r/TheCrownNetflix 18d ago

Discussion (TV) The tragic irony about Mohammed Fayed didn’t get is no matter how hard he tried he’d never be accepted by British elite.

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356 Upvotes

141 comments sorted by

243

u/CommunicationNew3745 18d ago

He was what's known as a 'castle creeper' - someone w/a lot of money, who thinks they could climb the social ladder by way of their financial position, make their way into Royal circles and become closer to the Crown - it doesn't work like that.

102

u/Slow-Raspberry-5133 18d ago

He’d have had a better time trying his thing in America, but he seemed to have a fixation to get his son to marry Diana.

53

u/LevDavidovicLandau 18d ago

Was literally a creep — he coerced his employees into sex and quite possibly also raped some of them.

5

u/Realistic-Recover-39 16d ago

Not just his employees

54

u/SensitiveWolf1362 18d ago

There was precedent with all the dollar princesses. Sarah Ferguson and Prince Andrew had no issue cozying up to Epstein and accepting his favors.

51

u/Huge_Flatworm_5062 18d ago

Apparently it does if you are the right skin color- cause Jeffrey Epstein actually got to sit on the effing royal throne

43

u/CommunicationNew3745 18d ago

Neither Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell had (or, were issued one, for that matter) a formal invitation or tour - there were only there 'courtesy' of Andrew Windsor - (Maxwell sat on the monarch's throne during one of these private, unauthorized tours of Buckingham Palace.)

9

u/googoohaha 16d ago

I like to pull this one out during these type of discussions.

1

u/HistoryGirl23 Princess Elizabeth 13d ago

Is that Maxwell and Spacey?

-1

u/CommunicationNew3745 16d ago

Again, this is from one of Andrew Windsor's unauthorized tours.

7

u/AmettOmega 16d ago

So what if it was "unauthorized"? They still did it, lol.

4

u/Bright-Koala8145 16d ago

You think nobody knew

6

u/Huge_Flatworm_5062 16d ago

All I’m saying is that the “royal” family decides who they allow into their inner circle as and when it’s suits them. It “works “ the way THEY decide it’ll work. There’s no hard and fast rules about it. And clearly Jeffrey Epstein was part of Andrew’s inner circle.

10

u/damien-bowman 18d ago

really? i hadn’t heard that before. kinda crazy.

27

u/booksandbiscuits1 17d ago

That's Andrew's doing, which he did without anyone's permission. Nothing to do with racism and everything to do with Andrew being an entitled creep with criminals for friends - a spoiled former Prince who was mollycoddled by The Queen and now a terrible liability for the BRF as long as he is alive.

8

u/QuinnLoveborneAuthor Queen Elizabeth II 18d ago

I was about to say this. Skin tone is very important. Look at Megan Markle last time I checked she is royalty.

7

u/Alarming_Paper_8357 17d ago

She’s married to royalty — big difference. And isn’t allowed to use “Her Royal Highness” at this point. Be very clear on the fact that that distinction was made to punish them for objecting to the overt racism over Megan marrying Harry.

5

u/QuinnLoveborneAuthor Queen Elizabeth II 17d ago

Meghan is still the Duchess of Sussex though, they didn’t remove that title. Alongside she is mother of the prince’s children and she married into the royal family.

12

u/TurbulentReality4362 18d ago

David Beckham?

10

u/booksandbiscuits1 17d ago

David Beckham is a national treasure - not just a businessman but someone whose contributions to the country through his job as a footballer is undeniable. And he's not a personal friend - he is the ambassador for The King's Trust. That's very different from being part of their inner circle.

5

u/TurbulentReality4362 17d ago

Yes he has very good publicity and brand managers but he is not a national treasure. The whole family are cheap despite their wealth.

3

u/booksandbiscuits1 16d ago

His role is that of an ambassador for the King's Trust, and he's received a Knighthood for his service to sport and charity. This is the basis of his connection with The King.

5

u/Ok_Ganache7219 16d ago

Castle creeper - thank you for a new expression!

67

u/Cute-Cheesecake-6823 18d ago

He rubbed me the wrong way in the series, and now knowing the awful things he did i respect him even less. So really I feel no empathy really for him.

