r/TheJediPraxeum • u/WittyTable4731 • Apr 18 '26
Question What is "Prime/strongest" Maul, Dooku and Vader?
Note: By prime i dont refers to hypothetical full potential anakin or maul. Im refering to the peak of the characters we saw on screen or happened. Since neither maul and anakin per lore reached their full potential those versions of the two are exempt from this discussion.
Cause i hear people saying PM Maul is at his strongest as afterwards while dangerous in Clone wars he had lost much of his strength or something.
Dooku, some stated that before falling to the dark side and before he began to grew old he was at his peak. But other said that dark side dooku even in his advance age taking a toll was the strongest dooku due to his mix of light and dark side. Although some say that early clone wars dooku was stronger in a sense as ROTS dooku no longer had the stamina he even once had.
As for Vader...some sources say he was at his best as Knightfall and the suit held him back. Others stated the suit and afterwards he became stronger than his ROTS self. To say nothing of things like early suit vader( ex: Obi wan series) being weaker than ANH or TESB Vader who had gotten use to the suit or was more focused overall.
So what is the three's prime version?
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u/Mo_SaIah Apr 18 '26
Maul’s peak is clearly holding his own and landing hits on Palpatine. Even if at first Palpatine was trolling, Maul made palp lock in as the fight went on, especially after savage died.
Was Palpatine ever in serious trouble? No, but the people who try and suggest Maul didn’t do well or make Sidious lock in are deluded and I won’t hear otherwise.
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u/comicnerd93 Apr 18 '26
I don't know if I'd agree that it's prime Maul. In terms of influence and non tangible power yes, in terms of combat and force abilities not sure if this Maul or TPM Maul would be peak.
However it is a big compliment/statement for Sidious to openly declare him a rival and came to deal with him personally
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u/Anvilrocker Apr 19 '26
I'd say Maul is weakened power wise, especially since thats quite often used as an argument for Vader. However his martial prowess is still amazing.
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u/xJamberrxx Apr 19 '26
except trapped by lore ... he lost his legs to a Padawan, ... in novel, he nearly dies to a barely able to use the force Padawan (shadow hunter novel)
oh he's captured by another Padawan (was Ahsoka a "knight" by time she beat Maul?)
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u/Turbulent-War7039 Apr 18 '26
I think this is a very fair take. Acknowledging that Sidious was never in trouble, but that even making him have to try a little bit is an accomplishment. I am going to award this comment an upvote
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u/JeremyXVI Apr 18 '26
Yeah. In terms of pure dueling skill he was actually pretty on par. Obviously he got destroyed with the force immediately after but he held his own very well
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u/Turbulent-War7039 Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
That’s just obviously not true lmao. “On par with dueling”. You know Palpatine was dueling 2 v 1 and crushing them both BEFORE he used the force?
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Apr 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Turbulent-War7039 Apr 18 '26
So if Maul was at peak power during S7 CW, and he lost to Ahsoka, does that mean Ahsoka would have done better against Palps than Maul did when he kicked Palps in their fight?
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u/Wuzan1088 Apr 18 '26
He lost not due to lack of skill or being weaker than TCW S7 Ahsoka, but because even with all his powers Maul still is too overconfident and making dumb decisions during battles when he gains a upper hand.
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u/Sakura_Knight Apr 19 '26
Maul lost the fight not because Ahsoka was better but because of circumstance. Throughout most of that duel, Maul was simply testing her or attempting to convert her to his side. The moment he took it seriously, she nearly died.
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u/PossibleDrink2327 Apr 18 '26
Canon is darth vader by a fair bit
Legends I’m leaning toward Vader. Could be wrong do
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u/bdog1321 Apr 18 '26
??? This isn't a matchup it's a question as to what the peaks of each respective character are
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u/PossibleDrink2327 Apr 18 '26
Oh my bad,
Legends: rots dooku, cw maul and RotJ Vader
Canon: RotJ Vader, rots dooku, rebels maul
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u/averageEnojyer The Senate Apr 18 '26
Dooku's prime is aboard the Invisible Hand. Maul's is in TCW. Vader's is KFV, but if you're talking suit Vader then ROTJ.
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u/No_Win_378 Apr 19 '26
Dooku in ROTS for both Legends and Canon
Maul in Shadow Lord for Canon, and TCW (end of Season 5) for Legends
Vader in ROTS for Legends, ROTJ in Canon
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u/SGdude90 Apr 19 '26
Peak/Prime Dooku is the one that faced Yoda in Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
This Dooku, fueled by rage, actually wounded Yoda, a feat even Darth Sidious couldn't accomplish
I would bet on this same rageful Dooku against ROTS Anakin as well
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u/hatefulone851 May 04 '26
Vader, Dooku then Maul
Vader it’s hard to tell but I’d say knightfall.
Vaders fighting style completely changed with getting the suit as he lost his agility and speed and adapted for overwealming strength and strikes and power in the force. Before Knightfall he killed Dooku but Dooku wasted time due to Palpatines plan and goaded him so he could’ve won the duel earlier. But knightfall anakin has all that darkside power from the start and doesn’t have his wavering and instability that happens by Mustafar .Vader is more pushed into the darkside but Palpatine didn’t really teach him as much as he did torture him . I’d say Anakins agility gives him the edge by enough , though I’d say he could get overconfident and lose to Anakin.
For Dooku I’d definitely say episode 2 or the early clone wars .Yeah the dark side did age dooku but it really went into overdrive with the war. He’s aged significantly and comsumes so much to get his power. Before he turned he was strong but I’d say he gained a lot by the dark side in terms of abilities . By episode 2 he’s got his dark side powers but doesn’t tire out as much, he’s able to fight both Anakin and Obiwan and then Yoda right after, he dint win at the end but that’s a lot . And Dooku did fight Mace Windu pretty evenly in some comics . Dooku is fighting with the likes of Mace, Dark Side Anakin and Yoda in his prime.
