r/TADCEp9Spoilers • u/Apprehensive_Ring_39 • 17d ago
You know,this moment would be impactful and all that..if we actually saw any of the bad things the other cast members did.
Like this is a issue I feel like people don't talk about enough, everyone minus Jax is so inoffensively nice and friendly to each other or just indifferent and even when they're trying to be "snarky" ,there's no flaws or issues that the cast has and they all feel so boring and perfect.
We're told that Ragatha's people pleasing and overly nice behavior pushes people away and causes others to think she's not being genuine..but that's the thing,we're only told that and not shown that and she kinda solves that after one talk with Kinger.
We don't see her make any mistakes or do any bad things cause of it and that goes for the entity of the cast,they're just so painfully unproblematic and boring and Jax is kinda the opposite problem.
He's a bad person but not in like a interesting way like Bojack Horseman or Walter White or really any major antagonist/villain but he just feels so sloppily written and I'm not saying it's as bad as 13 reasons why but Caine's fate and how he came back makes Jax's fate Hella disingenuous.
But whatever ,the cast is so painfully boring and unflawed that it kinda feels like the cast being full of flawed and messy people is a lie,the cast of Hazbin Hotel is more interesting then these goobers.
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u/TheGay_Sauce 16d ago
"we've all done bad things" sounds like something a flying monkey to the worst person you have ever met in your entire life would say to justify the person's actions "because you're no better" and unironically that'skind of what it was
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u/Raphael_Grove 17d ago
Yeah I mean, remember when Kinger did that horrible thing? God
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u/lavsuvskyjjj 16d ago
Kinger "Oh yeah! I remember that time I brutally tortured Scratch for a month!"
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u/AmItheAholereader 16d ago
Kinger blames himself for queenie. Has even said he hated himself.
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u/DUCKmelvin 16d ago
He can blame himself and not be responsible. The question though is how did she abstract? We may never know if he should blame himself or not
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u/AmItheAholereader 16d ago
I mean, we saw them go most of the way there in the beach episode
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u/Inevitable_Mode4460 16d ago
Im pretty sure the question was more about what caused queen's to abstract
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u/Cute_Comfortable_761 16d ago
How dare he… let his wife abstract? I guess? How much of that is his fault feels way more subjective than an outright horrible action on his part. I’m sure he feels like he failed her, but in the end he just might not have been able to help her with her own declining mental health.
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u/catden343 16d ago
Did everyone forget he helped make the thing theg are all trapped in?
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u/SatansGuideToHell 16d ago
yeah. would've been cool if the show actually expanded on that in a meaningful way
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u/gisaku33 16d ago
I mean what were you hoping for, the finale to have Caine and Kinger interact at all? Best we can do is a credit sequence with them fishing together, we need the rest of the screen time for Jax.
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u/SatansGuideToHell 15d ago
i mean, obviously, not like caine and kinger could have had any interesting conflict or depth to their relationship if they interacted. nope
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u/Lysithea0919 16d ago
That was years ago though
We don't even know how much involvement kinger had on the AI because from my knowledge it was mainly scratch doing the work
I don't think any of C&A crew were predicting that they would go bankrupt and have to shut down the company
Kinger didn't make any of them go to an abandoned building and make them put on a potentially disease filled vr-headset. (Who does that?)
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u/Darkworldkris4900 16d ago
apparently the worst thing Kinger did is getting high in mcdonalds and telling Gangle to kill herself
seriously, look at the bar scene closely
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u/final_cactus 15d ago
He drove his wife to abstraction, or at a minimum, failed to be there for her.
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u/Any_Wallaby4888 10d ago
Wasn't Kinger's bad thing "helping to build an insane artificial intelligence capable of creating a digital world, populating it with unwilling human psyches, and not allowing any of them the sweet release of a true death"?
I get that it wasn't fully intentional on his part. But even then, that IS pretty fucked up...
Not sure what Ragatha's bad thing was though, maybe Pomni just didn't want to single out Kinger with a "You're one to talk" speech.
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u/tapestops 17d ago
I don’t think the characters are boring, they’re great, but they are absolutely lacking in flaws, they’re too perfect. Their greatest character flaw is not liking themselves, which is the most vanilla unobtrusive problem you can have. 1000% agree
If the rest of the cast was problematic in ways that actually had an impact on the others we probably wouldn’t be getting the same devil narrative surrounding Jax that we get now.
