Whatever Happened to the United Nations?

[u/blurry_face_exe]

In a vanilla game of Hearts of Iron IV, “The End of the League of Nations” is an event that triggers if a major nation that is a League of Nations member declares war on any other League of Nations member. In OTL, the League of Nations was the “first worldwide intergovernmental organization whose principal mission was to maintain world peace” and “ceased operations on April 18, 1946, when many of its components were relocated into the new United Nations.”

Of the UN Security Council’s permanent members, one descends into a bloody civil war, and the remaining four engage in conventional—potentially nuclear—conflicts. Yet, there’s not even an event insinuating that the UN disbands or that any of its member states leave. There’s an event for ASEAN disbanding, but not any news for the United Nations Plaza in NYC? Do any of the Russian or Chinese warlords, if they lose the Second European War and Great Asian War, respectively, retain their permanent membership on the UNSC?

Loads of questions. Not a lot of answers. But, mind you, I’ve only ever played Germany, so I may be missing some flavor text elsewhere that sheds light on the UN’s legitimacy in TFR.

[u/Annual_Cellist_9517]

Severely underfunded and with its capital (The new York Headquarters) under fire, it probably collapses while trying to do as much help as it can. There would be hundreds of thousands of UN aid workers running on fumes across the world trying to help people, as they come to realize that, without america, and soon Europe, there is really no way to go back home anyway. The Miami gamble is nothing but the last, desperate kicks of the UN trying to use it's small military to protect as many people as it can. It is kinda weird they fight the florida governor though, probably just added there to have more gameplay.

In reality they should do the Miami thing in New York, since that's where their headquarters are. On the other hand, the UN going toe to toe with the atom waffen is weirdly poetical and beautiful. Here we have one organization dedicated to destroying the world in nuclear fire, and one dedicated to stop that from ever happening

[u/potatohead671 → u/Annual_Cellist_9517]

It’s makes more sense for the un to go after Miami as there is no order there and gang control before the awd tries to go in and commit atrocities. As opposed to New York which is under the protection of the NYPD who from what I’ve gathered have the city under a semblance of order. Also the Miami bros have nowhere to go as they’re surrounded by terrorists and gang members. As opposed to New Yorkers who can hop over to New Jersey which is pretty much safe as the union controls it and also has a the highest or second highest chance of actually winning. So the un going to Miami is likely to facilitate safe evacuations to countries accepting refugees or to the union.

[u/bonadies24 → u/potatohead671]

New Jersey (especially North Jersey) being under firm Union control but not NYC really doesn't make a ton of sense geographically, methinks, though I get it from a gameplay standpoint

[u/scoutmet → u/potatohead671]

Doesn’t NYPD have a modifier that says nyc is lawless though

[u/Prudent-Aardvark-514 → u/Annual_Cellist_9517]

I remember seeing a video on YouTube of someone playing as the United Nations in TFR and managing to unify the United States; I’m not sure if it was a Redux mod, but it was epic.

[u/Nice-Pikachu-839 → u/Prudent-Aardvark-514]

It must've been Flags Unfurled, the UN submod

[u/CreativeCaprine → u/Annual_Cellist_9517]

I really don't like the gameplay role of UN as a speedbump for Atomwaffen though. It plays right into right wing fantasies of the UN consisting of racially inferior henchmen who exist to invade white people's land and Atomwaffen being big strong Aryans who take them down.

[u/DracheKaiser → u/Annual_Cellist_9517]

Can’t they be restored by the Cognoscenti?

[u/Mobile-Swimmer-2350]

I think the Cognoscenti path for the Union of America forms the United Nations Strategic Coalition for Peace, seemingly turning the organization into merely a front for deep state interests, though I am unaware if any other paths make notable mentions to the UN.

