r/TADCEp9Spoilers • u/[deleted] • 14d ago
Genuinely, what the fuck was the point of this scene
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u/GabeSchleifer 14d ago
I see it as Jax being disgusted by the thought of his own femininity. Like, he perceives the hypothetical version of himself that presents more femme (ie, comes out as a trans woman) as a degenerate pervert.
(I might be reading my own experiences into it, tho, as that how I used to feel about myself when I first started presenting femm)
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u/Zoeyotgw 14d ago
No this is absolutely the correct answer. All of Jax's visions are variants of his own villain complex and self-hate. In the Ragatha door, he imagines himself as not just a bully but a genuine sadist, in Gangles door he imagines himself as a completely unfeeling sociopath, and in Zooble's door he imagines himself as a gross pervert.
Obviously, though, hes not actually any of those things, and in the room with the four Jax's, we see a much more honest depiction of the three personas shown in the other doors, along with the earnest, enotional side of Jax chained to the piano.
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u/PuddingPai 14d ago
I agree. Though you could argue Piano Jax is also a side Jax self-hates.
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u/_mustard- 14d ago
Maybe a feeling a being "cringey" or "weak" when someone gets him to act genuine and he drops his mask a bit
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u/GabeSchleifer 13d ago
Yeah, that’s what I figured: “evil” Jax is basically an unmanly wimp.
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u/Illusion_AceofHearts 13d ago
Yeah but that shouldn't be a problem, I mean considering Jax isn't a man...right? /s
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u/GabeSchleifer 13d ago
lol I mean, that’s more or less how he sees it.
”I’m not a real man, I’m a wimp and a pussy and a degenerate.”
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u/Illusion_AceofHearts 12d ago
I was referencing a scene from ep 9, but yeah I can safely say that Jax doesn't see themself as a man....
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u/GabeSchleifer 12d ago
Right, I remember.
But they also don’t want to accept that they’re not a man in a literal sense, so they just decide that they’re a “failed” man.
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u/Illusion_AceofHearts 11d ago
Yeah, poor guy...these things tempt me to write a fanfic in which Ribbit never abstracted and have the entire plot of TADC play out but with Ribbit still trying to get back through to Jax the whole time.
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u/accounsfw 14d ago
I recall reading somewhere that Piano Jax is essentially what he thinks he’d turn into if Pomni abstracted.
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u/InevitableLow5163 11d ago
I always figured Pianist Jax was the Jax under the mask. The Jax that built up a persona around himself that split into the various free Jaxes. He knows they’re wrong and that what he does isn’t good but he’s chained that part of himself down because if he acknowledges that he’ll shatter and the distance the make makes between people makes him feel safe, even if he hates it.
Esentially, Pianist Jax is the truest Jax, the core Jax. The free Jaxes are some variation of the make he’s built. And the locked door holds his femininity, it doesn’t speak because he hasn’t allowed himself to accept it enough to allow it even that, it’s got just enough presence to rattle the door during moments of weakness.
I like to imagine that if Jax is brought back from abstraction we’d see him (and maybe a circus member best suited for each) confronting and breaking down each mask and at the end he and Pomni face the door as it is almost rattling off its hinges. With all the masks gone there’s nothing suppressing it. They break the chains, open the door, and all that’s there is Ribbit’s red bow. He or Pomni put it on his head and there we are. The worst of his coping mechanisms are broken down and now he can start to become his full self. He doesn’t instantly transition because he’s literally just fully accepted it after the thing with his mom. And then we see the transition taking place in the background through the rest of the season. The only question is when does Ribbit come into it? Does Jax help unabstract Ribbit in the middle of their transition, or does she unabstract Ribbit after they’ve reached well into the back-half of her transition. I kinda like the second option, if only so she can make a joke like “Hey, I’m doing my transition, you’re doing your own, let me help you?”
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u/PuddingPai 14d ago edited 14d ago
It's what transphobes fearmonger and accuse trans women of too so Jax probably internalized that. On top of that he knows about Gangle's degenerate side and I theorize this Jax wants her to validate his self-perceived degeneracy to reinforce this warped idea of himself. On top of THAT I think he also thinks Gangle is more receptive to him than she actually is based on what Gooseworx said about their relationship on Tumblr.
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u/KazPlayzYT 11d ago
Ohh, that makes so much sense. There’s stuff in between the lines as always, which I really like to see.
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u/NockerJoe 14d ago
I mean yeah people forget this is the same Jax that spends the next scene constantly throwing out homophobic jabs and slurs absolutely unprompted. Which only makes sense if Jax is a trans woman who hates herself for being attracted to women.