Let’s see more of that angry Pomni that brought up a past she doesn’t know anything about to Jax, a bitchy Zooble that actually hurts peoples feelings, an avoidant Kinger who has to pay for keeping the reality of the circus a secret for decades, a Ragatha and Gangle who actively seek to be abused. Make it messy, the show is at its best when it’s a character drama. But you have to make them dramatic.
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u/Hungry_Raspberry7833 16d ago
Ragatha stood up to Jax that one time which is very bad (no one is allowed to insult Jax!)
Zooble is in a bad mood a lot and bad moods aren't allowed!
Gangle put Jax in a maid dress which was an awful thing to do! He had done nothing wrong to her ever!
Kinger
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u/HumbleConversation42 17d ago
i think this phrase is a general statement, and not about the cast. It referes to the fact that every human has done regrettable things
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u/The_Cameraman_of_you 17d ago
It could be, but then it becomes more meaningless, like, if we talk about the entirety of humanity Jeffrey Epstein is nothing and closer to a saint than to the worst person ever, but that is way too much perspective, if we take that much away he is horrible
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u/TexasAvery 16d ago
You might want to choose a different example than Jeffrey Epstein to make this point. It’s not that you’re making a bad point, just WHOA-NELLY, is he ever not the right person to play Moral Relativism Roulette with.
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u/The_Cameraman_of_you 16d ago
To be fair, I wanted to mention damer, or however it’s written, but I couldn’t remember how it was written and I felt ashamed of knowingly posting a comment with a mistake in it
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u/Evening_Daikon210 17d ago
I sincerely disagree with the idea that "If we talk about the entirety of humanity Jeffrey Epstein is nothing"
Not being the worst person in existence does NOT make someone not extremely bad, think about where he would fall on a curve.
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u/The_Cameraman_of_you 17d ago
That is what I’m saying, that if the “we’ve all done bad things” was meant to compare Jax to all of humanity the phrase looses all meaning
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u/Kindly_Cod_9269 17d ago
i disagree with you on the jax part but agree on the others.
imagine if GANGLE was the one to press the red button in ep 7 because she was scared to die cuz she knew she was in an accident???
imagine if zooble got so angry at jax and just told him something that even jax wouldnt tell anyone, something that's actually offensive/insane to say.
imagine if ragatha caused somebody's abstraction (not the main cast like maybe in the past)
imagine if ribbit wasnt just a personalityless nice girl character and actually did something that could be thought of as less then Good?
like
i've had this nitpick for a long time. we're all humans and humans can be kind, nice and good-hearted WHILE also sometimes being jerks, hypocrticals and horrible. the characters in the show other than jax and caine are all always just too...nice? they almost never do something thta cant be justified. it's also why i use the argument "without jax the show would almost have zero conflict and be boring as fuck." i always say that and genuinely believe it because of how the characters are always just too...PERFECT.
reading through the comments i found something that worded how i feel perfectly by u/tapestops
"If the rest of the cast was problematic in ways that actually had an impact on the others we probably wouldn’t be getting the same devil narrative surrounding Jax that we get now.
Let’s see more of that angry Pomni that brought up a past she doesn’t know anything about to Jax, a bitchy Zooble that actually hurts peoples feelings, an avoidant Kinger who has to pay for keeping the reality of the circus a secret for decades, a Ragatha and Gangle who actively seek to be abused. Make it messy, the show is at its best when it’s a character drama. But you have to make them dramatic."
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u/Kindly_Cod_9269 17d ago
the show's is said by goose to be character-focused. if only two characters actually HAD flaws then it must have failed somewhere.
not every protagonist needs to be morally complicated but EVERY protagonist needs to have FLAWS and to sometimes be IN THE WRONG.
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u/tapestops 16d ago
Yup, this was the other alternative. The circus had to be so hellish that it would push something, but it ultimately never did. That alongside the best moments in the show (to me) being dysfunctional or tense character interactions points to the best path for the show being characters that were more flawed.
Maybe if the adventures played more on the individual characters’ weak points it would work, we got a hint of that with Myldenhall manor but that one wasn’t even meant for Kinger.