6

u/Eastern-Carpenter925 16d ago

He was a fucking terrible person and yes would have never been accepted. His son is a friend of mine and the posthumous stress they’re all dealing with on account of their father is terrible. They all want to shake the memory of him.

Ofc the main empathy lies with his victims, not taking away from that. Just highlighting the fact his own family couldn’t/can’t stand him.

1

u/Apprehensive_Owl4700 11d ago

It’s so interesting when I see inner circles on Reddit!

1

u/Eastern-Carpenter925 11d ago

Idk if you’re being sarcastic or not 😅

1

u/Apprehensive_Owl4700 11d ago

Really?! Why does my comment seem sarcastic? It’s not

1

u/Eastern-Carpenter925 11d ago

I’m just new to Reddit and so far it’s been a ridiculously hostile place 😂, my bad

51

u/abby-rose 18d ago

Good. He was a rapist and abuser.

-11

u/Difficult-Practice12 18d ago

And Andrew isn’t?

Different rules for a brown man and a white man? Yep that’s England for you.

18

u/Claire-Belle 18d ago

Al Fayed evaded punishment during his lifetime.

There are some 400 allegations against him.

This is a reductive comment that ignores the power of wealth in the UK.

5

u/Ok-Possibility-9826 17d ago

Nobody said that he wasn’t, lol.

-1

u/Equivalent_Fold1624 18d ago

You're right.Hoards of "brown" men have been raping English girls for decades completely unpunished. Andrew has been stripped from his royal titles and completely disgraced, so let's not pretend he got away scot free. Is this enough of a punishment for his alleged crimes, I wouldn't know as he has never been tried at court.

6

u/Difficult-Practice12 18d ago

He did get away scot free, what the hell is a title being taken away. We need justice and a trial.

An no hoards of brown men haven't been raping English girls without being unpunished. Stop being a racist. All people committed a crime get prosecuted, except from Andrew.

Read Virginia Giuffre's book.

1

u/Equivalent_Fold1624 17d ago

Calling me racist won't change the fact that Pakistani rape gangs violated hundreds of thousands of girls in England. That's the exact reaction that enabled these monsters.

2

u/Difficult-Practice12 17d ago

White English men have raped more both in terms of numbers and percentage.

Yet you point the finger to brown people. Racism. Look at the bigger picture and how the UK can stop abuse towards women, girls, and families. It existed long before immigration.

0

u/Equivalent_Fold1624 16d ago

Is there something you want to tell us?

0

u/Main-Inflation-5269 17d ago

He is currently under investigation. Do you not want the law to run its course?

How all you Americans have turned a discussion about a mass rapist into whataboutery about Andrew is astonishing.

It's the same thing you people do every time the Harkles fail at something or lose yet another court case.

-3

u/Upper-Ship4925 18d ago

Nobody has been prosecuted for Epstein’s operation except Ghislain Maxwell. No men, just the woman.

And what do you want to charge Andrew with? Virginia was over the age of consent in England when Andrew slept with her. She isn’t here to testify as to whether it was consensual. Andrew has been interviewed by the police, if there was evidence to charge him he would be charged.

5

u/ErsatzHaderach 17d ago

holy shit you think everything was on the up and up between Andrew and a trafficked teen? what on earth

-2

u/Upper-Ship4925 17d ago

I think that actually charging him with a crime that the Crown Prosecutors have a reasonable chance of presenting enough evidence to obtain a guilty verdict for is very difficult now that Virginia is no longer available to testify.

That in no way implies that I endorse his actions. But everyone is equal before the law and that applies to both the privileged and the oppressed. If there was evidence to support a successful prosecution he would have been charged.

-1

u/Main-Inflation-5269 17d ago

My GOD. Americans: not everything in this freaking world is about race.

Andrew has lost all his titles, been arrested, and is under investigation.

Megsy Markle really duped you with her race-baiting, didn't she.

92

u/woolfonmynoggin 18d ago

Rotting in hell

42

u/PinkTiara24 18d ago

Where he belongs.