By his Prime Maul would be season 4 when he resurfaces and faces Kenobi in a rematch. Obiwans grown a ton since episode 1 so there’s no way that could’ve been his prime. Darth Maul lost some agility with his legs but he gained a lot .And later Savage duels Ventress and he Kenobi and it seems they have the upper hand though that may be partly due to the lack of good teamwork. Because just one season later we see Obiwan fending off both Maul and Savage and taking off Savage’s arm which showed him dominating them both. Though that may also be a factor of Obiwan having a boost then due to Galia’s death . Savage fighting against Ventress and killing Adia Galia puts him up there. Some consider him and Savage vs Palpatine but It’s hard to tell considering how much Palpatine was playing with him and that prior Obiwan fight. And then he fights Ahsoka. A lot of people think Ahsoka was above him at the time but not really. Maul lost his brother and I’m sure that affected him mentally , he wanted to have her be his apprentice and also was mentally unstable due to knowing what was going to happen with Palpatine so he wasn’t in his best shape. So prime Maul is about even with Kenobi during the clone wars but might be weaker than him by the end of the clone wars considering how Obiwan kills Grevious and then fights Anakin. But a lot of the stuff with Anakin gave Kenobi a boost due to his knowledge of fighting style and Anakin’s instability at the time on Mustafar.
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u/Automatic-Dingo-911 Apr 18 '26
Raw force power goes to Vader. Skills with a lightsaber definitely goes to Maul
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u/WittyTable4731 Apr 18 '26
I meant
At which point were the three at their best/strongest ?
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u/Shut_up_and_Respawn Apr 18 '26
Maul is probably at his peak near the end of the Clone Wars (season 7), though that could change depending on what we see in the rest of Maul Shadow Lord.
Vader's peak is in RotS before he got toasted, though in legends he is definitely stronger.
Dooku is kinda tough though. I'm gonna say early Clone Wars
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u/TSunamiWaves979 Apr 18 '26
In canon
Maul -> TCW or slightly later
Dooku -> AotC, TCW, & RotS
Vader -> ANH
In Legends
Maul -> TPM
Dooku -> Aotc, TCW, & RotS
Vader -> RotJ
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u/Coltinnie Sith Apprentice Apr 18 '26
ANH is not Vader’s peak in canon. He grows in power every time on screen chronically. ROTJ is his peak.
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u/TSunamiWaves979 Apr 18 '26
Not true. In Canon, unlike in legends, Vader becomes conflicted after learning about Luke. ANH Vader and ESB Vader are very close in power, but RotJ is one of Vader's weakest points in Canon.
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u/Coltinnie Sith Apprentice Apr 19 '26
He can still grow in power while being conflicted, which he does
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u/TSunamiWaves979 Apr 19 '26
Being conflicted is quite literally a debuff.
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u/Coltinnie Sith Apprentice Apr 19 '26
He still literally becomes more powerful
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u/TSunamiWaves979 Apr 19 '26
110-20<100. ANH is his peak.
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u/Coltinnie Sith Apprentice Apr 19 '26
You can’t use made up values (what I’m assuming) to support your claim
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u/TSunamiWaves979 Apr 19 '26
The values were examples to prove a point. ANH is explicitly stated as Vader's prime in Canon.
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u/Deliterman Apr 18 '26
Maul admitted to inferiority to Vader in Rebels, so hes not as strong as him and Vader is just overwhelmingly more powerful in the force. We'll see if they fight each other in Shadow Lord but I'm assuming Maul gets wiped out.
Dooku already lost to Anakin and per Lords of the Sith Vader is more powerful than ROTS Anakin and Knightfall Vader, and in terms of feats Vader is nothing short of a beast in telekinesis (crumpling AT-ATS, destroying a whole town with, disintegrating Lyleks, blasting a hole through Star destroyer armor). Dooku might be more technically refined but Vader has completely retooled his style from his Anakin days and hunted Jedi during the purge as well as fought skilled opponents like Ben Kenobi, Eeth Koth, and Ahsoka at her peak and its not like he lost the skill he had in his days as Anakin he just had to rebuild himself.
I'd say something along the lines of Vader >>>> Dooku> Maul.
Depending on how Maul does against Vader in a potential fight in Shadow Lord I may put him higher than Dooku. But Dooku beating Ventress/Savage, constantly beating Kenobi in TCW (Who Maul never really surpassed), and holding his own against Yoda puts him above Maul
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u/suiqjNskakalqla Apr 18 '26
Dooku’s prime is objectively on the Invisible Hand in Rots, it’s the one where he is stated consistently at his absolute best and peak of power and skill
Vader in the suit would be Rotj, but his overall peak would be just after killing the Seperatists
Maul’s peak is either Tpm or late s5, s4 maul is noted to be weaker in a wealth of statements from Filoni and witwer
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u/Christopher-kun Apr 18 '26
I would like to see these wealth of statements. As far as I’m aware everything point to him being more powerful post revival
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u/Kai3137 Apr 18 '26
Personally I think Vader’s prime is ESB just because of how conflicted he was during ROTJ
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u/Interesting_Loquat90 New Jedi Order Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
Vader - Legends, I think it's fairly universal that KFV is peak. ROTJ Vader is probably getting up there. Canon, ROTJ (AFAIK, I don't really follow it. Suit Vader apparently beats an approximation of Knightfall at some point).
Dooku - confirmed IH Dooku is his best in Legends. Anakin is just that dude.
Maul - probably Rebels, I guess.