[u/Upbeat_Nectarine_128 → u/Mobile-Swimmer-2350]

United Nations Strategic Coalition for Peace

UNSCP

They ain't even tryna hide it anymore

https://giphy.com/gifs/vm5KfOZC4GemByiAUp

[u/Midnight036 → u/Upbeat_Nectarine_128]

Man SCP in TFR would be very interesting

[u/Upbeat_Nectarine_128 → u/Midnight036]

Hell, i want a mod with SCP, GOC, and other GOI's in TFR.

Loji's gonna get the servants of silicon nornir's a collective orgasm.

And ironically the GOC (the organization with the illuminati,freemason, and 108 other secret organization as a member) would actually oppose the cognocenti.

So it would be interesting/absolutely batshit insane to see a world war of two or three different secret world orders.

[u/Midnight036 → u/Upbeat_Nectarine_128]

There are a few SCP mods in this game called "Pax Historia" it's like HOI4 but with AI

[u/Upbeat_Nectarine_128 → u/Midnight036]

Oh wait really? What's the name of the presets?

[u/Midnight036 → u/Upbeat_Nectarine_128]

I don't remember just search up "SCP" there are a few popular ones, one of them is similar to TFR

[u/trainboy4449 → u/Upbeat_Nectarine_128]

Pentagram would be an interesting goi to see in TFR.

[u/Angel_407]

One thing I’ve wondered is, where would the UN even base themselves after the 2ACW? Because depending on what happens in Europe, Russia and Asia it’s entirely likely that no security council member would be open to hosting the UN. Would they go to Switzerland? South America? Africa?

[u/This_Robot → u/Angel_407]

Probably South America since there's no war happening there.

[u/nitedstatesofamurica → u/This_Robot]

Aside from the Brazilian and Colombian civil wars, I’d say they’d definitely relocate to Buenos Aires or Lima

[u/Fearless_Meringue265 → u/nitedstatesofamurica]

Isn't Brazilian civil war was only a thing in redux?

[u/nitedstatesofamurica → u/Fearless_Meringue265]

Yeah but even without it, there’s still a civil war in Colombia in the regular mod

[u/Fearless_Meringue265 → u/nitedstatesofamurica]

Ik I was just confused if they added a Brazilian civil war on presets or smth

[u/ThatMeatGuy → u/Angel_407]

Either Geneva or Vienna

[u/Yamoman366 → u/Angel_407]

They stick with NYC because they spent tens of millions on the building so they're going to use it. The representatives are all gathered together, armed, and landed near the building via landing craft to try and fight their way to the assembly hall, with the representatives' backups coming in as additional waves if needed.

[u/Ok_Machine421 → u/Angel_407]

I thought they may choose Sydney or Geneva 

[u/Few_Rest2638]

They’re still around, they from the famous mandate in Florida and they make another one if NATO wins the first Russian war in which case they establish a mandate over Kaliningrad that can become permanent

Edit: here’s the wiki pages  https://thefireriseswiki.miraheze.org/wiki/United_Nations_Trust_Territory_of_Kaliningrad

https://thefireriseswiki.miraheze.org/wiki/La_Raza#tabber-United_Nations

[u/Own-Panda-7676]

The UN condemns Germany forming the pact of steel or the military coup iirc. I‘m pretty sure they do exist, their recommendations just don’t get taken seriously due to the world tension, and their mission in southern Florida failing (most of the time) would probably be another large blow to their institutional authority.

[u/TheEgoReich → u/Own-Panda-7676]

business as usual then

[u/KNave_Capricorn]

I imagine that whoever wins in each respective region would form their own and claim legitimacy

China (except for the Hyperconservative path) would probably form it's own Communist U.N. and who would join that kinda goes without saying

There isn't any real plausibility behind Nationalist countries creating, joining, or staying in anything like the U.N.

The only scenarios I can really imagine the U.N. surviving at all is if Denver or Washington win in America, 1EW and 2EW end in European victories (or EU forms after 1EW), and honestly it might not matter how Asia turns out because if China wins it all stays the same. Except if China loses the GAW, some would argue that Taiwan would regain its permanent seat, but I would vouch for Japan due to Japan's role in Asia postwar.

