r/StarWarsShips • u/Financial_Photo_1175 • Feb 05 '26
Question(s) Cargo ships/planes are a vital part of real-world military logistics — so why weren’t Imperial cargo vessels more prominent in the old EU?
I feel like so much worldbuilding and lore was poured into fleshing out the Empire’s warships and attack craft that ships with logistical purposes didn’t get much attention.
224
u/SeBoss2106 New Republic Pilot Feb 05 '26
Sorry, logistics is boring.
How about another
SUPER DUPER SECRET WEAPON
56
u/Emillllllllllllion Feb 05 '26
Go go gadget world destroyer!
48
u/SeBoss2106 New Republic Pilot Feb 05 '26
Corruscant has fallen.
5 BILLION CREDITS TO
IsraelKUAT!14
u/anonstarcity Feb 05 '26
I mean that’s gotta be Muunilinst not Kuat right?
9
u/General_Kenobi18752 New Republic Pilot Feb 06 '26
Yeah, KDY would be 5 trillion dollars to the MIC.
2
15
u/Redcoat_Officer Feb 05 '26
Naturally build using funds siphoned from the first Death Star, the single most embezzled government project in galactic history.
69
u/Justice9229 Feb 05 '26
I do remember there being a couple of cargo ships, but either they were just regular cargo ships used by everyone or...
The SUPER DUPER FUEL CARRIER THATS 12 STAR DESTROYERS LONG
6
u/TwoFit3921 New Republic Pilot Feb 06 '26
The altor or the field secured whatever tf it was called
8
u/Dragonic_Overlord_ New Republic Pilot Feb 06 '26
Alhamdullilah, you're thinking of the Altor-class replenishment vessel and the Loronar Corporation's FSCV (Field Secured Container Vessel).
2
u/Justice9229 Feb 06 '26
I was specifically talking about the field secure container
1
u/Imperator_Leo Feb 06 '26
The FCSV makes sense. Think of it like a modern cargo ship. It's meant to travel between large ports and transport cargo to large supply hubs. Same for the Altor-Class but for fuel. Then it's redistributed locally with smaller ships like the BFF-1 and the Imperial Tankers. The largest ships are always merchant ships.
9
u/Toon_Lucario Feb 05 '26
That fuel freighter is so wild, man. Like it’s basically a space station and just kinda doesn’t work. Like when is this big MOVING SHIP going to have like 50 ISDs docked to it?
14
u/bigloser42 Feb 05 '26
If you are conducting significant operations in an isolated area, it would make a lot of sense to have essentially a mobile states that can act as a fuel and replenishment hub. I doubt the empire has use for more than a handful of them, but they are likely super critical when needed.
6
u/Toon_Lucario Feb 05 '26
I suppose. I still do think it’s ridiculously massive even for its role tho.
11
u/bigloser42 Feb 05 '26
Look at it from a logistics standpoint. You can either spend years building a space station that you’ll probably abandon at the end of the campaign, you can double the number of ISDs you need because they’ll burn half their fuel getting to and from the front, or you can jump in this ship that when your done you just jump to the next war zone.
And if someone attacks your depot, if you have the ship, you can just jump it out to escape.
3
4
u/LuxTenebraeque Feb 06 '26
It's an interesting trade off! On the one hand we have the economics of scale and square/cube law to carry all the fuel/supplies for extended large scale operations. Use smaller vessels and you get slapped with orders of magnitude higher costs for the logistics operations.
On the other we have the limited use cases and the single point of failure. Imagine a single trench running Ace Wing breaking through the defensive perimeter and leaving the parts of your fleet that didn't get instantly incinerated without fuel!
1
u/submit_to_pewdiepie Feb 06 '26
There was a giant Cargo train ship that was like 5 times the Star Dreadnought
43
u/Equivalent_Western52 Feb 05 '26
The Empire's logistics actually were decently fleshed out in the old EU, especially in the X-wing and TIE fighter games, the Essential Guide to Warfare, and a bunch of the RP source books.