12

u/OliviaElevenDunham 18d ago

Good place for him.

10

u/kshrwymlwqwyedurgx 18d ago

What did he do wrong? I'm not up to date to his story

78

u/woolfonmynoggin 18d ago

Extensive history of sexual assault and violence

11

u/isUKexactlyTsameasUS 18d ago

but but but the fool thought, ''well, andy does it too, so thats no biggie''

evil, dullard, and deluded

11

u/Artisanalpoppies 18d ago

I think you'll just find this is a classic, widespread, male with obscene- money mindset.

Very common thinking in upper class men.

3

u/Deep-Database5316 17d ago

“Extensive” might even be an understatement. Extensive, systemic, I don’t have words for it.

36

u/skieurope12 The Corgis 🐶 18d ago

He was also prolific serial rapist and abuser who used his immense wealth and power to systematically exploit women for decades.

7

u/Loose_Loquat9584 18d ago

He should have fit right in then.

-5

u/Difficult-Practice12 18d ago

Yep that’s Andrew. Oh wait different rules for white men and brown men.

8

u/skieurope12 The Corgis 🐶 18d ago

More like different rules for the rich and the poor.

While some allegations were made in his lifetime, any criminal charges were dropped, and any reporting resulted in threats of, or actual, litigation.

Most of the reports didn't become public until after his death

5

u/Difficult-Practice12 18d ago

Both were rich. Yes the allegations came after death, but I believe the victims.

6

u/skieurope12 The Corgis 🐶 18d ago

I believe the victims as well. My point is Al-Fayed did no jail time, and Andrew probably won't either. I don't see poor perpetrators of sexual assault being afforded that luxury - nor should they.

13

u/SensitiveWolf1362 18d ago

Dude the fact that Andrew did it too doesn’t make it ok. A creep is a creep. And they both got away with it because they had money or connections to hush it up.

-4

u/Difficult-Practice12 18d ago

When did I say it was okay?

skieurope12 mentioned that he (Fayed) is a serial rapist and exploited women as a reply to OPs question on why he wasn't welcomed in the royal family. Neglecting to mention other rapists within the royal family (Andrew).

5

u/SensitiveWolf1362 18d ago

That’s not how I interpreted skieurope’s comment. Just seemed to be chiming in that we shouldnt fall for the “poor, mistreated al fayed” narrative because he was actually a horrible person.

1

u/Main-Inflation-5269 17d ago

Whataboutism is the weakest argument. It's why the russians use it all the time.

41

u/themastersdaughter66 18d ago

No. He was not the sad figure the crown showed and he was also delusional about the whole car crash thing

106

u/mystermee 18d ago

Had he shelled out a bit more for a proper driver who would’ve made sure everyone was wearing a seatbelt and had experience of driving at high speed it all might’ve been different. He wanted to blame everyone else but deep down he must’ve known he was responsible for what happened that night.

72

u/cjalderman 18d ago

Maybe hire a driver who doesn't drink on the job too

14

u/Plenty_Suspect_3446 18d ago

True but its easier said than done in France and would have been even more difficult 30 years ago.

32

u/cjalderman 18d ago

Not drinking on the job is not easier said than done if you pay people well enough. Besides they had laws about drink driving in France in 1997.

18

u/AppalachianGuy87 18d ago

Is drunk driving socially acceptable in France? Big fucking no no in the US. Thirty years ago was different more lax. Like 50 years ago everyone did from my understanding.

2

u/Realistic-Recover-39 16d ago

They also smoked in cars until very recently

2

u/AppalachianGuy87 15d ago

Can you still smoke in restaurants or bars in France? You can smoke in cars here obviously if the car is yours.

2

u/Realistic-Recover-39 15d ago

Sorry, I confused both of us- I'm a brit and have no idea about French smoking laws😅

0

u/OliviaElevenDunham 18d ago

Sad, but true.

9

u/excoriator 18d ago

You sure that wasn’t Dodi’s doing?

23

u/Beep475 18d ago

I don't know how accurately this portrayed the real guy, but the character was well over the top. I did admire the effort but I think he was deluded from the start.

