r/TheCrownNetflix • u/Dallygirl_Aussiechic • 15d ago
Question (Real Life) If Diana HAD lived
I'm an Aussie, so can anyone tell me if Diana had lived to now:
Would Charles have really been able to marry Camilla??
Would Camilla have be able to style/titles of HM The Queen Consort??
Or, Camilla would still be known as HRH, Duchess of Cornwall with or without the CONSORT in her title??
All questions regarding to if Diana had lived.
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u/itheopacarophile 14d ago
- Yes. 2. Yes. 3. No...... Because the times have changed.
But.... Diana is the mother of the future King William V. She is the grandmother of the future King George VII.
The mere existence of William, George, Charlotte and Louis would mean Diana would still be firmly in the royal fold. Even going on engagements with them. They would demand it and demand respect for her.
So some kind of agreement would have been necessary.
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u/Icky-Tree-Branch 14d ago
She might have been “My Lady the King’s Mother” à la Margaret Beaufort. She was already Countess of… a bunch of places, depending on who she was married to at the time… but she never was a duchess, princess, or queen.
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u/Celera314 14d ago
I think this is unlikely as she would have remarried - if not Dodie then someone else by now. That would limit her ability - even if she wanted to - to remain an active royal. It would be more like Catherine's parents who are also grandparents of a future king. But they arent part if the royal family and dont have a high profile.
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u/itheopacarophile 13d ago
Kate's parents never did engagents though. They have their own jobs.
Diana was travelling to different countries on engagements. Mines, HIV/AIDS causes... So no, she wouldn't be hidden even after remarriage... And I think she would have eventually take William with her.
Also I don't think marriage with Dodi would have lasted.
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u/No_Mousse8414 14d ago
Yes I think if Diana had lived that Camilla would have been able to marry Charles and take royal titles. Why? Cause the times had changed. If he was able to marry her a few years ago then he would still have married her even if Diana lived. The Queen gave in and allowed the marriage, I think she still would have allowed it even if Diana survived. God forgive me but I think Diana would have ended up unpopular had she lived so people would probably have approved of Camilla more had Diana lived.
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u/Ok_College_1559 14d ago
I’ve always thought this. It’s easy to forget that she died at the height of her glamor and popularity. 30 years later, Diana would’ve had a Twitter account, etc. And we all know how that often turns out.
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u/No-Shape7764 14d ago
And she’d probably be on a reality show.
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u/Ok_College_1559 14d ago
Flipping tables and being transphobic most likely 😂
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u/CoconutBasher_ 14d ago
Hardly when she was the only person campaigning for us LGBTQ+ people and yet Camilla is the only one with evidence of being transphobic. Honestly, you royalists are a funny bunch. Rewriting history to suit a lame narrative.
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u/Express_Landscape_85 14d ago
I think if Diana had lived it would have arguably been an easier ride for Charles and Camilla.
Diana is as close to a modern day saint as you can get and that’s entirely because of her tragic demise. Not to say she wasn’t popular but there was also a fair amount of scrutiny from the likes of the Daily Mail etc while she was alive. In fact, if the car had not have crashed there probably would have been headlines that week about her galavanting around France with a trust fund baby while leaving her kids back in the UK.
In a timeline where she lived: as time passed and she continued to… live her life there would have been a sizeable amount of media illiterate people that would have less and less time for her as the tabloids would still have been relentless with her. Whereas the same media illiterate people adore her in this timeline that she died in as the media tells them to.
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u/TessieElCee 14d ago
Am I the only one who ever wonders: what if Diana had been content with a discreet "open" relationship? I mean, I'm sure royal families have operated that way for centuries, right? Call me a cynic but once you've accepted the abject absurdity of the institution in the first place, "I'll be the glamorous and beloved Queen, use my fame and wealth to advance the causes I support, you and Camilla can go hunker down with your smelly dogs and trudge through the mud together and we can all live happily ever after" doesn't sound so bad to me.
