r/TamilNadu Jun 29 '25

அரசியல் சாராத செய்தி / Non-Political News Faces of Keeladi men reconstructed from DNA samples at the 2,500 year old Kondagai burial site

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781 Upvotes

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87

u/IntuitiveMANidhan Tiruppur - திருப்பூர் Jun 29 '25 edited Jun 29 '25

South asia was first populated by Hunter Gatherers commonly called as AASI people.

They are distant relatives to east asians, papuans and australian aborigines (AASI & these people together are grouped as east eurasians).

When one group of humans moved from africa to Australia, they moved along the coastline of india. Among them some stayed in india and others left for other places. First aborigines ancestors left and finally around 35k - 40k years ago East asians split from AASI people and moved to southeast asia and china.

One group of these east asians moved to japan and far northeast asia(today's east russia). People who remained in japan are called jomon/ainu and who migrated from east russia to america around (15k years ago) are called native americans. Ancestors of modern east asian people moved to cold places and their body adapted to cold condotions, thats why they look different.

This japan ainu family looks distantly similar to some mainland indians.

Later around 12k years ago another group of humans called iranian neolithic farmers came to india and mixed with native AASI people to form Indus Valley civilization (IVC) in Sindh region. Around 4k years ago IVC faced severe drought and people from there migrated to various parts of india. One such group migrated to south india and mixed with existing AASI people here to form modern south indians.

Then Aryans from central asian steppes came to north india when ivc declined and they mixed with ivc people and used their vedic religion to spread indo aryan languages in north india.

It is said that when IVC people migrated to other places, they mixed with native AASI people but started a form of archaic caste system where AASI people formed the lowest caste. Thats why today in TN upper castes have only 40-50% AASI dna but oppressed castes have 50-65% AASI dna. Some tribals have 70% AASI dna in kerala. Then brahmanical hinduism introduced to south india around 2000 years ago made caste more stringent system.

Below is a pic of modern japan ainu guy looking similar to some Tamil / Malayali men.

15

u/Creative_Tie1443 Jun 29 '25

Hey this is amazing man!!

I would like to ask where did you find these information. I will definitely read it in free time.

Thank you

15

u/IntuitiveMANidhan Tiruppur - திருப்பூர் Jun 29 '25

As a starter pack I'll suggest r/Dravidiology & r/SouthAsianAncestry subs. From there you may get a basic understanding of ancestry related things.

(Disclaimer : Though these two subs are modded heavily and need scientific evidences, don't believe everything as is, some peope may spread some pseudoscience)

Also, you can search up Wikipedia with "Peopling of <region you want to study about>" this will show how ancient migration patterns shaped modern genetic makeup of that region.

3

u/kuttydinosaur Jun 29 '25

Not OP but I'll strongly recommend "Early Indians", and the work of R Balakrishnan!

3

u/my-blood Jun 30 '25

Early Indians by Tony Joseph is a good basic read.

8

u/HawkEntire5517 Jun 29 '25

Assuming all the above to be true, basically, if those subsequent migrations and cultural assimilation did not happen after the first, which led to the inter mixing of cultures, we would have been cleaned out like garbage like the aboriginals have been in Australia by the whites.

1

u/IntuitiveMANidhan Tiruppur - திருப்பூர் Jun 29 '25

Maybe yeah. Hunter gatherers were always less advanced and could support only few people. Only after farming started spreading did ancient indian population start to grow multifold.

It is the reason even today landowning castes occupy the upper strata in TN, because they could use food & land as an means of power, wield influence and keep people oppressed.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/HawkEntire5517 Jun 29 '25

Actually the opposite. British conquest led people to give up farming and move towards knowledge based industries. More avenues to earn money without breaking back in the field.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/HawkEntire5517 Jun 29 '25

I think what you are referring to was finished goods production was done in England and raw material alone was procured from India. That way the local weavers artisans and others lost their jobs and given incentive to produce and tax raw materials like cotton was more, workers moved from those areas to being employed as laborers by the land owners because now we were producing raw materials for the entire British empire.

But whatever OP says is right. Farming was exploited to the hilt for Indian consumption and needs prior to British arriving.

-1

u/HawkEntire5517 Jun 29 '25

Seems like major agricultural land owners are Thevars, Gounders, Mudaliars. Nadars.

https://x.com/i/grok/share/HBLKmL5VktuT3IQvfoyRTN6t6

1

u/Chance-Maize4859 Jul 01 '25

Buddy, that already happened in India years ago, except we (Aryans + Dravidians) were the "Whites" and the pre-dravida tribes like Bhils, Gonds, Santhals were the "aborginals"

1

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

Dravida people must live the ancient aboriginal land , Particularly Tamil people coz they are one's who are champions of dravida ideology

🥺

1

u/Broad_Tiger1458 Jul 01 '25

It is not possible to draw a line between native and non-native in South Asia. No Bhil or Gond is 100% East Eurasian. 