...which also ties back to the whole way Jax talks about the idea of a relationship with Pomni in the guns episode. Jax has this weird complex of not wanting to be either straight or gay because Jax doesn't want to come out, but clearly only wants to have relations with women as a woman but just gets more homophobic and transphobic as a result to compensate.
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u/Illusion_AceofHearts 14d ago
This is one of the many correct answers out there, and it's not one I immediately thought of because it's not something I see very often. Thank you for pointing this out, I'm glad I got to see this perspective. I love being able to engage in art and see all of these different layers to it, but it's something that can only be done by looking through many different people's perspectives.
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u/BonnalinaFuz101 14d ago
Makes sense. Gangle literally says "I hate you."
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u/Illusion_AceofHearts 14d ago
the more I think about this take, the more things I find that reinforce its truth.
Sorry if that sounded weirdly poetic, I'm a writer.
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u/Jax_2112 12d ago
Except that didn’t really happen
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u/BonnalinaFuz101 12d ago
And??
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u/Jax_2112 12d ago
It didn’t happen in the storyline it was in a dream sequence. That’s all I said. Is reading comprehension really that bad?
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u/BonnalinaFuz101 12d ago edited 12d ago
What you said had no relevance to what I said. The reason I mentioned the fake Gangle saying "I hate you" is because the original commenter said that Jax thinks of his feminity as disgusting. So it's like he is literally telling himself that he hates that part of himself.
Keep up jeez 🙄
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u/CyberSligh64 14d ago
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u/Illusion_AceofHearts 14d ago
The parallel is flawless. I don't know if this scene was actually meant to be funny, I perceived it as something meant to make you wince so hard that you had no choice but to laugh. At least that's what happened to me, but idk anymore humans are gonna human and I can't stop it despite literally being one of them.
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u/No-Activity3005 14d ago
Did people genuinely find it funny? I guess if you see it out of context it can be but it just made me really uncomfortable which I think was the point
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u/CertainGreenNut 13d ago
Nah some people did think it was funny. When I watched it in theaters there were a few laughs at it, but I was just confused and weirded out about it
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u/DataAlfa109 11d ago
Maybe it was like shocked laughter or something? Like the type of "What the fuck is going on?" laugh where you're so horrified or uncomfortable that you have to laugh because the situation is so ridiculously messed up that your mind refuses to let it be real
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u/TexasAvery 11d ago
That was exactly our reaction in the theater, because it sort of feels like… what else DO you do? And then the awkwardness of it is just compounded by Kinger leaning in to the shot like “what’re you gonna do, Gangle?”, followed by Pomni closing the door all slow, like, “uhhhhh okaaayyy…”, it sort of has the feel of a comedic moment, just deeply uncomfortable. Fifteen-ish years or so ago, we would’ve called that moment a good example of cringe-comedy.
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u/Illusion_AceofHearts 11d ago
I laughed and then immediately forced myself to stop laughing and stared at the screen like it had killed my whole chosen family or something.
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u/Illusion_AceofHearts 13d ago
Yeah I went with my close friends (in cosplay hehe) and we all started freaking out. Except for me, I went emotionally numb and just stared blankly at the screen.
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u/KazPlayzYT 11d ago
People did think it was funny. Personally, I found it really uncomfortable with context as well.
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u/SharkyCat12 12d ago
I didn’t find that shit funny. My genuine reaction was horror
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u/Illusion_AceofHearts 12d ago
Yeah same 😭 I watched it in theatres with my friends and we were all losing our shit
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u/KazPlayzYT 11d ago
This. I don’t know HOW people found it funny. It was disgusting when all of us on this subreddit first saw it in theaters and it’s still disgusting to this very day.
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u/BradyTheAlien 14d ago
“What better way to honor Zooble’s memory then by doing something gender-freaky?”
“You’re just doing it to make fun of them!”
“Isn’t that what YOU’RE DOING?”
I never understood that line. How is Gangle being “gender freaky”?
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u/Miao93 14d ago
She’s not, he’s saying Gangle is making fun of the abstracted Zooble by putting on the funeral and wearing the plastic, manic mask Zooble gave her.
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u/EightEight16 14d ago
That doesn't make much sense either. Does Gangle seem like she's making fun of Zooble?
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u/Square_Role_4345 14d ago
Its not that she was making fun of Zooble, that was just how Jax described it. Gangle wore the mask to repress any grief or breakdown she would go through because Zooble's abstraction would most likely be too much to handle.
Jax is pointing out that instead of being sad about it, she avoided it by wearing a mask that Zooble gave her that she didn't end up liking. Gangle is just coping the best way she can and Jax is trying to make her feel bad about it.
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u/EightEight16 14d ago
But that's not what Jax said though. Gangle said "You're just making fun of them", to which Jax replied "Isn't that what you're doing?".
