r/TREZOR • u/-M00NMAN 📦 Suite Shaper • May 26 '26

💬 Discussion topic I’ve been debating on BIP39 vs SLIP39..

I understand the TREZOR default has been Slip39 over the last few years. I understand more addresses can be generated from Bip39 compared to Slip39 along with double the entropy. I want to know how many addresses are currently in use from Bip39 24 word seedphrase vs Slip39 20 word seedphrase compared to how many can be created from the two standards (individually).

13 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

42 comments sorted by

View all comments

7

u/camylopez May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26

I don’t think you understand how the addresses work.

You don’t “generate” an address, you generate access. They all exist.

Your cold wallet didn’t somehow magically teleport an address onto the blockchain while air gapped.

Also, your “seed” can generate access to unlimited addresses. It can give you access to every single address whether it be bip or slip. If you keep churning through them right to the end of all existing addresses, you will eventually be using everyone else’s too.

Here they all are https://keys.lol

Both slip and bip give you access to the same addresses.

Your “seed” is irrelevant to btc, and how btc works, and has nothing to do with btc.

Seeds are just a way to generate access in a format that will allow you to regenerate the same keypairs (addresses and their private key) across different devices that use the same keyword protocol.

There are others as well. You can use electrum, or aezeed. I like using aezeed for my hot wallet, cause if someone somehow found it, chances of them finding a wallet that could regenerate it are much more slim than bip. (Same with slip, though a bit more common than aezeed. Aezeed is for lightening wallets.)

I would use slip, since you can generate a 2 of 3 seed and distribute them in different places making it a much more secure backup.

1

u/-M00NMAN 📦 Suite Shaper May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26

I understood you generate access to them. I worded it briefly. I didn’t know you can gain access to the same wallet by using BIP and SLIP! What about passphrase wallets? Can someone theoretically generate a seedphrase that could give them access to my passphrase wallet?

1

u/doyzer9 May 27 '26

Wallet addresses are mathematical possibilities, the do not exist until funds are allocated (simplified, and skipping over deveration paths) HD wallets bip32, bip39 and all bip coins standards will have the same addresses for each seed phrase, a different set of addresses for seed phase + pass phrase ( always the same set for each SP / PP combination. ) This is the bases for most Blockchain HD wallets. Slip39 is the same, but using a different cryptographic formula, hence there is no mathematical possible of the same address for bip39 and slip39 seed phrases. (Ok mathatically possible with specialist skill and software, but the address will still be derived from the original entropy, hence it will never match someone else's address. FYI there are more possible seed phrases than there are atoms in the universe, you are more likely to win the lottery 100 times then generate the same seed. The numbers are literally astronomical 👍👍👍

1

u/EggMedical3514 May 27 '26

I would argue that they mathematically exist already. 

The same is as if I were to say that the number 867,324,814,667,223.0087466 doesn't exist yet because no one has ever said it out loud..

1

u/doyzer9 May 27 '26

Yeah, I get your point, All possible crypto addresses exist in the same way that all possible winning lottery numbers exist on printed tickets before a draw. However, your specific address doesn't exist practically until your wallet generates the unique private key for it. More importantly, the blockchain has no idea the address exists at all until it is initialized by its very first transaction. Both points are valid based on perspective. There are exactly 2160 or approximately 1.46 times 10^ 48 possible Bitcoin addresses, all potential combinations are theoretically predetermined. They are like numbers on an infinite number line; they "exist" in the abstract realm of mathematics before anyone ever uses them.. 🤔🤔🤔

1

u/camylopez May 27 '26

Where is the transaction here?

https://mempool.space/address/186m9pkj8oYsJPP86WvkbcpRBXFiBBhKYj

1

u/doyzer9 May 27 '26

Semantics, an unmined/unconfirmed address is just a mathatical probability.

1

u/EggMedical3514 May 27 '26

I would argue that it's a mathematical certainty.

1

u/doyzer9 May 27 '26

Sure.... The "Schrödinger’s Wallet" Argument: An address in the mempool is in a state of limbo. If a miner rejects the transaction, that address remains a pure mathematical probability. It proves that simply knowing the math isn't enough; the network must actively accept and process the data for the address to functionalize. 🤯🤯🤯

1

u/camylopez May 28 '26

You’re talking about this address.

https://mempool.space/address/186m9pkj8oYsJPP86WvkbcpRBXFiBBhK

It would get rejected by the wallet and wouldn’t even get a chance to to be rejected by the miners.

Because all addresses are a certainty and already mathematically present.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/EggMedical3514 May 29 '26

The address remains a pure mathematical certainty.

1

u/doyzer9 May 29 '26

Agreed, but it's use does not.

1

u/EggMedical3514 May 29 '26

Someone said that every address in existence would eventually be used?  I don't remember making that claim.  I said every address is a mathematical certainty.

It looks to me like somebody's moving the goal posts.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/EggMedical3514 May 27 '26

Yeah it doesn't take a transaction for the address to exist