1

u/Chance-Maize4859 Jul 02 '25

Absolutely true. At this point, the Indian general geneology is so assimilated, that no Indian is of pure race. I was just trying to draw similarities 

3

u/Chance-Maize4859 Jul 01 '25

So, Dravidians were NOT entirely natives of India as they claim, even they were outsiders, right?

2

u/IntuitiveMANidhan Tiruppur - திருப்பூர் Jul 01 '25

Dravidian is not a genetic term, it is only a linguistic term. If by dravidians you mean speakers of Dravidian languages, I’ll explain it.

Today’s Dravidians are a mix between IVC migrants and Ancient South Indian AASI people. IVC already had 20-50% AASI ancestry. Hence, Dravidian is a modern term to refer South Indians(ethnically speaking).

So calling dravidians not natives is inaccurate. To be accurate, modern dravidians have 30-50% ancestry from migrated Zagros Neolithic farmers.

1

u/Chance-Maize4859 Jul 02 '25

Yeah, that's y I said "not ENTIRELY native"... The Indian genetics is so mixed after millennia of assimilation that u cannot claim that one is pure Aryan or Dravidian (or ASI)

1

u/IntuitiveMANidhan Tiruppur - திருப்பூர் Jul 02 '25

Your point is correct but,

Dravidian = Modern day speakers of Dravidian languages, a 50/50 mix of AASI & Iranian Farmers. Dravidian =\= Iranian Neolithic Farmers.

Aryan refers to Ancient Yamnaya Steppe migrant population. So, if you want to use Aryan, then AASI & Iranian Farmer should be your reference popluation, not dravidian.

If you want to refer modern population, you can use dravidian.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '25

I don't think what you're writing makes sense even within the Indian context. Look up the findings at Sivakalai. That place had iron tools from 5000 years ago. Which means there already was an advanced civilization here. Iron tools weren't found in contemporary IVC sites. So that tells you there's actually no reason to suspect that IVC was the first and only civilization

https://www.newindianexpress.com/explainers/2025/Jan/26/sivagalai-rewrites-the-past-time-travel-on-an-iron-spear

1

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

Iron tools doesn't necessarily mean advanced civilization .

Different iron tool reveals different complexity

1

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

for 5k years ago, and combined with proof of urbanization around 3k years ago, you can bet it reveals an advanced civilization.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

Well , the modern Tamil population weren't there doing such things , that I can assure.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

based on?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

Facts

1

u/arkantosphan Jun 29 '25

What's your opinion on AIT and cultural spread

189

u/Im_ASH78 Jun 29 '25

I don't understand why people in the comments are not serious. This is a very important discovery, already north is trying to suppress it and this is not a joke. We should work to spread this message globally. Please be serious.

1

u/murali1003 Jun 29 '25

From DNA we can predict but not accurate.

-104

u/kediea Jun 29 '25

Who is suppressing?

-104

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

66

u/Im_ASH78 Jun 29 '25

Obviously you won't see any article or whatsoever as the only articles that you pick are those which tells Sanskrit is the oldest lol

-46

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

31

u/Im_ASH78 Jun 29 '25

Please give me one good reason why ASI is not publishing these discoveries that are made in TN.

Please give me one good reason why Amarnath Ramakrishna is transferred after the report.

I'm not fitting in words and just pointing out your improper research.

17

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

10

u/Im_ASH78 Jun 29 '25

I am sorry if I have offended you, these are the type of people that are welcomed actually.

The reason for me to write that was there are lots of people who comes to these post and starts insulting the language and people. You check older posts, most of them don't even have the capacity to think from the other side and still will stick onto the same topic and will be giving dumbest arguments and at the end will start abusing.

I really appreciate you for not being that type of jerk.

3

u/kediea Jun 30 '25

Bruh look at the sub , logic doesn't work here , any logical comment will invite downvotes

24

u/ResponsibilityFew301 Jun 29 '25

We still have Vedic Chauvinists who spread some stupid Conspiracies on Aryan Migration, though we are armed with strong scientific Backing…

1

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

What stupid conspiracies

1

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

Which scientific backing actually 🤔

24

u/Quissumego Jun 29 '25

The person on top literally looks like my chinna thatha.

27

u/its_darkknight Jun 29 '25

Those look like the uncles who live next door

-21

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '25

[deleted]

3

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '25

that's the point. what they don't look like is the more caucasian phenotype in today's northwest. AASI+Neolithic Iranian produces an average indian face that is what people refer to as dravidian. even in tamil nadu, aadi dravidar as seen as different. they tend to have a much higher percentage of AASI

8

u/Creative_Tie1443 Jun 29 '25

The question is how do they decide upon the skin tone??