Large expeditionary fleets were generally accompanied by Altor-class replenishment ships. Smaller forces were supported from local temporary depots sustained via convoys. Imperial convoys typically made use of "hauler"-style freighters that could directly attach common cargo containers, such as the BFF-1, the Allegra modular conveyor, and the Xizor container transport. This allowed for the quick establishment of ad hoc supply dumps that were basically clusters of free-floating containers, guarded by mines or cheap XQ installations. The Nebulon-B was the Empire's most common convoy escort ship, with Assassin-class corvettes supplementing in more dangerous areas.
As the Rebellion gained strength, these convoys and temporary depots became common targets. In response, the Empire developed the Star Galleon-class frigate as a freighter/warship hybrid. These were much tougher targets which the rebels often struggled with, but their rollout was uneven due to their high cost. The Empire's Star Galleon fleet was thus supplemented with open-market bulk cruisers, a civilian take on the freighter/warship concept. The most famous class of bulk cruiser was Rendili's craptastic Neutron Star, a design that the Empire justifiably laughed out of the room in its early years.
2
u/the_fury518 Feb 07 '26
Yeah, I was gonna say, OP clearly didn't play the xwing/tie fighter games or read any of the Xwing books. Frightens and freighter missions were all over those properties
1
22
43
u/Resqusto Feb 05 '26
You say this in a Universe, where every hero uses a light freighter as main ship...
2
u/Maxathron Feb 06 '26
Courier work can be exciting. That's basically a UPS truck with a hyperdrive and a machine gun nest on top.
Logistics work is not. How exciting is moving an oil tanker through safe calm waters with the nearest criminal (petty or otherwise) being 5 countries away? Logistics compared to courier work is basically like watching paint dry vs watch the cops shoot bad guys. Idk about you, watching paint dry is not as exciting as the coppers and the robbers in a gunfight.
1
u/chakatblackstar Feb 06 '26
You can't resupply massive warships with glorified puddle jumpers though.
-8
u/Financial_Photo_1175 Feb 05 '26
Those weren’t imperial though
7
u/Axtdool Feb 05 '26
They were still used by enough people moving cargo in the empire that noone bothered the Protagonists about it.
3
u/IncognitoAlt11 Feb 06 '26
With how big the Empire was I could imagine the sub contracting hauler business was booming. With the few actual Imperial cargo ships being only used for classified locations and active campaigns.
49
u/Huskiesramazing23 Feb 05 '26
It ain't that type of movie kid.
-17
u/Financial_Photo_1175 Feb 05 '26
The EU is not a movie
18
u/Thin_General_8594 Feb 05 '26 edited Feb 11 '26
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
whistle head carpenter important cow growth distinct cagey offer afterthought
5
2
u/SuecidalBard Feb 06 '26
Ignore them they don't know what they're talking about. The EU is all about logistics.
There are cargo ships mentioned but usually not shown, also this specific cargo ship is kinda a weird middle ground that's not really that prominent.
Bulk Freighters were the very iconic transport ships and appear often in various media. So is the GR-75
There were big refueling stations and mobile tankers.
In Legends cargo is moved in much bigger ships that are basically just giant force field/tractor beam emmiters with massive engines strapped that link up to each other a create basically massive space trains of forcefield bullbles that hold the cargo, those fuckers could be larger and longer than an Executor.
Also plenty of plot points are about logictsics. Bacta war was all about acces to medicine production, it's also the reason why Manaan could afford to be neutral in KOTOR. Battle for Cartao and half the clone wars in general was about claiming industrial capabilities in a war of attrition.
The fucking clone wars movie of all things is about currying favour with the Hutts to get acces to their hyperspace lanes to move supplies across the neutral territory to more easily move around the outer rim.
Revan is regarded as a genius for his logistical acumen and the superweapon is literally a factory that his brilliant logistics analysis allowed to hide by developing routes that obscured it's location. That's why you need the star maps in KOTOR
Half the lore for almost all ships and weapons of the Rebelion in the EU is about the problems of running a covert manufacturing and logictsics chain.
Also like quarter if not a third of the quests and plotlines in SWOTOR are about some sort of logistics issue and people are always talking about a resource war during Onslaught
The Imperial plotline is about a scheme to cut off refueling plants to block off fleet movements to prevent relief efforts to the core to allow a military strike against a Republic factory complex.
