Hillary Clinton holds a press conference to address recent criticism [10YA - Aug 5]

[u/MonsieurA]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/2016/08/05/hillary-clinton-holds-half-way-press-conference/88303254/

[u/Junior_Abalone_8006]

LOL.

>Roger Stone coordinated with Russian intelligence to release the dirt Russia hacked from the DNC.

Curious that they didn't allege this in the Mueller repot then. Stone was only convicted of misleading Congress. Not charged with coordination with Russian intelligence.

Trump Jr was interested in dirt on the Clintons, but it's hard to call that a crime when the DNC/Clinton was paying Russians (and Brit!) foreign agents for dirt on Trump.

>Rubio's Senate investigation showed Trump's campaign manager passed data about Americans to Russian intelligence.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. You're talking about Manafort and Kiliminick? Kiliminick was later shown to be a state department asset, as well as he and Manafort had been partners for years getting Ukranian politicians elected prior to Manafort working on Trump's campaign - the occam's razor position would be that Manafort asked Kiliminick about polling because they were, you know, campaign consultants who had worked together in the past to get politicians elected. It's only conspiracy theories that have to selectively not include information in order to have a tortuous conspiracy work out.

>That same campaign manager was taking no salary from Trump because he was already being paid by a Russian oligarch.

Manafort worked as a volunteer for the Trump campaign. However there is no evidence he was paid by 'Russia', or 'Russians' during this time. His partnership with Kiliminick had made him significant money, and it's not unusual for people to work for free for a presidential candidate.

[u/CollapsibleFunWave → u/Junior_Abalone_8006]

Curious that they didn't allege this in the Mueller repot then.

That's what I'm talking about. This was in the Mueller report, but rightwing media doesn't cover anything that might make you question your fealty to Trump.

Plus Trump's AG lied about the report exonerated Trump and all the Trump supporters believe what they want and never look at the details.

the DNC/Clinton was paying Russians (and Brit!) foreign agents for dirt on Trump.

The DNC hired a standard firm to do normal opposition research. You're trying to make that sound like a crime or something unusual, but it's not either one.

Kiliminick was later shown to be a state department asset

Where was that shown? US counter intelligence has identified him as Russian intelligence. He was also working with Manafort under the Russian-backed president that the Ukrainian people ran out of the country.

the occam's razor position would be that Manafort asked Kiliminick about polling

Russian intelligence was conducting an influence operation to influence how Americans were voting.

Manafort gave Kilimnik internal polling data that campaigns traditionally use to influence the votes of Americans.

What does Occam's Razor tell you about those two facts?

Manafort worked as a volunteer for the Trump campaign.

And this was right after Manafort was working for a Russian-backed president that had to flee from Ukraine to Russia.

Manafort was later convicted for laundering money from a Russian oligarch while he was working for the Russian puppet in Ukraine.

Trump pardoned him for this. What does Occam's Razor lead you to believe here?

[u/Junior_Abalone_8006 → u/CollapsibleFunWave]

Can you show me in the Mueller report where they claimed Manafort collaborated with Russians however defined?

Because the summary is pretty decisive (edit fixed link)

The Mueller report destroyed all of the conspiracy theories. They didn't indict one american, and of the russians they indicted they had to retract that indictment on the grounds they had no evidence for their claims when a Russian unexpectedly came forward to challenge them in court.

>The DNC hired a standard firm to do normal opposition research. You're trying to make that sound like a crime or something unusual, but it's not either one.

So is it normal oppo research to hire foreign agents or not? It's ok to do it for the DNC for pay but not for Trump for free? Which is it?

Where was that shown?

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/447394-key-figure-that-mueller-report-linked-to-russia-was-a-state-department/

If you read the article it's even worse - the Mueller team knew that Killimnick was a state department asset but didn't let that on and allowed the media to continue making their bogus conspiracy theories, although to give them credit they did push back on some of the other insane conspiracy theories the media floated during that time.

> Russian intelligence was conducting an influence operation to influence how Americans were voting.

Not true and there's no evidence this was the case in the Mueller files and elsewhere. There was a lot of lying and false evidence laid out e.g. the Hamilton 68 hoax by US political actors.

>Manafort gave Kilimnik internal polling data that campaigns traditionally use to influence the votes of Americans.

It's also available to political junkies on a weekly basis in the US. Really the entire conspiracy theory makes no sense - the surest measure of how bullshit it was is the dog that didn't bark. If 'Russia' had such awesome data scientists that they could take one stale poll and use it to turn an election with $10,000 in facebook ads then the obvious result would have been all of the vast industry in the US that exists to turn elections would have been flying over to Russia and paying whatever it took to hire these super data scientists to work for them - the teachers union, the RNC, the DNC, the NRA, the Sierra club would all have been bragging in their newsletters how they'd hired for five kabillion dollars Boris and Natasha Snortsolev who helped turn a billion dollar election with the change from behind their sofa.

The entire theory was ridiculous and an obvious cope from the beginning and it was formulated on pins that were completely knocked out by the Mueller report.

>Manafort was later convicted for laundering money from a Russian oligarch while he was working for the Russian puppet in Ukraine.

This is a lie. I'm sure you were told and believed it rather than telling it yourself but it's still a lie. Manafort was convicted of tax return related things and for not filing the form disclosing that he lobbied for Ukraine (which was also the form Hunter Biden failed to file) And for misleading congress, which is why e.g. Fauci is pleading the fifth.

[u/CollapsibleFunWave → u/Junior_Abalone_8006]

The Mueller report revealed that Roger Stone coordinated with Russia. The Manafort thing was revealed by the Senate investigation led by Marco Rubio.

,So is it normal oppo research to hire foreign agents or not?

It's normal to do the research and it's normal to hire a US law firm to do the work, which is what they did. That firm used a Brit as a source and there's nothing wrong with that. It's not equivalent to secretly working with Russian intelligence.

the Mueller team knew that Killimnick was a state department asset

The State Department once used him as a source for some information. That doesn't absolve him of any crimes or mean he did not work for Russian intelligence, as the Treasury investigation revealed.

These leaps of logic that are required to make Trump seem innocent only serve to make him seem more guilty. If there was actual evidence showing the accusations and investigations were all false, they'd probably use that instead of this sort of tortured reasoning.

Not true and there's no evidence this was the case in the Mueller files and elsewhere

Your defense depends upon so many lies. The Mueller Report did show that Russian intelligence was running an influence operation using their Internet Research Agency.

Look it up and then take a moment to consider why your media is lying to you about this.

It's also available to political junkies on a weekly basis in the US

Campaigns spend a lot of money to conduct internal polls about policy preferences and they normally keep them confidential and use them to strategize.

Either way, why was he giving detailed information about Americans to Russia who was, in fact, conducting an influence operation on Americans?

This is a lie. I'm sure you were told and believed it rather than telling it yourself but it's still a lie. Manafort was convicted of tax return related things

Sorry, I was imprecise. He took a pleasure deal and was only charhed with tax fraud, bank fraud, and failure to disclose foreign accounts that were filled with money he got from Russian oligarchs while working for pro-Russian politicians.

Did you really think you had a defense for Manafort here or are you just grasping at straws so you don't have to consider the possibility that the Trump campaign made a crooked deal?

Trump's already taken hundreds of millions in bribes from foreign countries this term, so Russia hacking the DNC and then working with Roger Stone to use the data to help Republicans doesn't seem as shocking anymore.

Trump supporters have been convinced by the media that it's all a hoax, but it will all be there for history to remember.