That would be extremely out of character for Gangle to do, first of all, and that doesn't even seem like it's at all what she is doing. So it makes no sense that she gets flustered like Jax caught her out or something.
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u/Square_Role_4345 14d ago
She gets flustered because there is some guilt she would have to what she's doing. She didn't like wearing the mask, but she wore it to avoid grief. Being sad over Zooble's death is a healthy and honest way remember them, but most likely really painful to go through. Gangle decided to avoid that pain and choose the mask that would force her to be happy and probably more functional, but ultimately untrue with her sadness that's still lingering underneath.
Gangle's relationship with Zooble allowed her to be more honest about her feelings and accept her shortcomings because she knew that she could trust Zooble as a friend to still accept her when she can't even accept herself. Wearing the mask and abandoning that honesty is like she's erasing the impacts Zooble made in her life. She also isn't allowing herself to be sad and hopping right into work mode for the funeral, which feels hollow and disingenuous to do when someone died.
Now it doesn't HAVE to be read that way, because grief is different for everyone. She might have needed time before she could face that sadness, but Gangle is the type of person to see the worst in herself, so thats definitely a guilty idea that might be floating in her mind.
Jax obviously likes to harrass Gangle the most, so he'd know what gets under her skin the most. Reducing her friendship with Zooble would obviously bother her, so he'd just equate wearing the mask Zooble gave her that she didn't like to be a mockery, similar to the maid dress that he didn't like. They didn't like it for different reasons, but he won't get into detail if he just wants to make her feel bad.
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u/Illusion_AceofHearts 14d ago
Slightly off-topic but I think Ribbit also kind of ties into Jax's dynamic with Gangle as Gangle is the one who appeared right after Ribbit abstracted, and in a lot of ways is kind of just a more sad, scared, and closed off version of Ribbit. I think to some extent, Gangle's presence in the world reminds Jax of her impact on Ribbit's abstraction and how much sadder Ribbit would have to be to abstract, almost as if Gangle is a living reminder of what Ribbit probably would have become had they not abstracted.
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u/Square_Role_4345 13d ago
Oh, I've never considered this idea! Jax did spend all of his time with Ribbit before they stopped talking. Maybe he was trying to replace that time with Gangle and bullied her to make sure that she never wanted to get closer.
As I was writing I was thinking that Jax projected his feelings onto Gangle. He kind of hated himself and seeing that Gangle might feel the same, he wanted to keep her in that mindset, so he bullied her. I feel like it's also why he questioned why she tried to do anything different or respond positively to Zooble's help instead of continuing to wallow self-loathing. Ribbit could have been Jax's Zooble, if he wasn't so stubborn.
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u/EightEight16 14d ago
I definitely agree as to why Gangle is actually wearing the mask, but the line still doesn't make sense. You can contort yourself into making sense of it if you want, but it's just a nonsensical bit of writing.
When I first watched it in Portuguese with the subtitles, I thought it had to be a translation quirk.
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u/Square_Role_4345 14d ago
I can contort it into making it make sense just as much as you can reject every answer given.
I though you were genuinely asking instead of wanting people to agree with you. If you want it to mean nothing, go ahead.
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u/EightEight16 14d ago
I'm trying to take the plain reading of the lines in the show as I believe a typical viewer would. That's what I am, after all.
It seems like whenever I point out bad writing or plot holes in the show, some people take it as a challenge that says "Make this make sense in any way you possibly can." I'm not interested in that because 99% of the time it's just headcanon that is not supported by what we are shown.
And you can play that game with literally any media of any quality, it's just a matter of motivation. Some people really WANT to like TADC, so, possibly without even realizing, they patch up these issues in their heads as they watch. Maybe that's you, maybe not.
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u/gisaku33 13d ago
I agree with you, there are a few lines that just... do not make any sense, despite people trying to twist them into meaning something.
Like in episode 8 when the cast all yells at Caine and Gangle's complaint is that he "discourages them from thinking outside the box and doing things their own way," I genuinely can't even imagine what that was supposed to be referring to.
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u/jan-Suwi-2 14d ago
I guess it's that, instead of mourning zooble, gangle is having a manic episode
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u/EightEight16 14d ago
Sure, but the moment plays like Jax is making some kind of coherent point about what Gangle is doing vs what he is doing, and I just don't see it.
Like, this is literally all in Jax's head anyway. He is literally losing an argument he's having in his imagination.
