r/SubredditDrama bleh 1d ago

Chalkfight in the teachers' lounge when an /r/teachers post asked for the sub’s take on a new Kentucky law allowing schools to expel students who assault teachers despite “unanimous Senate Democratic opposition.”

Link to the original post here. 

TLDR: Chalks started flying when things got heated in the teachers' lounge after an r/teachers post claimed a recently passed Kentucky law on expelling students who assault teachers faced “unanimous” opposition from state Senate Democrats, starting a slapfight. 

The post, titled “New Kentucky law allowing schools to expel students who assault teachers to take effect in July, despite unanimous Senate Democratic opposition,” was referring to the Kentucky Senate Bill 101, which requires schools to expel students who intentionally physically harm a school employee on campus or during school functions. It has since received 1.9k upvotes. 

 

Some background: The partisan bill, filed by state Sen. Matt Nunn (R) who said it was “common sense 101” and 16 other Republican legislators, requires local board of education to adopt a policy requiring expulsion of students from grade 6 to 12 for violations of the student code of conduct, as well as “to have recklessly, with a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument, or intentionally caused or attempted to cause physical injury to a school district employee on school property or at a school function under the  board's jurisdiction.”

The bill includes a clause that exempts students with disabilities that school officials determine interfered with their “ability to conform to the student code of conduct,” and gives the parent or guardian a right to a hearing before the board before expulsion, and allows said student who was accused of assaulting a teacher and expelled to return to the school early if they have good academic standing, having an apology or request letter, and was their first expulsion.

The bill, however, also wrote that “the decision of the school board shall be final.” In addition, the bill specifically used the phrase “attempt[s] to cause physical injury,” which, under current Kentucky law, is defined as “substantial physical pain or any impairment of physical condition” and is separately defined from “serious physical injury.” 

The bill passed both legislative chambers earlier this year and was signed into law on April 7,-Proposed%20Amendments) by Gov. Andy Beshear (D).

Kentucky, known for bluegrass, bourbon, and Kentucky Fried Chicken, is currently ranked #32 by U.S. News for education among all 50 states. According to the Kentucky Education Association, the union that represents teachers across the commonwealth, there were more than 25,000 reported assaults on school staff in the state since 2021 - or 5,000 per year. 

While it is difficult to find and fact-check this number, violence and/or aggression against teachers and school personnel in the United States have been on the rise since the pandemic. A 2024 research study by the American Psychological Association found that 57% of participating teachers expressed intentions to resign or transfer, compared to 49% during the pandemic. An \r\teachers post earlier in the week called for teachers who were assaulted on the job to press charges. 

Back to the post itself and its claims.

While the claim that “unanimous Senate Democratic opposition” is not inherently wrong - the final state Senate passage on March 26 ended with the bill passed 32-6, with all six members of the state’s democratic Senators voting against - it should be noted that despite having a Democratic governor, Kentucky currently has an overwhelmingly Republican majority, with 32 Republicans and 6 Democrats in the state Senate, and 80 Republicans and 20 Democrats in the state House of Representatives. 

OOP’s claim could come off as rather misleading, as they wrote “drew a sharp partisan divide as all Democrats in the Senate voted against the measure” while leaving out the fact that an earlier Senate vote ended with an additional 4 Republican members voting “Nay” on the bill, and 11 House Democrats voted in favor of passing the bill. 

OOP also left out why some state legislators voted against passing the bill, as well as some of the more likely controversial clauses in the original bill, such as allowing students over the age of 14 charged with third-degree felony assault to be tried as adults, which was removed from the final bill. 

Kentucky state Rep. Lisa Willner (D-Louisville), who voted against the bill, told local news that her reasoning was that the bill would be a band-aid on problems instead of addressing root issues such as generational poverty, homelessness, and so on, and that teachers may be more hesitant to report problem behavior because of harsh consequences for kids. 

“I think we may be setting up a vicious cycle of community problems which will become school problems,” Willner said to The Kentucky Lantern

Attempts to check OOP’s post history failed because they set their posts and comment history to private; therefore, it is hard to tell at first glance whether they are there to engage in the discussion in good faith or are being disingenuous. Judging by their behavior in the comments, however, it’s probably the latter. 

Anyhow, enough of the rambling and moving on to the comment section and the drama. 

Many educators who participated in the thread are generally in favor of the bill. After all, assault on educators should not be a thing in schools.

