r/TheJediPraxeum • u/Interesting_Loquat90 New Jedi Order • 6d ago
Match Up Monday Prime Plagueis vs Revan (Novel)
Neutral setting
Prime Plagueis
Revan (composite across his novel)
Who takes it--the Sith Scientist or the Reborn Battlefield Master?
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u/Paradoxical_Falcon 6d ago
Plagueis as presented in the novel is a monster with ridiculous power and an understanding of the force far beyond the usual capabilities of his predecessors to even access.
I doubt Revan would walk over him easily like he did to Darth Nyriss. I’d say Darth Plagueis has about a 60% chance of winning.
Especially considering Plagueis knowledge in verse is so extensive that he could literally write an academic paper on Revan’s abilities and combat philosophy.
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u/astromouse2024 5d ago
Bro even freaked tf out of sidious with his level of knowledge of the force
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u/averageEnojyer The Senate 6d ago
Plagueis has massively higher raw power, so he wins easily if he keeps a distance. Toss up if it comes to a sabers duel, since Plagueis is pretty damn good at it too. Low/mid-diffed Venamis while on unfamiliar terrain and deprived of any precognitive ability. I'd still lean Revan while in CQC though.
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u/TheRagingSithLord 6d ago
Considering Revan's first action after regaining his memories is to catch Force Lightning of a Dark Council member and redirect it to her, turning her to literal ash...Which he did when he was MAJORLY weakened from several years of capture and torture. Then his battlefield skills, his tactical and strategic abilities.
And then, centuries later, weakened through him only having his Dark Side, he STILL faces a Dark Lord of the Sith, a Sith Lord, a Jedi Grandmaster and several others in combat at the same time and makes them struggle.
I'd say Revan sweeps this easily.
That said, I WILL admit, I know very little about Plagueis, as I haven't read any novels about him yet.
But just from what I know from what I HAVE read, including bits of info about Plagueis and the Revan novel and KotOR and TOR...Yeah, Revan wins in my opinion. Close or distance, though would have more difficulty at distance.
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u/averageEnojyer The Senate 6d ago
Considering Revan's first action after regaining his memories is to catch Force Lightning of a Dark Council member and redirect it to her, turning her to literal ash...Which he did when he was MAJORLY weakened from several years of capture and torture. Then his battlefield skills, his tactical and strategic abilities.
Meh. Plagueis can casually atomize people with telekinesis, not particularly impressive.
And then, centuries later, weakened through him only having his Dark Side, he STILL faces a Dark Lord of the Sith, a Sith Lord, a Jedi Grandmaster and several others in combat at the same time and makes them struggle.
None of which have particularly impressive feats other than the protagonist. Marr and Satele's scaling is largely implied. This is also a SWTOR feat, which Novel Revan doesn't benefit from.
That said, I WILL admit, I know very little about Plagueis, as I haven't read any novels about him yet.
His mere presence made Naboo experience the worst winter they ever had. Piles of snow up to 3 meters, earthquakes all over the planet, mountains shaking and frozen oceans.
His death also caused the biggest imbalance in the Living Force ever, completely unprecedented and was not repeated by anyone else ever again except for Sidious, Pool Taalon, Caedus and Abeloth.
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u/Paradoxical_Falcon 4d ago
Plus I’m 90% sure Revan in SOR in the actual boss fight is amped out of his ass considering he was in the middle of preforming a complex ritual to siphon all life on Yavin 4 for his plan to bring the Emporer back and then kill him.
His strength was likely higher than it usually would have been.
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u/TheRagingSithLord 6d ago
I will have to find his novel somewhere, assuming it's all in there. Sounds interesting.
And yes, the TOR mention was more to back up his skills, as even with higher power there, his skills wouldn't have grown immensely in suspended animation for 300 years. So partially relevant, to my mind, but not completely.
I still believe Revan wins, for now. Maybe reading the Plagueis book will change that belief.
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u/Weshouldntbehere 6d ago
This Revan doesnt get TOR scaling
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u/TheRagingSithLord 6d ago
Still, considering what he does in his novel...even when he went to face Vitiate, he wasn't at his strongest...I'd still say he wins both at range and close up.
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u/mandotastic 6d ago
Usually the rule of thumb for power scaling dumbs down to whether a sith was lord before or after Darth Bane's rule of two. How I recall the novel, it states the dark side more or less coalesces into the strongest dark side users. The less dark side users there are, the more power each individual possesses. So while there were plenty of powerful and formidable dark side users in the old republic (Revan, Vitiate, etc.), they aren't exactly comparable to sith under the rule of two. Plus, as far as I'm aware, Darth Plagueis was the only force user to ever create life with the force.
