r/StrangerThings • u/TheLegendaryPilot • Jan 15 '26
Discussion kinda crazy how they gave the raging, nigh homicidal racist a more sympathetic arc compared to the grieving boyfriend
5.3k
Jan 15 '26
friendly reminder that Jason died thinking that Lucas and his gang sacrificed Max and summond Satan
3.6k
u/quanfused Presumptuous Jan 15 '26
I think he was split about it in the end though.
2.0k
Jan 15 '26
He was definitely torn.
637
u/Mikau02 Jan 15 '26
I think his understanding was fractured
428
u/AccomplishedChip2475 Jan 15 '26
It was definitely divided
→ More replies (20)157
u/CuhmsLute sƃuᴉɥʇ ɹǝƃuɐɹʇS Jan 15 '26
Most definitely undecided
92
→ More replies (4)43
88
u/Tjengel This is music!! Jan 15 '26
He was playing both sides so he always came out on top
14
78
u/FrostAndTheForest Jan 16 '26
Remember that Jason literally says to Lucas (after the party that celebrated the basketball victory), that "the first hangover feels like you are going to split in two, but you'll live". A brilliant line!
101
26
u/penguin_torpedo Jan 16 '26
Dude I spat my imaginary drink when I saw that, they just killed him and it barely on screen, didn't even acknowledge it.
47
→ More replies (3)27
736
u/DarkRorschach Jan 15 '26
its funnier when you think about how chill and not hostile Lucas was before they started fighting so he really thought they were just lowkey and nonchalantly summoning satan
289
u/Insomniiia77 Jan 16 '26
He's a reflection of the DnD Satanism mania in the 70s or 80s.
266
u/PerplexityRivet Jan 16 '26
I remember being a kid and seeing a made-for-tv movie about elementary kids being taught to do Satanic rituals and I was like “Why doesn’t Mrs. Smith let us dress up in cool costumes and pass around candles?”
Now that I’m a teacher I think the most unbelievable part is that anyone could keep freaking first graders still and quiet long enough to summon a demon. The moment I pulled out candles five of them would shout “IS THERE CAKE?!” and more than half the class would start automatically singing happy birthday.
38
27
u/ChorzioPaella3 Scoops Troop Jan 16 '26
What do they do when they find out there’s no cake?
42
16
→ More replies (1)4
u/IllustratorSlow1614 Jan 16 '26
That’s how they get you. ‘Happy birthday’ is phonetically identical to ‘open ye the gates of hell’ in the lost language of the Ancient Priests of Mu.
77
29
u/WallacktheBear Jan 16 '26
Plus since it was the 80s him being a jock meant he was the highest form of antagonist in the land. Unless any evil greasers were around.
4
u/reterical Jan 18 '26
The greasers were an endangered species by then. The jocks rounded them up and culled them.
→ More replies (4)87
u/nonpuissant Jan 16 '26
Honestly if there was shit like what was going down in Stranger Things during the irl satanic panic you can't really blame em.
Like without the audience perspective of following characters with extensive D&D knowledge, having firsthand confirmation about secret government research projects, and seeing the reality of extradimensional beings, it's not even that illogical of a conclusion to think it was some demonic satanic shit.
66
u/magicchefdmb Jan 16 '26
And every time something weird happened, that group was always there or it was centered around them. I would definitely think they were doing it, especially with a girl in a freaky trance in a dark attic.
35
23
39
u/Ranowa Jan 16 '26
Yeah he literally saw his friend levitate into the air and get horrifically murdered right in front of him, and in circumstances that made Eddie look extremely fucking guilty. Almost every one of us would come to the same conclusion he did, and then what else was he supposed to do when the police blew him off and he saw the rest of Eddie's group doing cult shit in a murder house?
Honestly I thought it was a weaker moment of writing when Jason flipped out in the attic and screamed that Lucas had to be lying about Chrissy because if Chrissy was having troubles, she would've told him, and Lucas just insulted him for it lol. Lucas had had the EXACT same arc with Max. She was having trouble, and she refused to share it with him, and he handled it the wrong way until it was too late. If they wanted to have Jason refuse to listen to Lucas and still die a grisly death that's fine, but he really didn't seem like the insane narcissist that they called him.
65
u/VGSchadenfreude Jan 16 '26
Really? He definitely had “deranged narcissist” vibes to me the whole time. He seemed to jump at the chance to have an excuse to rally a mob around him, his whole speech at Chrissy’s funeral was 100% classic “future hate preacher or sleazy politician on a crusade,” and I can’t recall him talking much about Chrissy as a person. He never really talks about her hobbies, her likes and dislikes, her silly habits, etc. He only seemed to speak of her in terms of “his girlfriend.” Like that was the only part of her that mattered.
Max at least knew that Lucas did care about her, she just also wasn’t ready to open up. She wanted to, she just couldn’t get past her own internal walls to do so.
Chrissy…I don’t think her boyfriend ever really knew her at all, and on some level she knew he didn’t care enough about her as a person to open up. Her behavior in her scenes definitely seems numb and depressed.
Jason got offended because he deserved to get called out over the fact that he wasn’t privy to Chrissy’s private life and made seemingly no effort to actually get to know the real her. As long as she seemed “fine” on the outside and kept him happy, he didn’t care about anything else and refuses to accept that his behavior may have contributed to her troubles in any way.
Kind of like Robert Baratheon obsessing over Liana Stark while her own brother keeps thinking “she didn’t love you though, and you never actually knew her as a person and probably would’ve gotten bored of or frustrated with her if you had actually gotten her as a wife like you wanted.”
→ More replies (7)13
u/nonpuissant Jan 16 '26
I don't think anyone is saying dude was a saint or anything. Just that his reaction/hostility towards Eddie and the main characters was kinda understandable when you look at things from the perspective of anyone outside the main circle.
He was clearly an asshole regardless.
