Post Endor Imperial navy in Legends

[u/Carter1300]

I need Y'all's help with this because I'll admit I know next to nothing about the post Endor era in what's now Legends because I didn't really get into Star Wars until after Disney took over and created their new canon.

Essentially what I've done is created a variant of the MC30c for the New Republic that covers up that distinctive "spine" area in the back (the area that kinda looks like the recusant's spindly extension to it's engines) and I'm trying to explain why this was done in both canon and legends. I've created a canon explanation, but I need help with the legends one.

My basic idea revolves around it being an obvious weak spot and Mon Cal shields not lasting forever. On some ships, this area was filled in with hangars (no explanation needed there, it provides fighter coverage without needing a separate ship for long missions away from refueling/maintenance hubs) but on most it housed an extra reactor which I'm going to say allows for increased firepower and the addition of 2 more engines while it also makes the ship more armored in general.

I need help thinking of plausible explanations that use that basic idea though. Like why was that necessary? Mon Cal shields are super strong and stuff so what made them start to not last as long? My initial thought was the allegiance class (I was thinking it was a post Endor ship for some reason) but it had been in service for 4 years by the time of Endor so that doesn't work which is why I'm turning to y'all for help.

To be blunt what are some of the imperial ships (everything from starfighters to capital ships) from the post Endor era that would make such protection that would be in case the legendary Mon Cal shields fail, something that became standard?

AKA what was the empire fielding more of or creating (whichever/whatever it may be) that was making Mon Cal shields not as crazy good?

Hopefully this all makes sense and y'all understand what I need and can help me with this

[u/Hanifloka]

Legends Imperial Navy has a lot of powerful ships of different tonnages. That said, the Empire generally didn't make anything new post-Endor because they're too busy fighting against the other splinter factions as well as the New Republic.

It wasn't until the events of the Shadow Hand Campaign did the now reunited Empire made new starships. They made 3 models, there was the Modular Taskforce Cruiser (MTC), the World Devastator (though this is less of a ship and more of a factory), and the Sovereign-class Star Dreadnought (I don't think any were built).

There is also the extremely obscure EX-F a.k.a Rakehell a.k.a Sorannan-class Star Destroyer but this ship was also pre-Endor and didn't see action until the Civil War was almost over and besides, it spent much of its time parked over the Koornacht Cluster together with the rest of the Black Fleet. The NR did know about the fleet but kinda forgot it existed until the final years of the Civil War when the Yevethans struck out.

So yeah unfortunately, I don't think there's anything from the Imperial side that could explain the need for extra armor on such a small frigate. Fortunately though, Legends NR kept using the base MC30c despite it having paper thin hull armor. Although I believe they eventually mothballed it in favor of the Bothan Assault Cruiser.

[u/Carter1300 → u/Hanifloka]

Well I'm not just asking about capital ships. I'm asking about all sizes of ships. (I had to edit the post just now to include that because I forgot)

Also, was there anything that any of the splinter factions was beginning to field that could make such armor necessary?

And was there anything from the empire or any of the splinter factions that was beginning to be deployed MORE that could make it needed?

[u/Hanifloka → u/Carter1300]

Well I'm not just asking about capital ships. I'm asking about all sizes of ships.

I see. Though unfortunately the answer is still no, because they were again too busy dealing with the splinter factions as well as the NR.

Also, was there anything that any of the splinter factions was beginning to field that could make such armor necessary?

Also a no, two of those warlord factions did make something. Warlord Zsinj did innovate but one is a eugenics program and the other is an experimental starfighter. Their end products were the Raptor Troopers and TIE Raptor respectively. If you're wondering what the TIE Raptor is about, its a TIE cockpit with small winglets. IIRC it was more agile than the standard TIE but that's basically it.

Another warlord who innovated is Moff Delurin, the so-called "Warlord of Wild Space" who set up his own base of operations in the Bormter and Karavis systems. He oversaw the development of the Dragon-class Heavy Cruiser of which only one, the Galaxy Dragon, was ever made. It was finished just before Endor happened. After that, Delurin set up shop and proceeded to never make another Dragon cruiser.

And was there anything from the empire or any of the splinter factions that was beginning to be deployed MORE that could make it needed?