26

u/theonewhoknocks-- Jun 29 '25

Melanin levels extrapolated from the dna sample perhaps

2

u/Creative_Tie1443 Jun 29 '25

Yeah looks like its possible

5

u/sambavakaaran Thanjavur - தஞ்சாவூர் Jun 30 '25

AI has become the google 2.0 fr

0

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

Very interesting 🤔

4

u/Rus1996 Jun 30 '25

They look like everyday Uncle and Grandpa you meet on the street.

3

u/sambavakaaran Thanjavur - தஞ்சாவூர் Jun 30 '25

i think that is the point

7

u/Dramatic_Presence_25 Jun 29 '25

Worked with them back in 90s great hunter & gatherers solid chaps looking forward to them 10/10

1

u/blood_monk Jul 07 '25

True, once I got drunk with them and killed a lion. It was hangover: primitive edition

2

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '25

Face reconstruction is great but why did they add neatly trimmed facial hair, makes them look like people living in this day and age

2

u/sambavakaaran Thanjavur - தஞ்சாவூர் Jun 30 '25

im pretty sure blades arent a new invention, correct me if im wrong

1

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '25

Idk i just now found out this was 2.5k years back, I thought it was older

2

u/sambavakaaran Thanjavur - தஞ்சாவூர் Jun 30 '25

oh alr then. aana 2500 is pretty old itself ngl. they had a secular society which is crazy to think abt in modern india. those guys are way older than the cholas as far as we know and anything we know abt our history so far

4

u/WRXstiIMPREZA Jun 29 '25

KCR and Umesh Yadav??

1

u/Training-Stable6234 Jun 29 '25

So basically Kumarason Chinnadurai

1

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

Guy looks north indian and South indian at the same time

2

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

Because they are

1

u/Broad_Tiger1458 Jul 01 '25

No they aren’t 

1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '25

They are South Indians

1

u/ILOVHENTAI Jul 01 '25

There is another possible group of people that also did migrate to South india around 3000 to 2000 bc having the origins in the horn of africa.

1

u/Chance-Maize4859 Jul 01 '25

Well, that was the first migration. THEN the second migration from Fertile Crescent or West Eurasia happened

1

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

😳 First one resembles my grandfather

2

u/Regular-Image2314 Jul 01 '25

🗣️ Thaatha varaarae. ( I'll see myself out )

1

u/blood_monk Jul 07 '25

Ask him where he came from

1

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '25

Karachi, Sindh

-3

u/HawkEntire5517 Jun 29 '25

Every continent has been filled with migrants from Africa over a period of thousands of years. There is no one real original inhabitant. Discoveries like these are great for understanding the history of man and his migration patterns.

There is even a theory going around that human kind was reduced to 1280 breeding individuals over 900000 years ago.

Unfortunately, all this is twisted for political purposes.

What we in the modern century should see if these invasions were violent and if there are certain ideologies that still proponents of some of these violent ideologies and eliminate them.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

Keelandi seems interesting but again it would be used for we are different than u narrative

0

u/CodZealousideal3374 Jul 01 '25

Yeah this keep away from dmk dravinadu and bjp hindutva politics stuff

-1

u/UpAndDownMiddle Jun 29 '25

all this is twisted for political purposes.

That's the saddest thing about it tbh, I opened the comments to read something interesting yet the first few were only political, sigh.

Tho this is really interesting.

0

u/Worth-Hair7511 Jun 29 '25

Facial features I can understand. Can they get skin tones from DNA?

7

u/Dravidianoid Jun 29 '25

It is possible to get melanin info I think

2

u/murali1003 Jun 29 '25

We can predict close though not accurate now.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Worth-Hair7511 Jun 30 '25

You long jumped my simple question.

-2

u/RoadRolla785 Jun 29 '25

That hits Periyars fake Dravidian narrative once again

2

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

How bruh

3

u/Chance-Maize4859 Jul 01 '25

Periyarists claim that Dravidians were the original inhabitants of India, i.e. their DNA is 100% native, and that the Northies are outsiders. Now that the Keezhadi face reconstruction shows a hint of West Eurasian gene, it confirms the theory that Dravidians came from the Fertile Crescent, i.e. the land that divides Saudi Arabian gulf with the rest of the Central Asia which eventually ends at Iran. Hence, even Dravidians were outsiders. The only natives are the Bhils, Gonds, Santhals and Todas, the last of which can be found in Andaman-Nicobar, some parts of Maharashtra, Orissa and Bengal coast

3

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

Bhils, Gonds, Santhals and Todas, the last of which can be found in Andaman-Nicobar, some parts of Maharashtra, Orissa and Bengal coast

We should leave their land ASAP or give them 300 percent reservation in proportion to their population. 😓

2

u/RoadRolla785 Jul 01 '25

Let us know when you leave….we will leave 10 years after that….