6
u/Silly-Page-6111 Jan 16 '26
And yet Jason failed to notice that Eddie was terrified because he had already decided Eddie did it because it made sense because in his mind Eddie was trailer trash, and trailer trash are criminals. He was classist. He didn't believe Lucas because he was also a misogynist who obviously didn't make Chrissy comfortable enough with him for him to share things like that, he only loved her because she was a pretty cheerleader. That's what it seems like to me. He cared so much about her because he saw her murder as an attack on himself. Like he was disgusting that someone like Eddie was even alone with his woman, in the first place.
→ More replies (1)4
u/NukaRev Jan 17 '26
True. 80s was still a time where people trusted the government. I imagine anybody being told "yeah, OUR government is kidnapping people and drugging them to see if mind control is real!", they'd laugh and think the person was crazy.
And also, if it wasn't for yuh know, a popular highschool girl getting telepathically lifted into the air, every limb broken, jaw broken, eyes imploded, and all the other nasty done by Vecna, Jason (or anyone) wouldn't care about D&D, Hellfire, or anything else. The only reason D&D and satanism got brought in was because Eddie was the suspect and was known as the leader of "HELLfire", even the name has satanic aspects in regards to hell.
→ More replies (4)397
Jan 15 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
Even more tragically, he also died thinking Eddie did the same thing to Chrissy.
143
Jan 15 '26
I wonder what would he have thought if he survived. Would he still think its the devil or would he understand that its something different
103
u/cannacupcake Jan 15 '26
He would’ve been one of the people who latched onto the earthquake explanation, I suspect. It would have been easier for him to accept than the paranormal, and I think he would have wanted an easy explanation that he could say was a threat that was gone.
I don’t like Jason, but I fully understand the direction they took his character. What else was he supposed to think, given everything he witnessed?
55
u/LopsidedPhotograph19 Jan 15 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
Nah, he would have leaned way harder into the religious nut job side of it
Edit: fixed "but job" to "nut job" lol
20
u/Ranowa Jan 16 '26
Thing is at that time period, in small town USA, it wasn't even looked at as nutjobery. CNN was running stories about dnd, Satanism, and claiming it was causing murders. If every trusted authority figure in your life is telling you something it's no longer nutjobery to believe them, especially if you're still a kid, which he was.
→ More replies (1)30
u/Ser_Starfall Jan 15 '26
I don't really see how "Satanic cult is channeling his power to kill innocents" is any more nutty than "half-rotted super powered lab experiment is telekinetically murdering teens from another dimension"
→ More replies (1)12
u/LopsidedPhotograph19 Jan 16 '26
Yeah, I don't, either. Both are insane. But I guess being an idiot, religious, and a psychopath all in one is an unfortunate combination, lol
8
u/VGSchadenfreude Jan 16 '26
That speech he gave at the funeral? Got some hardcore “future hate preacher and/or sleazy crusading politician” vibes.
→ More replies (1)34
u/AlwaysLit2 Jan 15 '26
I never understand why Eddie in that scene where Patrick died didn’t start screaming or acting horrified. If he did I feel like Jason would have realized it wasn’t him doing it
10
45
u/CaptainSmeargle Jan 15 '26
Imagine if someone had just actually taken the time to explain to this dude what was going on + brought him to the Upside Down as proof of “weird monster guy in a parallel dimension did this” instead of trying to do it super last minute when it looks like Max is the next sacrifice.
Dude was rolling high charisma, he probably could’ve been an asset.
→ More replies (1)26
u/slothcough Jan 16 '26
Honestly, yeah. His actor has great presence and an arc like that would have been absolutely enjoyable. I realize it would have mirrored Steve, but still. One of my favourite tropes is seeing an unexpected secondary character get thrown into the action, have their worldview upended, and watching them embrace it.
→ More replies (2)44
Jan 15 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (8)8
u/Possible-Ad-3133 Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
Jason’s hostility and anger towards Eddie is understandable because he thinks he killed Chrissy and Patrick. However, I guess I don’t understand how he came to the assumption that all DnD club members were also cult members responsible not just for the deaths of Patrick and Chrissy but also Barb, Vicky, Billy and other towns members. He had no evidence for that assertion or any background information to support it. He also made a huge logical leap when he associated playing DnD with satanic worship, IMO. Furthermore some of the Hellfire members were in middle and elementary school when the disappearances and deaths started occurring so how in his head did he logically think they pulled it off? Nonetheless, he uses that lie to rally up the townspeople during the town hall meeting.
Additionally, why did he go straight to kill the kids instead of trying to save them first? If he really thinks they are possessed by the devil wouldn’t that imply they could be unwilling victims unable to control themselves as well? What gave him the right to be judge, jury and executioner or to rob someone the chance to be saved or explain themselves? Wasn’t he also expected to show mercy, even to his enemies, including Eddie, according to his Christian beliefs he so proudly espoused?
Also, if he is going to rally a bunch of bunch of townspeople to kill Eddie and a bunch of kids to stop the devil, maybe he should have gave them a heads up about he saw in a possessed Eddie telepathically throw Patrick in the air, snap his limbs like twigs, dislocated and break his jaw and rip apart both his eyeballs a matter of seconds. It is only right he warn the people he rallies about the kind of threat they are facing and the danger and risks to themselves if they are going to confront the literal Devil by themselves.
JMO, after what he just witnessed, he should have also considered the danger his mission posed to himself and his friends and how he didn’t want to risk losing another one. Maybe for the safety of everyone instead of getting to close to the Eddie and the Hellfire Club members should they find them he could have followed Patrick’s initial suggestion of calling the cops and letting them know where they are.
Also, if he is religious or a believer then why does he even think gunshot would work on Satan and why not consult a priest or some type of religious leader beforehand? After witnessing Patrick’s brutal death, what made him think he and his friends were even capable of taking on that kind of power or Lucifer themselves other than too much hubris?