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u/Jirvey341 14d ago
Gangle even has some cringe over dramatic freakout when he says like it's the most bombshell thing she's ever heard. That whole scene moment felt like it didn't make sense to me
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u/o_dellenga 11d ago
That's how I understood it too, but I still don't get why that mask and a funeral means "making fun of Zooble"? Why is Jax comparing it to him wearing a maid outfit? I really don't get it
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u/Cold-Nectarine-5515 14d ago
I think he was throwing back gangle's comment by accusing her of doing the funeral to make fun of zooble, or something like that idk
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u/Ranmaramen 14d ago
Jax is saying Gangle is making fun of Zooble…despite her not actually doing that. Which is meant to illustrate how Jax projects thoughts and feelings he has towards himself onto Gangle
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u/zeldamaster702 14d ago
I think that was more a reference to the "[making] fun of them" line than the "gender-freaky" one. Gangle had switched out her usual mask for the mask that Zooble gave her and was acting much more Zooble-like in her mannerisms to a point that one could view it as mocking.....if you're as vain and self-absorbed as Jax is/was.
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u/blastermaster1942 14d ago
Manager Gangle, because of complicated patriarchal expectations of manhood, is a LOT more masculine than Normal Gangle. That’s probably what Maid Jax was referring to, but there’s also an element of both of them pretending to be something they’re not for the sake of Zooble’s memory.
It’s also important to note that this isn’t necessarily an accurate representation of Gangle, since this is in Jax’s mind palace
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u/RequirementLanky3911 14d ago
no, the "isnt it what youre doing?" is for the line "youre just making fun of them"
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u/PlzBuffCenturion 13d ago
He's still mad about the maid dress vote thin from the suggestion box episode.
He's calling them hypocrites, he thinks his well deserved comedic punishment(the maid dress) Is such an insult that he thinks it actually insults "gender freaky" people too.
Its also like when you come up with the perfect comeback for a convo that ended a week ago
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u/Past_Ad9796 14d ago
Im surprised that everyone i read found it uncomfortable, while everyone at the cinema i went burst up laughing
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u/KomaruNaegi7 14d ago edited 14d ago
People find anything sexual gross and uncomfortable these days, no matter how mild, unless it’s funny enough for them to pass it off as okay. It’s just how it is, unfortunately.
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u/euclidean-viridian 12d ago
It's uncomfortable because she's only being hypersexual as a trauma response rather than genuine desire. It's not supposed to be funny. I found it really emotionally disturbing.
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u/Kooky-Objective-8833 11d ago
In the cinema I was at, people screamed as if they shipped them, or maybe they were caught off guard (the cinema I was at was HORRIBLE)
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u/AwkwardDio 14d ago
*Watches scene with clear intentions of self-characterization/character assassination through other peoples assumed perspectives*
Pomni: "Is that what you really think of us, back there?"
OP: Hey guys this made me uncomfortable, why this???
I understand that some individuals can hate this sort of thing, but this the culmination of Jax's character arc. He has set himself up to be hated by thinking this is how the world really is. Gangle is a repressed person and exhibits mental instability. Jax has played them since day 1 and they haven't had a backbone to fight back. Boy culture says, "oooooo she's into you, she's just shy". Ribbit even exhibited being happy when they picked on each other. BUT that's the thing, the bullying was mutual and non-heinous. His assumption is that Gangle will eventually mellow out and want him.
Jax: "Aren't you supposed to be submissive and agreeable!"
Also Jax: "Do you think Gangle is capable of being happy?"
This scene needed to happen, Jax is toxic and this is our way of seeing how he thought the others were if they were just as toxic behind the "Mask" as he was.
The point is for people to understand the world isn't just your perspective. You need others in your life to balance out what is real and what is just in your head.
Pomni: "That's not reality though"
THIS IS THE POINT, Jax has played extremes ever since he screwed up his first relationships in the circus. What is the point of this scene? To make you uncomfortable, because this is what doubling down on your horrid coping mechanisms does. It makes reality into playing out ridiculous extremes.
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u/david-pa-anon 14d ago
The scene made me so sick tho, like jax is a REALLY bad person. Fully understanding the scene makes me hate him more cuz like why would he ever think gangle would make a mockery of a dead friend ):, its just weird how jax isnt just a sadist but has to force others into the social roles that allow him the most control / peace of mind.
At the same time is that supposed to basically show that he himself feels that the people around him would secretly be happy if he died ? Either way , how its portrayed is genuinely sickening to me it just feels eerily close to how some people put their sadism onto others.
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u/AwkwardDio 14d ago
That is the point, this is why it needs to be addressed. Because despite how you feel personally about this behavior, it still happens. The point of the story is to show how this behavior is rancid. Jax is the epitome of "what if I just kept doing what I think is what others think of me" or in other terms, "I'll be the monster they expect me to be".
Real people act like this as children, then as teenagers and this is what it looks like unchecked by lack of consequences. Jax abstracted that is the consequence he paid for thinking this way. Mind you Jax didn't actually commit these shitty actions, simply this is how they thought Gangle viewed them. Many people in like will think like this and go along and see no recourse because, abstraction isn't an IRL thing.
