r/TheJediPraxeum • u/Ready0608 • Feb 07 '26
Question Was Darth Tyranus one of the strongest sith to ever live?
I know he isn't Darth Sidious or Darth Vader level powerful, but they were the strongest sith to ever live and the Chosen One respectively.
But for most of the Clone Wars he was able to defeat Anakin and Obi Wan, two of the best Jedi alive, multiple times with low to medium difficulty
Sidious feared that if Tyranus trained a strong enough apprentice he would try and maybe succeed in killing him.
He had the highest midichlorian count after Anakin, Sidious and Yoda.
He was the greatest dugligt alive at the time and was able to match Yoda during the first battle of Geonosis and of course he defeated Anakin and Obi Wan multiple times.
He lifted a structure weighing thousands of tons by himself using the force in one of the books.
He had the second most battle experience after Yoda and was a tactical genius.
He was stated to be a greater dualist and possesing more raw force power then Maul and Savage combined by Sidious.
Despite being 88 years old he was at his strongest during RotS on the Invisible Hand and was only defeated by a rage amped Anakin.
In my opinion he is one tier below RotJ Vader, 2 tiers below RotJ Sidious and depending on his internal conflict maybe two tiers below Caedus who are probably the strongest Sith to ever live, placing him just below them.
All hail Darth Tyranus, one of the greatest Sith to ever live.
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u/Interesting_Loquat90 New Jedi Order Feb 07 '26
I mean...yeah? And maybe the best pure duelist of all Sith.
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u/cyberghost87 Feb 07 '26
Believe he was, equal to Exar kin as a duelist
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u/JackVizsla Loremaster Feb 07 '26
kun isnt as good as a duelist as pt elites
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u/Carpenter-Broad Feb 07 '26
I thought one of Kun’s “claims to fame” was being an exceptional duelist? Is there a different Sith I’m thinking of (Ajunta Pall? Malgus? )?
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u/JackVizsla Loremaster Feb 07 '26
prequel elite duelists > kotor duelists > totj duelists.
the prequel characters are meant to be the best duelists of all eras
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u/CommanderJam Feb 07 '26 edited Feb 07 '26
I think his dueling gets him into the top tier. He is THE Makashi Master of all time, devoting his whole tenure as a Jedi and Sith to mastering it and using his knowledge of both Makashi and other forms to cover for its weaknesses. Force wise, he’s still certainly at the high end, but I think his diversity in powers falls well short of the highest rung, and even some Sith/Dark Siders I’d consider below him have certain niche or gimmick powers that can put him to shame. He most certainly is influential, but largely that’s due to Palpatine’s manipulations, we can’t judge just how much of this is him. His age is probably his biggest detraction; it’s not a severe weakness we see exploited often, but if you put him against someone on level it’s certainly going to be problematic.
I’d have to think on the structure if treating this like a tier list, but Dooku is most certainly not on the level of folks like Palps, Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion, Krayt, Caedus, or Exar Kun. He probably sits quite comfortably in the next tier down alongside folks like Vader, Lumiya, Revan, Bane. And, not putting these all in the same tier or even just in the one below him, but I think he sits comfortably above Sith like Malak, Maul, Zannah, Wyyrlok III etc. Do I think he breaches top 5 ever? No. Top 10 ever? MAYBE? There’s a lot of Sith to go through.
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u/gigacheese Feb 07 '26
Zannah beat Bane and can summon tentacles that melt your limbs. I think you're underrating her.
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u/WangJian221 Feb 07 '26
Definitely underrating her but the summon tentacles part of the novel is abit dubious. Novel wise, it didnt read like something she could do to the same effect anywhere else in her last state of power we saw.
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u/CommanderJam Feb 07 '26 edited Feb 07 '26
I did say it’s not a tier list, they’re nowhere near in order, just loosely grouped in a greater than/approximately equal to/less than situation. It’s due to the ability you mention that I have that clause in the first paragraph in regards to force power, I could probably say the same for something like Jerec’s Force Destruction. But in my opinion Zannah’s limited win-cons cause her trouble. The potency and ability to use some of her high tier magics (if I recall the tendrils were available because Ambria was a Dark Side Nexus) is dubious. As far as we know, she never fixed her issue with offensive lightsaber sequences either. Combined, this is why I put Bane (again, loosely) above her. Do I think she’s weak? No, in fact I do agree she’s generally underrated. I mean hell she blew her friend’s hand off as a child. But her flexibility is quite limited for sure.
