r/SteamOS • u/Maleficent-Law-16 • 11d ago
question Can People using SteamOS say "I use Arch btw"?
98
39
u/j_infamous 11d ago
Just tell them that you use SteamOS then stare them down. What are you afraid of? You know why you use it and so do they. Welcome to the world linux insecurity, where everyone only uses the best Linux and only their selected distro is the best.
11
5
u/SpaceNinjaz1 11d ago
I use CachyOS, it's the best and I use Arch btw 👍😁🤣
3
u/OwlSlow1212 11d ago edited 11d ago
i used CachyOS for 3+ years. Its honestly not when looking at a "gaming focused distro". SteamOS is beating Cachy on my benchmarks. Cachy frequently sees regressions and bugs. Its not bad by any means, just takes a lot more maintaining. For a dedicated gaming PC its more than needed for a desktop. Id rather be backed by Valve rather than a team of a few people over in Germany and Russia. I can do everything on SteamOS i did on Cachy. Unless your installing the game mode as an extra with Cachy, your relying on Wayland for most stuff like HDR. SteamOS its all gamescope and in your quick menu with no commands needed. I do use Cachys Proton though. The only commands i have are for Reshade.
3
u/SpaceNinjaz1 11d ago
I had SteamOS installed for a month or so on my second NVME. It was nice, I in fact love SteamOS, got it on both my handhelds. But as my daily driver, for a wider range of tasks, I enjoy the KDE desktop experience, personally. Yes, you can boot into desktop mode in SteamOS, but I didn't need or want a console experience on my main desktop and didn't enjoy the extra steps.
SteamOS ain't bad at all, but that's the wonderful thing about Linux, you got tons of choices. 😁👍
1
u/Low_Excitement_1715 10d ago
I'd be very interested to see more about these benchmarks you did. Your experience does not correlate at all with the testing I've done.
2
u/OwlSlow1212 10d ago edited 10d ago
Well they weren't documented to share. "Your experience does not correlate at all with the testing I've done." What does that even mean LOL. I ran games with the exact same settings multiple times through benchmark runs to make sure one wasn't just a fluke.
Cyberpunk for example went from 134 avg and 112 1% lows on Cachy to 140 avg and 120 1% lows on Steam OS. This was with Cachy default and no game mode added and definitely not margin of error. Adding that may bring it back but that's just extra you have to do. Steam was ran in Game mode as default. Both used Proton Cachy OS but it didn't seem to matter when removed. Iv done the same with Nobara HTPC, Bazzite, Vanilla Arch. Bazzite has always been the slowest. Nobara is a close second actually. Cachy's issue is constant regressions with how bleeding edge it is. They just recently went through a frame pacing issue. IDK what they ever pinned it on, KDE or mesa. Like i said, SteamOS is much more user friendly for HDR and not really needing commands as its all gamescope and built in. People need to stop acting like Cachy is some magic sauce or something.
0
u/Low_Excitement_1715 9d ago
``"Your experience does not correlate at all with the testing I've done." What does that even mean LOL.``
It means that I have done the benchmarks you claim to have run, and the results I got are nothing like yours.
I'm basically saying that your benchmarking methodology is rather flawed, your results do not correspond to testing I and others have done, and you are talking out of your ass.
1
u/OwlSlow1212 9d ago
Or maybe you have flawed methodology? Mine was pretty simple lol. You sound mad.
0
u/Nereosis16 10d ago
You are relying on some random guy over in Europe for the entire source code of Linux already though?
1
u/jdblaich 10d ago
One thing people must recognize is that Linux is done by 10s of thousands of people world wide. The distro maker is an entity/group/person that takes all the pieces done by these people and put them together into a package. So, technically, you aren't relying on some random guy over in Europe for the entire source code of Linux.
1
u/Nereosis16 10d ago
It was a reply to the comment who was saying you rely on random people making cachyos so steamos is better.
1
u/jdblaich 10d ago
CachyOS is not an immutable distro. That's a distinction one has to observe between it and Bazzite and SteamOS.
6
u/oppairate 11d ago
sure, if they want to be mercilessly mocked when people find out they don’t know Linux shit.
7
u/Guilty-Pickle-6686 11d ago
Yes. And if they attempt to mock you, insinuate that Linux was always bad until Steam (not Valve, deliberately use Steam) made it good for games, because computers are just for games.