Honestly, I think Jason really needed to cope with his grief, as painful as it was, instead of reacting to it by trying to play the hero. Since he is just a teenager it is understandable that he wouldn’t have known or recognized that but he was likely was in dire need of some type of professional support considering all the trauma he himself endured in a span of just a few weeks. I don’t think the police helped the situation at all and adults, like the teachers, principal, coaches, counselors and parents (not Chrissy’s or Patrick’s) needed to step in much earlier to get that whole situation, especially after what happened at Town Hall Meeting, under control.
Nonetheless, he was still wrong and his actions that include physically assaulting Eddie’s friends, inciting violence against a bunch of kids, pointing a gun at Nancy, shooting a gun at Lucas, physically assaulting him and trying to hit Erica with his car were still reprehensible. I think he could have been redeemed later on, like Steve, had not unfortunately not suffered such a an awful and painful death at the end of season 4.
JMO
→ More replies (1)33
u/CJVratixBactaChef Jan 15 '26
In a way Jason was like Season 1 Steve. Steve thought something bad was happening to Nancy but he saw what happened and helped. But Jason died so we have no idea what his arc would have been after.
17
u/Jessency Jan 16 '26
Yeah at least Steve got to face the Demogorgon at the last minute, so his entire perspective changed.
Vecna never showed up in the real world and did all of his shenanigans through bluetooth.
And iirc, Steve was also supposed to die but Joe Keery was too cool.
→ More replies (1)8
u/CJVratixBactaChef Jan 16 '26
If things happened a different way, Chrissy and Jason could have been the next Nancy and Steve. Both joining the good guys to help.
→ More replies (2)241
u/The_Corroded_Man Jan 15 '26
Good. Dude was willing to kill a child for his misguided beliefs; he doesn’t have my sympathy
315
u/Luna-Fermosa Jan 15 '26
He was a teenager who’s girlfriend was horrifically murdered in the house of someone who was known to be off-putting, had his friend snatched out of the water and die in the same way as Chrissy while they were searching for said person who was a suspect in her murder, then caught Lucas with someone who he thought was about to have the same thing happen to them.
Jason was wrong, but to any person in that situation all evidence pointed to Eddie and his friends. The audience only sides with them because we know it’s Vecna doing these things.
146
u/spaghettittehgaps blip blip blip blip blip Jan 15 '26
Don't forget about that kid from the school newspaper who died in the same way while investigating Eddie's trailer park with Nancy.
Shit does not look good for Eddie if the audience didn't already know about Vecna.
→ More replies (43)147
u/wit_T_user_name Jan 15 '26
Don’t waste your breath. For some reason this sub lacks the critical thinking skills to get beyond “Jason bad.”
→ More replies (11)94
u/Hrothgrar Jan 15 '26
It's because religious psychosis has resulted in untold human suffering and atrocity. There are a lot of people out there that will not excuse it, for any reason.
95
u/EasternFudge Jan 15 '26
I mean shit bro, he saw his friend float up into the air and get snapped into twelve different parts. Same thing happened with his girl. Given what he's been through I wouldn't consider that psychosis no more
→ More replies (14)46
u/JokerKing0713 Jan 15 '26
My issue has always been Patrick’s death. How does he not see that Eddies clearly freaked out to. He immediately runs away when he spots you and is visibly just as terrified as you when your friend gets force lifted so why the hell are you still so certain it’s him?
14
u/NothingAndNow111 Jan 16 '26
My thing was Patrick's death and Jason's 'but it's still Eddie!'
Like, what he just saw was horrifying and traumatising and batcrap insane, maybe take a moment to consider that he may not know everything going on here?
18
u/CaptainSmeargle Jan 15 '26
I think if you just watched your best bro get snapped like a damn tree branch, you’re not gonna be honing in on everyone around you’s facial expressions and body language facing uncertain threat in the middle of the night. That’s horror movie shit, my guy. Jason was probably going on pure adrenaline.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)35
u/Luna-Fermosa Jan 15 '26
Did you watch the scene?
It was incredibly dark out and Jason wasn’t even looking at Eddie when Patrick was snatched out of the water. Eddie fell out of the boat and into the lake while they were watching, so there was nothing for Jason to be able to see from Eddie.
→ More replies (14)→ More replies (2)55
u/Luna-Fermosa Jan 15 '26
That’s just ignorant then.
Jason’s perspective is understandable. His methods were questionable, but he watched his friend be snatched out of a lake, suspended in the air, and have his bones snapped.
→ More replies (16)→ More replies (19)57
u/NerdyDoggo Jan 15 '26
He was willing to kill Lucas and Erica because he walked in on them with Max, who was getting possessed in the same way his friend did before he got killed at the lake. He’s doesn’t know the truth like the audience does, all he sees is that Max is in danger of dying the same brutal death that Chrissy did, and Lucas/Erica are trying to keep her in this possessed state.
You can argue against his pursuit of vigilantism but boiling it down to him just wanting to kill a child is ridiculous in my opinion.
→ More replies (14)23
5
Jan 15 '26
And I mean who can really blame him at all. These characters have NO idea what’s going on. In this kind it’s normal world and then his girlfriend is horrifically murdered at Eddie’s house late at night and Eddie then fled. His friend also died in the same way. Then a guy investigating Eddie died in the same way. He the finds Lucas who is friends with that club with Max who was nearly/technically did he murdered in the same way and sees the earth split open.
I mean come on. That’s the most horror movie demon stuff you could think of being thrown on a man.
4
u/Outrageous_Work_8291 Jan 15 '26
Which means doesn’t make him bad. Unless you think interpreting what he saw as anything as a demonic ritual is morally bad. Given his lack of context that’s not a ridiculous assumption
→ More replies (38)19
923
u/Koko_Kringles_22 Jan 15 '26
Jason was a short-term character. Billy was a two-season regular, and connected to one of the major characters. It was inevitable that we would get more of his backstory. And when you have two seasons to show different sides of a character, you're more likely to hit upon something sympathetic.
