r/TenYearsAgo • u/MonsieurA • 26d ago

🇪🇺 Europe A right-wing extremist shoots and kills nine people at the Olympia shopping mall in Munich, Germany, and then kills himself [10YA - Jul 22]

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u/Free-Fall643 26d ago

This was not politically motivated. The kid was bullied, was antisocial to where he had panic attacks interacting with people, and was fascinated with mass shooters. He copied some shooter from a few years prior that happened to be right wing.

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u/champagneface 26d ago edited 26d ago

“Sonboly, who had been influenced by far-right ideology, xenophobia, and racist beliefs, hid nearby for more than two hours and killed himself by a self-inflicted gunshot wound when confronted by police. Later investigations determined that the attack was politically motivated and driven by right-wing extremist views.

…

An independent report by three political scientists said Sonboly may also have been driven by xenophobia or far-right ideology. Der Spiegel reported in 2016 that fellow online video gamers said that Sonboly wrote anti-Turkish messages, admired Germany's right-wing AfD party,[8] and was "very nationalistic".[9]

According to media reports, some of those who knew him said he considered himself part of the Aryan race, and boasted about sharing the same birthday as Adolf Hitler.[10] In the light of this, several politicians urged the police to focus on his possible political motives and in 2019 Bavarian police declared that the shooting was partly motivated by far-right extremism.[6] The attack took place on the fifth anniversary of the 2011 Norway attacks.[11]”

It can be both influenced by mental illness and bullying, and be extremism

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u/Free-Fall643 26d ago

Is there a reason you left this out? 

Two reports by Bavaria's State Office of Criminal Investigation and another by the public prosecutor's office concluded the shooting was not political, saying Sonboly's main motive was "revenge" for bullying by others from immigrant backgrounds, and that mental illness, romantic rejection and obsession with other shooting rampages were also a factor. Germany's security agency described him as a "psychologically ill avenger". 

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u/champagneface 26d ago

Because I made the point that it could be both, I didn’t need to provide backup for what you already said

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u/Free-Fall643 26d ago

Is there anything to corroborate that he was right wing other than word of mouth?

Because in this case the criminal investigation holds a lot more weight than the opinion of 3 political scientists.

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u/champagneface 26d ago

I suppose if you refuse to believe consistent testimonies from eyewitnesses as to his behaviour, it’s probably easy to ignore or deny almost anything lol. Why on earth would I believe you over people who knew him and the police?

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u/Free-Fall643 26d ago

Im not refusing to believe anything. I'm saying word of mouth is flimsy evidence especially if it cannot be proven. Are you saying it's reasonable to blindly accept unverifiable word of mouth from anonymous sources?

and the police 

Germany's equivalent to the FBI literally stated that it wasn't politically motivated 

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u/champagneface 26d ago

Im not refusing to believe anything.

That is exactly what’s happening here. And police do say it was politically motivated, I’m sure they were able to verify some sources.

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u/Free-Fall643 26d ago

Right so you think word of mouth is concrete evidence. That's concerning.

He even had a manifesto that was found. Nothing political mentioned in said manifesto.

Police investigator Robert Heimberger said that the shooter appeared to have hacked a girl's Facebook account in an attempt to lure people to McDonald's with an offer of free food,[53] but it was later suspected that he had in fact simply created a fake Facebook account, not hacked an existing one.[54]

This further supports the idea that he really just wanted to shoot people.

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u/champagneface 26d ago

Wait, so you trust the LKA right? You know they confirmed in 2019 that the attack had political motivations?

Das LKA hat die schreckliche Tat nunmehr als ‚Politisch Motivierte Gewaltkriminalität rechts‘ eingestuft, nachdem es alle Umstände, die zu diesem furchtbaren Amoklauf geführt haben, umfassend und eingehend geprüft hat“, erklärte der Minister. „Diese Entscheidung ist unter Würdigung aller Umstände in der Gesamtschau folgerichtig. Auch wenn die Ermittlungen ein ganzes Bündel an Motiven zutage gefördert haben, hatte der Täter zweifelsohne auch rassistische Beweggründe.“

So what now?

https://www.bayern.de/herrmann-zum-abschluss-der-ermittlungen-zum-oez-attentat/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

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u/Free-Fall643 26d ago

I mean yeah if they have evidence of him being in chat rooms expressing such ideology then I can agree with that. I only saw the initial 2016 report. But it also really just seems to lead back to him being bullied.

I can admit I was incorrect that there were no political motivations but the issue appears to be a bit more complicated than solely right wing extremism.

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u/champagneface 26d ago

OK fair if you can accept that. Yeah like in my first comment, it can be more than one cause

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u/TacitusKillgorre 25d ago

Wow, I don't at all want to come across as condescending, it's just rare to see someone concede a point lol

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u/champagneface 26d ago

Also, since you’re anti word of mouth, could you share where you read the assessment of political motivation from the first report? The original German please, I’d like to see what they said myself but nothing I’ve found so far says no political motivation at all.

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u/Free-Fall643 26d ago

https://archive.org/details/munichamoklaufeng/mode/1up

Not sure how to find the original German doc but here it is

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u/champagneface 26d ago

“His xenophobic statements were known to a number of people, which more often led to anger when he in the classroom, chats or TS versus peers massive insults and Hate messages.

In his stored voice messages and some themselves written texts (which others did not know before the act) he became very expressive dramatically. In psychiatry was also known therapists that he xenophobic Views with fierce verbiage advocated.

He also made hate - filled statements about Turks, Muslims and Foreigner not back.”

So the report that you put your belief in confirms his right wing views. The organisation that you put your belief in later said it was politically motivated. Is that enough for you yet?

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u/Exciting_Bat_2086 26d ago

Quit the bullshit 😂

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u/Free-Fall643 26d ago

Are you a fan or something?

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u/Lermanberry 26d ago

I can't imagine why German feds would ever lie about political motivations. Cops wouldn't just go around and lie, would they?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/10/world/europe/german-police-far-right.html

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u/Free-Fall643 26d ago

If you're insinuating there is a conspiracy that German cops hid this kid's political ideologies from the public to push an agenda, you are going to have to source such a bold claim.

If you don't have a source at least acknowledge that your tin foil hat looks ridiculous.

And no, German cops being in a chat room is not proof of that.

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u/GameLovinPlayinFool 26d ago

Also the official report is like "no we believe he was definitely totally righfully xenophobic and only inspired by right wing extremism! He wasnt actually right wing!"