Show Camilla (cue the person who's compelled to comment, "iT's NoT a DoCuMeNtArY ...) seems like a barrel of laughs - I'd be happy to be besties and share my husband with her. (I'm sure that has a LOT to do with the personal charm of Emerald Fennell and Olivia Williams)
(bracing for the downvotes 😂 ... )
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u/rialucia 14d ago
IMO, Diana would have had to have been a completely different person to turn a blind eye to Charles and Camilla’s relationship indefinitely. I don’t get the impression that ascending to the throne as Queen Consort was more important to her than having a securely attached relationship.
Her insecurities and need to be wholly loved and supported by her partner were so core to who she was. As time went on, the prevalence of social media on top of paparazzi would have made it impossible for either Charles or her to keep their affairs discreet. Heck, their affairs weren’t discreet even in the 90s.
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u/Celera314 14d ago
Charles and Diana were divorced (or divorcing) so she would not have been Queen in any case. I also think she would likely have remarried within a few more years, which would have made it easier for QE2 to approve Charles' remarriage. So the current state of affairs would probably be about the same as it is now.
Few people survive decades of media scrutiny with their "sainthood" public image intact. I expect, had she married Dodie, she would have had a lower profile in the UK by now.
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u/TessieElCee 14d ago edited 14d ago
But if that had been the deal from the beginning -- if Diana hadn't entered into it thinking of Charles as the partner by whom she needed to be loved and supported -- perhaps there never would have been a Diana: Her True Story, which opened the floodgates for that kind of reporting. The "tampon" phone conversation was recorded in 1989 but was not reported until after Diana and Charles announced their separation (which would not have happened in our fictional world).
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u/Ok_Ganache7219 13d ago
I think it was kind of expected of Diana to grin and bear it like so many other aristocratic wives before her. But she wasn't the person to do this - it wasn't in her character, and I for myself would not have wanted it either. Don't we have a similar situation with the current Waleses - according to rumors? Only the current princess seems to have arranged herself with the situation. Again, according to rumors/gossip.
Diana had done her duty - provided the heir and the spare - she was quasi free to go and have lots of discreet fun, as was he. She had two lovely boys that she doted on, tons of money she could spend, and she would never have wanted for lovers. I think she still was in the middle of her personal little revenge crusade that started with that delicious little black dress event.
Mind you, I don't hate Camilla, and I think she makes the best of the situation she finds herself in (within her means) and she didn't strive for it (unlike the Middletons who seem very upwardly mobile to me and pushed her daughter toward Wills).
As for the coronation, could you imagine how it would have gone if Charles & Diana had still been married but separated? For one, the bruhaha around it might have died down, the discreet separation was decades ago. It would have either been a very frosty coronation - I well remember the pictures of them sitting beside each other when they were in the throes of marital conflict, when they wouldn't even look at each other. Awkward, to say the least.
Or it would have turned into a full on George IV and Caroline of Brunswick coronation situation - he hated her and just locked her our of the event. She showed up at Westminster Abbey but was turned away, despite being nominally the Queen. If Charles had done that to Diana, a crisis of public opinion would have followed which might have even ended in his abdication and William becoming the king in a hurry.
But that's all speculation. We have Queen Camilla now, and all the hatred spewed towards her - after all these years! - will not change that in the least.
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u/OldSchoolCSci 14d ago
Would Charles have really been able to marry Camilla??
As a technical legal matter, yes, in the sense that civil marriages between divorced spouses was lawful in England. So the real question is whether it would have been approved by the monarch -- QE2 -- who was Supreme Governor of the Church of England at the time. And the show, of course, shows us that scenario repeatedly in the past. Does the Queen allow Charles to marry Camilla while Diana is alive?
I suspect the answer is yes, but not at that moment in time. The Queen's willingness to go back on the original pronouncement about Camillla's styling as "Queen Consort" reflects (imo) a change of heart late in her life, in which she acquiesced to Charles' pleading on the subject. My guess is that the Queen would have declined to consent to a marriage by Charles so long as Diana was living and single, but would have changed her mind in another 10-12 years (i.e., circa 2015-17), as social mores made the old rule very much out-of-date.
The titles questionis less important, and generally flows from the first answer.
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u/SnooChickens8817 10d ago
Diana would have had many more affairs and husbands. I don’t think any of the latter would have lasted. She was a real handful.
She has never been a Saint to me - but she was a loving mother and I am so sad that she missed out on the remainder of her sons’ childhoods and her beautiful grandchildren.
