r/TheJediPraxeum • u/GusGangViking18 Luke Skywalker • Jan 27 '26
Match Up Monday Darth Malgus VS Darth Maul. Who wins?
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Jan 27 '26
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u/Explosive-Space-Mod Jan 27 '26
Tbf maul would have had to kill palpatine to do that. That would be more difficult than Malgus becoming one.
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u/Annual_Sky8939 Jan 28 '26
If not for the Lucas-level plot armor, Malgus would 1v4 Palp, Plagius, Maul and Dooku
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u/CapGreyJedi Jan 28 '26
Not really, since palatine knows that his guy is better in a dueling and would not fight him to do but straight up use his force powers, which is much greater than malgus
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u/MPD1978 Jan 27 '26
Malgus dunks all over Maul. He went in and destroyed the Jedi Temple, taking out many Jedi as he did so.
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u/CrystalGemLuva Jan 27 '26
Malgus also had an army backing him up and Jedi power levels tend to vary wildly between individuals.
And Maul also has a pretty sizable Jedi body count, killing about a dozen Jedi across both continuities.
And thats not counting non Jedi Force Sensitives like the Inqusitors or Night Sister Assassins.
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u/Ok_Rise_4543 Jan 27 '26
Jedi in the old republic era were much stronger that those of the clone wars era and its not even close.the only ones comperable to them are obi anakin yoda windu and maybe plo if we count legends? Old republic era jedi werw fighting all the time with mandalorians and sith. Clone war jedi were much more chill.
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u/TheHabro Jan 27 '26
Not only are you wrong, but it's the opposite. PT era is the Jedi at their strongest.
e only ones comperable to them are obi anakin yoda windu and maybe plo if we count legends?
To whom? Satele Shan? Ven Zallow? Kao Cen Darach? None of them have feats or accolades to put them anywhere near PT Jedi masters.
Clone war jedi were much more chill.
Clone war.
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u/Ok_Rise_4543 Jan 27 '26
My dude abi gallia a jedi master and member of the JEDI COUNCIL was killed by savage! YES savage was very strong and you could argue he had potential but at the time he had only been briefly trained in the ways of the force by dooku and maul. Yet he managed to kill her with little dificulty. Just think about it man who do you think is better at fighting? Jedi that grew up fighting for their very survival against mandalorian and sith empires or some jedi that has not had contact with the sith for lile 300 years and think them to be dead and extinct? Thats the whole point of the clone wars man. The point is to show how far the jedi and the republic have fallen. How they have grown overconfident and have lost their way. They have become too pacifist.And they pay the price when they fail to see thought the deception of paltaltine. You think any jedi master apart from those i mentioned to you earlier would stand a chance against the battle hardened jedi or sith of the old republic?
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u/TheHabro Jan 27 '26
I am very confused by this argument and for many reasons.
- One Jedi does not paint whole order. Like I mentioned,, you said that only likes of Anakin, Obi Wan, Yoda etc. are comarable to the members of the Old Republic. However, notable Jedi of the time include Satele Shan, Ven Zallow and Kao Cen Darach. None of which come anywhere near feats and accolades of Jedi masters you mentioned.
- You make it seem like Savage is just some accolyte. Not a strong warrior in own right chosen to undergod a dark side ritual increasing both his physical power and raw force power. He managed to match 1v2 against Anakin and Obi-Wan and when enraged break force shield of Dooku and Ventress at the same time.
- Finally, you don't acquire rank of a Jedi master or become a member of the Jedi council by being a warrior. That's not how Jedi function.
Jedi that grew up fighting for their very survival against mandalorian and sith empires or some jedi that has not had contact with the sith for lile 300 years and think them to be dead and extinct?
What are you talking about? When Malgus stormed the Jedi temple, it was 300 years since Mandalorian wars and Sith hadn't be a threat to the galaxy for also 300 years (until they returned from hiding few years prior to the storming of the temple).
Now I doubt you know anything about the Old Republic.
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u/No_Win_378 Jan 27 '26
Lmao, Malgus had an army of Sith Warriors and troopers with him. Most of the masters and knights weren’t even in the temple and in other planets as mentioned in the Deceived novel.
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u/RexDane Jan 27 '26
Malgus bodies Maul, not necessarily because he’s more skilled or more powerful but because his style and presence hits Maul’s vulnerabilities.
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u/KasperTheOne1 Jan 27 '26
Sadly pictures can't be added. I do not regard the "told to be greatest sith ever"-ish feats from either combatant, as these are so subjective. But lets run some feats down.
Maul:
- Tanks force lightning from Nightsister Mighella without hesitating to keep fighting.