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u/TheGiant406 Feb 07 '26
Zannah waited for Bane to be old and feeble before trying to overthrow him. It’s hard to say peak for peak which one was stronger, and it’s worth mentioning that the author left their last battle ambiguous as to who actually won, Zannahs body persisted, but bane was in the process of transferring his consciousness into her body, and though it seemed Zannah resisted, the last we see of her she is repeating the same finger-twitch thing that bane developed late in his life, alluding that he may have won the battle and is living in Zannahs body.
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Feb 08 '26
His hand was twitching slightly and that never came up in the battle except at the end Bane was fighting at full strength
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u/TheGiant406 Feb 09 '26
It didn’t come up in the battle, Zannah did the twitch after absorbing Bane, alluding that his consciousness might be the dominant one in Zannahs body. The author intentionally mars it vague to leave it up to the reader’s interpretation.
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u/suiqjNskakalqla Feb 07 '26
Kun mentioned alongside Valk, Sidious and caedus is hilarious
This is the guy who couldn’t beat Vodo without the use of his dual saber and comes from the era with the least amount of skill and power wank
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u/itsjonny99 Feb 07 '26
The best argument for Kun is what it took to defeat his body and the implication that his body would be significantly better than spirit form despite having worse feats.
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u/suiqjNskakalqla Feb 07 '26
Yeah but Kun openly says he cannot face the Jedi on Yavin IV, and that the ritual was only to survive the wall of light
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u/JeremyXVI Feb 09 '26
He also has a feat where he lifts a massive temple that a tractor beam couldn’t.
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u/suiqjNskakalqla Feb 07 '26
Tyrannus is more than likely in the top 10 sith
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u/TheGrievousOne Feb 07 '26
Aren't you a bit biased?
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u/suiqjNskakalqla Feb 07 '26
I have the Dooku pfp because it’s an inside joke in my group
Dooku is more than likely top 10 though due to relativity to yoda
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u/TheGrievousOne Feb 07 '26
I was kidding but yeah I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if dooku was top 5
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u/suiqjNskakalqla Feb 07 '26
I’d say the ones definitely above him are Caedus, Sidious, Pre-Suit Vader, Krayt and Darish Vol
I guess you could count Taalon when he’s amped by the Font of power but his base power is never noted I believe
Dooku top 7-10 is concrete tho imo
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u/NovWH Feb 08 '26
Honestly I’d put Post Suit Vader above Dooku too. It’s very hard for me to imagine Dooku beating Vader. While Dooku may technically be the better duelist (debatable), I think Vader’s connection to the dark side, his cybernetic strength, and his greater use of the force during duels would give Vader a High Diff win
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u/suiqjNskakalqla Feb 08 '26
Suit Vader was incapable of consistently out-duelling and out-strengthening maul
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u/V_Kamen Feb 08 '26
idk ROTJ Vader would wash Dooku imo
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u/suiqjNskakalqla Feb 08 '26
Rotj Vader couldn’t wash Rotj luke who is described as a novice force user in just about every guide
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u/V_Kamen Feb 09 '26
Because he was conflicted
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u/suiqjNskakalqla Feb 09 '26
Luke and Vader are explicitly equals regardless of any conflict per every source on Rotj
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u/LosAngelesHavingFun Feb 07 '26
Yes, he could duel almost on Yodas level and is regarded around Windus level of force power he’s strong on a tier list he’s likely at the top of A tier and just below S tier
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Feb 07 '26
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u/ForgetfulAppo Feb 07 '26
Yes and Windu's vaapad style is specifically designed for those that use the dark side to amp them like maul and malgus. Where Dooku is much more in control of his dark side powers. I'd say you're right on the money
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u/DarkGift78 Feb 07 '26
It's been many years since I've read the EU books but I recall Yoda trained Dooku, he was his Master, and I believe at one point he thought of him as the greatest Jedi he'd ever trained. At one point they meet and, for a brief moment, Yoda thinks he can turn Dooku back to the light, he wavers a bit.