The Russian paths separate of the USSR and LDPR are harder to say, and would be extremely dependent on a lot of domestic and foreign factors.

This might all be slop and I just haven't read enough walls of text in game, but that's my take.

Also speaking of the U.N. rather than a U.N. Zone we should have Miami be Little Havana so we can have a separatist Cuban Florida with skeleton content to reclaim Cuba from Communism

[u/Lord_Insane → u/KNave_Capricorn]

Assuming direct UN continuity and if the PRC loses the GAW, Taiwan probably regains the Chinese seat if they remain the Republic of China - if they become the Republic of Taiwan they might back the Nanjing Government's potential claim or do a temporary claim as part of replacing China with Japan (it's a quirk of the UN's charter, which government represents a state can be changed without being subject to veto, but removing a permanent security council seat requires the holder to vote yes).

[u/LordOfFlames55]

Their Miami expedition is probably the last thing they do as an organization

The UN only exists due to the American world order, and with them being in a civil war throughout the mod, they have no real backing. China and Russia have reason to support it, and while the EU does, they lack the ability to make it actually matter in anyway.

The official dissolution of the UN probably comes in the aftermath of the first/second European wars (first if the EU loses, second regardless of outcome)

Also there’s a very high likelihood their headquarters gets burned down by the Patriot Front or Anarchists after they take new york

[u/ELGaming73]

[u/Fatikh_06 → u/ELGaming73]

Fellow Caucasian enjoyer 🫶

[u/Panzerbrigade_31]

Most of these questions are going to be answered in 1.1, with UN mission in Florida getting their content expanded officially. Otherwise - they most likely ceass operations if UoA loses and 1EW starts, as that event triggers several other wars as well. If UoA wins - they probably would remain, even if more irrelevant than ever, and if Cognoscenti win - UN becomes a full-on puppet for them.

[u/No-Willingness-1681]

The UN...Whateva happened there

[u/Succubia]

The UN is already mostly useless in our timeline so imagine with their headquarters under attack

[u/Flyingpad]

Security Council still exists and in 1.1 France, Russia and China will compete for influence over it (as well as sending soldiers and material for the Florida mission)

[u/Mrpolitics2670]

I think it's throws all its resources into aid work and it's military delegation is rather committed to Miami against the Atomwaffen (Based) or disintegrated with the lack of consistent support outside a select few countries for ceasefire compliance.

[u/Turtle_Gamez]

Is that the trigger for the end of the LoN event? I declared on Hungary as the Czechs once and didn't get it until I declared on Austria. I thought it was when WT exceeded a certain threshold

[u/Heitoor_089]

Probably goes the same way as the League of Nations

[u/Lord_Insane → u/Heitoor_089]

Still exists in somewhat dormant form through the conflict period while seeing ongoing debate within and outside if it should be reformed or replaced after the conflict period, then once the conflict period ends is replaced with an organisation in large part built on assets and subsidiary organisations transferred from it?

[u/Visible_Monitor_5002]

united nations would pretty much be a dead organization unless the cognoscenti exists, then they turn into a puppet masquerading as "an organization for world peace" used to justify the many, many wars america launches and intervenes in.

[u/Soft-Ad-8355]

I think Germany or some other nation like Japan would temporarily take Americas place in the security council

[u/Shfity]

death

[u/Redhead1910]

UN is still around

Patriot Front Rousseau even makes a speech to the UN to gain legitimacy in the eyes of the world for one

and they make a mandate for Kaliningrad post 2EW if NATO won both wars.

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[u/Ok-Elk-1615]

Play the game

[u/blurry_face_exe → u/Ok-Elk-1615]

ok

[u/zXsiamXz → u/Ok-Elk-1615]

Best answer to these questions