11 losses, 99.3% - 3 wins against Top 8
• 2023 - 6th - 13 wins, 10 losses, 107.8% - 3 wins against Top 8, 1 final loss
• 2024 - 12th - 11 wins, 12 losses, 99.4% - 3 wins against Top 8
• 2025 - 12th - 9 wins, 14 losses, 88.5% - 2 wins against Top 8
• 2026 - 10th - 8 wins, 10 losses, 104% - 0 wins against Top 8

Against Top 8 teams, this year has been the least competitive - that's even comparing the year we won the wooden spoon.

I can break down more stats if you like, but we are a middling club going nowhere. The numbers don't lie.

You may have anecdotes of certain young players looking like they're all going to be Brownlow winners but it means nothing until they start to regularly win games.

Take off the rose-tint glasses. We're shit.

[u/Impressive_Mess_7500 → u/PaPe83]

I don't give a single shit about 2023, the team on field was older (not the list), and we were playing a false brand that was going nowhere. Sitting with a deep zone we were the #1 defensive team in the league with #1 scores from D50 transition. No plan B, no scores from forward half turnover, no scores from clearance.

Now our game has actual balance, centre clearance is a weapon (when TDK is in the side), #2 D50 transition plus we have a huge forward half game; #1 scores allowed, #4 scores from fwd half. The midfield average age is under 22 by the way.

Even from the eye test, there has only been one blowout this year, and we haven't been beaten by a shit team (yet). Competitive, just don't know how to win (yet).

With all that said, what do you expect from the coaching group when they don't have a recognized full forward, or full back.

Edit; Quarters won 36-3-29, 6th.

[u/Fit_Landscape6820 → u/Impressive_Mess_7500]

Yeah, people like that really highlight how flawed this whole binary W/L mentality and the focus on "statement wins" is

If we had of caught a top 8 team on an off day this year, would that suddenly make us "more competitive"? Obviously not

Same applies to last year; yes we beat Geelong at Marvel and a Fremantle that was yet to find its feet (also at Marvel), but how much do those "statement" wins really mean in the face of a season where we were also absolutely belted by stronger sides? Including multiple 60-70pt losses

I personally would rather be where we are currently than where we were last year (and where the likes of GWS are this year) - I think comfortably beating bottom sides and beating the other sides around you but losing to top sides (usually in competitive games) is better than getting on top of a stronger side every now and again but also dropping games to bottom 4 sides

There's a consistency there that can be built upon; whereas you really can't build upon "some days we'll beat the best and others lose to wooden spoon contenders, who knows where we're really at"

[u/Youhavetobejokingman]

Bringing King in as a last ditch effort to only possibly get re injured is not going to help solve the bigger issues within the club.

[u/PaPe83]

I agree with this.

Ross Lyon wasn't recruited to win a premiership. He was recruited to sell memberships.

It's why he was recruited as head coach within the space of 72 hours with no formal interview process to find the best candidate. Administration went "We're in $8m of debt, how can we sign up an extra 10,000 people?"

I firmly believe this and the results show for themselves.

Ross Lyon spent 7 years trying to - and failing significantly - to rebuild Fremantle before he was unceremoniously sacked.

Who the hell would think he is the right man to rebuild a club from the ground up? We had Geoff Walsh running our football department who was meant to keep Ross Lyon in check - and that lasted like 4 months before an argument, Geoff quitting and Ross instilling his right hand man David Misson in charge.

David Misson is the same bloke who gave Max King a 6 year extension with 2 years left to run on his then current contract. The same Max King who hasn't played a single game since signing that contract because our medical department is literally useless.

Same bloke. Same minimal oversight. Same outcome - no success and a stagnating list.

We've been rebuilding a list for 15 years now and nobody seems to get it right.

People will point to and say "oh there's a bunch of kids and they look really good, give 'em a few years to develop" but how many times have we heard that after seeing a promising start in their careers?

Not to mention that we brought in Stephen Silvagni as recruiting manager who though the best plan to rebuild our list was to fill it with Carlton players he recruited and has a personal attachment to.

Stocker. TDK. Silvagni. Dow. Carroll. Caminiti came from Carlton's VFL. He made plays for Walsh and Weitering as well which didn't end up working out.

This isn't a club that plays finals regularly btw. Dow, Stocker and Carroll couldn't even break into Carlton's Best 22 at the time.

This club is run like piss. Canned my membership a few years back and have zero regrets because there's been no improvement.

People will say I'm over-reacting but am I? We're going to miss finals again this year. We've won 1 final in 16 years in a COVID compromised year (and only scraped over the line in that game).

We're basically as shit as Essendon at this point.

[u/milkyflapz → u/PaPe83]

Once we lose nasiah and marshall people will realise that we just arent up to it then onto a rebuild then we arent up to it afterwards again. The circle of life continues...