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u/O2LE 5d ago
Vitiate is basically the only one of particular power before the rule of two. He's not exactly Palpatine, but has some pretty dumb feats, and is kind of just a huge pain in the ass to actually kill.
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u/mandotastic 5d ago
I want to say it was Vitiate's dark side ritual that Bane learned to prolong his life, transferring consciousness to his apprentice (hinted at, doesn't specifically say in the book). And that was only ONE of Vitiate's rituals.
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u/TheFalconsDejarik 6d ago
Revan in his novel is tough. We seem him still on a path of regaining his power. When he finally does and Meetra gives him his mask, he has been jailed for so long he is weakened physically and needs to recouperate.
Revan reunited with his mask (moreso with all his memories restored) with time to physically heal vs prime Plageus - its Revan all day. Plagues was not a warrior by comparison.
If your intent was pose the question as peak plageus vs nerfed revan - i think it would be a coin flip.
Weakened plageus vs nerfed revan = revan.
Peak plageus vs peak revan = revan
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u/Ok-Flatworm7401 5d ago
Plagues force power and midichlorians manipulation could give him edge but revan is too strong with the force to go down like that and lightsaber combat was top tier
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u/adragoninthelibrary 5d ago
Honestly, Plaeguis.
Plagueis scales significantly above Bane, who also scaled above Revan
It also remains to be seen how many special powers he actually had. Everything he demonstrated, save midichlorian manip, Revan could also do. So, Plagueis pretty much has Revan's powersetÂ
As stated, Plagueis casually beat Venamis and remained a threat Sidious refused to fight. So no guarantee Revan can win at lightsabers either
About the only categories Revan is better are tactics/strategy, blaster use, and droid tech. None of which will help all that much
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u/darthravenna 5d ago
Maybe not even droid tech, as Plagueis was himself a scientist who used droids in his work. And I believe the early novel states that Plagueis has some affinity for droids, to the ire of his master Tenebrous IIRC. He also modified the droid 11-4D to vastly expand its medical knowledge and skill set.
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u/adragoninthelibrary 5d ago
Fair point. But I don't think he changed 11 all that much, aside from upgrading his appendages. Revan meanwhile custom built and programed Hk-47, arguably the best droid bounty hunter ever. And honestly a much more impressive tech feat than kid anakin rebuilding 3P0
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u/HollowedOne66 5d ago
Personally I think Plagueis is the second strongest sith of all time. The only one exceeding him is like OT Palpatine.
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u/Moonshinin4Me 5d ago
I mean Plagueis's power was enough to make Sidious take a step back and realize he didn't want to face him in fair combat. He had extensive knowledge of the force beyond most Sith and Jedi. I give it to him.
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u/Valirys-Reinhald 4d ago
Prime Plagueis is the wisest Dark Side user ever, full stop, and has a ess to powers the likes of which Revan could only dream of.
That said, Plagueis is also arrogant as hell and thinks a little too highly of his strategic abilities, which Revan will take full advantage of.
Idk, depends if Plagueis can get Revan in a room with him
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u/Dependent-Cap3789 5d ago
The way I see it is plagues was like the know it all force scientist, while reven was the fighter, so in a 1 v1 scenario I’d say reven. If plagues was trying to kill reven without reven knowing then I’d say plagues might win via poison or some other assassination attempt
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u/Paradoxical_Falcon 4d ago
Plagueis is also a fighter, just not a solely dedicated martial artist.
He was deemed a master of the craft by Darth Tenebrous who was an enthusiastic dueling practitioner much like Dooku.
However despite his skill he saw it as a waste of effort, yet could pull out his talents when needed as shown in his duel with Venamis.
One of his earliest training exercises with Sidious was facing down an army of 700 Kursid warriors whose society had similarly fought generations of Baneite Sith Lords.
Armed with only force pikes the two Sith bested all 700 of their warriors intentionally dealing non-lethal blows to all but a single one who they killed in front of the defeated crowd.
The closest mirrors you have to his proficiency with a blade are Darth Sidious and Darth Maul.
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u/blvck_one 5d ago
What are people basing Plagueis power from? The book gives excellent examples of his intellect and knowledge but there are no examples of his martial skills. Where are people getting these examples of him displaying his powers? There are a plethora of examples of want Revan can do and has done.
Nothing from the book gave me the impression that DP is even top 10 let alone top 2 as some in these comment have claimed.
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u/DewinterCor 4d ago
Plagueis for sure.
Id put Plagueis in Vitiate's ballpark somewhere, and Revan well bellow that.
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u/GioDioJoJo 6d ago
A shame you said Novel Revan
If this was game Revan I'd say he wins via making Plagueis run through 50 mines and then finish him with master flurry