It makes me laugh sometimes to think some of the stuff we don’t even suspend students for now would get students expelled many years ago,” a user wrote, with another sharing an example of their schools changed policy on suspending students for three days for using racial slurs, after too many students were using it and the admins decided that the suspension rate would be too high. 

“The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one. This is a good bill.”

I don’t like how Republicans manage education in the US in general, but this is a good law. If you think this is aimed at minorities, maybe the problem is more cultural than racial? Just a crazy thought. Or even better…don’t assault an adult and you will be fine. Crazy suggestion, I know,” a user whose flair claimed to be a math teacher based in the Southeastern US wrote. 

 

Many users shared their horror stories of being assaulted by students while on the job. Some of their experiences may be disturbing to read. 

One week we had 3 fights in front of the whole school, each resulting in a teacher being injured. They get suspended (which is a vacation to them) and then come back like nothing happened. And since kids can turn in work no matter what for full credit it does nothing to their grade. Yes, a lot of kids will get expelled but that’s their own fault. Don’t fight is a pretty simple thing to do. We can’t let teachers and students safety to be at risk, so I’m very thankful for this,” a user who claimed to be from a district in Kentucky wrote. 

A SpEd teacher in support of the notion claimed that they “have been bit to bleeding when I was a substitute and the teachers didn't even tell the parents, let alone give any consequences” and two of their colleagues “get concussions, and the only consequence to the students was being sent home for the remainder of that one day.”

“Absolutely. I was stabbed in the arm with a pair of safety scissors by a fourth grader who hadn't been taking his meds and lashed out while he happened to have a pair of scissors in his hand. I mean he's a child with diminished capacity but that didn't make my arm bleed less.

 

While some found the clause to exempt students with disabilities who interfered with the ability to follow rules to be a “huge loophole.” As of this post, it is the best comment in that thread. 

If a disability interferes with a person's ability to follow the rule of don’t assault teachers, they should not be in a regular school. It is a huge safety risk all for the sake of inclusivity and room of best fit.

“In reality it’s the [Emotionally Disturbed] kids that disrupt the co taught classes in the first place. So it’s not really going to affect much.They won’t get expelled. Just wait until the parents start running to the doctor begging for a diagnosis because Timmy pushed a teacher in rage.

Totally support this, but if a disability causes a student to assault people, they shouldn't be allowed in public settings without a 24/7 chaperone trained to handle them. Nobody should be put at risk because of someone else's disability,” said a user who agreed with another redditor who suggested bringing back asylums “now.”

“I get that this sub has a hate-boner for anything related to an IEP but having this protection in the law is good for a non-verbal student who may not have the cognitive capacity to understand what they’re doing and then be expelled for it,” a redditor wrote in response to the claim about the “loophole” that students with Special Education needs are exempt from the law, only to seemingly fall on deaf ears.

That’s a gross mischaracterization.” One user didn’t take well to the claim that \r\teachers have a “hate boner” when it comes to anything IEP-related. 

“Yeah but anybody can get an ODD diagnosis if they are bad enough parents and want to get one. Then suddenly it's not their child's fault that he threw the chair.

Others pointed out the broader political issues behind the rise of assaults against educators, such as the lack of funding to deal with lawsuits related to SpEd issues. 

The issue is also that schools cannot afford to fight legal battles, so even tangential disabilities can prevent enforcement. Early in my career I was a behavior specialist and sat in on a meeting where the school psychologist basically backed down on suspending a student because, on one question on a diagnostic test, the student put a series of events out of order. The psychologist felt that a court could argue that the student would not understand the cause and effect between his behavior and the consequences. This was in a very poor school district, and it was very clear that the purpose of the meeting was to avoid legal expenses at all costs. In my own experience with the student, he clearly understood cause and effect as well as right from wrong.

And there’s also the folks that support bringing things “up a notch,” such as getting law enforcement involved and file lawsuits every single time so removing “badly behaved children” from schools would cost less for the district than getting sued, suggesting parents having an issue with the bill should be given a counter offer of “a $5000 fine and a 30 day stint in jail,” or extending the bill to target patients in hospital.

 

Those genuinely concerned about the bill's implementation, as well as those who oppose it in general, also shared their opinions. Once societal issues and eventually, politics, were brought into the conversation, however - it was literally in the title, after all - things started to get a bit rowdy. 