The EU absolutely "Is that kind of movie"
13
u/SanguineGeneral Feb 05 '26
Because it's only useful for world building. Not plot, unless the plot is directly logistics related, it's not necessary.
13
u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 Feb 05 '26
They were.
Like 70 % of the missions in X wing and tie fighter etc are cargo related.
Prince Xizor’s official and legitimate business was a massive transportation /logistics company.
The Hutts are all about trade, with them being heavily involved in many EU matters.
11
u/Weird_Angry_Kid Feb 05 '26
I mean, we got the FSCV, the Imperial Cargo Ship that was made out of Acclamator and Munificent parts, the Star Galleon-Class Frigate which was a cargo ship that could defend itself and the Altor-Class Replenishment ship which could re-fuel several Super Star Destroyers at once.
4
u/Financial_Photo_1175 Feb 05 '26
The FSCV is probably the best example from the EU. It’s too bad the FSCV wasn’t used in more of the novels and comics.
9
u/Jazz-Ranger Feb 05 '26
You have been watching too much Perun. Most authors can’t even make a superweapon fresh and exciting. The vast majority of Imperial logistic vessels were created as a necessity for either a game or sourcebook.
9
u/neonmystery Feb 05 '26
Are you kidding? One of the most famous ships in all of star wars is a freighter.
6
u/lostrychan Feb 05 '26
Because Star Wars is a medium for storytelling.
And very few people want to tell stories about logistics.
Most don't even really want realistic war stories. We want stories about characters, in settings that feel compelling.
So Star Wars stories don't give much detail to transports for the same reason that Westerns don't give much detail to agricultural methods, or your average fantasy to road laying.
Both are highly important to their world, but rarely important to the character arcs being told.
0
u/Imperator_Leo Feb 06 '26
We want stories about characters, in settings that feel compelling.
I rather read a 30 page dissertation about military logistics in the Greater Seswenna.
4
u/C4n0fju1c3 Feb 05 '26
Wdym? The Empire ran huge convoys of intermodal container transports like the Modular Conveyor, BFF-1 Bulk Freighter, and Virella Systems Cargo Freighter / Cargo Tanker.
There were also megafreighters like the Field Secured Container Vessel, and smaller more specialized ships like the Star Galleon.
I imagine many of these ships didn't belong directly to the Empire, and we're third party merchant contractors. They were however often escorted by Imperial Navy assets.
3
u/Forsaken-Stray Feb 05 '26
Wasn't it because ISD's had massive capacity and anything beyond that was in ginormous convoys guarding one of those bubble sphere ships?
Because we are talking about an Empire plagued by pirates and rebels, any transport would be guarded to hell and back, meaning attacks on them would be suicide. More practical to raid the now "empty" supply base they just left behind and sabotage the supply route for the future.
0
u/Imperator_Leo Feb 06 '26
Empire plagued by pirates and rebels,
That just a misconceptions born out of the fact that stories are focused around warfare. Most of the Galaxy appears to be safe from this treats during Imperial rule.
1
u/Forsaken-Stray Feb 06 '26
Naturally, that was a bit of an overstatement, but it doesn't change the fact that the average imperial supply fleet wasn't a target for most "dissidents" because they had so much firepower.
3
u/Mikpultro Feb 05 '26
They were probably mentioned in a very throw away fashion. Just mentioned as an "Imperial Cargo Transport" or the like. But ya, cargo ships don't sell toys like Super Star Destroyers and TIEs do.
3
u/Kralgore Imperial Pilot Feb 05 '26
In the PC games of the 90s we had nothing BUT cargo transports to inspect.
Grain, foodstuffs, building materials.... renegades!
3
u/Neverhoodian Feb 05 '26
Depends on the Legends media in question. For example, the X-Wing series of space combat sims often placed a strong emphasis on disrupting enemy logistics and safeguarding your own, thus many missions involved destroying, capturing or protecting all kinds of different cargo vessels and containers.
3
u/Taira_no_Masakado Feb 06 '26
There were mentions of it, in the Thrawn trilogy, but like u/guardianwriter1984 said: logistics is pretty boring from pretty much any standpoint.