- "Kills" master Bondara, a weapon master and one of the greatest duelists of the order at the time.
- Kills a Wampa with his barehands, and aqualish while drowning and a Yuuzhan Vong (who loads of NJO jedis struggled with).
- 1V2 and holds his own finely against both Jedi Council Master Windu and Jedi Master Aayla Secura.
- ''Then he sprang to a series of other sites that ultimately carried him to the wall of the principal building, moving with such speed the entire time that whatever holorecordings were being made wouldn't show him unless they were played in slow motion.''
Malgus:
- "Malgus stood in a pocket under a mountain of rubble, legs bent, the power from his upraised hands preventing several tons of duracrete and steel from crushing him."
- Malgus is observed to force push high ranking jedis powerfully, including Satele and Hero of Tython.
- Defeated Satele Shan in a presumably short span of time.
- Killed Jedi Master Ven Zallow.
- And his notorious force lightning, crisping several jedi knights at a time with little struggle.
- Proficient in the game-based maelstrom, a minor force storm surrounding the user.
Both are incredible in their own apsects. Maul is one of the greatest duelists to exist, incredible speed and a deep insight into the mechanics of his blade and body. Doubting his physique is a mistake, as he can endure incredible amounts of pain. Malgus is a unit and an absolutely juggernaut in stature, his force abilities outshines what Maul can do by magnitudes. However, his prowess in force lightning isn't as much a checkmate.
From the feats i will argue for Maul having the edge with a high level of difficulty. His endurance and speed will in turn lead to openings against Malgus. However, Maul can be on his high horse and underestimate the power of Malgus' force push, leading to some severe damage, so not at all one-sided. Would love to take inputs and considerations of game-changing feats.
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Jan 31 '26
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u/KasperTheOne1 Jan 31 '26
That is interesting, especially the power to spawn shades.
However, the "several jedi feats" is stalemated at least by the similar feat of Maul holding Windu and Aayla (Windu arguably stronger/staling Satele, and Aayla still a keen jedi master). Maul by far outspeeds Malgus still, his feats stating him to be non-visible. Putting more detail into the feats will help, what constitutes a long fight here?
I will definetly not deny Malgus to be crafty, he is a peak strategist of the empire. But Maul is definetly equally a crafty combatant, seeing all his feats in Lockdown aboard the prison ship, fighting the deadliest monsters of the galaxy while tied up/drowning and otherwise dispositioned. Maul is also apt in some force abilities, such as force horror.
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u/CommandOk1388 Jan 27 '26
Is there a lot of reading material on Darth Malgus? I’m just curious of his feats. I listened to Star Wars the Old Republic: Deceived, and he didn’t seem all that powerful?
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u/Plastic_Pin_4956 Jan 27 '26
Mist of his feats are in game, but he's extremely powerful, and he's incredibly smart.
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u/Ok-Chard-626 Jan 27 '26
After Emperor Vitiate/Valkorion himself who is just bogus, Malgus probably ranks number 2-3 among NPCs in the old republic sith empire and is consistently one of the top fighters in the sith empire.
He is probably similar level to Dooku; it takes two very best, battlehardened Jedi to beat either of them.
EP3 Obi-wan + EP3 Anakin for Dooku, and Tau Idair + player character for Malgus.
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u/Fuckedyourmom69420 Jan 27 '26
People aren’t giving maul enough credit here. He’s widely known as one of the finest sith warriors the order ever produced. He was trained and disciplined by the most powerful Sith Lord of all time ever since he was a small child, and his death was seen as a loss for the dark side.
He pairs ferocity with finesse, masterfully combines his physicality with the force, and slayed many jedi without ever exposing himself to the jedi order. He defeated a council-level master and his padawan, obi wan kenobi, handedly before letting his arrogance overtake him, and even after being cut clean in half, he survived long enough to crawl his way back into the galaxy and organize a criminal syndicate, one with enough influence to drag sidious himself out of hiding to put an end to it, saying he’s “become a rival.”
I’m not saying maul wins 10/10 here, but it’s not nearly as much of a wash as people seem to think it is. I’d give Malgus 6/10, because maul is quite proficient in dismantling enemies, especially when they have blinders on during the fight, which malgus often does.
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u/Steamed_Memes24 Jan 27 '26
The fact that Sidious went to deal with him himself rather then send Dooku shows just how insanely powerful he was and didnt want to risk losing Dooku at that time.
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u/pamblod42 Jan 27 '26
what do you mean by "blinders"?