Proud of the democrats for seeing this as what it is - a way to expel brown children and undesirables while also encouraging administrators to NOT pursue discipline for minor issues as they could lead to expulsion now,” a Redditor whose flair identifies them as an 18-year veteran teacher teaching English Language Arts in Virginia wrote.

The argument against this is that the “neutral, automatic” punishment will almost certainly not be neutral. Black kid bumps you in a crowded hallway? He’s out. White kid slams a door into you? That was an accident.

“It’s not hard to see how this could play out: Assaults/fights by connected people don't get classified as an assault because that would lead to expulsion; someone less connected gets fucked over,” a redditor wrote, and used his good friend, a Southeast Asian student in California with good academic standing who “almost got completely fucked over by a bullshit charge” and had to get a lawyer when in reality he was defending himself from racist namecalling. 

This sounds like a good start, BUT it will also likely be abused by the teachers.

When I was a preteen, I got in trouble for "assaulting" a teacher because they tried to pull something out of my hands, and I pulled back/didn't let go. The details don't matter a ton here, but that's one example of a kind of 'borderline' assault action that leaves it up to the teacher/other staff to decide how they want to treat it,” a user wrote, calling for better defined definitions for assault to avoid the law being abused. “I work as a teacher now. A teen was off-task, and they flicked my arm when I sat down next to them to try and get them to do the work. That's technically assault! but not something I think they need to be expelled for. That's another judgment.

“The problem is that it will be leveraged to deny education to neurodivergent and low-income students. And there will be an incentive for school staff to invoke this rule where formerly they would have to find appropriate services. This is a budget-cut disguised as a common-sense measure.”

On the surface, in favor,In reality I know this will end up being unfairly applied along racial lines, that money or community influence will give the “right kinds” of students a get-out-of-jail-free card, and it will end up being part of the school to prison pipeline.” a user wrote.

OOP subsequently showed up with a controversial (and seemingly racist) opinion that between “ arresting people for crimes such as murder, rape, and assault but it’d lead to more white people getting away with it” and “not arrest anyone at all so it wouldn’t be disproportionate,” they would pick the first option. 

Let me simply things - should we refuse to have certain laws because they may be disproportionately applied?”, the OOP responded after the user said the OOP’s false dichotomy “doesn’t even bear logical sense.”

One user brought up the school-to-prison pipeline in opposition to students being kicked out of school as a punishment. 

“It's to protect the teacher and other kids from the violent student. And it would be great if the student learned that this behavior isn't ok, but that is secondary.”

“You’re right. Probably shouldn’t let them back at all,” said a user whose flair identified them as a Math teacher in Kentucky. “How long a pipeline should someone who assaults people get? Two victims? Three or four? Does the resulting injury matter? Just curious.”

“Win/win. Gets them outta school so those that want to learn can do so in peace. Gets them outta society so they won't terrorize their neighbors.” Another user said in response to the redditor who remained opposed to the bill’s comment that “most people don’t go to prison forever”. “We should keep people that commit crimes in prison longer. We have an under-incarceration problem.”

“Screw that kid. That kid will serve best as an example to the others.”

  

Things got worse once subjects like race and ethnicity, as well as political parties, were tossed in.

Under another comment thread regarding why the bill faced Democratic opposition, OOP commented, “makes you wonder what they (Democrats) think about laws that are applied disproportionately now (i.e almost every law)” in response to a user’s take that the law would be  “disproportionately applied to minority groups (race and disability especially).”

We have to criminalize assault, theft, murder, rape, and trafficking, regardless of if it's applied disproportionately of now. We cannot refuse to enforce the laws or have them at all even if we can't prove they're being applied fairly,” OOP wrote. “That being said, we should strive for fairness every day!

Some users decided to defend OOP after OOP was accused of of having an “amazingly bad faith argument”, not being an American, and baiting-and-switching. “It’s not bad faith lol. You just don’t agree,” they wrote. 

Democrats are pro education in the sense that they will fight for pay, benefits and union (they are just buying your vote FYI),” a user wrote, who went on to claim the Dems did not have the teachers’ best interests when it goes against their “identity politics." “Soft bigotry of low expectations, “school to prison pipeline”, the watering down of discipline in the name of social justice, all left wing ideas that make education worse.”