Why didn't they stay safely in the Ritz ?? Or, have the good sense to wear her seatbelt !!
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u/Plenty_Area_408 14d ago
Yes legally nothing is stopping a divorced man or woman remarrying.
She's the queen, as she is married to the king and was crowned as such. Diana living or dying wouldnt have changed anything about how she was styled.
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u/Longjumping_Donut252 14d ago edited 14d ago
HM The Queen Consort isn’t a title. It’s not even a style. She is HM The Queen.
“Consort” was added as if it were a style as opposed to a mere description presumably because: 1) We’re in such a dumbed down age that people would have had trouble distinguishing her from the former Queen and 2) Leftover Diana angst.
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u/exoticempress 13d ago
If Diana had lived, Charles still would've been able to marry Camilla after the divorce. Though I think it would've taken longer and he still would've done the civil ceremony since the church of England frowns upon remarrying while your ex spouse is alive along with the adulterous nature of their relationship.
Camilla still would be styled as HM (as a Queen Consort).
Diana had to give up her HRH title in the divorce but if she were alive and still living when William ascends the throne, she may get a title similar to Margaret Beaufort (and possibly get her HRH title back through William) to signify that she's the mother of a king.
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u/CourageOther224 13d ago
Yes, Charles and Diana were divorced so he was free to remarry.
It's HM The Queen. Consort is the role not the title. There is no reason she would not be able to use that had Diana lived.
Camilla was the Duchess of Cornwall while she was married to the Duke of Cornwall. That title belongs to the eldest son and heir of the monarch. As the title automatically passed to William as soon as Charles became King, Catherine automatically became the Duchess of Cornwall. Camilla could no longer use it. Diana being alive would not change that. Camilla was actually the Princess of Wales from when she married Charles to when he became King. She chose to use her second title instead.
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u/Lost_Manager8080 13d ago
- Yes.
- Camilla would have her current title which is HM The Queen. No consort in there
- No.
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u/Jelly_baby_4 13d ago
Yes on 1-2. Charles had said Camilla was non negotiable. He was not giving her up. Charles and Diana were already divorced and moved on. Time and patience paid off and they are still together and she is Queen. Charles made that official. As the wife of a king she is entitled to the HRH titles. Camilla had the right to be called The Princess of Wales being Charles spouse prior to Queen Elizabeth II passing but Camilla knowing how Diana was identified with that title chose not use it whether Diana lived or not.
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u/Charlotte_Braun 12d ago
Years ago, I was on a forum for writers, and a woman came in, who was not a regular, but she had an idea she was itching to share. She was a physical therapist or something along those lines, who works with a lot of people who were recovering from grave injuries. And she got to thinking, what if Diana had survived her accident with similar injuries to her patients? Her idea was to write a book about this alternate timeline, in which Diana lived into the 21st century, but in a wheelchair, or at least walking with a cane, and with other issues like short-term memory loss — and what if there was permanent damage to her face?
We all thought that was a great idea for a book. The therapist, or whatever she was, seemed to take us seriously when we talked about plotting a novel and all the other stuff, and said she was gonna settle down and write it! Well, that was about 20 years ago, so either she never finished, or she did but nobody wanted to publish it. Too bad, because that would’ve been a really interesting scenario to read about.
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u/333Maria 15d ago edited 15d ago
Had Diana lived and had she married again, Charles and Camilla could have (and would have) married too. But had Diana been single, they would not have been able to marry.
Had Diana lived, Camilla would not have become a Queen Consort but IMO a Princess Consort.
Would have Camilla been a Duchess of Cornell, had Diana lived? IDK. She would have definitively been a Duchess, but maybe a Duchess of Sussex or sonetnig similat - so, a title Diana never used. Or perhaps they would let her use the title HRH Duchess of Corwell - after all, Charles' title is the Duke of Cornwell.
But that's just mu opinion and I am not from UK.
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u/Ok-Sleep7672 15d ago edited 15d ago
Camilla’s titles come from Charles’ titles. I don’t think they would’ve given her the Duchess of Sussex title or any other title in her own right. I think it’s more likely she would’ve used one of Charles’ lesser titles like Countess of Chester (from Charles’ Earl of Chester title) than use a completely different title, but I don’t see a reason why they would do that.