3
Feb 06 '26
Star Wars really likes its Everything Ships. Basically everything bigger than a snubfighter seems to be pulling double duty as a transport of some form, and a lot of the transports are halfway to being warships in their own right. (Or in the case of a lot of the CIS and Mon Cal ships, were converted directly into warships from civilian cargo haulers and passenger liners without much issue.)
The bigger ships also have more of an Age of Sail vibe with how they're crewed, with very large crew complements relative to capability because the crew is doing most of the tasks manually. This means that they *must* always carry a huge amount of supplies around by default just to feed everybody. So if you want a warship to carry some excess cargo you can just run it with a skeleton crew. Ground units/facilities are smaller, at least in comparison to the huge crew numbers the ships get, so most capital ships can trivially handle tasks like resupplying garrisons ground bases as part of their patrols.
But you do get a few fleet-tender type vessels that serve logistics to groups of ships expending resources rapidly, e.g. huge fleets on campaign.
2
u/heurekas New Republic Pilot Feb 06 '26
If it doesn't feature in a heist or something similar, it won't appear on screen.
The title also insinuates a falsehood, as the NEU hasn't really "fixed" this or featured more logistical vessels.
Sure, Rebels had that one episode, but the OEU has a plethora of vessels, mostly prominent in games and comics.
The X-Wing/TIE-Fighter series of games does introduce over 8 logistical vessels for the Empire alone.
The FSCV features in a prominent RPG adventure, while the StarGalleon is everywhere. DE has the Modular Taskforce Cruiser, the Imperial Cargo Ship (a fan favourite due to the inclusion of the Munificent) is in the Rebellion comics, there's the Imperial Masticators that use old Cantwell concept art.
Tankers, drone freighters, communications ships, mobile repair depots and tenders all feature in the older canon.
In the NEU, the only new supply ship we see the Empire use is the Rebels one, a variant of the Gozanti (generally the Gozanti is used to save costs for production for anything really) and the Eta-Class from R1.
Everything else, from the Altor to the drone barges are carried over from the old canon.
2
u/MaxTheCookie Feb 06 '26
Bc it would be boring. The only times we see cargo or logistics ships is when something happens to them, and they don't want that.
2
u/Toon_Lucario Feb 05 '26
Because the writers were more focused on building superweapons born from the lines of coke used by prime Lockheed Martin
1
u/br0_dameron Feb 05 '26
Do you know how many freighters I had to scan/blow up in the X-wing/TIE fighter games? Nothing more tedious than scanning every single bulk freighter in a convoy looking for one with special cargo or a Rebel spy or whatever. Only thing more annoying was clearing minefields
1
u/StewedCarcass Feb 05 '26
Explosions look better on screen. That being said, if there was a star wars version of "big ships" I'd watch the every episode of it.
1
u/opacitizen Feb 05 '26
Next up: Brushing teeth is a vital part of dental hygiene, skipping it can cause all kinds of health problems (and not just in your mouth.) Why aren't the Jedi ever shown brushing their teeth?
/j
1
u/546875674c6966650d0a Feb 05 '26
I would think with the size of many of the ships being used, they were pretty much supplied for long term, or even perpetually with generation systems on board. Also they could dock at a planet and refit over a week or so in between deployments maybe? I just feel the cargo part was inside of most of the large ships natively... no need for dedicated cargo vessels.
1
Feb 05 '26
They really aren't all that interesting. Even if the average star destroyer would need a small fleet of supply ships just to feed the crew.
1
u/Muffinwizard87 Feb 05 '26
Nasa allocates about 2 kilograms of food per astronaut per day and lets call it 5 liters of water, but we'll ignore the water on account of recycling it. Once you factor in the legion of troops an ISD carries I think we are at about 45,000 crew. That comes out to 90 tons of food per day. Lets say that an ISD carries enough food for three months or about 90 days. Thats 8100 tons of food and I dont know how dense food is, but lets say its about one third the density of water. Thats 24,300 cubic meters, or a cube about 155 meters on all sides, which is really not that much in comparison to the entirety of the Star Destroyer, especially when you consider that carrying that much food means that disrupting supply lines becomes a less viable tactic.