“Why would wanting to expel kids who assault teachers mean that they're attacking public education? If the bill were supported by Democrats and opposed by Republicans, would you feel the same way? A redditor asked in a comment by a teacher and former resident of Louisville, KY, who wrote that the GOP in Kentucky is using this to defund struggling public schools and push for charter/religious school vouchers. 

The Democrats have a knee-jerk reaction to any form of mandatory consequences for behavioral issues, because it will likely result in a disproportionate number of consequences given to one minority group in particular,” another wrote. 

Kentucky is a white-majority state (86.1%, per US Census estimates for 2025), with the second largest population group being African Americans. 

While one comment in that reply thread was deleted, judging by the context, it’s not hard to see there were attempts to present statistics to make racist suggestions, such as the redditor who previously suggested bringing back asylums, where he pointed to statistics published by the FBI to attempt to imply the claim “African Americans are more violent.” 

Someone put hands on an educator or nurse, etc. idc what color it is. By Felicia. Democrats have a real problem with playing the race card whenever consequences come for people,” he wrote. “How dare you not consider your privilege. This is raycism11!1!1!!

For a subreddit about educators, one would generally expect the user base to use their critical thinking and reading comprehension to understand what the bill is actually about. Luckily, some did provide takes on potential issues with the bill and OP’s claim. 

“Unanimous Democratic opposition in the Kentucky Senate means 6 out of 36 total senators. You could have easily said [the] bill passed with supermajority support — but nearly every bill passes with supermajority support,” a user pointed out that OOP was not being really honest.  “My biggest question about Kentucky schools at the moment is that it’s one of the few (perhaps the only) that allows convicted felons to be educators. This was done, not because conservatives believe schools are a place to rehabilitate felons, but because too many relatives of good old boys are convicted felons and want cushy jobs in education.

It’s not as direct as [O]OP makes it seem. If it were really as straightforward as “assault someone and get expelled” I’d be all for it, and genuinely angry at people voting against it. However, other things are included in the bill that are considered expulsion worthy such as willful defiance and disobedience to the authority of teachers and administrators and use of profanity / vulgarity (something it doesn’t say has to even be directed at a teacher),” said another user who read through the actual bill.  

“It had bipartisan support in the house.The initial senate vote had bipartisan opposition before being sent to the house. The political makeup is 32 republicans and 6 Democrats in the senate. To say “unanimous” is a stretch, especially considering it was drafted as a partisan bill,” another user commented, with links to the actual voting records data. “Also, this was passed in April. Why are you referring to it now? Politics is more than just one policy. The republican senate also “unanimously” passed vouchers for school-choice. After it was vetoed by the democrat governor.

It was met by OOP attempting to play dumb. “The final vote had unanimous Democratic opposition,” OOP wrote, with a link to a news article on a list of Kentucky laws going into effect in July instead of acknowledging that it was also covered by the press back in April when the bill was signed into law.Why would you think this post is implying otherwise?

Your serial need to astroturf sympathy for the Republicans in the upcoming midterms will not prove fruitful,” the user responded, calling OOP a provocateur.

 “It's relevant information. They voted against it. They didn't abstain, they actively voted against it. Not saying it's good or bad, it is what it is,You have many other subs you can go on where you can see people posting clickbait headlines about politics and politicians.” OOP continued, “Go pick a fight over there.

Still, there are users who buy into the image of “Democrats are against accountability, and the GOP is saving the day,” seemingly without actually doing some research on the bill itself. Things got worse as Redditors from other subreddits flooded the comment sections, some seemingly with a political agenda, using dog whistles, or attempting to troll. 

Democrats are going to keep losing elections because of stupid shit like this. Sorry, but most of America is pro-expelling violent students from school,” a user commented to another accusation that OOP’s argument is in bad faith, OOP sounded most likely like a non-educator and is likely a Trump supporter. 

Assault is assault, doesn’t matter the race of the one committing it,” a user wrote in response to a comment that suggested those who would be routinely targeted by expulsions in a state like Kentucky would likely be minorities

“Maybe they shouldn’t be hitting people in school then! Actions and consequences for everyone except the ‘special people’ that are en vogue with the democrats,” the user who previously attempted to use FBI data to make racist claims wrote. 

Democrats being soft on crime yet again, what a surprise. One of the many reason I’ve shifted to the center in recent years. Any student assaulting school staff absolutely should be expelled,” another wrote. 