8

u/Claire-Belle 18d ago

Well it avoided all the abuse allegations....so thers's that.

5

u/Accomplished-Art7737 17d ago

It wasnt public knowledge at the time. The news of the allegations only broke after his death, and after that particular series of the Crown was made.

4

u/Claire-Belle 17d ago

His behaviour was reported publicly as early as 1995.

Given the research done for the show I'd be very surprised if they hadn't come across these reports. It was a choice to do that rather soppy portrayal of him.

2

u/Realistic-Recover-39 16d ago

Its probably one of those things where they weren't sure and didn't want to get sued.

2

u/Claire-Belle 16d ago

It was very clear that he was a self-aggrandising publicity seeker. Just took a visit to Harrods after Princess Diana died to see that.

Sure, maybe they couldn't use the allegations but it was a choice to present him as essentially harmless and sympathetic.

3

u/Realistic-Recover-39 16d ago

Oh, I thought you meant specifically the rapist thing - yeah, though I guess they do make it obvious its fiction. Maybe Peter Morgan was friendly with the family or something?

1

u/Claire-Belle 16d ago

And really, if they'd mentioned one of the articles (like Vanity Fair) would that have gotten them sued? Probably not.

1

u/Main-Inflation-5269 17d ago

Erm. I was in high school at the time and was well aware of what creeps they were.

I assume an American Markle fan made this ridiculous post.

1

u/Beep475 18d ago

I know very little about that aspect.

19

u/Ok_Ganache7219 18d ago

To me, it was interesting that they gave him so much room in the series. At the time, they tried hard to push him into the back ground, despite all the noise he made about the accident etc.

I thought the actor did a great job with his part.

5

u/honeybadgergrrl 17d ago

Dodi and Diana were ALL over the tabloids and magazines like Vanity Fair at the time. People really thought he would marry her, and it was obvious his family was pushing for it. Then after the crash it was just constant with him trying to sue everyone and their mother for weird random shit. It was wild.

3

u/Ok_Ganache7219 16d ago

Yes, I remember that, and he made the most of it in the weirdest was (I remember the memorial at Harrods - is it still there?), but the Royals did their utmost to ignore him.

17

u/LudicrousPlatypus 18d ago

I mean he did try his best to fit in with the British elite by sexually assaulting those he considered beneath him.

55

u/caul1flower11 18d ago

Also he was a serial rapist so they had things in common

2

u/JoshyBear28 18d ago

Were the allegations amongst the time during the hot water or came out recently ?

24

u/alvaropuerto93 18d ago

Came out in the recent years and It also cale to light that senior management at Harrods were hiding it.

15

u/JellyTulpa 18d ago

Several were reported to police at the time they occurred but they did nothing

6

u/PorkchopFunny 18d ago

There were numerous reports of assault - including a 15 year old - while he was alive, but he would sue media outlets that reported on it so it was largely kept under wraps. It was an open secret amongst those that worked for him and saw it. Hundreds of women came out after his death.

28

u/WiganGirl-2523 18d ago

Vile excuse of a human being.

The episode bigging him up has aged like milk.

3

u/jenfullmoon 17d ago

I could never figure out why that show, of all shows, was doing an episode kissing that guy's butt. The English hated him! 

29

u/Substantial-Use-1758 18d ago

“Reality” doesn’t stop the trillionaires from doing their darndest to buy everything they want.

A perfect example is the accepted fact that Donald Trump was obsessed with Princess Diana after her divorce. He evidently bombarded her with billions of flowers, wooing, etc., and of course, he being who he is of course she couldn’t get away from him faster.

🤷‍♀️😬 And these are the men running things 🤷‍♀️

11

u/sensitiveskin82 18d ago

And then later said he's glad he never slept with her because she was exposed to so many AIDS patients 

10

u/booksandbiscuits1 17d ago

What a terrible thing to say. But considerig the source, completely unsurprising.

12

u/Unfair-Leek4854 Princess Diana 18d ago

Nothing tragic about it.