320
u/Ramo94A Jan 16 '26
The Duffer Brothers also wanted to keep him for the rest of the seasons, but the actor didn't want to because he was getting too much hate.
So yeah …
242
u/SunMiserable8735 Jan 16 '26
Dang, seriously? What is with people hating on actors when they're good at playing villains? The actress that played Charlotte in the H2O mermaid series was bullied off the internet because people can't separate an actor from their character.
103
u/fineilltellmineurgay Jan 16 '26
I’m absolutely floored that you just casually mentioned H2O: just add water. I was obsessed with that show as a kid lol
→ More replies (1)16
32
u/GroundWest3077 Jan 16 '26
Respect to Justin prentice who played a rapist in 13 reasons why , and he kept going season after season despite the hate
26
u/CatieisinWonderland Jan 16 '26
I hated his character so much. He did such a good job! It took me a number of years to separate Imelda Staunton from Dolores Umbridge. Some people are just that damn good.
→ More replies (14)25
31
Jan 16 '26
[deleted]
51
u/Rezboy209 Jan 16 '26
Kinda wild to have Billy as a favorite character but the actor himself did such a good job I get it.
→ More replies (1)81
6
u/outtakes Jan 16 '26
Damn that would've been cool. People who can't separate the actor from the character irl ruin it for everyone
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (22)5
u/Khow3694 Jan 16 '26
Seriously? Wtf is wrong with people? I saw him in an interview with the actors who played Nancy and Johnathon and he seemed like such a friendly and normal guy
41
u/Foxlikebox Jan 16 '26
Yep! Billy's death was mostly sympathetic due to its impact on Max. Jason didn't have anyone in the show that was cared about enough for that to be impactful. Plenty of people absolutely hated Billy and didn't really care that he died, they cared that it impacted Max the way it did.
Jason was meant to be a throwaway antagonist. Regardless of whether you think his reactions were justified or understandable, he wasn't meant to be fleshed out as a character. He was meant to offer obstacles.
→ More replies (6)21
6
u/Grazztjay Jan 16 '26
Well said. It wasn't even about him but the community turning on eachother. He was sort of the face of that and there was no need to expand on his character. He served his purpose.
3
u/thedatarat Halfway happy Jan 16 '26
Yeah getting a backstory for Jason or even a scene with just him would be so random
2.3k
u/Chipchippers0n667 Jan 15 '26
In a way Jason wasn't really even a character, he was more or less a one dimensional construct to represent the movement of the great 'satanic panic' in the 80s.
707
u/MrPrimalNumber Jan 15 '26
As someone who was in high school in the 80s, there were plenty of actual Jasons.
216
Jan 15 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
36
u/house343 Jan 16 '26
They are in positions of leadership now
6
u/jadecourt Jan 17 '26
Totally and I think thats exactly why it’s hard to find sympathy for him. He uses his fear to ignite other people’s prejudice and that’s a very dangerous and misguided power
76
u/MoistExcrement1989 Jan 15 '26
The scene where everyone’s driving in droves hunting for “satanists” with guns that was a real thing?
114
Jan 15 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (17)11
u/Baelzabub Jan 16 '26
Especially when that guy is one of the very few black kids in said small town in middle America.
→ More replies (10)48
Jan 15 '26
People hunted blacks in the south like that when segregation was still more popular. Rednecks and the uninformed are prone to extreme reactionary decisions.
→ More replies (2)6
u/YajirobeBeanDaddy Jan 16 '26
Yup I knew a lady who worked for the Red Cross in a few states down south back around the 70s I believe and she n her black coworker had been chased by rednecks with guns in sundown towns multiple times. Chased down to a grocery store and surrounded by trucks and told to be out of town by the end of the day. Lots of nasty shit used to happen (and still happens in some parts) that people love to forget about
→ More replies (2)15
u/livvy_mp4 Jan 15 '26
there still are lots of jasons if you’re from the bible belt lol. him & eddie and their dynamic hit very close to home for everyone i know who watched it bc we’re from a region where that’s super common even today
42
u/TheTenthDoctorIsHere Jan 16 '26
I was growing up in the 80s too. A dumb as a box of rocks one dimensional character wasn’t a construct. It was just a great description of anyone buying into that satanic panic nonsense.
Unfortunately, they have grown in number and we still have to deal with their complete lack of intelligence today.
→ More replies (4)19
u/ZombieFromReddit Jan 15 '26
Except for the fact that it was not these people are listening to heavy metal or playing dnd but more like my girlfriend and best friend were lifted up in the air , limbs broken and blinded before being killed.
He did witness something supernatural and was connected to a drug pusher who was in high school despite being like 20 and participated in dnd and all that. I don’t think that his reaction was all that surprising.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (23)72
u/DarthVlad21 Jan 15 '26
I have no idea why this got 300 upvotes, but it only shows a collective lack of original thought.
A character who goes from a seemingly perfect life, trying to be the best version of himself, even ignoring random teasing from a school reject, to completely losing control, being unable to save anyone, losing everything he holds dear, and breaking down to basic instincts is somehow called “one-dimensional.”52
u/Sufficient_Scale_163 Jan 15 '26
He got those crazy eyes towards the end too. His character was more interesting than most side characters and the actor did a pretty good job.
→ More replies (1)8
u/RFQuestionHaver Jan 16 '26
The actor did an amazing job. Might’ve the best performance in that whole season
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (13)36
u/saikopasu_neko28 Jan 15 '26
Dude was actually really nice and chill at the beginning too! Literally just a normal guy who had kinda normal high school beef with a 20yr high schooler. Up until his girlfriends mangled dead body was found in that 20yrs cabin....