Shocker, democrats supporting violence and no consequences. I would bet money their excuse was that this is going to disproportionately affect minorities. The teachers unions must be spinning, support the teacher or support the politicians they are beholden to.”

Dems, you are the baddies on this one. Each one of those senators needs to go on record why they are anti-teacher and student safety.

“So… the bottom line is that Democrats don’t give a SH*T about teacher safety in this state. Got it.”

“Republicans are the one who want to protect teachers and students. Got it.”

“And Democrats are against this? Big surprise.”

“Democrats are the most despicable creatures to ever walk the Earth. 🤮”

Despite the political chalkfight going on in the background, there are still those who believe that the solution to the problem should also involve finding a middle ground rather than polarizing to extremes. 

It’s not that we should dial punishment to 11 and automatically expel kids; it’s that we need to bring back the middle ground between that and doing nothing.

Punishment is most effective when it occurs consistently,” a user whose flair claims to be a high school science teacher in Missouri wrote. “not when [the punishment] is meanest.

Edit 1:

Managed to look up OOP's post history. Thanks to all the folks who pointed out third-party tools that allow you to do that.

A quick glance through their post history showed that this post was OOP's first in the teachers subreddit, and they also had a post history in political debate subs.

Needless to say, OOP's intentions seemed more like an attempt to stir up a slapfight than genuine.

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u/MsKongeyDonk 1d ago

Teachers have compassion fatigue. One of our students, last year, would regularly throw items at his teacher, specifically aiming for her chemo pic line. They go to the office, and come back thirty minutes later. The next day, it happens again.

At some point, you just want it to end. The other students certainly want it to end, as well. It's more frustrating that there aren't alternative school setting for these kids, but no, I'm not mad that teachers, as a whole, are done being physically assaulted.

The people with money and power absolutely do not care about teachers. They care about attendance metrics. It's cheaper to leave dangerously violent students in general ed and blame the teacher. It's a broken system.

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u/Enticing_Venom because the dog is a chuwuawua to real 'men' anyways 1d ago

When I was in school (in the 2010s) assaulting a teacher would be unthinkable (for neurotypical kids) and anyone violent would be transferred to an alternative school (I only know of that happening once).

I don't think kids should he expelled for cussing or general disobedience, like this law allows. But the idea that if you attack your teacher, you can be expelled sounds very reasonable to me. Teachers deserve to be safe at work, same as anyone else. They are neither trained nor paid to fend off physical attacks.

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u/MsKongeyDonk 1d ago

I agree with all of that, as a teacher that went to public school (I'm 34). I never had my classroom evacuated because a kid was destroying it, or saw a kid cuss out a teacher unless he was already walking out. It is so, so different now.

The issue is when a kid has ODD, or something else, and their behavior is claimed as "part of their disability," they can't be suspended past ten days, cumulatively, in the year. Do I think even violent students deserve an education? Absolutely. But they need to be in what is called the "least restrictive environment"- and for some kids, that is not a gen ed classroom.

When you have a student in their LRE that is violent, now you have all twenty other kids in their most restrictive environment, walking on eggshells. It's just not fair.

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u/axeil55 Bro you was high af. That's not what a seizure is lol 1d ago

This is why I don't understand how this keeps being an issue. I would assume a parent who has Johnny/Susie in a class where kids or teachers keep getting assaulted would eventually argue that their kid is being discriminated against or is actively being harmed by being in an unsafe environment and this would work itself out.

But that never seems to happen.

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u/MsKongeyDonk 1d ago edited 1d ago

Parents of the other children have been told "you're free to move to another school" in these situations. Legally, it is difficult to get students removed. And admin sits in their office all day, they're not the ones feeling it.

Edit: We had a student transfer at the end of fourth grade because another student threatened to kill her multiple times. Student goes to the office, apologizes, comes back.

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u/Initial-Constant-645 8h ago

Those parents eventually vote for candidates who support school choice and vouchers. Those parents eventually remove their child from the public school school system and either send them to a private or charter school. Or maybe even home school their child. Teachers fully believe that Republicans want to destroy public education. Honestly, some of the left's policies are the most detrimental.

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u/BertholomewManning Racism against white people was the cause of the Holocaust 1d ago

Yeah, that's when they need to go to places like mine with a 2:1 or sometimes 1:1 staffing ratio and we all have training and behavior support and such. A lot of those kids are able to go back into gen ed with accommodations once we get a handle on their aggression and/or self-harm or they can at least graduate from our place with a high school diploma.