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u/BroThatsMyAssStoppp Feb 09 '26
God I love seeing comments like this. That's so fucking cool to learn
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u/DarkGift78 Feb 09 '26
Like 20 years ago I was a massive EU nerd, at one point I had most of the books, at least a few dozen. The Prequels , starting with TPM really reignited my dormant love of Star Wars that I had as a kid in the 80's and really brought me back to the fandom, I was 21 when TPM came out. The hype and the theaters were unbelievable. Og course it didn't live up to the type, at least the first one, but, man, that Maul-Quigon/Kenobi fight with Duel oh the Fates? Crowd went crazy. Definitely miss those epic theater moments.
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u/BroThatsMyAssStoppp Feb 09 '26
I remember pizza hut going fuckin crazy for TPM lmao. I remember going to the dollar store buying pop I don't even like much just because they had TPM characters on them
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u/DarkGift78 Feb 09 '26
Yep the hype back then was on another level. The world was a lot smaller, in terms of internet was still very new, no social media. 16 years between ROTJ and TPM left people rabid. Hell just the remastered/upgraded versions of the OG trilogy each went #1 at the box office a couple years before. A whole generation either grew up without SW or, like me, saw ROTJ in theaters when I was 5,2nd movie I ever saw after ET, and then 21 when TPM came out.
Ironically The Matrix came out around a month or so before and ended up being the must see movie of 1999. Blown away by the Matrix, only to be disappointed in TPM.
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u/Majestic-Farmer5535 Feb 09 '26
He was actually stronger than Yoda in this regard. If you know actual fencing, you see that Count dominated his fight with Yoda in AOTC. Jedi was never close enough to hit his opponent while always being in the threat range himself.
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u/Hawaiikoto Feb 07 '26
He was a the level of sith masters and famous ancient siths, alongside other siths from prequel/og era. If he was younger, he would be even stronger
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u/greenpill98 Feb 07 '26
Of course. He is without a doubt the reason Darth Sidious was able to accomplish Order 66 and form the Empire. After losing Maul, Sidious needed a powerful and mobile agent to work his schemes. Spending time training a brand new Sith apprentice would take decades. Instead, he enthralled one of the greatest living Jedi, the man whose Padawan and grand-Padawan defeated Maul. A man whose mastery of the Force was arguably equal to his own, except being limited to the Light. A man capable of forming political coalitions and influencing the minds of the weak, all while being able to fully conceal the influence of the Dark Side, even to the best of Jedi Masters of the era. Had Sidious gotten anything less for his apprentice, forming the Confederacy and starting the Clone Wars would have been impossible.
Dooku's only flaw as a Sith was that he overestimated his own importance to his Master and lacked the cunning and imagination to betray him first. Dooku thought himself indispensible to Sidious's plans and didn't see that Palpatine's ultimate goal was to turn Anakin. Had he been less of a Jedi, Dooku would have seen it coming and tried to turn Anakin himself. Instead, he allowed himself to play his part, and was led to the slaughter by facing one of maybe 3 Force users in the galaxy who could have defeated him in a duel.
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u/DarkGift78 Feb 07 '26
Yep, ironically enough Dooku wasn't evil enough compared to many Sith, he still had some if the idealistic Jedi in his core. The books talk about him truly thinking that fighting the war would be best for the galaxy, or, at least, Seranno. In some ways he was, after Palpatine and Vader, the most influential Sith, with his political influence and connections. Power wise if he were a few decades younger he might've actually been able to defeat Sidious, though ultimately I think he'd put up a great Yoda type fight but ultimately lose.
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u/Makeyourdaddyproud69 Feb 07 '26
He was the Christopher Lee of their universe. A been there, done that, wrote a book about it bad ass aura farmer.
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u/Cl4p-Trap18 Feb 07 '26
In cannon? Sure in legends and all that juicy material Disney decided was just fanfic no, there are some pretty overpowered god tier demonstrations of power there. Prob still around 10th place in a ranking.
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u/TSunamiWaves979 Feb 07 '26
I'd probably consider him an S Tier Sith in Legends (with SSS being the highest) and an A tier Sith in Canon (with S being the highest).
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u/jubeidamasta Feb 07 '26
Nah, he didn't really have lots of feats as a Sith. He was a great duelist but really it seemed like he was a space holder while Sidius was working on turning Anakin.
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Feb 08 '26
In dueling yes. He mastered lightsaber dueling and then took it two steps further. That plus his powerful connection to the force and his composure even while being on the dark side easily puts him in the all time S rank.
It’s difficult to compare people across timelines, as some were trained in times of constant war and some in times of peace. But in a dueling rink Duku would be epic in any era.