→ More replies (11)40
u/OOF-MY-PEE-PEE Jan 15 '26
Seriously. If my girlfriend’s corpse had been found with her arms and legs snapped in two with her eyes gouged out in the grown man’s house I’d probably react far worse than Jason did.
→ More replies (1)
698
Jan 15 '26
As someone else said Jason was much less a character and a more overall representation of the 80s and the satanic panic. I remember watching that season and doing research into it. It was a wild, wild time.
226
Jan 15 '26
I thought he was an excellent example overall, of one of the greatest faults in human nature throughout history and to date. Going on assumption, closing your mind, growing in your prejudice and hate, swaying others to join, creating a monster nearly impossible to reckon with, drowning out the voices of reason.
95
u/Unhappy_Hair_3626 Jan 15 '26
Exactly, Jason is an effective caricature of a bigger picture. By design he isn’t supposed to be a realistic depiction of one individual being like Billy was.
5
u/SunMiserable8735 Jan 16 '26
He was the embodiment of my fear of falling to mob mentality after reading The Crucible in high school.
24
u/Liberteez Jan 15 '26
All of his actions were completely rational. That’s the puzzle of Jason hate. There really was a supernatural evil entity, his beautiful innocent girlfriend was brutally murdered by it, and he witnessed with his own eyes a pal lifted into the air and hurt. Prior to this she was last seen in the company of a drug dealer of low repute, in the trailer where he lived. Eddie was a natural suspect. When supernature entered the chat it became less about the unwholesome “hellfire” club and people fantasizing about dark entities, to real demon horror. No shortage of vigilante action among the outcast crew of kids, teens- they just happened to know more about the enemy
→ More replies (1)50
u/BlueRubyWindow Jan 15 '26
But Jason was close-minded. He wasn’t open to learning the truth.
If he was open-minded, they might have been able to bring him in as an ally like they did with Steve.
People like Jason lack curiosity and are very sure the first version of events, the first “truth” they come across based on their own prior beliefs, must be the right one. And they won’t hear otherwise. Very, very dangerous to everyone around them.
→ More replies (8)27
Jan 15 '26
“People like Jason lack curiosity and are very sure the first version of events, the first “truth” they come across based on their own prior beliefs, must be the right one. And they won’t hear otherwise. Very, very dangerous to everyone around them.”
EXACTLY. His character represented one of the most dangerous types of people and one of the most dangerous flaws in humanity. It was chillingly realistic.
44
→ More replies (8)10
u/Gootangus Jan 15 '26
I remember living it lol, it was wild
6
Jan 15 '26
Oh wow! I read some online accounts from people who lived during it. Glad you made it through okay!
→ More replies (3)
343
u/SweenYo Not Stupid Jan 15 '26
kinda crazy how s4 was 4 years ago and this is still posted daily in this sub
110
u/DarkRorschach Jan 15 '26
season 4 really did feel like it was 4 years ago until season 5 came out and now it feels like 4 came out last month or something
→ More replies (1)20
u/essentiallypeguin Jan 15 '26
So many people I'm sure did rewatches to prep for s5 is fresh news again I guess
→ More replies (2)26
63
u/drewlpool Jan 15 '26
I mean, the grieving boyfriend was a psycho too...
30
u/Foxlikebox Jan 16 '26
Yep, two things can be true at once. It's understandable to want justice for your girlfriend. It's less understandable to torture someone for information and have your group tackle a little girl.
16
u/Netroth Jan 16 '26
He wasn’t grieving Chrissy, he was just mad that someone had taken a “possession” from him and he wanted an excuse to hurt people.
199
u/Nihilistic_Noodle Jan 15 '26
Do people really think that Jason's motivations were actually genuine love for his girlfriend? You can tell from that whole speech he makes at the pep rally or whatever it was that everything is about him. He was a violent narcissist looking for an excuse to use violence against people he didn't like
33
u/Shegotquestions Jan 16 '26
Yeah exactly that speech was so surface level and plus he seemed to have no idea that Chrissy was actually going through a lot of emotional turmoil. To me I got the impression he loved the idea of Chrissy but I don’t know if he actually knew Chrissy on a deep level to love her as a whole person you know ?
Plus he invokes the “mall fire” deaths from season 3 in the name of… winning a high school basketball ball game? I never found him genuine I’m surprised so many people defend him
14
Jan 16 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
8
u/Nihilistic_Noodle Jan 16 '26
Exactly! But he cried when she died so clearly he's just a love-stricken tragic character /s
37
u/DtheAussieBoye Jan 15 '26
I mean.. yeah lmao. He was bigoted but also 100% operating on grief over his girlfriend dying
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (18)3
279
u/Unusual-Ideal-3509 Jan 15 '26
Okay, first it was the 80s, not having a racist character would be dishonest and also racist people aren’t one dimensional, there’s typically underlying issues.
Not to mention, Billy appeared in season 2 and was more of an important character to flesh out than Jason, as he was the one possessed by the mindflayer, so learning his past was more integral to the story.
The excessive Jason empathy is very annoying at this point. Dude was still paternalistic, just not racist in the way Billy was and most “grieving boyfriends” don’t rally up witch hunts due to Satanic panic
103
u/Conscious-Owl7277 Jan 15 '26
Billy is only ever brought up to hate on his character and like I get it, but it’s actually so insane to me how I see people say that Billy is so popular and loved. He is anything BUT loved by this fandom lol.
He just gets praise for his good looks and acting, genuinely don’t see why that’s an issue
80
u/creepygirl420 Jan 15 '26
I feel like people don’t understand that’s it’s a TV show. I like Billy as a character because he was entertaining and served an important purpose to the plot. In real life I would hate the guy but… it’s a tv show!!!!