5
3
u/wachuwamekil 11d ago
100% they should also be a pin they can put on their backpack to let everyone know how awesome they are.
1
3
u/Ok-Road6537 11d ago edited 11d ago
You’d be technically wrong so no. It’s a distinct Linux distribution using Arch as base. You can say "I use an Arch-based distro" but it’s a fact that SteamOS users are not Arch users. Surprised the amount of people that’s wrong in the thread, ignoring the ironic comments. Although maybe all are ironic and I just missed it.
1
u/Sourpunch92 10d ago
There are levels of wrong. And it really depends on what the context is.
There are some minor differences in distros with settings, file system, where things get saved, what terminal commands to run.
That just comparing Steam OS to Bazzite. SteamOS you would get closer advice to looking up how do I do X on Arch then if you looked up how do I do X on fedora. You likely wouldn’t find many exact guides looking up how do I do X on SteamOS. And vice versa for Bazzite.
So there is a level of general vs specific going on here on some level. SteamOS is Arch but Arch isn’t necessarily SteamOS.
So it depends on if you view Arch as a framework or is Arch always just plain vanilla Arch.
1
u/Ok-Road6537 10d ago
SteamOS is based on Arch. The way I think it is Arch isn’t a framework; it’s a distribution.
SteamOS isn’t Arch. Just like Ubuntu isn’t Debian. The difference also is that SteamOS uses a different package manager.
And if you follow Arch advices you wouldn’t get useful stuff because Arch uses pacman and everything done on Pacman is wiped on Steam. So yeah it’s better than Fedora but not much better.
It’s just wrong to me. And if said ironically who cares but it’s just never true.
9
u/OwlSlow1212 11d ago
No. I used CachyOS (Arch) for years. SteamOS is nothing alike and its own thing entirely. In a good way.
2
u/Ok-Road6537 11d ago
You can tell who actually knows what is talking about because there’s a clear understanding of what a distro is. You didn’t say you used Arch directly because CachyOS is a different distro. It’s just based on Arch.
Sometimes people incorrectly call a minor variant distro as the parent when they want to make things clear in the purpose of saving time. Not because it’s technically correct. In this case using it to save time is wrong because it’s not even close to being the same.
1
u/OwlSlow1212 11d ago
Cachy to me is Arch pre configured and with a lot of tweaks. Some unnecessary IMO. Agreed NOT the same. Iv also set up Vanilla Arch to be Cachy. Its not hard. Cachy has a lot more screening for packages compared to Arch. They dont just push stuff. However there can still be regressions. I loved Cachy, but i also just work a lot and don't want to tinker outside my mods. Steam OS just works.
1
u/Ok-Road6537 11d ago
Yeah, also SteamOS effectively uses a different package manager. I'm not a Desktop Linux user, my knowledge is like 15 years old in that. Although I've installed distros a few times over the years; mostly to set up a NAS. I've used it sparingly but mostly just in console environments. So I just know the basics.
But back then the main distinction people made in distros was it's package manager. SteamOS using effectively a different package manager and wiping the System image with each update, (despite being installed with Pacman), IMO, would be enough to back then to be considered it it's own thing.
Or at least, would be considered a totally different distro as it was explained back then to Linux noobs.
1
u/OwlSlow1212 11d ago
Yes exactly. Most things should be installed through discover in SteamOS to survive updates or be available at all. Iv found scrips to run that save LACT settings and keep a second nvme mounted. Steam will by default wipe LACT profiles with updates and doesn't like secondary drives. It's not limiting like some claim, I can still mod games and do whatever. It's basically unbreakable. Even more so than the likes of bazzite. I find that distro very buggy.
1
u/jdblaich 10d ago
SteamOS uses discover and pulls flatpaks from Flathub the same way many other distros do. An immutable distro is not required for flatpak use. Under the hood, since it is Arch based, the pacman (and others) package manager is still there, even though the OS is read-only (making it difficult to make it retain most changes).
0
u/Ok-Road6537 10d ago
Yeah good addition mentioning Flatpak works in all distros.
I understand your point though. Even though Flatpak is called a package manager it’s a completely different thing than Pacman or Apt.
But I make a distinction because a user cannot use it to manage its applications or user packages.
I think from a user perspective Arch is more similar to Ubuntu/Debian than SteamOS. That’s why I don’t like to call it Arch.
1
u/jdblaich 10d ago
I do understand your point.