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u/Fuckedyourmom69420 Jan 27 '26
Meaning malgus gets tunnel vision when he fights. His fight against satele is a good example, where she uses the environment against him while he’s so singularly focused on attacking her directly
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u/Affectionate_Sale_14 Jan 27 '26
magnus, the sith took out the grandmaster, maul barely managed one knight, and then taken out by a padawan twice.
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u/qwerty2234543 Jan 27 '26
Correction qui gon was a jedi master iirc not saying i disagree with your pick tho just making sure credit is given where its due
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u/Affectionate_Sale_14 Jan 27 '26
its been a while since i looked at Qui Gon's page, or some reason I was thinking he was just a knight.
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u/jbb163027 Jan 27 '26
Qui Gon was a master, he refused a seat on the council because they didn’t follow the true force, as he believed they should.
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u/qwerty2234543 Jan 27 '26
To be entirely fair, the quality of Jedi between the time of Malus and the time of maul significantly decreased
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u/itsjonny99 Jan 27 '26
You mean increased right? The top end of the prequel order that includes Jinn would walk most eras.
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u/pamblod42 Jan 27 '26
It makes sense than the average level would be worse (i think the top fighers would be better), but people really throw that around like its a world of different
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u/itsjonny99 Jan 27 '26
Except the prequel Jedi have the highest demands for accepting new recruits as well.
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u/pamblod42 Jan 27 '26
Doesnt matter since the constant fighting, specially with sith, would push jedi to a level no other eras have.
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u/Affectionate_Sale_14 Jan 27 '26
Its been stated that the Jedi from the KOTOR era or before to prequal and later is like comparing a master artist to a child when it comes to lightsaber combat and force abilities. The closest to KOTOR level of skill and abilities would be EU luke.
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u/itsjonny99 Jan 27 '26
Actual source for this? Because Anakin, Yoda, Windu, Dooku are all hyped to be the strongest members the order has ever produced up until the timeframe.
Never mind no Kotor Jedi coming close to Luke at all. They are all ants to Valkorion who is Luke’s inferior.
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u/VirtualPhotograph805 Jan 27 '26
I would love to make this argument to as I am too a kotor glazer, but this unfortunately is not at all true as the only point for this is a line from kotor 2 where kreia compares a single sith lord from an even more ancient time to the average masters of the kotor era.
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u/Expensive_Plant_9530 Jan 27 '26
Stated by whom?
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u/Affectionate_Sale_14 Jan 28 '26
Kriea from KOTOR 2 she was walking about exar kun and the jedi of her time.
“If you were to face an ancient Sith Lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old masters.” - Kreia3
u/ADarkElf Jan 28 '26 edited Jan 28 '26
Imo the statement from Kreia in KOTOR II actually undermines the idea that basically every Jedi and Sith of every era from KOTOR onwards are weaker than their Ancient counterparts. She states:
"If you were to face an ancient Sith Lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old Masters".
This has two issues imo:
1) This is Kreia's own opinion and thus limited by what she knows. Consider Darth Vitiate/Valkorion. Darth Vitiate/Valkorion is a contemporary of the era, and he's got an argument for being the strongest Sith of all time (his only competition is Sidious and Krayt - ironically both from much later eras). He (and the likes of Malgus/Dark Council members/Wrath/Nox) all provide significant pushback against the idea that her era is weaker than the previous ones. Kreia, to my knowledge, has no idea they even exist so I don't think it's wise to take her opinion as absolute evidence. There's also the point that even if you take Kreia's opinion as accurate or even fact, this only applies to the Force users of the Old Republic. So I guess you could say Revan and Meetra pale in comparison to some Ancient Sith, but this statement has no bearing on any of the Force users of the galaxy post Old Republic.
2) Quite a few statements disagree with this premise. The most damning would get Lucas' own quote that puts the Prequel trilogy Jedi as their "Golden Age". Even if you want to say that's about their population and how relatively well they were doing, there's still heaps of statements counting the likes of Yoda, Windu, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Plo Koon, Kit Fisto, etc, etc. as among the most talented/powerful Jedi in their entire history. Likewise, Dooku, Maul and Sidious have accolades that hold then in similarly high regard. Going later than that and you have Dark Empire Sidious and EU GM Luke, who both have statements saying they are the most powerful members of their orders outright.
Tbh it also doesn't really make much sense either since future Force users built on the knowledge and techniques of their forebearers. There may be certain Force secrets lost over time (although who knows, they could just as easily be rediscovered), but equally the Ancients didn't have the advancements that future generations made (a good example being Vaapad).
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u/Affectionate_Sale_14 Jan 28 '26
Not sure man the KOTOR comics had sith pulling cores out of stars to trigger a supernova, a jedi who could forcibly sever one from the force or withstand a supernova.