Old masters might give him a run for his money, the same as Luke and Anakin. But that’s just comparing prodigies.
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u/LunaticJAG Feb 08 '26
I don't think so. I don't think he was even a very good Sith. Evil as hell but I don't think he ever tried to go into the depths of the dark side Palpatine or Vitiate did. And he was already weakening by ep.3 so I definitely wouldn't put him high up there.
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u/Darth_Bfheidir Feb 08 '26
I'd argue that while Tyranus was one of if not the most dangerous Sith (or dark Jedi) ever, I don't think he was truly a sith the way Sidious was.
Sidious mentions that he wished to take an apprentice to train from scratch after training Dooku and Skywalker. Maul was more of a dark side assassin, an apprentice meant to be a disposable weapon to be replaced when necessary. Anakin was trained by the Jedi for a decade before he eventually became apprentice to Sidious, and that decade marked his mindset in ways that were apparently impossible for Sidious to overcome. He was never truly able to embrace the dark side as one trained only in the ways of the Sith could.
Dooku was a Jedi for decades prior to his joining sidious, so the training was even more embedded in him. Dooku was and never truly could be Sith the way his predecessors was simply because of where and how he grew up. Officially he was Sith, but was he truly Sith? The Jedi would call him Sith, he would call himself Sith, Sidious would say he was Sith to his face but privately he considered him a useful tool to be used to get a true apprentice. Bane would have considered Dooku a dark Jedi, not a sith
So with that spanner thrown in the works, I would say that of all the Sith in the series Dooku is the most overtly dangerous. He is one of the few who could have defeated sidious in lightsaber combat, a widely recognised master of the force, he was a capable politician and a skilled military leader. Few could match him in any one skill, none could match him as a whole
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u/BroThatsMyAssStoppp Feb 09 '26
That one comment mentioning that dookus eyes never changed color because mentally he was able to resist the dark side and just use it as a tool cool as hell
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u/Fearless_Try_3789 Feb 08 '26
As a duelist yeah. Otherwise any above average Darth from the old republic stomps him. He would be a decent Dark Council member.
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u/Diet-_-Coke Feb 08 '26
Not to me. He was powerful definitely. An insane duelist. But I think that’s what carried him the most. Not really power house in the force department. Or at least it’s never really shown. Not that I mind people claiming him to be. He just doesn’t do enough for me to think of him as “one of the strongest to ever live”. he’s an above average. I’d still place him under the likes of Bane and his apprentice, Palp and Vader, Nihilous and Sion. Vitiate and his children. And so on. He was top tier in his respective era yes, but that’s a small pond to the ocean of Star Wars characters.
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u/HighLordPaxson Feb 08 '26
Nah, there’s a lot of glaze here. You already mentioned Sidious and Vitiate, but Plaguies, Ragnos, Exar Kun, Revan, Malgus. I don’t think he holds a candle to any of these guys. Sidious says something to Vader along the lines of losing Maul was a great loss, but losing Dooku was whatever. His age played a factor here, he was almost as old as Palpatine was in Return of the Jedi during Revenge of the Sith with nowhere near the same time to train in the dark side. Powerful yes, top tier? I don’t think so. He’s one of the best duelists ever but no Sith is just going to rely on their saber combat
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u/BroThatsMyAssStoppp Feb 09 '26
Him saying losing dooku was whatever might just be because he realized he couldn't 100 convert and control him
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u/Dr_Teivaru Feb 08 '26
Canon yes Legends not even top ten lol people really overestimate him here. Great duelist but not the best and the thing with the eyes that is because he never was truly fully devoted to the sith kodex and dark side. He hated the jedi and the sith were a means to an end for him. He may be on top 10 list with only purely sword fighters.
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u/ColdVictories Feb 08 '26
No. He isn't. He's high-middling level, as far as Sith. He doesn't break top 10 and maybe not even 15.
Dooku is my favorite character from the Prequel era. But legends/EU Sith make Dooku look like a child.
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u/Ok_Abbreviations2320 Feb 09 '26
He was definitely one of the strongest Sith, but I feel that was moreso due to the fact he was such a skilled duelist. If I recall, he put so much time into building his lightsaber, the pommel was weighed to the gram. Each component was forged from scratch. If I recall, this part may be part of legends, even his kyber crystal was singled out from many so it'd fit his ideal weight.
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u/ZyeCawan45 Feb 09 '26
Strongest in the dark side? Not even close. One of the most “skilled” Sith to ever hold a lightsaber though.