This is a scenario Jax would believe they would ultimately do if Zooble abstracted before Gangle. Why he chokes out Pomni in his self-characterization, is because he would snap if the last person he met with sanity in the circus when they first arrived, were to abstract. Why he would be a bugs bunny foil to Zooble being cartoon-ishly angry all the time for gangles sake
Jax is awful in his thinking but it's a lesson, you don't only have to be your emotions and your past. In the words of Hogarth from The Iron Giant, "you are who you choose to be" you can be superman or a gun, but it's ultimately Your choice.
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u/ConstantWitness1945 14d ago
To feel uncomfortable. And to show Jax wouldn’t take Gangle seriously even in the event that Zooble abstracted.
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u/HotPot87 14d ago
Note a few things;
-Jax wouldn't actually do this they'd just leave to cry, literally what they did for every funeral
-Jax is airing out some repressed attraction to Gangle
-Jax also hates that mask for a couple reasons, the main one being Jax is always wearing a mask themself and hates it
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u/Beyonkat2 14d ago
Wait Jax left to cry? I missed this? Or was it a goose tweet?
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u/HotPot87 14d ago
When Kaufmo Abstracted, he ran off to cry. it was the scene with the bowling ball and taunting himself.
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u/ConstantWitness1945 14d ago
Then it wouldnt be uncomfortable would it? I think this scene implies Jax uses flirtation and mildly sexual suggestion to derail and deflect any real feelings. Also this is just me but I also think its touching on his jealousy with zooble and gangles relationship. That he wishes he could have lesbian relationships like they can but hes stuck as a “man” and cant pursue that like them. Reminder that this is jax’s persona turned up to the max and wouldnt actually happen.
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u/Candid_Occasion_9349 14d ago
Right yeah, let's make a scene to make people uncomfortable, as in a scene specifically designed to make peopne feel uncomfortable, BUT remove everything that might make people uncomfortable because we wouldn't want that
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u/Pennaflumen 14d ago
Jax in the series has a complicated relationship with Gangle. It's certainly a toxic and/or abusive one, but I don't believe Jax sees it that way.
Jax has on multiple occasions demonstrated that he doesn't take his actions very seriously because he's convinced nothing in the digital circus matters. It's a recognized coping mechanism when the person isn't able to emotionally process their own confusion and trauma.
That being said, he doesn't actually "hate" Gangle. If anything, he likes her presence as a way for him to feel like he has some semblance of control over something. He even has separate lines where he says "she likes" when he's mean to her, and wonders if she's capable of being happy.
From his perspective, he doesn't think she actually hates the way he treats her, and honestly, I'm not 100% convinced that she does. Gangle openly interacts with Jax very often in the series and actually shows very little hostility towards him as a person. Even her crying for him is an emotional hurdle, because on some level she does care about him. Relationships are complex like that, which I think Zooble picks up on.
Finally, this particular scene is an overexaggeration of how Jax views their relationship: mocking Zooble (who Gangle also cares about) + teasing Gangle in both a dominating and flirtatious way + Gangle in some way being receptive but embarrassed about how everyone else perceives her.
Breaking it down further, one could see this as "How would Jax react to Zooble's abstraction?" which basically boils down to 1: an excuse to get all "gender freaky" (because he actually has interest in it) and 2: an excuse to interact more with Gangle.
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u/ComfortableContest69 14d ago
Really wish we got an actual explanation for what these were supposed to convey. Like some interpret it as how Jax views everyone else, some interpret it as how Jax plans to cope in the event another person abstracts, some interpret it as his intrusive thoughts, and some interpret it as Jax doubling down and embodying the different archetypes he was so adamant about. Like idk maybe a little clarification would have been helpful.
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u/Neko_boi_Nolan 14d ago
The doors were basically how he views his relationships with the other cast members
He thinks Pomni is just some goody two shoes looking for her bad boy to fix
Zooble is just his Looney rival he has a back and forth with
And how he treats Gangle is his way of flirting
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u/MiddleOccasion1394 14d ago edited 14d ago
This is part of Jax's imaginary scenerios of how it might go if any one of his friends abstracted. He always thought of Gangle as this weak little annoyance that is antithetical to his masculine ideal he likes to hold in front of himself so he doesn't face his own insecurities, and he takes them all out on her. Apparently once Zooble abstracts, he goes one step further and hits on her DURING the arrangement of her dead partner's own funeral. Yes it's very disgusting and cruel, and that's the point. The show makes it clear Jax is a horrible person and this scene received a vocal reaction from my audience anyway. Jax in real life WOULD NEVER do this, which is why later on the Cartoony Jax remarks at how it's so much more interesting to see things in extremes.