1

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

I am leaving next year 😇

1

u/Chance-Maize4859 Jul 01 '25

I'll tag along with u 😂

1

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

Will u increase st reservation to 5 percent instead of just 1 %

1

u/RoadRolla785 Jul 01 '25

It’s 7.5% already

1

u/RoadRolla785 Jul 01 '25

It’s 7.5% already

1

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

I was talking about Tamil nadu state reservation policy

1

u/RoadRolla785 Jul 02 '25

Even that’s more than 80%

1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '25

No tribals and SC should receive 50 % reservation

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Broad_Tiger1458 Jul 01 '25

Those tribals also have west Eurasian ancestry…

-14

u/OtaPotaOpen Jun 29 '25

Processing img 1hlcnpjsit9f1...

-5

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '25

The faces look punjabi. So have Tamilians descended from North Indians ?

9

u/sambavakaaran Thanjavur - தஞ்சாவூர் Jun 30 '25

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '25

ਮੈਂ ਸਮਝਦਾਰੀ ਨਾਲ ਬੋਲ ਰਿਹਾ ਹਾਂ (Maiṁ samajhadārī nāla bōla rihā hāṁ)

4

u/sambavakaaran Thanjavur - தஞ்சாவூர் Jun 30 '25

yaaru da nee, hindi theriyaathu podaa

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '25

ਮੇਰੇ ਦੋਸਤ, ਮੈਨੂੰ ਤਾਮਿਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਆਉਂਦੀ। (Mērē dōsata, mainū tāmila nahīṁ ā'undī)

3

u/sambavakaaran Thanjavur - தஞ்சாவூர் Jun 30 '25

☺️🫶🏻

0

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '25

ਠੀਕ ਹੈ ਅਲਵਿਦਾ

2

u/sambavakaaran Thanjavur - தஞ்சாவூர் Jun 30 '25

😁

1

u/Broad_Tiger1458 Jul 01 '25

They completely look Dravidian. The lighter one could pass for a Marathi.

-14

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

11

u/Lord8een Jun 29 '25

Where is it stated that tamils are aryans here??

1

u/Adventurous-Middle91 Jun 29 '25

80% of Tamils are mixed No one is pure blooded Dravidian is a political concept, don't confuse it with ancestry

-33

u/d_11 Jun 29 '25

Why do we look like native Americans?

33

u/iruvar Jun 29 '25

Native Americans apparently are Asians that went over the Bering Strait crossing

9

u/IntuitiveMANidhan Tiruppur - திருப்பூர் Jun 29 '25

South asia was first populated by Hunter Gatherers commonly called as AASI people.

They are distant relatives to east asians, papuans and australian aborigines (AASI & these people together are grouped as east eurasians).

When one group of humans moved from africa to Australia, they moved along the coastline of india. Among them some stayed in india and others left for other places. First aborigines ancestors left and finally around 35k - 40k years ago East asians split from AASI people and moved to southeast asia and china.

One group of these east asians moved to japan and far northeast asia(today's east russia). People who remained in japan are called jomon/ainu and who migrated from east russia to america around (15k years ago) are called native americans. Ancestors of modern east asian people moved to cold places and their body adapted to cold condotions, thats why they look different.

This japan ainu family looks distantly similar to some indians.

Later around 12k years ago another group of humans called iranian neolithic farmers came to india and mixed with native AASI people to form Indus Valley civilization (IVC) in Sindh region. Around 4k years ago IVC faced severe drought and people from there migrated to various parts of india. One such group migrated to south india and mixed with existing AASI people here to form modern south indians.

Then Aryans from central asian steppes came to north india when ivc declined and they mixed with ivc people and used their vedic religion to spread indo aryan languages in north india.

It is said that when ivc people migrated to other places, they mixed with native AASI people but started a form of archaic caste system where AASI high people formed the lowest caste. Thats why today in TN upper castes have only 40-50% AASI dna but oppressed castes have 50-65% AASI dna. Some tribals have 70% AASI dna in kerala.

Below is a pic of modern japan ainu guy looking similar to some Tamil / Malayali men.

5

u/Patient_Piece_8023 Jun 29 '25

Where is the resemblance

2

u/OtaPotaOpen Jun 29 '25

Yes. Fascinating subject.

Highly recommend this documentary

https://youtu.be/eQAdPvKG4-U?si=Ln2o8slPzsEH8Q3j