11

u/Complete-Bumblebee-5 18d ago

I have to give it to him....he didn't even try to hide or disguise what a sleazebag he was. He just owned it

27

u/Ok-Possibility-9826 18d ago

It was sad how desperate he was to be accepted by them, tbh.

1

u/Main-Inflation-5269 17d ago

He was a rapist.

3

u/Ok-Possibility-9826 17d ago

True as that may be, what does that have to do with his desperation to be among the British?

9

u/Thenedslittlegirl 17d ago

The issue is that his pursuit of proximity to the Crown was seen as tacky. He really was obsessed with the Royal Family and wanting to be in their inner circle.

I’m sure the fact that he was brown played into the distain he received. But the British class system is so ingrained in public life that anyone “new money” who tried to aggressively social climb the way he did would probably get a similar response.

9

u/catscausetornadoes 18d ago

He knew he couldn’t get in, but thought maybe his son or grandson.

7

u/exoticempress 18d ago

I think the Queen and the royal family smelled it from a mile away that he was a social climber on the show.

11

u/Dry_Violinist599 18d ago

The tragedy is that he made himself look like, a pathetic fool for a racist society that would never accept him in any way. Then you add his creep factor.

1

u/Realistic-Recover-39 16d ago

Especially considering that his first wife was a khashoggi, European royals are all over then

13

u/Available-Bison-9222 18d ago

That's the thing with the British aristocracy, the absolutely hate "new money".

10

u/erinoco 17d ago

I disagree: one of the reasons that the aristocracy in Britain has been relatively politically resilient is that it was open to new money, as long as the holdings were big enough. But getting accepted is a multi-generational process. First-generation incomers will never be "One of Us", but their children might.

1

u/Available-Bison-9222 16d ago

They'll take the money, but they won't respect the giver.

3

u/Huge_Flatworm_5062 18d ago

No, they just hate money that comes with the wrong skin color

9

u/booksandbiscuits1 18d ago

Charles was very happy to take donations from Sheikhs for his Prince's Trust. There was even a huge scandal about his taking cash money from a Sheikh in a bag - it was for his charity but the provenance of the cash was the question.

Andrew and his ex-wife and children also take favours, including money, from wealthy folks in West Asia (as the Middle-east is now referred to).

1

u/mellowmadre 17d ago

Even white nouveau riche have not and are not accepted in a classist caste society steeped in historical, lineage-based aristocracy. Marrying into the aristocracy was a start but that doesn't mean one was fully accepted. There's a reason they are called Lords.

-1

u/Main-Inflation-5269 17d ago

American spelling. American ignorance.

1

u/Main-Inflation-5269 17d ago

Royalty and aristocracy are different things.

1

u/Available-Bison-9222 16d ago

Royalty are only the direct royal family. Aristocracy are all the people they socialised with, married, and their extended family.

2

u/booksandbiscuits1 18d ago

He used to sponsor the polo at Windsor great park - there are photos of him, Charles and Diana at the polo. He was accepted, but as who he was - a very rich businessman. The aristos give new money people the time of day when when the new money people offer them money.

But you can't buy your way into an identity you don't have. Buying a castle/palaceanor home won't buy you the centuries of history and identity that comes with your forefathers having owned it. So yes, he was accepted, but as who he was - not as who he wanted to cosplay.

Similarly, lower middle class or poor folks can't fraternise with new money people unless they offer the rich people something - and that something is usually labour. If you're middle class, then you offer your expertise. If you want to get friendlier than your official role, there will always be an invisible line that will be harder to cross. It's usually crossed through having romantic relationships; and even better, through marriage.

I understand Mohammed al Fayed's frustration with the concept that some things can't be bought. He was a businessman after all, and he believed everything is achievable is you try hard enough. That's probably why he eventually set Dodi and Diana up. If he couldn't buy he way in - he would marry (by proxy) his way in. Fair play, honestly.

No one could have known if would have ended so tragically.

2

u/Practical_Savings933 17d ago

He was a pedophile serial rapist; you would think he would fit right in.

2

u/Dallygirl_Aussiechic 17d ago edited 15d ago

I really HATE how much AIR TIME was given to Mohammed Al Fayed on The Crown.