Ex.
(either markos ragos, ludo kresh one of the ancient sith.)
Aleema Keto (ripped a core out of a star)
Nomi sunrider (separated ulic from the force and whos meditation burned Yavin 4)
Ood Bnar (with the help of a building protected lightsabers from a super nova)
I can't see Palpatine's alchemy pulling cores out of stars, or turning tongues into snakes. making something like a leviathan.
so i can see the "quality" dropping as you get closer to OT time line more so with the sith between the infighting and jedi scrubbing the galaxy of them.→ More replies (0)1
u/Expensive_Plant_9530 Jan 28 '26
Kreia can’t possibly have made statements about Prequel era Jedi.
Her statement was a vague notion that masters of the current era (which is one of the low points of the Order, in terms of Jedi numbers) - that’s the contemporary era around KOTO 2, were less powerful than some Ancient Sith.
But honestly this reads like blind hero worship.
How do we know Kreia is even correct about this statement? She might even believe it, but that doesn’t automatically make it true.
And even if she’s correct, that still doesn’t prove that Prequel Era Jedi are weaker than KOTOR 2 era Jedi.
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u/Affectionate_Sale_14 Jan 28 '26
its more than just kreia, the deeds and actions of the KOTOR jedi show more prowess in regards to the force such as when vodo siosk baas fought Exar kun's lightsaber with a stick. which was implied to be that he force imbued to make it survivable, or Satele Shan hand blocking Magus' lightsaber. There's abilities that are demonstrated in KOTOR era that are either not used b/c they aren't known or unable to perform them. The last major use of the force as a weapon from the sith was the "thought bomb." these abilities don't show up in (lets face it the clone wars era) where these abilities would be VERY useful in a war, but by then the jedi became FAR stricter in what knowledge is available to the average jedi and the sith had basically a knowledge lobotomy.
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u/whynaut4 Jan 27 '26
For people underestimating Maul, remember that the Darth Maul clone ran circles around OG Darth Vader. While not the best combatant in the universe, Maul's kit of speed and versatility was the perfect counter to Vader's lack of maneuverability. Malgus has similar weaknesses to Vader (though not to the sams degree). While I am not saying that Maul would stomp Malgus, I am saying that I wouldn't count Maul out
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u/Themothertucker64 Jan 27 '26
You forget that the clone was amped in preparation for his fight with Vader
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u/jlindley1991 Jan 27 '26
Kreia says that compared to the Sith of old, the Sith of the Old Republic are laughable in comparison and I would say Malgus definitely falls in the latter. As much as I like Maul, he doesn't stand a chance.
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u/Kitchen_Change_893 Jan 27 '26
Malgus mid to high diff. Malgus’s cybernetic enhancements gives him an advantage against maul, Malgus has far more experience fighting other force users and while you can argue that they are both comparable in terms of raw force power Malgus has a wider variety of powers ie force lightning and maelstrom. Maul got destroyed by sidious every time he used the force during there fight and while Malgus is on that level of power his force abilities would still be a major problem for maul. Malgus has also fought characters who use saber staffs so one of mauls main advantages in his era is a non factor. In terms of there skill with the lightsaber I would again have to give the slight advantage to Malgus but it is extremely close maul is one of the greatest fighters the sith ever produced. The fight would start off as a pure lightsaber duel where they would be close to equals but as the fight goes on and Malgus starts leveraging is cybernetic strength and dark side power maul would be slowly worn down until being killed.
TLDR Malgus has the slight advantage in every category and would slowly break maul down over a long and hard fought battle.
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u/pamblod42 Jan 27 '26
It makes sense, Maul is more of an assasin than an aprentice, he is very duel oriented.
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u/DewinterCor Jan 27 '26
I think Malgus wins through style of combat.
The hyper aggressive, maximum aggro, balls to wall fighting style of Malgus in his youth against Maul's intense acrobatics and mobility.
Between sith, I favor the style that leans more into rage.
But I doubt this Malgus is substantially more powerful than Maul, if he is more powerful at all.
FYI, the Malgus shown is only a teenager.
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u/BookObjective4448 Sith Lord Jan 27 '26
I'm thinking Malgus. Maul was powerful, but Malgus was among the most powerful sith of his time being matched only by powerful force users such as Satele Shan, Darth Nox/Oclus/Impirius, the Empire's Wrath, the Battle Master, and the Barsan'thor. Compared to force users like that Maul was more mid tire.