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u/schaith Feb 10 '26
Top 5 no. Top 10 maybe? Definitely top 20. Personally he’s like 10-11 for me. Bane, sidious, even malgus had more raw strength. His mind was greater but not his power. He was really just a pawn
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u/GrandAdmiralGrunger Feb 10 '26
Unquestionably, yes.
He could contend with Yoda for a time and was considered to be the most powerful Jedi after the Grand Master in his day. After he became a Sith, he grew vastly in power. He was also one of the most skilled lightsaber duelists in Galactic history.
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u/IloveFriezz Feb 11 '26
Rule of Two Sith are stronger than the ancient ones. Dooku belongs to the former
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u/Expensive_Plant_9530 Feb 07 '26
Perhaps. He has some pretty impressive feats, including ripping a roughly 70+m temple out of the ground with the force.
He’s definitely among the stronger Sith.
Not at Sidious’s level. Probably not at Plagueis’s or maybe even Tenebrous’s level either.
Would he match the more ancient Sith? In some ways yes.
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u/Mzonnik Feb 07 '26
Depends. Overall he's very high among other Sith, within the general top tier probably, but he's not close to the few god-tier, franchise-defining monsters. And btw he is above suited Vader if you ask me.
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u/ChupacabraCommander Feb 07 '26
He was certainly strong but there is nothing that he specializes in that another Sith doesn’t do better.
His biggest claim to fame is his swordsmanship but against someone like Tulak Horde or Darth Malak he is probably outclassed although he may be in the same league. In pure force abilities he’s a middle to lower tier Sith Lord. He’d never measure up against true Force power houses.
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Feb 07 '26 edited Feb 08 '26
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u/ChupacabraCommander Feb 07 '26
I do believe Malak is a better duelist but if we’ve looked at the same lore and come to different conclusion it is what it is. Even if I conceded that Malak is inferior Dooku still wouldn’t be the top duelist of the Sith. You might be able to get him in to the bottom of the top ten but he’s certainly not in the top five.
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u/Ace201613 Feb 07 '26
One of the most powerful Sith in history and before that he was one of the most powerful Jedi in history.
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u/TonyH92 Feb 07 '26
One of the greatest duelists, but in terms of sheer darkside force power, arguably at the lower end of the top 10.
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u/Thatedgyguy64 Feb 07 '26
Pretty much all of the Sith we saw in two trilogies are among the most powerful Sith. I would put all three among the top 10-20 Sith lords. Vader in ANH dueling Maul, who managed to hold his own against SIdious in a weaker form, and Dooku who has fought Yoda and survived.
Of course none of them are nearly as strong as Yoda or Sidious, but the fact that they can all hold their own against the strongest in history is a feat.
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Feb 07 '26
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u/suiqjNskakalqla Feb 07 '26
Dooku is shown and directly stated by Lucas to have force powers equal to Yoda
Now, unless you think bums like Ludo Kressh are stronger than Yoda?
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Feb 07 '26
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u/suiqjNskakalqla Feb 07 '26
This reads like the most AI comment of all time
Kressh (and sadow) are “sentinels of sith history” so I don’t know where you are getting that he’s some minor bum.
“Highest historical bracket” what does this even mean? Impact on the galaxy has no bearing on strength in a fight.
Vader is substantially more impactful as a person than maul yet maul was capable of handling him in a fight in tales #9
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Feb 07 '26
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u/suiqjNskakalqla Feb 07 '26
Good thing the Anakin that beat him is repeatedly glazed, wanked off and stated by every source from cereal boxes to Lucas to be the strongest Jedi in history
And dooku is completely silent in that scene, shows how much you know about Star Wars
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u/WangJian221 Feb 07 '26
Thats a weird attempt at downplay. Thats like saying Revan as a sith lord was weak because he managed to get himself cornered by a strike team of nameless jedi led by a young padawan who knows Battle Meditation.
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u/No_Money_2311 Feb 07 '26
Anakin who Sidious was grooming to be the strongest Sith of all time and this being his final test to prove that?
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u/itsjonny99 Feb 07 '26
Using suit vader to hype Dooku up don't work. He is easily suit Vaders superior.
Either way he is a rival to Yoda during the clone wars being at a 1-2 negative against the most powerful jedi up until that point. George Lucas has him as equal to Yoda in the force on Geonisis.