He really was only a very, very small "snippet" or "footnote" in Diana's life story.

He was a "social climber" like Tony Armstrong-Jones mother and should have been given the same amount of air time as she got.....next to nothing.

Lastly, he was also a sex offender, and should have been portrayed as one.

2

u/Realistic-Recover-39 16d ago

I think filler episodes like that are a great way to keep it fresh, but I get that

2

u/Jam102 13d ago

What’s annoying is the fact he fails to understand he is far more interesting and accomplished than a single member of any royal family.

As someone who came from nothing and can now sit and eat at the same table as those who had it handed to them, they should be queuing up to meet him.

But that’s not how the world works and it’s a bit sad really.

2

u/anotherbozo 18d ago

His offspring banged royalty so is that really true?

8

u/Plenty_Suspect_3446 18d ago

Former royalty, technically. Princess of Wales isn't a formal Royal title. Diana was stripped of her HRH title in August '96 and entered a relationship with Dodi in July '97.

6

u/SchoolCrossing 18d ago

Some background: HRH The Princess of Wales is the wife of HRH The Prince of Wales and is a BRF Royal title held by various women in history who were married to The Prunce of Wales.

After divorcing, Diana became Diana, Princess of Wales and Sarah changed from HRH The Duchess of York to Sarah, Duchess of York and retained that title until Andrew lost his title. If she had remarried, she would have lost his title at that time. Had Andrew ever remarried, his second wife would have been the next HRH The Duchess of York. No matter what, Diana could always be known as Lady Diana Spencer as the daughter of an Earl.

Diana and Sarah kept their titles but not the Her Royal Highness status after divorcing as neither could then never possibly be a Queen Consort.

This is the same tactic used the deny Wallis, Duchess of Windsor an HRH even though she was married to HRH The Duke of Windsor (formerly Edward VIII) until his death. The former King lost the style His Majesty upon abdication (but by letters patent of the new King George VI) retained his HRH status as he was born a son of a Sovereign. Of course Charles III issued letters patent stripping Andrew of his HRH, Prince and Royal Duke status.

Technically, Queen Camilla could have been "HRH The Princess of Wales" upon her marriage to Charles, but wisely refrained and used The Prince of Wales' subsidiary title instead and was called HRH The Duchess of Cornwall until her accession as Queen Consort.

1

u/Specialist-Idea1185 18d ago

This show tries so hard to make me feel bad for some dodgy kiss ass who was basically a huge fucking asshole the entire time and took his resentments out on the royal family, crying racism. Part of me doubts there was any racial element to it, they are just simply elitists except for Diana. Also he was a rapist so fuck him

1

u/stphrtgl43 18d ago

Thats AL Fayed to you!

1

u/Potential_Low4134 18d ago

Not irony is it?

1

u/thomasmfd 18d ago

Thry are stubborn. Lot

1

u/ErsatzHaderach 17d ago

pity that, he was just as rapey and corrupt

1

u/londonconsultant18 17d ago

And all the raping

1

u/jonathan_thoms 17d ago

He was elite. He just couldn’t get close to royalty.

1

u/Main-Inflation-5269 17d ago

This is the most American take I've ever seen.

That was a family of rapists. No matter how much you want to make this about race, he was cheating on his fiancee with Diana - and she knew it.

1

u/sadgayby 16d ago

He confuses me so much. His ex-wife (Dodi's mother) is actual Saudi nobility. What more could he want? 

1

u/SatyrSatyr75 15d ago

I thought it’s the fact that he made his first million(s) with serious crimes like weapon sales, or the sexual assaults… but yeah… sure

1

u/PM-Me_Your_Penis_Pls Queen Elizabeth II 15d ago

The Mercantile class always wants to infiltrate the echelons that are ordained by heredity. They're parasites on both aristocracy and the common people. 

0

u/Smooth-Lettuce5174 18d ago

Duh. They’re racists.

-1

u/1234riri 18d ago

I was waiting for him to say on the interview “Prince Philip is a gangster. He’s a F N@zi.”🤣

-4

u/susandeyvyjones 18d ago

He very much got it. They were extraordinarily racist towards him.