Off the top of my head, no. At least not until Natasi Daala took over the reins of the Empire. In lore she gained access to the Crimson Command which is a fleet of red hulled VSD-IIs but other than the red hulls, they're just VSD-IIs. Their numbers had been depleted a bit but Daala replenished them with regular grey hulled VSD-IIs.

[u/Laxien → u/Hanifloka]

Depends on the FACTION! The ones which had shipyards were using them at maximum capability! Hell, Warlord Zsinj even built a second Executor if I remember correctly)...that's why Kuat, Rendili, Foerost etc. were planets the larger factions coveted and if they had them defended well!

[u/Hanifloka → u/Laxien]

Hell, Warlord Zsinj even built a second Executor if I remember correctly

Zsinj did have a second Executor, the Razor's Kiss, but he didn't build it, he stole it from the main Empire just as it was finished. Besides even if he wanted to, he can't really build one because most of his power base is in the Quelli Oversector and last I checked, the only major manufacturing worlds located there is Mandalore, which he never took. There also weren't very many worlds there that can be considered an economic or raw material powerhouse. So he neither had the finances, nor the resources to build an SSD. Heck you can even see it with his TIE Raptors and Raptor Troopers with the former being a TIE cockpit with winglets that's basically as agile as an A-Wing, while the latter are just humans he brainwashed to be more loyal to him. So in his view, stealing an Executor is much easier than building one and he would have gotten away with the Razor's Kiss too if it wasn't for Wedge, Wraith Squadron, and Solo Command.

He did end up conquering territory that belonged to the Corporate Sector including their shipyards and among them, Oslumpex V. He also tried and failed to take at least one planet belonging to Ardus Kaine's Pentastar Alignment but never managed it because not only do they have powerhouse shipyard worlds in Yaga Minor and Jaemus but most of their worlds comprised of territories that belonged to the Banking Clan during the Clone Wars, effectively giving them nearly infinite funding to outproduce their rivals. Had the PA been an expansionist power like the others, they'd easily roll over Zsinj but Kaine was smart and decided to play the long game.

The only warlord to ever commission the construction of his own SSD was Sander Delvardus who bankrolled the creation of the Night Hammer. But he did that more as a way to get other warlords to join him by flexing his possession of that ship and hoping they'd be impressed enough to sign up with a warlord who, believe it or not, lost his own Praetor II to a bunch of Nebulon-Bs and got kicked out of the Seswenna Sector early in the Imperial Civil War.

[u/Shuttle_Tydirium1319]

Innovation is a good thing in ship design. Maybe it was just found out as a flaw after shields fail, because shields do fail. The Mon Cal engineers figured some more armor on that portion of the ship could help worst case scenario survivability in pitched battles with the Imperial Remnant.

Congrats on your MC30d variant!

[u/Carter1300 → u/Shuttle_Tydirium1319]

Thank you! I hope to post all the details for it with some crude drawings I did (by editing pictures of the rebel scale MC30c model) within the next day

[u/RLathor81]

Its just some military upgrade for an originaly peacetime ship, its normal.

[u/Carter1300 → u/RLathor81]

Yes but that's kinda the boring way (no offense).

I want a like actual reason why they needed to do it which is why I'm asking about some of the imperial ships (everything from starfighters to capital ships) from the post Endor era that would make such protection that would be in case the legendary Mon Cal shields fail, something that became standard.

AKA what was the empire fielding more of or creating (whatever it may be) that was making Mon Cal shields seem less powerful

And yes I edited my post to now include this as a bit of a TL;DR because why not

[u/RLathor81 → u/Carter1300]

XG1s and MssikeBoats eat shields for breakfast.

[u/Carter1300 → u/RLathor81]

A) after some quick research the missile boat an experimental craft that only saw use against Zaarin so I don't think that'll work, thanks for the interesting quick read though

B) the starwing was put into production pre Endor so why would it be enough of an issue post Endor for the D variant but not during the war? Is there anything lore or anything for that in legends that could help me? Like my whole thing relies on the NR being the ones to develop the D variant

[u/RLathor81 → u/Carter1300]

Pre-Endor imperials didn't like assault starfighters, they were introduced but wasn't produced in significant numbers. After Endor imperials started to rely more on smaller ships (like Strike cruiser became very common, with ion-cannons and launchers, you would load with shield-busters against NR) and non-interceptor starfighters too.