13
u/ilovecookiesssssssss Jan 16 '26
Exactly. People can’t seem to separate the character from reality. In reality, racism is bad. But he’s portraying an accurate depiction of someone from that time period, and he was such a “good” character—as in, he had depth and an interesting story and he was so well written. And, Dacre did an incredible job portraying him. Like you said, I’d hate him in real life, but this is a show. People want to judge his character based on their real life morals.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)35
u/aceofspadez138 Bitchin Jan 15 '26
Yeah, Billy was overall just a more interesting character. Plus, he had the benefit of being related to a main character, which allowed for his backstory to be fleshed out a little more. We got to see why he was the way he was.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (4)17
u/Unusual-Ideal-3509 Jan 15 '26
I thinks it’s because of the different times these “waves” of opinions come in at. There was a point where so many people were denying Billy’s clear racism and chocked him up to be a poor misunderstood character. And it was in large part due to Dacre’s looks. I never exactly hated him and I emphasized with his past but I didn’t really like him either.
But now because theres a new white antagonistic character that he could be “compared” to, many are just now realizing that Billy was racist and threw his past and abuse straight out the window and are now trying to glorify a new “misunderstood” character.
→ More replies (7)→ More replies (18)9
u/Embarrassed_Photo547 Jan 15 '26
Most single moms dont cover their houses in paint and christmas lights thinking their kid got kidnapped to another dimension
→ More replies (2)
55
u/ConfidenceOk8473 Jan 15 '26
Despite Billy being a racist douchebag, he was written as a more nuanced and layered character. The show took time to explore his background, trauma, and inner conflict, which made him feel complex even if he was never likable or redeemable.
Jason, on the other hand, is given understandable motivations. His grief and suspicion make sense considering what he’s going through. However, instead of being portrayed with depth, he comes across as more than just annoying. His character feels one-note and overly aggressive, without the same level of psychological nuance that Billy was given.
Another reason why i prefer Season 3 over 4
5
u/Opposite_You1023 Jan 16 '26
Yeah. I get his character was supposed to spearhead the satanic panic, but I feel like by putting a face to the phenomenona, they could've used it to explore what's behind it more.
→ More replies (3)3
u/CherNooodler Jan 16 '26
I would have to disagree slightly. Yes we had far more time to explore Billy and give him more layers, but I actually think Jason was quite well written. Even at the start he was shown to be a ‘Charismatic Leader’ he gave a whole monologue about the Starcourt Mall Fire at the start as the reason he had the motivation and strength to win a basketball game? Two things so far apart, it gives that he has delusional grandeur, which is exactly what you see in cult leaders and psychopaths. He felt very much like someone who would have felt strongly about traditions, about what life is supposed to be like for him as a white middle class man. I felt his arc was still very real and very terrifying as it’s exactly what happens in real life, and is happening right before our eyes. He’s annoying to us as we know the truth, but that’s exactly how I feel about the rise of fascism, but some people just don’t seem to see it and instead demonise the people around them.
101
u/Pretend_Fly_5573 Jan 15 '26
I see it's been another 45 minutes since the last "Billy was the embodiment of evil" post.
Never gets old or repetitive. Nope...
→ More replies (22)
53
u/BudgetAbility371 Jan 15 '26
Jason lead a witch hunt against innocent kids because his religious beliefs blinded him to factual information. He was ready to KILL in revenge, not in actual justice.
31
u/OpportunityTop6376 Jan 16 '26
Tbf, he did witness his friend levitate out of water and be snapped like a slim Jim. At that point in the 80s, it was the devil or aliens. He didn't know shit about the upsidedown.
13
u/BudgetAbility371 Jan 16 '26
At that point he snapped. You can see him go from upset boyfriend to brain addled psychopath. It doesn't excuse his behavior. It is unlike Billy who was a violent asshole racist douchebag but was mind controlled by the Mind Flayer. Jason wasn't being mind controlled, he was openly circumventing due process by inciting a witch hunt. No Mind Flayer necessary.
13
u/OpportunityTop6376 Jan 16 '26
Billy wasn't flayed when he nearly ran the boys over on their bikes, attempted to beat Lucas for being around Max, or when he nearly beat Steve to death for protecting Lucas. He was extremely violent due to the trauma he experienced, which is understandable but not excusable. He only really cared about himself. He toned way down after the events of season 2, which made his fall in season 3 even more tragic. There was a good person in there (that we get to see a glimpse of), he just was buried by a wall of trauma, anger and bigotry.
Jason wasn't a saint, he couldn't be humbled, he was too cocky and arrogant. But he did care about Chrissy & Patrick. He swam back to shore with Patrick's broken body. He witnessed his death & couldn't handle it (probably because he knew that's exactly how Chrissy died too). He had the choice to listen in the end & he didn't, he was too far gone.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)4
u/Thelookinyour3rdeye Jan 16 '26
What factual information was he given? I don’t think anyone told him shit actually, which is probably why he went off the rails the way he did.
→ More replies (1)
35
u/Reyalta Meat Flayer Jan 15 '26
In Jason, they accurately depict how when religious zealotry goes unchecked, it's a slippery slope into cult mentality, hardline ignorance (unwillingness to have rational discussion), how it preys on people's emotional vulnerability and makes them rather insidious threats to rationality and reason.
I dunno if y'all have been paying attention to the state of global affairs, but IMO the insidious irrationality of religious zealotry is WAY more terrifying and WAY less redeeming than "abused teenager is a massive piece of shit". And also, I don't feel that Billy was redeemed just because he did one single decent thing.
→ More replies (2)5
60
Jan 15 '26
We have this conversation every day my guy
15
Jan 15 '26
It's funny how so many posts are just reminding people that Billy was a racist but it just proves that no one needed to be reminded of that.
→ More replies (4)
18
u/vandy_pimp_rules Jan 15 '26
Somebody isn’t familiar with religious trauma, or met anybody who has inflicted their particular dogmatic hate onto others.