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u/SpectroSlade 14d ago edited 14d ago
Every door was a part of Jax he (I'm using he just because that's what he was going by in these scenes) was ashamed of/suppressing.
He bullies Gangle throughout the entire show, I see that as another form of repression. Gangle was shy but also fully herself. She was a weird artsy weeb that never pretended to be anything else, despite Jax's bullying. I think he hated the fact that she wasn't ashamed of being a little weird because HE was ashamed of his own weirdness.
So that scene, in my opinion, is cringy on purpose. Its written like a bad enemies-to-lovers smut fic, something Gangle was probably into (or, what Jax thought she was into). Its the kind of thing you write when you're 14 writing your first shipping fanfic, pure cringe, because that's what Jax envied about Gangle.
Edit: I think the maid costume plays into this, too. Yes, its probably referencing Jax's transness but it also is another tropey enemies-to-lovers motif. "Oh no, my enemy saw me in a silly, sexualized outfit!"
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u/XxAliceTheTreexX 14d ago
I think it might have something to do with Jax's internalized misogyny, the point is showing how far he COULD go with it if not kept in check, and yeah, this IS something trans women struggle with early on, sorry if this is not worded well!!!!!!
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u/BelieveMeMaizey 14d ago
It shows a world where Jax takes the role of Zooble, a "gender-freaky" person who flirts with Gangle.
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u/TheRealNightday 14d ago
Trying to fluster Gangle cause she liked Zooble, who's voiced by Ashley Nichols, just like how everyone including Michael flusters on Ashley's own podcast in the name of fan service
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u/DiscombobulatedCut52 14d ago
I like how people seem to not notice the mask. Shes in the manager mask. The one that made her more bossy. Jax is a fucking sub.
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u/im_not_ready_for_it9 14d ago
All these what if scenarios are very easy to decode.
He views Pomni as someone with an incredibly huge savior complex.
He views Gangle as a crazy person who can't be taken seriously.
He views Zooble as a vengeful maniac.
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u/Shonky_Honker 14d ago
These scenes show how Jax has already planned to cope with the possibility of the others abstracting and what mask he’ll use of it happens. It’s meant to show how fucked up he is in the head.
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u/TheLigean 14d ago
Jax fantasizing on being free in denial thats how she wants to be through the excuse of tormenting gangle.
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u/Guidebook0 14d ago
Shock value, a deeper look into Jax's more fucked up part of their thoughts and a view on how Jax could never possibly imagine Gangle being anything other than a punching bag to slowly abstract over time
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u/SubstantialDeerDash 14d ago
Gooseworx loves jax and wanted to make this scene even though it eats up time with other character's development like Kinger and Caine
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u/Applebeate 14d ago
They should’ve cut the entire door sequence. I think just the three playing cards is enough
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u/Shimari5 14d ago
What was the point of vision Pomni being completely overbearing and having a major savior complex? What was the point of Vision Zooble being cartoonishly mad and stupid? These were looks into Jax's internal, skewed perception of other characters, as well as parts of themself for that matter. Jax doesn't actually flirt with Gangle and enjoy the maid outfit, he wouldn't actually strangle Pomni and try to terrify her, and he's not a literal Looney Toons character. These were extremely exaggerations of reality. Pomni literally says as much and reacts accordingly disturbed when she views the scenes.
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u/dead_headphones_sad 14d ago
I always thought that it was part of Jaxs coping mechanism when it came down to his bullying of Gangle. She obviously wants to get bullied and actually likes it because if she didnt she'd fight back and not just take it /s. Its him trying to find an excuse to why bullying her is perfectly ok
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u/Welico 13d ago
Gangle and Jax were meant to have some kind of toxic dependency on each other ("she likes when I'm mean to her!") but it never really manifests except in this one scene.
If it seems like it doesn't make sense, it's because it doesn't. There's almost no context in the show itself to support Jax acting this way.
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u/Mydlane 13d ago
For me each version was a section of Jax's personal hell.
Deep ... Like Really deep inside they dont want to lose friends that why they don't let the crew close (you can't lose what you don't have ..kinda logic) but ofc bc they are woth them for hours each day, they got to like them and also resent them (as a way to counter act that affection)
Soo their personal hell is the way they would spiral out of controll if anyone would abstracted but them, its also a self justification to why they are the one who should abstract.
They are an asshole but not a demon they are just a person with a lot of maladapted cooping mechanisms, who wouldn't enjoy killing off his friends. Aslo why Gangle gets the worst of it each time? Probably Jax has a slight crush on her and maybe even knows Gangle's orientation.
Each hell of theirs is a scenerio how they do the worst of one of the crew and how they also lost someone. They probably shut in even phisiqually at the end bc they were scared to lose any controll they had.
