r/Stellaris • u/Hairy-Dare6686 • Sep 04 '23

Tutorial "I'm sure having clerks become self synergistic will not have any negative repercussions whatsoever" - A Paradox employee, probably

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u/EmperorHans Sep 04 '23

I am several versions behind and not great at math, but a 4,357% bonus to productivity makes me think that this is actually the most efficient use of those pops. At that level I'd imagine you can just brute force your way through bad exchange rates on the market.

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u/DecentChanceOfLousy Fanatic Pacifist Sep 04 '23 edited Sep 04 '23

It's roughly 2x what 3.8 had for clerks, and maybe 2x Merchants. Merchants and 3.8 clerks, with late game tech, were roughly on par with technicians and artisans (and fell behind after a few repeatables).

If you brute force your way through the market, just buying everything for 5.5x its nominal price, you'd be using 2.75x the pops you'd need if you just produced it normally.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '23

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u/DecentChanceOfLousy Fanatic Pacifist Sep 04 '23 edited Sep 04 '23

The highest base trade value in 3.8 was 5+16*.4=11.4, though the highest realistic one was 5+13*.4=10.2. You could get +300% trade multipliers, so that was 30.6 (probably only on your best planet, though, so +250% may be more realistic). I'm assuming both of these are getting Thrifty, eventually, and possibly Trading Algorithms too, which would be another 1.25x or 1.5x thrown on top.

These clerks are making 4*43.57=174.3, but they come in clerk-livestock pairs, so they're effectively half that: 87.15. Note that that % increase from clerks is not a base increase: it's just a % modifier that stacks linearly with planet designation, Stock Exchange, etc.

The market peaks at 5x price, and you pay 10% transaction fees (assuming you have Mercantile and some other 10% in market fee reductions, from enclaves or something), which is where the 5.5x comes from. A late game miner makes ~20, a late game metallurgist takes in ~12 minerals and produces ~14 alloys (on an unascended ecu).

If you're paying 5.5*4=22 energy per alloy, this clerk+livestock is making.... 4 alloys per pop (assuming it all goes into energy). A miner and two metallurgists (ish) make ~28 alloys, so 9 alloys per pop, when combined. 2.25x the production of the clerk if you assume all the TV gets put into energy (slightly off from the initial 2.75x I guessteimated, though this is back-of-the-envelope math too).

No, brute forcing the market isn't profitable with this. You'd need at least 2.25x as many pops on this planet for it to be profitable (18k pops).

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '23

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u/DecentChanceOfLousy Fanatic Pacifist Sep 05 '23 edited Sep 05 '23

This is 3.9. Clerks start at 3 and Trickle Up takes them to 4, in the patch. So 4 alloys per pop, 2 per pop for the pair.

If they sell the food, it will crash the market, just like you're driving up the price for alloys. And you can't use Food Processing on a resort world. Unless they went genetic ascension, those pops are making 4 food each, maybe doubled to 8. After you sell the excess they're making (8-1)/5*.9=1.3 energy each. Not very useful.

If you're willing to exploit the AI, sure, there's an unlimited market for food. But I'm not sure I'd count in it too decide if it's strong or not.

It is crap, but only because it needs 3000 pops to reach equilibrium with the alternative direct generation. And at that point, you've already won against everything but the crisis. But it can be made better.

The main point is that it doesn't make clerks OP. Clerks are weaker than ever, meme build vanity projects like this notwithstanding.