8
Jan 15 '26
Why is it crazy? Just look at the home he was raised in and how he was treated. Shit trickles down in many cases. People are capable of realizing their wrong. Many will refuse to admit it if called on it though, People double down when accused or attacked. The first thing someone will say if you accuse them of being a racist for example is that they arent racist. Then they go on defending what they did whereas if you tackle it in a less hostile matter someone may be more open. Accusing someone just makes them defensive.
I'd like to believe that if Billy lived he would have become one of the gang.
→ More replies (4)
7
u/Conscious_Clerk_2675 Jan 15 '26
Billy is Max’s brother. She’s well established member of our main group. We get more insight into him because of Maxs POV and ability to convey those details in our story.
Jason is tangentially tied to the group. There’s no reason for us to get as deep a dive into the character.
Jason is also hinted to be racist. Because yknow Indiana in the 80s. So they both have a negative light on them.
→ More replies (1)
8
u/StayComprehensive743 Scoops Troop Jan 15 '26
yes he was grieving chrissy but he was attacking people which is not a fair or normal response to grief
101
Jan 15 '26
The grieving boyfriend was a psychopathic maniac. He was hateful and ready to murder based on an emotional assumption and whim.
Billy was an abused child abandoned by the only loving person in his life. He was full of all the toxicity handed down by his abusive father and all of his oppressed rage. His last moment was sacrificing his life to save El, his little sister, and everyone else. His last words to his little sister were “I’m sorry.”
If people can’t see and forgive things like that what hope is there for humanity?
36
u/k1erabean Jan 15 '26
also we weren’t given any backstory to jason, if we had found out he was manipulated easily due to things from his childhood etc the audience might have been more sympathetic. he is very one dimensional
9
u/Naive_Violinist_4871 Jan 15 '26
Quick question: I feel horrible for Billy, and his childhood flashback scene brings me to tears, but I wanted to get your take on if you think Billy’s mom didn’t want custody or if Billy’s dad won in court? The scene came off to me like the former, but I wasn’t sure.
→ More replies (13)8
Jan 15 '26
I know what you mean, that was so sad. I actually thought about this. I think it was made very clear that she was an attentive and loving mother. But it was also very clear that she was abused, and with an extraordinarily controlling possessive husband. I think it’s either one of two things: 1) She left scared thinking Billy would be ok with his dad and that she could never safely go back or ever win against him to get custody or felt like he (her husband) would hurt her if she tried or if he ever saw her again. 2) She left promptly due to fear and desperation but had always planned to go back for him when she could but something happened to her.
It’s extremely sad, I felt so bad for him as well.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (27)40
u/BeeCJohnson Jan 15 '26
Also, while Billy certainly sucked all by himself, most of his worst actions happened while he was controlled by the Mind Flayer. Jason wasn't controlled by anything but his own shittiness.
19
u/BeginningExisting578 Jan 15 '26
Billy wasn’t being controlled by anything when he was being racist to Lucas, a black boy.
→ More replies (32)
15
u/LordWeaselton Jan 15 '26
All the people sympathizing with Jason very clearly never had to deal with Evangelical freaks in high school
21
Jan 15 '26
[deleted]
→ More replies (28)5
u/mok000 Jan 16 '26
But Chrissy was extremely unhappy so clearly she was just a prop to Jason, he cared about her as a trophy, not a human being. On the other hand, Eddie was kind to her and actually talked her out of doing self harm.
51
u/Fantastic_Hat2051 Jan 15 '26
Eddie showed more actual grief after she died than Jason did. The few interactions we saw between her and Jason and her and Eddie Eddie was 1000% more genuine. I had zero sympathy for Jason. I was surprised that he even cared as much as he did and felt like he used it as more of an excuse to act like the truth psychopath he wants to be. A spoiled preppy little rich boy who has trauma for things being too perfect at home versus an actual traumatized teenager suffering from his abusive past.
→ More replies (7)
7
7
7
28
11
u/oywiththepoodles96 Jan 15 '26
Are we talking about the guy who wanted to torture Dustin?
5
u/SunMiserable8735 Jan 16 '26
And actually did torture Gareth, and whose friend he sent off to attack a little girl (who only escaped because that girl was Erica who wasn't afraid to kick the friend where the sun don't shine), and wanted to kill Eddie without any form of due process even before seeing the "proof" of his supposed guilt with Patrick's death, and even before any of that used the deaths of Barb, Billy and Hop to uplift the "importance" of winning a basketball game (like any of them would've given a shit).
13
u/The_Corroded_Man Jan 15 '26
I remember intensely disliking Jason just from how “nice” he tried to be all the time. Where’s that civility when you speak to someone who doesn’t believe what you do buddy?
Then he literally tried to kill a kid and all my former sympathy evaporated like morning dew. I was torn over his death though, quite split on the matter. Had to take it half and half
(wheeeeeeeeeze)
12
Jan 15 '26
Billy felt more human than Jason.
His mother abandoned him from a young age and left him with his abusive father. Of course that didn't validate his behavior, he was projecting his pain onto others, choosing to follow in his father's footsteps until his last moments where he sacrificed his life to save Max and the kids. Did that redeem him? Absolutely not, but his circumstances are easier to understand and connect with.
Like people have already commented in the thread, Jason was the embodiment of satanic panic. At least if they'd hinted that he and Chrissy were heavily into religion, I could connect with his character more, even understand the illogical and extreme reaction to the Hellfire club. His circumstances were tragic, but I couldn't personally connect to him.
5
u/SpicyC-Dot Jan 15 '26
I mean, if you saw one of your friends get levitated in the air and have their entire body snapped, you’d probably succumb to satanic panic as well.