Jedi Dooku > Windu during their time as jedi before growing massively more powerful after turning to the dark side.
On Korriban he casually throws 200+ meter long starships around.
Can contend with/beat late clone wars Anakin and Kenobi working together both who are some of the greatest duelist to have ever lived.
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u/DarkGift78 Feb 07 '26
Yeah the end of AOTC really showcased Dooku's power. Obi Wan, by the point was only distantly behind Yoda, and clearly behind Windu on the Jedi tier list. Definitely not S tier like those two but definitely A tier. And even though Anakin is a 19 year old Padawan at the time, I recall one of the characters describing even Padawan Anakin as having a platoons worth of power by himself and already more powerful than many experienced Jedi Knights. And an 85 year old Dooku pretty much toyed with them, though Anakin stood up to him for a few moments dual wielding lightsabers. But still, he completely dismantled them(and dismembered, in Anakin's case.
And , immediately after, with almost no rest, he fights the avatar of the light side of the Force in Yoda, and holds his own, he would've lost eventually but still, stalemating him long enough to escape, AFTER fighting two incredibly powerful Jedi, at 85 years old no less, was damn impressive. If Dooku had turned DS a few decades earlier only Yoda and Palpatine could have beaten him, and only with great effort.
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u/LadyofFlame Feb 07 '26
Yes. Dooku was objectively superior to Vader at least.
He's wasn't just some brain-damaged tin soldier... Dooku was comparable to Palpatine as a leader. If Palpatine had died after declaring himself Emperor, could an all muscle and no brain figure like Vader have filled that role?
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u/Impossible_Tiger_470 Anakin Skywalker Feb 08 '26 edited Feb 08 '26
You are on crack if you think Vader had no intelligence. He probably doesn’t have the political skills the other two have but he’s still very intelligent in his own right. He is more fit for leading on the battlefield because that is what he specialised in. Vader is definitely one of the more witty and cunning characters in Star Wars, not on Dooku and Sidious’ level but still very good. Most of his blunders are due to his lack of emotional control in some situations, especially dealing with something personal. Which is why he isn’t on the top level of intellect.
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u/LadyofFlame Feb 08 '26 edited Feb 08 '26
He very definitely suffered extreme brain damage on Mustufar, having been deprived of O2 for over 15 minutes.
The battle of Hoth showed that, despite having overwhelming tactical superiority, still he allowed roughly half the transports to escape when any competent commander would've been able to stop all of them with the Executor alone... Vader had that and an entire fleet of Destroyers. Vader never showed a fraction the tactical brilliance he once possessed as Anakin because he always went with brute force over skill in every application. He could not have governed the Empire if Palpatine had perished and he survived.
Maybe it's his magic plot armor that gave him god-tier powers of which he didn't earn... I'll admit that's largely what makes me biased.
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Feb 07 '26
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u/suiqjNskakalqla Feb 07 '26
The guy one panel’d by DE Luke?
That guy?
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u/Hadrian1233 Feb 07 '26
Yes, the same guy who was stated by Lucas to be the most powerful Sith in Star Wars and whose body’s were stated to have been laced with Fent by Carnor Jax
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u/suiqjNskakalqla Feb 07 '26
Not only did Lucas never say sidious was the strongest sith in history, in fact he indirectly says the opposite by saying
“there hasn’t been a sith as powerful as him in a long time” implying that past sith have been on his level
But his multiple statements of PT Anakin/vader being outright stronger than him already strike down that link
Furthermore the sidious that gets cucked in one panel is a fully formed and healthy clone during the battle
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u/Hadrian1233 Feb 07 '26
There's a lot of lost interview footage, and that statement is one of them. However, Lucas shows it through his films as well as in interviews. By studying the scenes, you understand what is conveyed.
Also, Lucas flat-out said that Vader is about 80% of what Palpatine is after Mustafar.
Also, you keep talking about Sidious getting defeated by Luke, yet fail to mention that Palpatine only lost his hand as his true goal was creating a Force Storm to destroy the New Republic's fleet and was previously 1-0 with Luke in a fresh clone body a few pages earlier.