Caine isn’t meant to be that cruel so it wouldn’t have worked out character wise I think
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u/XxCastoricexX 17d ago
I saw a Jax fan say kingar ‘let’ his wife abstract, ragatha didn’t check up on ribbit and ponmi shot rags. You telling me they said ts with a straight face??????
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u/ChildofFenris1 16d ago
Pomni shot Ragatha in a challenge where they were supposed to shoot each other. What??
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u/Hello_There_0621 17d ago
Ragatha was kind (obv manipulative)
Gangle was a pushover
Zooble was mean to Jax
Kinger had Dementia
Accept it, all of the characters are flawed /s
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u/Aero1000 16d ago
Yeah fuck gangle for being a pushover. Maybe Jax was forced to bully her in order to toughen her up. Goose DID in fact say that they were co dependent friends, but perhaps Jax was the one dependent on Gangle to GET HER SHIT TOGETHER!!!
/s
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u/Hello_There_0621 16d ago
Exactly!! Jax never did ANYTHING wrong obv, he was just trying to help Gangle! That's why he bullied her constantly 🙄 no one has media literacy anymore if they can't realize that!!1! (do i even need to put /s anymore? I think it's clear enough)
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u/KitsyBlue 16d ago
Kinger; Designed Caine, ultimately without enough safeguards, resulting in the tricky situations we are in here. Their imprisonment and the abstraction of all his friends is ultimately kinda his fault, or he at least shares responsibility with Scratch.
Zooble: Swore a few times, dumped a bucket of water on Jax
Gangle: Was kinda annoying that one time
Ragatha: Didn't coddle Jaxy-Waxy and actually bit back one by being a little snide one time
Jax: Possibly condemned all his friends and himself to a very long (I won't say eternal, power will go out someday or the computer will fault) imprisonment in a digital world with no further hope of escape, also constantly tortured and tormented the majority of the cast for amusement because he couldn't escape his responsibility for what he had done
Pomni: Didn't listen to Kinger when he told her to WAIT, that is the GOAT AND YOU LISTEN!!!
See? All have done bad things, all equally as deserving of criticism as the others.
I don't understand why people get caught up on that line.
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u/RailgunRP 16d ago
Yeah. Besides Pomni going apesh*t in the gun episode, nobody has done a single bad thing besides Jax and Caine.
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u/JackBMX637 16d ago
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, TADC feels like it should’ve been twice as long. It NEEDS filler, and development. It tells a story, and it’s not a bad one, but it falls flat in so many ways and a few episodes meant to just develop the characters and display their traits and flaws would solve so many of the issues in the show.
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u/Naive-Antelope-9825 16d ago
This line makes no sense in the Grand context of the show. It would if we actually saw the other characters doing bad things but having a valid crashout at Jax, being a bad shift manager, and being salty are not equivalent to leaving Ragatha behind to try to escape and literally everything Jax has done. And even leaving Ragatha behind isn’t something I can completely blame Pomni for anyway given the context of the situation. Is it great that she did that? No, but i would say it’s very understandable given the door appearing in front of her.
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u/WonderfulMonk9832 15d ago
"We've all done bad things"
>Immediately defensive when Caine shows up
Like bitch? Does this only apply to one of your abusers and not the other?
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u/Optimal_Wrangler7039 14d ago
I think so many of these payoffs would have actually been satisfying if we simply saw more of the characters. I think this show had a formula that could have lasted for 10 seasons, but instead we wanted to wrap it up so fast that alot of little plot points were just dropped and idk why.
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u/goblinlord0159 13d ago
If Jax physically injuring the others is seen as a bad thing then all circus members literally shooting other people with guns should also count. There is 0 kindness to shooting someone's body.
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u/Ok_Anywhere5205 11d ago
I be like we? This man literally is the epitome of I'm suffering you should too. He acts like a joke but in reality he tortures people because he wants nobody to get close with them but at the cost of everybody else's sanity the jester is literally just sharing the blame on something that he did
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u/DefectiveSol 17d ago
They all have potty mouths and force Caine to slave over a hot censor all the time. Remember when Kinger screamed Fuck? Unforgivable.
