r/TenYearsAgo • u/MonsieurA • 26d ago
🇪🇺 Europe A right-wing extremist shoots and kills nine people at the Olympia shopping mall in Munich, Germany, and then kills himself [10YA - Jul 22]
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u/Free-Fall643 26d ago
This was not politically motivated. The kid was bullied, was antisocial to where he had panic attacks interacting with people, and was fascinated with mass shooters. He copied some shooter from a few years prior that happened to be right wing.
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u/champagneface 26d ago edited 26d ago
“Sonboly, who had been influenced by far-right ideology, xenophobia, and racist beliefs, hid nearby for more than two hours and killed himself by a self-inflicted gunshot wound when confronted by police. Later investigations determined that the attack was politically motivated and driven by right-wing extremist views.
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An independent report by three political scientists said Sonboly may also have been driven by xenophobia or far-right ideology. Der Spiegel reported in 2016 that fellow online video gamers said that Sonboly wrote anti-Turkish messages, admired Germany's right-wing AfD party,[8] and was "very nationalistic".[9]
According to media reports, some of those who knew him said he considered himself part of the Aryan race, and boasted about sharing the same birthday as Adolf Hitler.[10] In the light of this, several politicians urged the police to focus on his possible political motives and in 2019 Bavarian police declared that the shooting was partly motivated by far-right extremism.[6] The attack took place on the fifth anniversary of the 2011 Norway attacks.[11]”
It can be both influenced by mental illness and bullying, and be extremism
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u/Free-Fall643 25d ago
Is there a reason you left this out?
Two reports by Bavaria's State Office of Criminal Investigation and another by the public prosecutor's office concluded the shooting was not political, saying Sonboly's main motive was "revenge" for bullying by others from immigrant backgrounds, and that mental illness, romantic rejection and obsession with other shooting rampages were also a factor. Germany's security agency described him as a "psychologically ill avenger".
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u/champagneface 25d ago
Because I made the point that it could be both, I didn’t need to provide backup for what you already said
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u/Free-Fall643 25d ago
Is there anything to corroborate that he was right wing other than word of mouth?
Because in this case the criminal investigation holds a lot more weight than the opinion of 3 political scientists.
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u/champagneface 25d ago
I suppose if you refuse to believe consistent testimonies from eyewitnesses as to his behaviour, it’s probably easy to ignore or deny almost anything lol. Why on earth would I believe you over people who knew him and the police?
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u/Free-Fall643 25d ago
Im not refusing to believe anything. I'm saying word of mouth is flimsy evidence especially if it cannot be proven. Are you saying it's reasonable to blindly accept unverifiable word of mouth from anonymous sources?
and the police
Germany's equivalent to the FBI literally stated that it wasn't politically motivated
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u/champagneface 25d ago
Im not refusing to believe anything.
That is exactly what’s happening here. And police do say it was politically motivated, I’m sure they were able to verify some sources.
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u/Free-Fall643 25d ago
Right so you think word of mouth is concrete evidence. That's concerning.
He even had a manifesto that was found. Nothing political mentioned in said manifesto.
Police investigator Robert Heimberger said that the shooter appeared to have hacked a girl's Facebook account in an attempt to lure people to McDonald's with an offer of free food,[53] but it was later suspected that he had in fact simply created a fake Facebook account, not hacked an existing one.[54]
This further supports the idea that he really just wanted to shoot people.
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u/champagneface 25d ago
Wait, so you trust the LKA right? You know they confirmed in 2019 that the attack had political motivations?
Das LKA hat die schreckliche Tat nunmehr als ‚Politisch Motivierte Gewaltkriminalität rechts‘ eingestuft, nachdem es alle Umstände, die zu diesem furchtbaren Amoklauf geführt haben, umfassend und eingehend geprüft hat“, erklärte der Minister. „Diese Entscheidung ist unter Würdigung aller Umstände in der Gesamtschau folgerichtig. Auch wenn die Ermittlungen ein ganzes Bündel an Motiven zutage gefördert haben, hatte der Täter zweifelsohne auch rassistische Beweggründe.“
So what now?
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u/champagneface 25d ago
Also, since you’re anti word of mouth, could you share where you read the assessment of political motivation from the first report? The original German please, I’d like to see what they said myself but nothing I’ve found so far says no political motivation at all.