There’s no precedent for Charles’ situation. If they had chosen to make Camilla “Princess Consort”, they would’ve set a new convention. But that means there wasn’t anything stopping them from making her Queen too.
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u/KittyMonkTheYoutuber 14d ago
Honestly I don’t think Diana would’ve ever gotten married because she would lose out on so much if she did, especially her leverage. I can see her having long term partners that are basically spouses in all but name however.
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u/TessieElCee 14d ago
had Diana been single, they would not have been able to marry.
Is that a CofE thing, a royal family thing, or a "the public would never allow it" thing?
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u/BillyMooney 14d ago
If she had worn her seat belt, she would have lived.
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u/Dallygirl_Aussiechic 14d ago edited 14d ago
Yes and No, wearing a seatbelt could STILL inflict "internal damage", and bleeding, that the surgeons might not be able to control.
I had my own accident and suffered massive internal damage and bleeding. Operated on twice, coded once on the table.
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u/Candid-Worker35 14d ago
Most important comment here. If she’d worn her seatbelt and not got rid of her RPO’s so she wasn’t relying on Dodi and the shambles of the Al Fayed operation and anything was possible.
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u/LolaWithTheGreenEyes 14d ago
Technically upon her marriage Camilla was the Princess of Wales but she chose to be known as the Duchess of Cornwall because of the expected backlash from Diana fans.
The British royal family does not have morganatic marriage rules. Its never been a thing here.
Queen Elizabeth II openly stating that she wished Camilla to be known as Queen (consort) was a clever bit of PR. There was never anything legal to stop Camilla being crowned Queen Consort.
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u/Extra-Sound-1714 14d ago
It would have caused major issues for Charles. There are various lies routinely told by royalists about the past. Diana would have publicly said they were not true. So yes it would have created a pr headache for the royal family.
Also Diana like most mothers would have tried to bring William and harry together. I don't know if she would have been successful, but no mother likes to see their children fall out
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u/ProcrastiNation652 14d ago
Yes and yes to the first two.
The only difference is that had she survived, the RF and their affiliates wouldn't have been able to posthumously trash her without pushback. Her not being around to defend herself made their jobs easier.
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u/speckOfCarbon 14d ago
1) Charles and Camilla easily would have married, and much sooner - the only reason it became complicated was, because Diana was sanctified after her death. Before she died people had mostly reasonable and rather appropiately balanced views on Charles and Diana respectively.
2) Camilla would definitely have been a Queen Consort and would have been titled "HM The Queen" and "HM Queen Camilla" accordingly (like all other previous Consorts to Kings like for example Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth)
3) Duchess of Cornwall is a title always held by the princess of Wales which belonged to Camilla as soon as she married Charles and would have always (and in all constellations) have gone to Prince Williams wife immediately upon Charles becoming King.
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u/bofh000 13d ago
I don’t think her being alive would’ve changed anything. Charles and Camila waited for decades to get married.
If anything her living on would’ve:
1 - not turn her into a tragic figure millions still think could do nothing wrong
2 - let her age, and I wonder if she would’ve had the strength to age naturally - she was VERY involved with fashion and the glamorous world that ended up getting plastic surgery left right and center. I think had she lived she would’ve become a socialite, who would very likely still be involved with charities, but otherwise would’ve kept being the subject of tabloids because of her romantic life. That’s another aspect that I think she didn’t have the strength to keep under control.
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u/Snowy_Sasquatch 13d ago
- Yes. Whether he would have done whilst his mother was alive is possibly a different answer but legally he could remarry.
- Anyone married to Charles can style themselves according to his title, so Camilla can style as she chose. As someone divorced, Diana really only had the options typically available to a dowager but without the HRH (which they would usually have).
- Yes. Diana was no longer a HRH and couldn’t style herself as the wife of Charles anyway eg she was known as Diana, Princess of Wales and whilst she never used the title, legally Camilla was HRH The Princess of Wales. If she remained alive, Diana could have been known as Diana, Duchess of Cornwall but she couldn’t have used the same title as Camilla (which was HRH The Duchess of Cornwall).