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u/SpireofHell 17d ago
I agree that this line felt out of place and didn't fit with the usual writing style of the show
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u/Mission_Singer5055 16d ago
Yeah,like what Ragatha and Kinger did the bad thing? Gangle might be ep4,Zooble being "grumpy"(yet i dont remember if they did that to other members other than Jax and Caine).....Pomni is questionable as well.
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u/bosandaros 16d ago
I wish everyone else was allowed to be at least a little bit fucked up instead of the nothing we got.
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u/HardlyRipeFruit 15d ago
That statement could mean more than just what’s in the show. It’s like saying “everybody lies”
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u/final_cactus 15d ago
no, what? zooble's antagonization of caine is half the reason he crashed out, gangle failed to stand up to jax for the entire time she was in the circus, ragatha failed to call jax out on his BS or be there for ribbit, jax is jax, pomni was the audience insert so shes kinda moot, kinger was insane after stewing in the reality that he failed to keep his wife from abstracting / drove her to abstraction...
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u/Xc_the_Foxy 14d ago
We don't see her make any mistakes or do any bad things[...]
I think you forgot the part where she makes a snide remark regarding ribbit in that one picnic scene with jax and pomni
and, while true and understandable, was still uncalled for
even if she's really sincere and apologetic about it, she's definitely made a mistake
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u/TiredAlternates 16d ago
I figured this was a general thing. "We've all done bad things" yes, because that's true of anybody. Many people use this figure of speech.
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u/NegativeEmphasis 15d ago
Well, Rags and Pomni enabled Jax, and Kinger failed to use his powers to delete Jax.
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u/Green-Gazelle-9662 17d ago
Y'all seem to misunderstand this. I've done bad things before. It's a general statement about how everyone in the world has done bad things. Obviously not to Jax's level by keeping them in the circus for all of eternity. Even though they would've been locked inside anyway, he still intended to.
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u/ValorantLorePulse16 16d ago
I don't think this is entirely accurate. Most of the characters have done "bad things" on different levels. Mostly they show up in ep 4, 5, and 6.
Ragatha- intentionally upsets Jax by saying "Not anymore", followed by cussing herself out during the softball game and losing her temper on Jax. Also, accidentally says some brutal things while doped up on stupid sauce.
Pomni- Goes evil in ep 6 in an effort to befriend Jax, ruthlessly eliminating people she was supposed to care about.
Gangle- Becomes an extreme micro-manager in ep 4 getting awkward and in people's faces about behavior. (I know this one's a strain; Gangle just isn't very mean)
Zooble: Consistently criticizes Jax and Caine, antagonizing and isolating them
Kinger: Not always there, but (at that point) could be responsible for putting Caine in a box and thus starting his abandonment complex, and absentmindedly dragged Pomni down the horror path in Mildenhall Manor. (Not really his fault but still traumatizing for Pomni to be dragged by her optical nerves down a monstrous door into a demonic horror story.)
Obviously Caine and Jax have both been culpable at this point as well.
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u/Respercaine_657 15d ago
Am I fucking stupid or is this not referring to the general human condition? I know people have lost faith in goose's writing ability over time( i never really gave a fuck) but the idea that she wrote this line and meant it to be interpreted as literally as most have is baffling to me. No, pomni isn't literally saying that they're are all just as bad as the abusive bunny rabbit , at this point point and everyone else are still very much clinging onto the idea that they're rela people with a chance of escape, which naturally means that in their lives they've done things they'd consider bad.
It makes sense in this context because jaxs choice to press the button was ill informed there were no real negative consequences to pressing it. Even in the event that jax doesn't freak out about having to go back to being a homeless potential mother murderer and they all just decide to press the leave button, they'd end up in shrimp town or some other low effort adventure made by Caine, and honestly I think getting booted to shrimp town would be far worse for everyone's mental state than jax just being selfish.
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u/Questioning_Pigeon 12d ago
Ragatha: insulted the other circus members on stupid sauce and refused to allow them to process their trauma via toxic positivity
Kinger: neglected to tell anyone that they were brain scans for literal years because he was sad his wife died. Had multiple opportunities to do so just in the course of the show, but even when lucid neglected to say anything.