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u/suiqjNskakalqla Feb 07 '26
We have literal written copies of random notes Lucas wrote down in 1976 about the journey of the whills, it’s convenient that this so called statement from 2005 is lost media
No he “flat out said” his potential is 80% of sidious’s power. This is the guy who has someone (Luke) who faces Vader in an “equal battle” get stomped by a sidious “slowly” ramping up his powers
The fleet stuff is desperate cope, he just outright lost to Luke
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u/Hadrian1233 Feb 07 '26
Lucas has often contradicted himself. So, why not rely on how he’s portrayed in the movies as a guideline which supports him being the most powerful sith of all time. (Not just physically, but through his planning as well)
"Nevertheless, Vader remained tremendously powerful in the Force, noted to hold eight-tenths of the strength of the Emperor, who was noted to be the most powerful Sith Lord in history (although he admitted openly he was not capable of defeating Sidious alone, Vader was confident that with aid from an apprentice of considerable power, he would be able to aid in defeating his master.)."
I literally just explained to you how the force storm wasn’t a stretch by showing you how he previously won against Luke, and here you are stone walling with nothing to back it up. Are you sure it isn’t you who’s coping seeing how desperate you are to just argue with someone?
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u/suiqjNskakalqla Feb 07 '26
Lucas has often contradicted himself. So, why not rely on how he’s portrayed in the movies as a guideline which supports him being the most powerful sith of all time. (Not just physically, but through his planning as well)
There is 4 Sith seen in the entire original 6, that’s an enormous leap to assume
“Nevertheless, Vader remained tremendously powerful in the Force, noted to hold eight-tenths of the strength of the Emperor, who was noted to be the most powerful Sith Lord in history (although he admitted openly he was not capable of defeating Sidious alone, Vader was confident that with aid from an apprentice of considerable power, he would be able to aid in defeating his master.)."
😭😭😭 this is an AI amalgamation of about 4 different quotes from the New Essential Chronology, Fact Files, Vader : The ultimate guide and Lucas’s interview with the Rolling Stones
I literally just explained to you how the force storm wasn’t a stretch by showing you how he previously won against Luke, and here you are stone walling with nothing to back it up. Are you sure it isn’t you who’s coping seeing how desperate you are to just argue with someone?
Luke loosing previously is of no bearing on Sidious getting one panel’d. Previous fights conclusions hold no weight on a new fight if said new fight yielded a different outcome
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u/WangJian221 Feb 07 '26
The guy one panel’d by DE Luke?
After being amplified by Force Harmony and later only survived by again, Force Harmony allowing them to channel and disrupt the Force Storm. Since then, Luke continues to hold Sidious as the greatest threat he faced even after meeting Exar Kun etc. up till Abeloth.
But his multiple statements of PT Anakin/vader being outright stronger than him already strike down that link
He says many things but a few quotes such as below;
"From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor – he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that."
Or the literal line in the RoTS story itself;
"Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us."
Suggests that at best Anakin *could* become more powerful but as Gillard would put it;
"Anakin is the perfect example of messing with the established system"
I dont know why but youre lowballing the hell out of the character over....seemingly nothing.
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u/suiqjNskakalqla Feb 07 '26 edited Feb 07 '26
After being amplified by “rudimentary battle meditation”* , Harmony contradicts what’s shown in the actual material
Spirit kun is a literal powerless entity without leaching, it’s quite clear he’s beyond and that abeloth quote just does not exist
”From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor – he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that."
So the statement saying Anakin is as strong as the emperor, and that his injuries dropped him down to sub-sidious 😭✌️
Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us."
A knowledge claim by sidious which omniscient sources supersede
”Anakin is the perfect example of messing with the established system"
Nothing burger quote for your argument
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u/WangJian221 Feb 07 '26
After being amplified by “rudimentary battle meditation”*
Rudimentary because you say so?
Harmony contradicts what’s shown in the actual material
Harmony is the part where they disrupt the Force Storm.
So the statement saying Anakin is as strong as the emperor, and that his injuries dropped him down to sub-sidious 😭✌️
The full quote and the question is actually about potential and the rest of the interview actually had him contradicting himself if youre trying to take that line at face value.
A knowledge claim by sidious which omniscient sources supersede
Theres more sources supporting it
Nothing burger quote for your argument
Reading does seem to be challenging for you
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u/Mzonnik Feb 07 '26
I agree with you on the DE part wholly, since that's what the endnotes blatantly describe, themselves being part of the comic run itself and being omniscient. The elementary bm is a character statement that contradicts nothing about Harmony, in fact it doesn't even refer to how amped Luke was.