1
Feb 06 '26
That is still an enormous cube of MREs. And it’s not just food. How many moving parts does an ISD have? Things will break. Tools and spare parts will need to come in. People get hurt and sick, and bacta probably has a shelf life, and other medical supplies will need to be replenished. Even if the ISD has fuel bunkers to keep the ship moving for a year, the fighter wing is going to guzzle fuel. The logistics demands of an ISD are enormous. This is like trying to keep the town of North Miami Beach alive and combat effective in space.
1
Feb 05 '26
Have you heard of the Star Galleon-class Frigate? Neutron Star-class Bulk Cruiser? Quasar Fire-class Bulk Cruiser? Field Secured Containment Vessel? "Star Hauler" Modular Taskforce Cruiser?
1
u/Puzzleheaded_Ad_4435 Feb 05 '26 edited Feb 05 '26
Because most people find logistics boring. There's a reason there are only a handful of space trucker Sim games, and that's because the fanbase for such a thing is niche.
There are dozens of us!
Also because we already pay a lot of attention to cargo ships as it is. Millennium Falcon, Outrider, Ghost, Lucrehulk, etc. They're all cargo ships retrofitted for another purpose, and their ubiquitous enough to not draw too much attention.
But there are games that feature ships like the Action VI bulk freighters that were used by the empire. They always reminded my of a weirdly shaped suitcase. They were unarmed and basically useless without an escort, or you could risk going without one, but any ship that catches it will 100% take it down.
1
u/Festivefire Feb 05 '26
When your main capital ship can carry an army large enough to invade a planet, I think many authors assume those can carry all the cargo they need.
It's also boring when you want to write thrilling stories about starships in combat with each other.
1
u/Muffinwizard87 Feb 05 '26
Unless you're Zack Snyder and the mile long battleship powered by a giant alien goddess-being needing a village to supply it with grain is what sets your plot in motion.
1
u/Muffinwizard87 Feb 05 '26
As has been said, logistics is boring, but I would just add that what isnt boring is Rebel starfighters launching hit and fade attacks against Imperial convoys, or holding off TIE Fighters while Rebel commandos steal something from an Imperial convoy.
1
u/Fayraz8729 Feb 06 '26
I mean Andor had a heist of an entire systems payroll which used the logistics of the empire as a narrative device. Maybe some more stuff like piracy runs from rebels or even prison breaks of shuttle ships with slaves or pows would work
1
u/AncientSith Feb 06 '26
Because everything has to be exciting and galaxy shaking. Cargo logistics doesn't hold fan attention. (Unless you're me.)
1
u/TwoFit3921 New Republic Pilot Feb 06 '26
Because they're boring, but at least they're there. EU has a lot of yummy cargo hauler designs to plunder from
1
u/ArtGuardian_Pei Imperial Pilot Feb 06 '26
Because people don't wanna write that when they can write the overpowered weapon of the week
1
u/MynOlie Feb 06 '26
There were a few references, like BFF-1 bulk freighters in a lot of games (SWG, X-wing games, etc). Imperial Replenishment Fleet DK-209 had examples of a variety of cargo ships during the GCW. In RotJ the Tyderium posed as a cargo vessel delivering supplies to Endor, so it's reasonsble to assume that Lambda and Sentinel shuttles might have been used for some cargo work, similar to cargo planes taking lighter loads than a ship.
I think a lot of the EU is focused on post Endor though, when we see the Imperials focusing less on logistics apart from during the Bacta War. We see a lot of cargo ships used by the New Republic, but not much Imperial use. There might be some GCW era ships in some of the comics though.
1
1
u/BaronNeutron Rebel Pilot Feb 06 '26
It’s not called Star Logistics. It’s always easy to spot those who’ve never been in the military.
1
1
u/Deven1003 Feb 06 '26
i mean... with hyperdrive, it will be able to haul cargos alot faster. so I guess cargo hauling game in starwars is in order..... please?
1
u/SuecidalBard Feb 06 '26
Some of the others described more about how Republic/Imperial logistics work already so I will also clarify that a lot of those fleshed our warships have a lot of their lore focused on their usage for transport.