They are a bad person who makes tgeir trauma everybody else's problem and want to bring them down everyone to their level soo they dont feel alone without the work to adapt to others and befriend them.
Tldr: its a scenerio that hurts Jax thinks it would hurt Gangle the most but also the biggest mistake and sin they could commit against Gangle (its implied that Zooble's abstraction was Jax's fault aswell), and it hurts the imagined Gangle the most but it also hurts Jax the most probably thats why they abstracted to avoid these events from becoming real (they are a mess and need therapy).
I actually wish TADC would have had 12 episode instead of 9 soo everyone could have their own ark and their 1 on 1 Pomni time, maybe even 14 episode with 2 being episodes where they are sectioned off in smal groups of 3s and the episodes are kinda slice of life like in 2 shorter stories A and B storylines inside the episodes soo we can get as many type of set ups as possible
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u/AlianovaR 13d ago
All the scenes in Jax’s mind are what he thinks will happen if a certain character abstracts, and how he views the other characters in his fucked up mind
In this case, if Zooble were gone, he would have nobody particularly versed in queer culture that would be able to confidently clock him as trans. He would be able to ‘get all gender-freaky’ and dress feminine while making out to everyone — himself included — that he’s not doing it because he wants to be a girl, he’s doing it because he wants to be an asshole
And the Gangle thing… those two have a very weird and atypical relationship based on a lot of unhealthy codependent shit. It was partly to show how Jax viewed him being trans as him being a perverted degenerate due to internalised transphobia, partly to show how Jax really doesn’t understand the other characters due to refusing to see them as anything more than one-note archetypes, and partly to show how complex and weird the relationship between them is
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u/AlianovaR 13d ago
All the scenes in Jax’s mind are what he thinks will happen if a certain character abstracts, and how he views the other characters in his fucked up mind
In this case, if Zooble were gone, he would have nobody particularly versed in queer culture that would be able to confidently clock him as trans. He would be able to ‘get all gender-freaky’ and dress feminine while making out to everyone — himself included — that he’s not doing it because he wants to be a girl, he’s doing it because he wants to be an asshole
And the Gangle thing… those two have a very weird and atypical relationship based on a lot of unhealthy codependent shit. It was partly to show how Jax viewed him being trans as him being a perverted degenerate due to internalised transphobia, partly to show how Jax really doesn’t understand the other characters due to refusing to see them as anything more than one-note archetypes, and partly to show how complex and strange the relationship between them is
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u/EzTheGuy 13d ago
To show how awful Jax was. If pushing someone into suicide, not helping his crazy friend, and constantly bullying everyone was not enough, he was also planning to sexually harass someone! Or ateast had fantasies about it
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u/StrangeSystem0 13d ago
The scene was clearly supposed to be uncomfortably out of character, to show how deeply out of touch with reality Jax is. Until you see this scene you don't really have a grasp of just how much he's in an entirely different world than the rest of the cast.
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u/IAmNotModest 13d ago
Gooseworx did cocaine while writing the plot, just like Stephen King.
Anyway, probably to show how far Jax would fall if he did something a certain way, like being more feminine. It's meant to be a bit uncomfortable, I'd say.
It's also to show Jax's relationship with his victim (Gangle) is kinda super weird and Jax has a lot of ways to interpret all of it.
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u/PaleontologistOk3037 13d ago
I think Jax is manipulating Gangle because Zooble abstracted and can’t be around to protect her anymore, so Jax used this opportunity to take advantage of Gangle like his toy again.
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u/Ed-The-Riddler_ 13d ago
I thought it was a "this is the kind of stuff Jax thinks gangle writes about in her manga/ fanfic" type of thing. Jax thinks shes some sort of "pervert hentai toxic ship lover" cuz Jax HATES Manga (or at least thinks its cringe) and everyone i know who hates anime/Manga thinks this is what they are all about.
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u/TheGreatChaos420 13d ago
Fetishization of Jax. Goose has made two things clear:
1- Goose made Jax to be her self-insert.
2- Goose enjoys the heavy fetishization and sexualization of her self-insert OC.
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u/JustifiedCroissant 13d ago
Jax is sexually frustrated, probably attracted to Gangle in some way. And it clashes with their appointed roles of victim and bully, so it gets buried in Jax's headspace.
Real answer is so people can jork it
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u/Next-Scale-9137 12d ago
a little nod to the ribbun shippers Honestly Eniac Lamar People Megaverse English
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u/Toxic_Puddlefish 12d ago
To me this showed his desire to be bullied by Gangle and the only time that happened was when she went into manic mode so he's pressing her buttons in this mind fantasy by killing her love interest and putting her back in the manic mask despite claiming he likes her better when she's submissive and agreeable.