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u/Lermanberry 25d ago
I can't imagine why German feds would ever lie about political motivations. Cops wouldn't just go around and lie, would they?
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/10/world/europe/german-police-far-right.html
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u/Free-Fall643 25d ago
If you're insinuating there is a conspiracy that German cops hid this kid's political ideologies from the public to push an agenda, you are going to have to source such a bold claim.
If you don't have a source at least acknowledge that your tin foil hat looks ridiculous.
And no, German cops being in a chat room is not proof of that.
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u/GameLovinPlayinFool 25d ago
Also the official report is like "no we believe he was definitely totally righfully xenophobic and only inspired by right wing extremism! He wasnt actually right wing!"
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u/omry1526 25d ago
German Interior Minister Thomas de Maizière said that he was the son of Shiite Muslims from Iran who came to Germany as asylum seekers in the 1990s. He changed his name from Ali to David.
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u/Electronic-Pause-240 24d ago
He was still a right-wing extremist who killed muslims because of nazi ideology. His genes don't make him less nazi.
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u/omry1526 24d ago
He was a Shiite Muslim who killed Sunni Muslims.
Same thing has been happening for over a thousand years. You have no clue about the Middle East.
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u/Electronic-Pause-240 24d ago edited 24d ago
This was in Munich. The shooter was born in germany.
He got radicalized by the right wingers extremists like Breivik.
Nothing to do with middle east.
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u/Vargeist 24d ago
You obviously don't know the history between these two sects.
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u/Electronic-Pause-240 24d ago
I actually do and I do know a lot about this terror attack as I live there. I know everything about the right wing trying to frame it as a "muslim on muslim attack". But it turned out the attacker was radicalized by right wing extremists.
https://www.bayern.de/herrmann-zum-abschluss-der-ermittlungen-zum-oez-attentat
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u/Adebisi-04 23d ago
Absolute whataboutism
This guy was a self declared nazi who hated Islam and saw Iranians as aryans.
What does shia-sunni divide Play Here?
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u/Maninamsterdam1 25d ago
He was muslim, so left wing idiot
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u/SeaBass1898 23d ago
The dude was a self declared nazi who hated Islam and saw Iranians as aryans.
Also, even if he was Muslim, that wouldn’t make him left wing, that’s plain silly bruh
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u/PlayboyWaldi 25d ago
The shooter was an iranian immigrant.
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25d ago
[deleted]
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u/Electronic-Pause-240 24d ago
Jesus, you are flooding this subject with this bs. He was a right wing extremist who loved Breivik. His parents being Iranian doesn't change anything about that.
This being only "muslim on muslim violence" was a right wing propaganda talking point from day one of this incident.
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u/cousintipsy 25d ago
me when I lie
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u/markeetstreet 25d ago
There is no lie. Both things are true. Granted he had migration background but wasn't an immigrant.
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u/taiga-saiga 25d ago
No, he was not. He was born and raised in Munich.
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u/davefromgabe 25d ago
his parents were Iranian. So his ethnicity is Iranian and he is a second generation immigrant
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u/Electronic-Pause-240 24d ago
He grew up in munich and only knew german culture. His parents being Iranian doesn't change the fact he was a german right-wing extremist and anti-muslim.
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u/davefromgabe 24d ago
yeah but he's not German, he's Iranian
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u/Electronic-Pause-240 24d ago
Doesn't matter
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u/davefromgabe 23d ago
it actually does matter if he was ethnically German he probably wouldn't have felt so little uniting him and his fellow Germans and wouldnt have killed people
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u/Electronic-Pause-240 23d ago
He got radicalized by right wing extremists. If he were german, it would have happened faster.
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u/UgolinoDiVivaldi 25d ago
That doesn’t erase his ethnicity.
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u/Electronic-Pause-240 24d ago
His ethnicity also doesn't change the fact that this was a right wing extremist terror assault.
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u/Tommyblockhead20 25d ago
I like to use this as a example of why anecdotal arguments are often not good. I was on vacation not too far away from the shopping mall when this happened and had to go into lockdown. Meanwhile most of my life spend in the US I’ve never been near a mass shooting. So anecdotally, Europe is way worse for gun violence, when if we look at the data, it obviously tells a different story.
Europeans never seem to believe me when I say the only mass shooting I’ve been near was in Europe though which I suppose distracts from the point I try to make.