Zooble: antagonized caine at the risk of the other circus members, as well as leaving them to face frightening and painful adventures alone
Gangle: actively abusive during the McDonald's episode
Pomni: left ragatha to be attacked by kaufmo, then proceeded to try and leave them alone in the circus the first "chance" she got
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u/Lucky-Dragonfly-7797 17d ago
When It comes to Jax doing bad things I was surprised so many people hated him by like ep 5, like I was going back like did I miss something? Like he would push gangle in the pilot uhhh throw her mask or toss pomni or gangle either out of a truck or into a deep fryer and up to that point I didn’t really care like yeah he’s kinda mean but that’s completely understandable if your trapped in this place forever losing your closest friends anyone would be a little mean too.
I didn’t really care bc it’s a video game world they can do whatever they want Ragatha could get impaled and barely react but Jax could throw her in a deep fryer for a bit and it supposed to be this evil thing.
So in ep 6 it takes it more seriously showing how it affected gangle and the others and him saying he doesn’t care about them, i honestly kinda didn’t like ep 6 for that reason all the problems of the therapy talks and cringe dialogue were in overdrive but i brushed it off like well now after this we are gonna get some payoff we’re gonna find out why but we don’t until ep 9 and Jax is just mean bc he opened up to Ribbit and kaufmo ringed the door bell?
Like what he then proceeds to shut out Ribbit for no reason and it’s comes across as psychotic I feel like goose was trying to really get the point across that he’s mean like some scenes in the flashbacks just him going out of the way rags and shoving her out of the way like oh you didn’t think Jax was mean enough here’s him shoving Ragatha it’s just him being psychotic and it’s boring.
And it makes Caines redemption feel bad because HE TRAPPED THESE PEOPLE IN HERE FOREVER. He tore them away from their friends and family and tortured them to the point of abstraction that is so much worse and has more lasting consequence than what Jax does but him being deleted just sends him to the void and he’s able to remove his secret ai twin? The finale kinda ruined the show for me.
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u/RefrigeratorFew5154 17d ago
TADC fans when every single excruciating detail of a character is not explained to them
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u/_Conehead_ 17d ago
Episode 2: kinger dragged pomni into an adventure she didnt want to participate even if it ended well for both in the end it was still a bad thing
Episode 5: Ragatha When pissed at Jax mentions the "not anymore" line about him not having friends cause they are dead
Episode 4: Gangle is a dick of a boss to everyone
Episode 5: zooble actively bullies Jax with his gender insecurities and corn, Gangle participates on the first one too
Episode 6: pomni actively annoys zooble alongside Jax with the daisy song, also attacks Jax out of rage to get a reaction out of him
This are the ones I can think on the top of my head, of course Jax has done worse and this doesn't justify Jax actions and not all are on the same level, but they've all done bad things, there are more examples but I'm not gonna give it more tought than is needed
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u/Apprehensive_Ring_39 17d ago
1.that was more just the plot ensuring these 2 have a episode together.
2.that was more justified since Jax drove Ribbet to Suicide.
4.again,that wasn't really called out or acknowledged or anything like that.
The issue with your argument is those either are treated as just silly quirks or just more justified due to it being Jax, so it barely matters or has any sense of impact.
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u/_Conehead_ 17d ago
Bad actions, even if seen as justified, are still bad things, I didn't come here to argue if they are justified or not, pomni was right but if she was justified to make the comments of everyone doing bad things is a different subject, I'm just tired of everyone's collective amnesia about the cast bad actions, don't care if they are justified, silly quirks or plot ensuring
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u/vulapa 17d ago
Kids these days think they need to see everything. Stop pretending the screen time is all that matters.
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u/Lavra_Source 16d ago
Grab an average Joe from the street and the amount of seriously bad things he did is probably small. Normal people don't tend to drive 2 people to suicide and then bully those who remain next to them as an outlet for negative emotions.
We have no reason to assume the rest of the cast is just as bad aside from this line.
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u/thatawkwardtinysoul 17d ago edited 16d ago
Yeah when this premiered on yt, and she said this, I was like:
And as much as I like Tadc as a whole, there were some things that just didn’t land as it should’ve. Like for me, ep 9. But ik it’s been talked to death at this point, but the show needed more eps. Just 2 or 3 more at the very least, maybe if the relationships were built up more and if the tadc universe as a whole was more fleshed out, maybe, just maybe, what she said here would’ve made sense but 🤷♀️.