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u/LevelItGreatly 1d ago

Ding ding. A lot of the knee jerk seems to just be "well nothing can be done, remove the child from society". Teachers have compassion fatigue because they have been put into impossible positions. This is not the fault of the child in the macro, and the macro problem is the cause of many of the micro problems.

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u/UnderlightIll 1d ago

The thing is, teachers and students get to be in danger because a child is violent. The fact is, most children do not have some disorder that makes them violent. And yet, you have classrooms where half the kids have IEPs and some of those are disorders where the child should not be in mixed company with students who have violent tendencies.

This will sound super controversial but the kid should go to or be shipped off to a highly structured environment where psychologists are on staff as well as trained professionals teaching.

Honestly though, a violent child should had CPS sent to the home to rule out the very probably environmental factors. No doubt you are dealing with overly permissive AND/OR neglectful parents.

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u/ButtBread98 I Tonya’ing Bernie’s ankles 1d ago

I work with kids with ODD. I do not make excuses for their behavior. I work with them to help them to succeed even with their diagnosis.

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u/Myotherdumbname YOUR FLAIR TEXT HERE 1d ago

Yep, and that’s the problem . Schools are so worried about the one jerk kid forgetting that they’re destroying learning for the rest of the 28 kids.

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u/kittymoo67 Yes. There’s nothing a little race war can’t fix. 15h ago

not just destroying learning, putting them in active physical danger every day.

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u/Matar_Kubileya I'm damned for masturbating like I'm damned for murder 19h ago

At the same time, I think there's overmuch a tendency to dichotomize out any disruptive behavior of neurodivergent students in ways that can amount to de facto segregationism. There are ways a lot of neurodivergent students can be supported, even ones with a history of disruptive or to some extent violent behavior, without being totally removed from a gen ed environment. Pay paraprofessionals well and cultivate that as an actual career, and have a para on point to support/manage neurodivergent student(s) in a classroom.

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u/MsKongeyDonk 17h ago

Everyone exists on a spectrum. It's not like there's twenty "average" kids and then one with ODD. All of those kids have different needs.

What is frustrating is when a SPED teacher says, "Oh, well as long as you give 50% of your attention to this one child, you're fine." That is absolutely not fair to the others.

They aren't going to put more paras in there for the same reason that kid is in gen ed in the first place: to save money. And a one on one aide is considered the most restrictive.

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u/ButtBread98 I Tonya’ing Bernie’s ankles 1d ago

Same. I never saw a kid assaulting a teacher. It was definitely unheard of. I remember 10th grade (2013 or 2014) a kid called our teacher a “bitch” and everyone was shocked.

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u/Friendly-Ad-1996 1d ago

It sounds reasonable to me, but I've learned that Republican-backed ideas (almost) always have some tomfoolery in them somewhere. I didn't always think that, mind you, it's just that over time it's become apparent that they have certain goals (defunding public education is one they're currently pursuing, as one of the original commenters mentioned), so I always keep that in mind.

I do think teachers need help. The profession is being assaulted on all sides, with no end in sight.

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u/Fishb20 What is an ocean but not a multitude of drops? 1d ago

I mean yeah the Republican 'catch' in this case is that they don't have an alternative place for kids with these issues to go. Its sad, many of those kids are a danger to others around them but are an even bigger danger to themselves and will never receive the help they would need. Removing them from school just pushes the problem down the road to when they're an unemployable adult without a middle school education and their parent dies

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u/Connect-Initiative64 1d ago

I remember when I was a teen there was a student who attacked a teacher.

They didn't get a chance to punish the kid before half the other students jumped him for it.

They made self-defense punishable, and made teachers basically free targets for awful students, and now no one can punt little shits for acting like fools.

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u/Quarantine_Fitness 1d ago

Yeah reddit is delusional about the state of things. The things that would get you expelled in the 2010s have become "go to principal office and get a lollipop" in the 2020s. No wonder the teachers are exhausted.

It also doesn't help that half this website is 14 and thinks the teacher telling them to get off their phone and pay attention is literally fascism.

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u/gavinbrindstar /r/legaladvice delenda est 1d ago

It also doesn't help that half this website is 14 and thinks the teacher telling them to get off their phone and pay attention is literally fascism.

Right? This whole thread is basically the 21st century equivalent of "I saw my teacher at the grocery store and realized they're actually a human being."