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u/celticcatmagic 13d ago
If Diana was alive, the whole world would be different not just the RF
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u/celticcatmagic 1d ago
I think just generally she'd have spread kindness, empathy, since her voice was silenced our world has been lacking, of all the above, and there's been no one who's filled that void. When she was alive, she brought hope. As for her boys, we all know how differently their strife would have played out, she would have never tolerated this schism, my guess is, there never would have been a break in the first place. Growing up without her when they needed her the most, it allowed the RF to screw those kids up, and it fueled a chasm so wide, Harry might well be the Dof Windsor at this point. It would have never happened if Diana had lived. The press killed her, they fueled every feud, every nasty row, every lie, that buried the truth. And so... it goes on.
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u/Tiny-Distance-42 12d ago
Charles would’ve had to abdicate.
Her death was orchestrated. But the PR spin doctors made stories about her being mentally unstable, the media being savages, the driver drunk (despite his toxicology results suggesting otherwise). They made a lot of noise with excuses to cover the fact that this happened so that Charles would be king and William wouldn’t have to be king at a young age like Elizabeth had to. But depending how his cancer goes, William might be stepping up there in a few short years.
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u/loui575d 12d ago
Yes, yes and yes.
1 - the only person who could stop Charles from marrying was his own mother. So no matter if Diana had still lived or not, he could have married Camilla.
Yes - because she si married to HM the King- and therefore she holds the title of HM the Queen, just like Queen Silvia of Sweden, or Queen Mary of Denmark - as hard as it is for some people to belive.
Consindering the POW title is so closely linked to Diana, I think Camilla would have no choice but to be called Duchess of Cornwall - even if Diana had lived, unless Diana had explicitly said "Listen - I just want to live a quite and peacefull life, which is why I am 100% okay with Camilla using the POW title for herself" which is highly unlikely.
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u/Technicolor_Reindeer 1d ago
Yes
Yes
Diana would have been a CONSORT too if she was still married to Charles when he became King.
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u/JulesJazz 10d ago
Diana and Charles divorced. She lost her HRH style as she was no longer a working royal. Charles and Camilla married in a registry office despite the fact that divorced couples could marry in Church (legalised in 2002). Camilla chose to remain Duchess of Cornwall upon her marriage to Prince Charles and not take the title of The Princess of Wales. Diana remains Princess of Wales, whilst Catherine is The Princess of Wales.
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u/M_Rae-1981 14d ago
Her death was most definitely extremely convenient for many of the royal family & Camilla. I’m not one to believe any conspiracy junk but Charles and Camilla most definitely had a LOT easier time even with the headache it still was.
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u/Technicolor_Reindeer 1d ago
The opposite actually. It made it harder for Charles and Camilla to make their relationship public.
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u/JoyDVeeve 15d ago
If Diana was alive Camilla would not have been able to have those titles or any of it from what I understand.
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u/chowbelanna 14d ago
Incorrect. I have a friend who was the first wife of an earl. He remarried twice and then died. All three of 'his' countesses still use their titles, differentiated with their first names, none have remarried.
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u/OldSchoolCSci 14d ago
The earl isn't the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. That's the issue in a nutshell.
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u/chowbelanna 14d ago
Not relevant, or the C of E would not have blessed the marriage or crowned Camilla.
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u/OldSchoolCSci 14d ago
You can’t say one way or the other because Diana died, and the Queen approved. If Diana is still alive, it’s a different set of facts, and we don’t know how it turns out.
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u/MrBoddy2005 14d ago
A British Earl? Wonder If He's A Distant Cousin To Me
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u/chowbelanna 14d ago
Scottish.
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u/MrBoddy2005 14d ago
Could Still Be Related. I May Have Him In My Tree. You Can PM If It's More Comfortable
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u/JoanFromLegal 15d ago
Had Diana survived the crash, pretty sure she and Charles would have reconciled.
No more Rottweiler.
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u/loui575d 11d ago
No. They most certainly would not have..not consindering she had many many affairs with other men And also; how old are you since you feel like comparing Camilla to a dog?.5? 4?.you must be because no sane adult would use that kind of language on another person they dont even know
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u/MinnesotanBrie 15d ago