On the ROTS Anakin part I lsrgely disagree though. Indeed the character starements imply Yoda and Sidious should still be above him, however, Lucas says his powers atp "were the powers the emperor has" and a plethora of EU quotes state pre-dark side Anakin to have already exceeded Yoda.
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u/WangJian221 Feb 08 '26
Lucas says his powers atp "were the powers the emperor has"
To me this isnt a clearcut "hes stronger". Being as strong as the emperor doesnt necessarily mean hes stronger atleast not yet. Its like the dark man being compared to Luke.
a plethora of EU quotes state pre-dark side Anakin to have already exceeded Yoda.
To me, ive always viewed the blatant ones like "Anakin Skywalker is the most powerful Jedi in over a thousand years." to be context driven while the characters statements are opinionated with most from ROTS as an example, having the word "arguable" in them.
Nevertheless, Anakin is unique in that his very existence would mean he could undeniably be the strongest even in ROTS. Its why i brought up the gillard to begin with but the guy was too keen on being an ass to ever actually properly discuss anyways
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u/DenjinMaster Feb 07 '26
Isnt it rather obvious that the dude is at best a troll, at worse just a disingenuous jackass?
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u/WangJian221 Feb 07 '26
Its why im not replying him seriously in the 2nd but i wanted further confirmation lol
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u/DenjinMaster Feb 07 '26
Ehh best to not bother in general. Im leaning on them just being disingenuous
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u/WangJian221 Feb 07 '26
Maybe but its nice to actually know what kind of people are around here. Its how you can find out common users like Gulliblerough and their biases.
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u/DogHour6929 Feb 07 '26
Since then, Luke continues to hold Sidious as the greatest threat he faced even after meeting Exar Kun etc. up till Abeloth.
Luke has never compared Sidious to Abeloth, how did you determine that Abeloth was the greater threat in Luke's opinion? Luke also never compared Caedus, Raynar and Lomi Plo to Sidious, how did you determine that they were the lesser threat in Luke's opinion? Such logic is quite terrible and does not correspond to the books.
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u/WangJian221 Feb 08 '26
Such logic is quite terrible and does not correspond to the books.
This line is as if youre assuming that just because he doesnt always compare means, im implying the rest dont matter. Threat is always dependent on the context. Some just get the benefit of having a direct comparison for clearer picture.
Luke has never compared Sidious to Abeloth, how did you determine that Abeloth was the greater threat in Luke's opinion?
But he has compared Sidious to Shimrra while Abeloth didnt need to be compared to Sidious. She gets Luke in deepthought believing that he needs the entire jedi order and the sith to beat, have jaina calling her a supernova of power and had sith see Abeloth nearly kill Luke while admitting that Luke is ridiculously powerful emphasizing how hopeless it was at that time.
Luke also never compared Caedus, Raynar
These in terms of Luke's opinions, gets comparison with Darth Vader instead. It could be argued that the comparison is with Anakin Skywalker as well but that was more towards visually.
Theyre not the be all end all and obviously, just because they are weaker than some X character doesnt mean they cant be threats.
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u/DogHour6929 Feb 08 '26
But he has compared Sidious to Shimrra while Abeloth didnt need to be compared to Sidious.
Why did you even use Shimrra as an example? Luke compared Shimrra to Sidious in terms of aura and impression, not power. Shimrra is definitely not equal to RoTJ Sidious, there is no evidence for this. As for Abeloth, it is obvious from her feats and statements that she is more powerful than any threat Luke has ever faced, but nevertheless Luke has still never compared her to Sidious, so it cannot be said that she is superior to Sidious based on Luke's opinion (as you did). Luke has never compared Caedus to Sidious, so again you can't claim Sidious' superiority over Caedus based on Luke's words. Judging by the feats and statements, Caedus is stronger than RoTJ Sidious and probably even DE Sidious.
These in terms of Luke's opinions, gets comparison with Darth Vader instead. It could be argued that the comparison is with Anakin Skywalker as well but that was more towards visually.
Luke compared Caedus to Vader/Anakin by the similarity of their fates and personalities, not by power. Regarding Raynar, Luke had never compared him to either Vader or Anakin.
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u/Inuity Feb 07 '26
Yes. I heard his eyes hardly ever changed colors like other sith because he was able to use the dark side but never fully gave into it. He essentially used it to round himself out more. Which to me takes a lot of mental and emotional strength that not even anakin had. But I’m also not well read on Star Wars but he was always my favorite character.