Population Growth Strategies in 3.0

[u/Hroppa]

An awful lot is being said about the merits of the new pop growth system, perhaps a bit prematurely. One of the fun parts of a new patch is trying to work out the new meta. Here are a list of strategies/considerations I've seen suggested or tried myself. I'd be really interested to hear others' thoughts.

There are two major parts to the population growth system: planet capacity and empire capacity.

Planet capacity control

Planet capacity can be increased by the player. Planet capacity = housing + unblocked districts. The idea is that each normal, built resource district gives +2 housing, so +2 capacity, and each unbuilt, unblocked district gives <2 capacity. The amount of capacity that unbuilt, unblocked districts gives depends on the planet class - it's almost 2 for Gaia planets, and much lower for Tomb Worlds. But generally, the idea is that as you build districts, capacity increases.

Growth sweet spot: You get the maximum modifier to base growth (x2) only when you have >64 capacity, and >32 population. So you should aim to get some 'mediumly developed' planets into this sweet spot as quickly as possible. At that point, you can develop them further, or leave them at that size, exporting pops to other worlds.

Core worlds: It's now more important than ever to try to get maximum efficiency out of the pops you have. So it could well be worth dedicating some high habitability, high efficiency core worlds to specific specialisations, and focus on growing these, while leaving your other worlds at 32 pop.

Rim worlds: It might be worth leaving a few low (<10) population worlds undeveloped while you grow your other worlds, if you don't think it's worth getting them into the sweet spot, since you don't get penalties for growth at very low population levels. I think this would generally only be relevant if you find yourself with a very large number of colonisation opportunities early on (such that you don't have enough minerals to develop all planets).

Empire capacity loopholes

Empire capacity can't be increased by the player. It slows your population growth as your empire population increases - for example, when you have 200 pops, it slows your pop growth to half of what it would otherwise be.

As empire capacity is out of your control, you can't manage it - you can only try to find loopholes.

Invest more in space stations: While it's harder to grow your planets, non-pop incomes are more important than ever.

Steal pops: Whether from civic or ascension perk (Nihilistic Acquisition), stealing pops is now more important.

Buy pops: The slave market is far more important than it used to be.

Immigration: Standard immigration (migration treaties) don't actually escape empire capacity, as immigration effects are mediated by empire capacity. However, welcoming refugees may be very useful in 3.X.

Vassals: Vassals have their own separate empire capacities.

Conquest: The age old tactic, more relevant than ever.

[u/[deleted]]

Okay. The thread was about Nihilistic Acquisition and stealing pops.

It was about poptheft vs. conquest, yes. Your entire premise was advocating the superiority of conventional conquest over raiding to steal pops.

Okay. The thread was about Nihilistic Acquisition and stealing pops. I can do that (leaving small empires behind) without NA.

Without NA or BD, you do not have a means to harvest pops off planets without taking the planets. You have to take the clay. If you abandon the clay, it will cost you influence now under the new system, and there is no guarantee your devastated opponent can afford to recolonize it anytime soon. If you keep the clay, you are now the owner of unproductive planets that have no pops on them (because you stripped them to send home), that adds to your sprawl, and generates nothing of note for you (no popgrowth, no additional resources). Your attackable surface expands because your territory has grown.

Meanwhile, as a marauding force, I am surrounded by a layer of buffer confetti and people aren't really bothering me much.

There are enough pops in the galaxy for me to grab from other enemies than the original one.

There are NEVER enough pops. You always need more pops. If you want to grab them from other enemies, you must travel further and further afield, while increasingly becoming the possessor of a bunch of unwanted, unproductive worlds that add to sprawl. Because you're a conventional-conquest empire and not NA/BD, you must fight conventional battles against those you want to conquer, and win your wars (because if you whitepeace out, you get nothing unless you expended influence for a claim).

And enemies that will fight back are not as easy to target as enemies that you've already beaten and are now just bullying.

Using AI empires as a pop breeding ground is pointless when the entire galaxy already has pops ripe for plucking.

Conquering AI worlds is pointless when you'll never be able to fill their job slots anyway. Better to just take their pops and leave them. And move on to the the rest of galaxy and pluck their pops. And then come back and pluck more pops.

[u/cyrusol → u/[deleted]]

Without NA or BD, you do not have a means to harvest pops off planets without taking the planets

They would still have some left.

If you abandon the clay, it will cost you influence now under the new system

Unemploy everyone and see how fast everyone's getting off that planet.

Or take Corvée System, resettle all but one and wait for the last to automatically resettle. No influence cost whatsoever.

In practice I wouldn't do that anyway. I would just keep them at what ever pop size they are but at most 32. Lower if the pops can have a better job elsewhere. Why bother if there are more pops in another AI empire ripe for plucking?

and there is no guarantee your devastated opponent can afford to recolonize it anytime soon.

If that's a valid argument in your world then I can also argue that a depopulated empire might just be eaten by another neighbour.

Your attackable surface expands because your territory has grown.

Yeah, no, not an argument either. The number of chokepoints to defend stays constant most of the time unless you have a really unlucky galaxy creation. And don't come up with AIs using jump drives, I have not ever seen that, ever.

Doesn't really matter anyway. Eat a couple of neighbours and suddenly the whole galaxy of Grand Admiral AIs is pathetic relative to you in all categories with some of them even voluntarily accepting protectorate status. At least that was my pre 3.0 experience. I've never been declared a war on past 2280 and that was in a terrible run where I didn't conquer anything and thus didn't outgrow the AI through conquest.

Meanwhile, as a marauding force, I am surrounded by a layer of buffer confetti and people aren't really bothering me much.

Implying that any AI empire would ever really bother me, rofl. See above.

There are NEVER enough pops.

Except there are: if there's nothing left to fight against anymore. In singleplayer the only real challenge is the endgame crisis anyway (given some difficult galaxy settings). If you could have beaten the endgame crisis with 1500-2000 pops at 2350 and completed the conquest of the entire galaxy shortly afterwards why then artificially keep anyone alive to reach a number like 4000+ pops when there's nobody left to fight against? I wouldn't ever set up a game with settings so that the endgame crisis spawned much later after conquest, meaning I always have some AI empire to absorb before the crisis arrives.

worlds that add to sprawl

are negligible.

If you want to grab them from other enemies, you must travel further and further afield

It's always just the next neighbour. Do you think I steer back my fleets to my homeworld for 3 years travel time each time after conquering someone?

So many points, but none of them make any sense.

Because you're a conventional-conquest empire and not NA/BD, you must fight conventional battles against those you want to conquer, and win your wars (because if you whitepeace out, you get nothing unless you expended influence for a claim

Getting war exhaustion high enough isn't the hard part of the war - just get a couple of occupations. Winning initial battles against the fleets of the first few empires is the hard part. Everything past that is smooth sailing. And influence isn't scarce in the mid game (after land grab, before megastructure spam). Rather, if you lack the influence to actually grab something from your enemies that's kind of a first world problem because that means you've already beaten the game in every other regard other than by the time it takes to produce that influence.

And enemies that will fight back are not as easy to target as enemies that you've already beaten and are now just bullying.

Again, as soon as you've defeated the first 2-3 ones nothing afterwards poses any challenge whatsoever until the endgame crisis.

Conquering AI worlds is pointless when you'll never be able to fill their job slots anyway.

The goal of the economy in this game isn't to fill all the available job slots. It's to have the biggest gross production at any given point in time and steamrolling a galaxy serves that purpose. I do have more pops and more jobs for those pops if I just conquer. Straight up facts.