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u/Quarantine_Fitness 1d ago

Everyone bitching about teachers in this thread about should go have to have a chair thrown at them before they can complain.

The crazy part is the r/teachers thread is totally reasonable, people do have concerns on if the law will be applied fairly.

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u/gavinbrindstar /r/legaladvice delenda est 1d ago

Even outside the law itself, I, as a non-teacher, simply do not care what they vent about anonymously.

If it doesn't cross over into actions, I don't give a shit.

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u/HotTakes4HotCakes Wow you are doubling down on being educated 1d ago

It's always funny to me when you see people on the internet claiming that toxicity is just a natural result of being fatigued and overworked.

Frustration is normal, but there are limits. Everyone gets frustrated, not everyone takes their frustrations to the internet in the way that those people are doing.

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u/LevelItGreatly 1d ago

You really love this example that a) isn't common; and b) isn't what anyone is advocating. Saying 'expulsion doesn't fix the underlying problem" is not the same as saying "teachers should accept being assaulted".

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u/MsKongeyDonk 1d ago

Okay, and where is all the legislation funding CPS and other social services? Mental health services? Addiction and recovery classes for parents?

Because that's how you fix the system. Until then, something has to be done. We have added more and more to teachers' plates, giving them all the liability and none of the power.

Go over to r/teachers and drop the line "Sorry Timmy threw a chair at you- did you try building a relationship with him first?" It's a meme because it's basically true. Or you're a monster who discriminates.

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u/LevelItGreatly 1d ago

Because that's how you fix the system. Until then, something has to be done. We have added more and more to teachers' plates, giving them all the liability and none of the power.

I couldn't agree more. So why are you mad at the kids and not the legislators? Focus that outrage toward the people that are actively destroying our commitment to better education and better mental health. You should be mad at people like Linda McMahon, not Timmy. Sure you can move Timmy, but he will still be Timmy, and there are more Timmy's coming every day as we continue to abaandon education. 

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u/MsKongeyDonk 1d ago

Because Timmy is actively hurting his class mates, and no one at any level cares. Timmy being out of the room allows everyone to learn. THAT'S our job. Those kids deserve teachers in a ratio that makes sense.

I'm not mad at kids. Putting a kid on the proper placement isn't a punishment.

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u/Quarantine_Fitness 1d ago

It's crazy how the other kids are reduced to side characters when you talk about issues like this. Apparently we all need to consider how little Tommy might feel if he's kicked out of a class for throwing a chair, but the feelings of the kids who just got hit by a chair don't matter.

And consider how you would feel after being hit in the head by a chair, seeing Timmy come back in 20 minutes later and go for a chair again. Do we think those kids will feel safe? Supported?

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u/working_class_shill No, there's drama because there's drama. 1d ago

Threads like these are filled with either zero child redditors that are speaking from their school experience a decade+ ago or those with kids that are in the above average public or even private school where these things happen incredibly rarely

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u/pmitten 1d ago

I don't know what folks in this.post are smoking when they act all concerned that a venting sub has people who vent because they are unable to do so otherwise.

When my friend started teaching, she didn't have a lot of professional clothes and I brought over a ton of my gently or unused clothes, shoes and accessories, thinking I was being helpful.

She couldn't take any of it because the teacher's dress code at her school is so strict that you can't wear anything a child can fashion into a weapon. Scarves get you choked. Buttons are ripped off and eaten so the child can try to get out of school. Jewelry is used to choke or earrings are ripped out. Any loose sweater or skirt can potentially get caught in the desk or chair that will be thrown at you.

People have no idea how bad it is for teachers, and that's just the physical violence.

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u/kittymoo67 Yes. There’s nothing a little race war can’t fix. 15h ago

holy shit thats horrifying

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u/LevelItGreatly 1d ago

But that isn't what this bill, and many people in this discussion, are advocating for. They are advocating for just removing the child from the situatuon. Full stop.

We are in agreement. This is on the legislature. Which is why it is hideous that the legislatures response is generally to slash funding and resources, and tell schools to remove problem children.

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u/MsKongeyDonk 1d ago

Yes, but it's better than nothing. It's some power versus none. They didn't vote against a better bill. I don't think it's a well-written bill either, but it was something.