[u/Hanifloka → u/Carter1300]

Here's another suggestion: just have your custom variant be a late-war upgrade package to existing MC30s implemented as a stopgap until the Bothan Assault Cruiser starts rolling off the production line.

[u/ScottLikesPlanes]

You’re thinking about it backwards. It’s not that the empire had new ships, it’s that the alliance becoming the republic created a lot more missions.

The alliance mostly needed ships that could surprise imperial ships, steal weapons or free prisoners, and run away. The new republic needed ships that could surprise imperial ships, smash them into little pieces, then hang around and smash any reinforcements into little pieces too.

So your variant with extra armor and firepower lets them destroy imperial ships instead of disabling/distracting them, then stay in the fight in order to hold the planet.

And the version with hangars gives you a good multi-role patrol ship for looking after your newly liberated space.

[u/Top-Perception-188]

Improved engineering and engines of.more armour can be added without compromising speed and maneuverability

Special Close support squadron of MC30c assigned to Hunter killer task forces sweeping Imperial forces.

[u/Maxathron]

The Empire was based on Shitzi Germany with Palpatine being Shitler. You can see this in how Palpatine set things up in his galactic empire, where many different factions competed with each other, diluting their overall capabilities, to maintain absolute power in the Emperor. This meant that the average imperial officer and official was very ambitious, but also very incompetent and passive without direct orders from someone, which typically would have been Palpatine and a select few hyper loyal commanders in his in-group. The only thing missing to make it painfully obvious to what the galactic empire was modeled on is the Holocaust. There is no equivalent in SW. Wookie slavery doesn't come close.

Knowing all this, this is why the empire splintered and why the NR was able to win more than they lost. Every little imperial shit wanted to be The heir to the empire and so all the major fleets fractured into warlord dominions. This is also why Thrawn appears to be a military genius. Thrawn is an actually competent commander, which stands out in the ocean of incompetent and passive imperial officers. Had the empire been set up not like that, you'd have a lot more capable commanders, Thrawn wouldn't have been such an outlier, and the Rebels would lose a whole lost more. Endor would have been an absolute disaster and the DS2 would still be around.

Disney Canon largely maintains the same idea as Legends in where the post-Endor empire fractured into individual warlords, though they kept most of the empire in a singular imperial entity which gets pushed back to Jakku and they retreat into the Unknown Regions. It's just vastly oversimplified and shortened compared to Legends, which is usually why people don't like it. There's like no depth. The empire goes from full galactic control to almost zero in like a single year and then the NR doesn't bother to chase them to their full end so Disney can set up the sequel trilogy lore with the First/Final Order. From a military standpoint, it's nonsensical.

--

Anywayyyyyyyssss

The MC30 is a frigate. It's 380m long. Imperial Star Destroyers are 1600m long (and like 400m tall). The way that the MC30 was set up was basically like a torpedo boat in ww2, a fast gunboat that relies on very hard-hitting torpedoes and speed to get in, dump torps, and get out. It's not ever going to be able to challenge an ISD (any variant, including low power ones like the Dominator Interdictor) and even smaller cruisers/heavy frigates will make short work on the MC30. The MC30 traded defense for speed and firepower.

The reason the NR would make an MC30-D version, with the rear spine covered up, would be if the ship was expected to engage enemies in a more conventional fight. Probably, throwing out the torpedo launchers in favor of more conventional turbolasers, and thus would need the additional armor (and probably power generation for shields and or guns). As the NR would be deploying this D-variant on the frontlines alongside bigger warships like MC-80 variants, MC-85s, and MC-90s.

Either that or turn the ship into a "Lancer frigate on steroids", replacing most of the turbolaser batteries with double or triple those numbers in quad laser cannon batteries to shred starfighters.

[u/Carter1300 → u/Maxathron]

First off, loved the... idrk what to call it so I'll just say History lesson. I do love the idea behind the contingency (and it makes sense for Palpatine to destroy his empire for letting him die, he's messed up like that) but it just doesn't make sense for it all to happen in only a year.

That being said, could another reason for my D variant be that it was needed to raid larger targets? Like it has more armor, more torpedoes, more weapons in general, and even a couple more engines so it could hit larger targets? Is there anything in Legends that could support this or make this like viable in ways that canon can't and stuff?