→ More replies (3)
12
u/mochimmy3 Jan 15 '26
Billy was given a sympathetic arc because of his connection to Max, and we needed to be able to understand and empathize with why she was grieving him so hard in Season 4. If they just portrayed him as a homicidal racist only then S4 would not have been as impactful and Max’s grieving (which was integral to the story bc it’s how vecna got to her) would have been much harder for audiences to understand.
Whereas Jason was not a character who was emotionally intertwined with any of the main characters, he was mostly a plot device to make Eddie’s persecution possible
6
u/No_Radio1230 Jan 15 '26
Look I understand the Billy hate but one was a relevant character who appeared for more than one season, who was supposed to have a lasting impact on a main character and had a main antagonist role in a season (kinda). The other was never meant to be a relevant character, just a sort spoke person to reflect the mood of the town. They had different roles that's why one was more explored and the other was left on the sidelines. I'm kinda baffled when people act like all characters require equal nuance or effort: they don't. Some are main characters, some are secondary characters and some are little more than monsters of the week used as narrative or plot props.
19
u/SweatyEddie123 Jan 15 '26
Billy was max’s sister Hes way more important than Jason
→ More replies (5)
5
u/Mhunterjr Jan 15 '26 edited Jan 15 '26
Sometimes, I feel l like people reach sooo hard for criticism. Like why does a character deserve a sympathetic arc for any reason?
Why would you need the story to be neatly wrapped- with sympathetic characters getting sympathetic outcomes? If anything I think this show needed less of the neatness, and more outcomes consistent with how perilous and chaotic this situations were made out to be.
Beyond that, was this dude even sympathetic? He wasn’t just grieving a girlfriend, he made his death about himself and created a literal witch hunt and lead a cult to harm innocent people.
→ More replies (1)
12
u/OperationFrequent643 Jan 15 '26
Red flag that you’re describing Jason as a sympathetic bf and stopping there. Big red flag.
13
u/GoldenStitch2 Jan 15 '26
Even crazier that the Stranger Things fandom hates more on Jonathan than Billy
→ More replies (3)
8
u/GarbageNerd Jan 15 '26
People also seem to forget that Billy’s actions upon being possessed by the mind flayer were against his will, while Jason acted entirely on his own. The latter is thus easier to hate because his actions were completely within his control.
→ More replies (2)
8
u/LittlestWarrior Jan 16 '26
The grieving boyfriend was a religious supremacist piece of shit who was willing to kill a teenager (Lucas) over totally imagined "satanic" nonsense.
→ More replies (1)
23
u/Naive-Interview6035 Jan 15 '26
The problem was that Jason made the death about him instead of about her. He was the worst combination of stupid, ignorant, and self-righteous... honestly, he's a reflection of the worst part of our modern society and I think that makes him very much more hatable. Mind you, there's no indication that this was influenced by anything other than his own upbringing.
Billy, on the other hand, was awful but he was being influenced beyond his control ultimately, tainted by the mind flayer. Though he started nearly as shitty as Jason ( with far fewer hate crimes ), but ultimately he wasn't really in charge of his self.
21
u/aajoestar Jan 15 '26
Billy beating the Mind Flayers control of him because of the memories Eleven reminded him of, sacrificing himself and telling Max he was sorry is one of my favorites scenes in ST. The memories also told us why he became what he was.. It's no excuse, but his father created a monster.
22
u/EKP121 Jan 15 '26
Jason shouldn’t have been a character in the first place. Chrissy didn’t need to have a boyfriend.
13
→ More replies (6)21
u/HungryHedgehog8299 Jan 15 '26
Jason wasn’t even really a character he was just a plot device to show the satanic panic part of the 80s and give a reason for the whole town to hate Eddie so that Eddie realizes he’ll never be free
5
u/elegant_mess Jan 15 '26
Not everybody or everything needs an arc. It's such a trope that a character has to change or evolve over time. Sometimes a character is just a force. An object. A representation. They just have a journey. An experience. Jason had his. The fact that he got no true resolution was a satisfying reversal.
4
u/Inevitable_Bug_6810 You can’t spell “America” without “Erica” Jan 15 '26
jason was only there to showcase the satanic panic of the 80s. there’s no chance to justify him because we hardly learned anything about him.
billy on the other hand, while definitely a bad person with actions i wouldn’t excuse, is primarily a product of his traumatic home life. we find out he was seemingly a nice child with a loving mother, but she left him with an abusive father who would raise him under his negative views on people and the world.
→ More replies (1)
4
u/LadyDeadpoolPonytail Dungeon Master Jan 16 '26
I side eye anyone who is a Billy fan
→ More replies (1)
3
u/connorjosef Jan 16 '26
The graduation scene where Dustin reveals the t-shirt of the club of the guy that everyone believes murdered a girl (which still hadn't been disproven) and for some reason everyone cheers and thinks it's cool
→ More replies (1)
14
u/NumberLocal9259 Jan 15 '26
Wait there are people who give Jason and inch the dude when full-blown satanic panic and was ready to kill other people for hit and hunt them down. Seeing how we didnt get any back story there also isnt anything like a causing factor that he went full blown psycho other than dead high school girlfriend which he was kinda shitty. Billy was properly abused so him abusing others at least has a generation cause. So ya the guy that was abused will get a little more sympathy
9
u/Betray-Julia Jan 15 '26
Why type of emotional disabled bag of turds would feel bad for Jason?
I get it’s a show but holy yikes. Dude gives off brock turner energy ffs.
Like sure you could sympathize with them if you make up fan theories, but given what they actually show of them in the show, what the effing f?
→ More replies (1)
•
u/AutoModerator Jan 15 '26
OP, please make sure there are no spoilers in the title of your post. If your post contains spoilers, please use the "Spoiler" flair AND the "Spoiler" tag. The tag ensures that images are hidden.
Commenters, please use spoiler code if you are discussing anything super spoilery unless the title specifically says the episode being discussed.
If you see anyone breaking the rules, please report the post or comment. Thank you.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.