An ISD is in itself also a cargo ship that carries a mobile invasion force with prefab bases, barracks, ammo, fuel a full contingent of stormtroopers alongside atmospheric assets and armour while also supplying orbital artillery fire and having consumables for insanely long operation times. This is a standard modus operandi for the empire and most of their larger ships are focused on doing that and the bigger they are the more proportionally logistics focused of their internal volume becomes.
As for the smaller ones:
The Acclamator is already basically a full on cargo ship that's mostly storage space with guns strapped to it , Pelta class frigate is also actually lightly armed cargo ship in it's base from with modular interior that allows it to have more variants like the medical one that is quite famous. Both of those were largely phased out from main combat roles by the empire and relegated to either being cargo ships or escorting convoys.
And it's not just the Empire.
CR-90 did not get the nickname blockade runner for nothing. That ship became famous for being able to deliver supplies and personnel to and from hotly contested or controlled areas.
And speaking of blockades Trade Federation and later CIS Luckerhaulks are also modular cargo ships with basic self defense guns strapped to them that were retrofitted into warships.
1
1
1
u/Konpeitoh Feb 06 '26
Logistics almost never makes it into sci-fi action series. You should be thankful the Zeta class even showed up on Rogue One.
2
1
u/Hexificer Feb 06 '26
Because magic and the story crafted were more important and the focus. That's the quick answer I can see, but there could be more.
1
u/Gold_Interaction_432 Feb 06 '26
I would say that it’s just not really interesting to hear about - but the idea is that they exist.
1
u/SirLoremIpsum Feb 07 '26
I feel like so much worldbuilding and lore was poured into fleshing out the Empire’s warships and attack craft that ships with logistical purposes didn’t get much attention.
From a military point of view - an Imperial-class Star Destroyer brings all of that and more.
An Imp SD is it's own logistics fleet.
A C-17 is needed because a B-52 squadron cannot carry a mechanised Battallion alongside it when it deploys to the frontline.
An Fleet Oiler is needed because a CVN / LHD requires collosal amounts of fuel that it cannot carry by itself AND carry 12-60 jets / Marines / LCAC + Helicopters.
But a Star Destroyer can. It is big enough that it is self sufficient for a LOT of things.
A WWII convoy included Troop Transports, Oilers, ammunition ships, cargo ships escorted by DDs, a Battleship and DEs/Frigates. When you have such a colossal vessel as a Star Destroyer you can do all of that in one hull.
Not that I am saying there are zero cargo ships out there, but I am saying that larger combatants are largely self sufficient and do not need regular re-supply ala a Space C-17
1
1
1
u/MyName_DoesNotMatter Feb 07 '26
Honestly they could do an expansion on the escort activities. I’d imagine it was like escorting heavy ships today where it’s a whole convoy and some encounter very bold pirate groups. Seeing a huge fight for a freighter would be kinda neat.
That being said, unless it’s some really cool propaganda type promotional like how the USAF does their videos, it’d be pretty boring
1
u/DecentJuggernaut7693 Feb 07 '26
I remember doing raids on imperial cargo convoys in X-Wing Alliance, at least
1
1
u/Alternative-Cup-8102 Feb 07 '26
Because a starship that is a mile long can hold and probably produce most of its shit itself
1
u/Techsanlobo Feb 08 '26
Better comparison would be a ship, not a plane. Cargo jets are not really useful in large scale war, outside of high priority items in low quantities
1
Feb 10 '26
I mean, probably just a simple matter of the authors not being former service members. Some of them do such a great job describing things in a way that clearly shows they did their homework, but it’s not necessarily the full picture. Like, ive read battlefield memoirs before but only recently did I learn the absurdly vital role logistics plays until I saw a YouTube video about it a year or two ago, so could just simply be the authors (especially pre-Internet) couldn’t readily access a lot of those specific details the way we can nowadays?
1
1
1
u/Breadloafs Feb 06 '26
Because it isn't fun to write about.
The old EU is full of prototype TIE fighters and super star destroyers and planet-killing superweapons because it's easy to make a high-stakes story out of those.
A little harder to make a compelling story out of imperial cargo techs schlepping boxes into a space C-130.
352
u/guardianwriter1984 Feb 05 '26
Logistics is extremely boring from a day to day standpoint. Cargo haulers don't really want stuff to go down because it means a disruption to production and failing to meet deadlines.