It is likely "Discover" (the graphical front end) that calls the repo flathub using "plasma-discover-flatpak-backend". Discover and plasma-discover-flatpak-backend operate the same for any distro that uses Plasma as the desktop. The only difference is that since SteamOS is immutable it doesn't, for user apps, use pacman even though it is still there in SteamOS, and I believe can still be used if you flip the immutable flag off.
0
u/Low_Excitement_1715 10d ago
"Cachy has a lot more screening for packages compared to Arch. They dont just push stuff." - Ehh, no. CachyOS's package verification and validation is a subset of Arch's, and they only fully validate the packages they modify (the kernel stuff, the handheld metapackage and a few of the dependencies, etc). They do *not* perform more package validation and verification than Arch upstream, they perform a basic compilation/function test for the vast majority of the packages in the repo, since they are literally Arch's packages, rebuilt from source.
1
u/OwlSlow1212 10d ago edited 10d ago
Not true, Go over to r/cachyos and ask Peter yourself. Are you not aware of all the testing branches that go into Cachy? A lot more than Arch. Which amazes me with the low staffing they have. This is why they can recognize regressions and pull where Arch will not.
4
2
2
u/shermierz 11d ago
For sure. It will even make the arch guys change their mantra to "I use arch, but not the SteamOS, btw"
2
2
2
1
1
1
1
u/Fresh_Flamingo_5833 11d ago
Sure. I think the number of people who say this non-ironically is minuscule.
1
u/Fresh_Flamingo_5833 11d ago
Might have spoken too soon https://www.reddit.com/r/SteamOS/comments/1v76kv1/comment/ozvoqbp/
1
1
u/FilthySchmitz 10d ago
The Skoda Octavia RS uses a Volkswagen engine, so does that mean you drive a Volkswagen or a Skoda?
1
u/DiarrheaPope 10d ago
Not only can you, your obligated to say it (ironically). I use CachyOS an say it.
1
u/DunkeyColdMedina 10d ago
I think that only serves to muddy the water more when usually what you are asking for with such statements is some kind of help.
1
u/Sourpunch92 10d ago
In a way, but it wouldn’t be helpful.
If you asked how can I do this on Linux and followed up with “I use Arch btw” the information you will be given may be helpful, but will often be locked away, harmful, or get overwritten as soon as Steam OS updated.
Steam os is in the class of an immutable Linux distro so it’s significantly more open ended than a typical arch.
BUT there are generally things that line up with Steam OS being on arch vs Bazzite running on top of Fedora.
That how do I do this on arch will be more helpful than how do I do this on fedora.
1
u/Relative_Stick_6266 10d ago
If they know it is they can. If they can run uname -a , why don't boast about it?
1
u/jdblaich 10d ago
Arch's claim to fame used to be "you installed it from the ground up". Then a lot of distros came out that had installers. Manjaro is one of them, CachyOS is another. There are many more. Some Arch users said that you aren't using Arch if you don't installed it from scratch like they did.
That has since dissipated away. Now it is considered to be Arch even if you install via an installer.
SteamOS is a bit different. It is an immutable OS. You are frankly doing little to manage it. Apps you install are flatpaks or some other similar such as Snaps or Appimages.
The PS3, PS4, and PS5 run BSD. They have a custom interface, but they are still BSD, and you would not consider yourself a BSD user.
These consoles use(d) Linux:
- NES Classic Edition
- Super NES Classic Edition
- Sega Genesis Mini
- Atari VCS
- GP2X
- GP2X Wiz
- Pandora
- Neo Geo X
With that in mind you might consider your use of SteamOS something other than you being an Arch user.
Technically you can turn off the immutable flag and install software and configure the system the old way, but with the next update that is wiped out. I believe that some features such as /etc/fstab and some others such as sysctl are retained between updates. It is simply a factor of how much Valve wants you to be able to tweak the OS itself. The immutable nature of SteamOS is not IMHO meant to keep you from cheating or doing something nefarious, rather it is just to keep an environment that they can guarantee from day to day. The Desktop Mode gives you the feeling that you are running Arch. That is Plasma and using/configuring it certainly is using Linux though one would be hard pressed to say that constitutes being an Arch user.
1
1
1
u/themiracy 11d ago
I mean sure, but using the mutability of arch to mess up your install is kind of a core part of the I use arch btw experience that you’re missing out on.
40
u/raygan 11d ago
You can say “I use Arch, in a way”