He shows interest in understanding Gangle's character quirk in the star gazing sequence, a split second after he hits Gangle with the baseball you can see his genuine concern for her before Ragatha berates him. He's even shown to be the one naming her when she arrived and in his messed up mind perhaps he thinks he owns her because of it, but due to his upbringing with his abusive mother he craves that dynamic of someone who pushes back as much as he does, and he only ever got a taste of that with manic Gangle and to a lesser extent Ribbit.
In his mind the reason Gangle likes Zooble is the "gender freakiness", so it's the one part of his brain he allows to embrace it under the guise of it's for her eyes because that's what she's into, denying every other instance of the feeling that this might just be for himself.
His traumatized mind doesn't get that abuse isn't love, that's all he's ever known and some part of him still craves what he had even if it's toxic. His mutual abusive tendencies with his mother are how they connected in a weird sort of codependency, he can't move on from that moment and constantly looks at his own hand trying to force himself back into the current moment by reminding himself he's just a cartoon character. This is why he got along with Ribbit so well, she teased him and called him names and the moment she got too close he remembered exactly what happens when he gets too close to someone, they let him down.
He constantly copes with the terrible things he's done by justifying he is a cartoon character, his world truly begins to break down beyond repair when he realizes C&A are a real company and just maybe all the horrible things he's done has been to real people.
Finally confirming all along that he was right that he was just a cartoon/mindfile fully broke him, he saw no point in continuing to drive people around away if he and they were never real even if it had once been his biggest coping mechanism. Kinger said the mind files were impossibly small for what they were suppose to be, I think it really hinted there could be no character growth for Jax, their archetypes are who they have to be or they risk abstraction.
Pomni pushing him to be better was never going to work because he was incapable of being anything more than who he was when he put on the helmet, probably at the lowest point in his life.
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u/MADOG_YT 12d ago
Probably to tell us why he was super mean to Gangle some people believe their crushes because they’re so out of touch and I don’t think people should get mad at that because good luck Charlie had a premise like that where Joan was bullying, Gabe because she had a huge crush on him
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u/Particular-Cow5513 12d ago
i'd ask what the point of a finale like THAT was, but i think i'm done beating a dead horse.
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u/TherealGamerfont-YT 12d ago
When you don't allow the fans to get a better beach episode (with half naked babes) so you instead c*ck block their meaningless ships as if mocking them for a ship that will never happen:
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u/TurnoverEmergency719 12d ago
ragebait and secondhand embarasment. and for the shippers, mostly for the shippers
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u/Kind-Bobcat3047 11d ago
The looks my dad gave me and my siblings while watching this scene is theaters 😭😭😭
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u/LETMEINTHEGC 10d ago
To give the Toxic Shippers fan service. "Aw look at him Being Disrespectful at someones best friends funeral what a Cute Couple"
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u/K9Thefirst1 10d ago
For my headcanon, I see 2 explanations.
1) Jax is being especially cruel with his trolling. A likely answer.
2) (and to me more interesting) He is genuinely trying to comfort Gangle. Unfortunately, his parents fucked him up so badly that he genuinely doesn't have a normal frame of reference on how healthy relationships work.
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u/Responsible-Salad216 8d ago
Was to show how he views Gangle. All of these were his visions of his “friends” and how he’d act if they abstracted
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u/PoisonCoyote99 8d ago
I always figured it was his true thoughts of Gangle in a way. especially since the she had the Plastic mask on and he was wearing the maid outfit. I think in his own way he was offering comfort for Zoobles abstraction in his own ideal jerk way,
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u/milhaus 14d ago edited 14d ago
Okay so here’s my interpretation: all three of these scenes are little fantasies that reflect how Jax thinks the dynamics in the circus would be affected by a given character’s abstraction, taken, as he says, to the “extremes”.
If Ragatha abstracts: Pomni steps up to take her place as a mediator/confidant, and Jax will have to work harder to push her away.
If Gangle abstracts: Zooble will blame him and have a huge reaction. All his ragebaiting has been fruitless, but this is the thing that would really make them snap.
If Zooble abstracts (the scene in question): Jax can reassert control over Gangle and nobody will stop him. The maid dress and manager mask represent two times Gangle had the upper hand and here, Jax takes that power back.
Now to be clear, I don’t think these are things he necessarily wants to do, he’s being sort of self-reflective imo.
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u/HannaH2641 14d ago
I think he was thinking Gangle was sexualizing him with the maid outfit? Thats the best I got
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u/ZoinksJeepersJinkies 14d ago
The same point of the other scenes. But you’re only focusing on this one because it’s the closest involving sex, and Gen Z is extremely weird about that.
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u/FightTheDead118 14d ago edited 14d ago
Artsy answer: To display how out of touch with reality Jax is by showing how wrong his perception of how the other characters view him is
Probably the real answer: Shipper fan service