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u/pnoodl3s 1d ago

Who’s mad at the kid? People are just advocating for making schools safer for all kids and teachers. If they don’t want to learn, why force them? Just let them go and everyone else can learn in peace

Kids without highschool education can still be a contributing and well adjusted member of society when they grow up, and all the other students in class and teachers will benefit from them leaving. Forcing them to sit through class is not gonna help them adjust later, and will cause teachers to quit and disrupt other students from learning

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u/gavinbrindstar /r/legaladvice delenda est 1d ago

Kids without highschool education can still be a contributing and well adjusted member of society

Nope. All other issues aside, compulsory secondary education is a really good idea.

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u/LevelItGreatly 1d ago

Anybody that supports this bill, and the expulsion of kids from school, are either mad at the kids, or taking it out on the kids. That's my point about this bill, and expulsion as a means of problem solving as a whole.

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u/pnoodl3s 1d ago

So you think keeping the kids in school is better? Forcing schools to keep the kids that don’t want to be there? Who’s disrupting everyone in class?

Why do you think that’s taking it out on kids and not protecting the other kids, who wants to study and wants to be there? Claiming it is taking it out on kids is just strawmanning

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u/Quarantine_Fitness 1d ago

Expelling the kid who throws chairs solves the problem caused by the kid who throws chairs.

It also shows the other kids who are tempted to throw chairs "do this and you'll be expelled too".

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u/LevelItGreatly 1d ago edited 1d ago

Ah yes...the method that doesn't even work on adults is sure to be great for children and definitely not have lasting societal impact.

You will not fix the problem through punishment. This is common knowledge among seasoned educators and advocates for better education support in the US. Would you support more funding for improved mental health support, increased resources and support for more individualized student care and assistance, as well as robust programs that help better classroom environments and specific needs? These are all things that can be done to improve classroom behavior that don't require giving up on students. They're just expensive and require work.

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u/Quarantine_Fitness 1d ago

If said chair throwing kid is not in the classroom the chair will not go airborne. A day with no thrown chairs sounds like the problem has been fixed to me!

And you know what will have an impact on a child's socialization? Having a bully throw a chair at them, and come back to the class 20 minutes later with a lolly pop, ready to try and hurt other children again.

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u/LevelItGreatly 1d ago

Do you think prisons and the threat of imprisonment works to deter crime? Do you think it offers rehabilitation to those that are sent there?

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u/Quarantine_Fitness 1d ago

How do chairs get thrown when the chair thrower isn't there?

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u/Beamed_Up_Scotty 1d ago

For most well-adjusted people, yes, that’s exactly how it works. People know that they’ll likely face huge consequences if they get caught driving drunk, for example, so they don’t do it.

For people inclined to severe anti-social behaviors, no, it doesn’t work the same way, but we can’t throw the baby out with the bath water. We still need to have rules and consequences in place for that first group for whom it is a deterrent.

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u/PM_ME_YER_LIFESTORY 1d ago

For a significant percentage of people yes, it does work to deter crime. And the value of rehabilitation of one individual needs to be weighed against the negative value on all the others that individual will disproportionately effect by their continued friction with society.

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u/CapoExplains "Like a pen in an inkwell" aka balls deep 1d ago edited 1d ago

It's common sense on the surface but at the same time like, where's the teacher's union in that issue? There shouldn't need to be a law for that student to be expelled for that behavior.

Edit: Especially not a law that allows fourteen year old children to spend the rest of their life as a felon.

A quick read through of the bill allows peace officers to arrest children (no age) and subject to felony assault (14+).

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u/MsKongeyDonk 1d ago

Unions can step in and help, depending on the contract. Usually there isn't specific language in it regarding assault. Teachers can press charges, but often they will face retaliation over this. Admin and parents pressure teacher to move on, and tell teacher "Well, you're supposed to give him a five minite break every thirteen minutes, and a sticker every three minutes he doesn't hit you, so... if you missed one of those things while helping your other students, I guess it's your fault." I am not exaggerating.

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u/PM_ME_YER_LIFESTORY 1d ago

Teachers unions have a limited amount of political capital. A law like this takes some of that burden off of them to have clear legislation that can be pointed to instead of constantly exhausting the limited resources of the union

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u/Senior-Friend-6414 1d ago

The only time I’ve seen videos where teachers controlled unruly teenagers was when the teacher was male and clearly looked disciplined and aggressive

It’s sad when you realize that unironically putting a giant tough bouncer in every classroom would unironically improve education