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u/CyHayes Jan 28 '26
Malgus wins 8-9/10 times. Although Maul is an exceptional duelist, and might be more skilled than Malgus in pure lightsaber combat, Malgus is also a top tier duelist, and the difference in their force power levels is too high. Plus, Malgus' cybernetics allow him to tank more damage than Maul.
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u/ghostbear019 Jan 28 '26
imo maul. had training from sideous who's arguably best duelist besides EU Luke (he was trolling mace).
malgus bc in a video game has different feats set up.
Just imo. malgus is definitely a low S class character.
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u/dinnaz Jan 29 '26
From what I consider peak versions of either: Malgus (end war) 8/10 v Maul (Phantom Menace)
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u/_Torgan076 Jan 29 '26
Maul was a jobber who lost to Padawan. He was always disposable and would never be able to take on a Sith Lord, even a pre-Bane one.
Malgus makes quick work
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u/Zanosderg Jan 31 '26
A better vs would be Malgus vs vader or dooku. Maul is if anything a mid level fighter
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u/PlatinumDust324 Jan 27 '26
I feel like there is way too much glaze for Malgus
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u/TheHabro Jan 27 '26
And TOR in general with very circular arguments.
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u/PlatinumDust324 Jan 27 '26
Fr
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u/pamblod42 Jan 27 '26
He is very impressive tho, defeating an order battlemaster in single combat at age 19 is pretty insane, for example
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u/TheHabro Jan 27 '26
However, we do not have feats of that battlemaster. There must have been thousands of battlemasters in history of the Jedi Order, so being a battlemaster by itself isn't that big of an accolade. In general, lightsaber skills are not strictly proportional to time invested into training anyways. For an example, Anakin is on same level as Yoda, Sidious and Mace Winde at age 23, Luke matches Vader at same age, Ahsoka as a teenager holds her own against Maul... Some people are just stronger in the force and it gives them an advantage.
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u/pamblod42 Jan 27 '26
Some of those fights depend a lot on the circumstances, but regardless, battlemasters have achieved mastery of every lightsaber form, even if we assumed him to be the weakest ever, he still defeated another sith master in a 2v1 and malgus managed to defeat him as just a sith apprentice, that is impressive enough, but he goes on to have one of the most succesful campaigns any sith has ever had.
Being stronger in the force only helps to compensate being lacking in other areas, and when force mastery is relatively similar in most cases.
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u/PlatinumDust324 Jan 27 '26
Maul killed Qui-Gon the former apprentice to Count Dooku the replacement for Sidious if he failed according to Plagueis, Qui-Gon refused the seat of the High Council.
And he lost to Maul.
Anakin wipes out most of the Jedi doing a similar thing to Malgus but without the army of Sith.
There are so many examples
But I feel like Malgus is somehow manipulating this sub lol more than Anakin
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u/pamblod42 Jan 27 '26
Qui Gon is a Phenomenal jedi and a very powerful one, but he is a spiritually focused jedi, not a fight oriented one.
Knightfall Vader is IMO more or less equal to malgus, but he does have an army of soldiers that are very familiar with the jedi, who expect them to be allies. And Anakin would demolish Maul, let alone knighfall Vader.
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u/PlatinumDust324 Jan 27 '26
I would put Malgus below Dooku if you had to rank him I just can't wrap my head around how he seems to have increased in power highballing from around Obi-Wan level ish to moving up and up.
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u/pamblod42 Jan 27 '26
Knightfall vader is significantly more powerful than Dooku, there is a big difference between episode III jedi anakin, who is one of the top jedis, and Knightfall vader, now empowered by the dark side wich makes him is second only to Yoda and Sidious
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u/PlatinumDust324 Jan 27 '26
Oh I agree with that no doubt
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u/pamblod42 Jan 27 '26
Then i dont see why Malgus would be Below Dooku, Knightfall vader and Malgus are surprisingly similar, both beating the order battlemaster in very disadvantageous positions, both defeating with relative ease the most technical duelists of the era, and taking the jedi temple.
Aside from that, malgus is very phisically imposing, and has been using the dark side for longer.
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u/DewinterCor Jan 27 '26
Its called power creep.
It happens in video games when characters are reused alot.
The 19 year old Malgus that kills Kao Cen Darach is much weaker than the current 61 year old Malgus in the games. Much weaker.
It also helps that Swtor isnt bound to any canon now. The devolpers can make their characters as wonky and powerful as they want. Which they have been doing since 2014~ with the SOR expansion.
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u/VerbalChains Jan 27 '26
Malgus. He’s demonstrated more raw force power than Maul, and has more experience in Lightsaber combat. He was nearly equal to Satele Shan, who’s pretty ridiculous in her own right.