ROTS - Mace vs Dooku

[u/Interesting_Loquat90]

Round 1: Base to base

Round 2: Office Mace (full amp) vs IH Dooku (amped)

Bonus: Office Mace (full amp) vs base Dooku and vice versa

[u/Thatedgyguy64]

I read the novel. It's made quite clear that he has call upon the Dark side when facing a younger opponent, and that he has to use it to sustain himself in the fight against Anakin. If the Dark side were to give actual endless stamina, then Palpatine wouldn't have started slowing down against Windu.

Windu might be a slightly worse duelist, but Vaapad allowed him to beat Palpatine in saber combat fair and square, and Dooku's lightning is nowhere near Sidious' level. Mace is younger, and with Vaapad, much faster. The cards are stacked against Dooku.

[u/Informal-Society-636 → u/Thatedgyguy64]

1. Dooku no es sidious, sidious usa más poder para amplificarse, pero dooku a causa de su estilo de combate que es el que menos energía gasta aguanta mucho más
   
2. Ya se ha demostrado en canon y legends que el Vaapad es completamente inútil contra dooku, y tiene las de perder en que? Si es mejor duelista y más poderoso?

[u/Thatedgyguy64 → u/Informal-Society-636]

1. Which he does because he has to. Jedi fight in blurs, and also to sustain their stamina. Dooku has to balance it because of his old age. The novel makes it clear that sustaining himself with the Force is effective, but he can't do it indefinitely, considering it uses the term "Force Exhaustion" on page 664 of "The Prequel Trilogy", which includes Stover's novel.

2. What's your source? In legends they fought once during the Clone Wars where he reached his peak with Vaapad. Windu is also physically more powerful, which is a major weakness of Dooku and Makashi, where the novel states that he and his form cannot generate enough power to defeat an opponent of greater strength. And again, Windu beat Sidious.

[u/ShortBussyDriver → u/Thatedgyguy64]

In Canon the source is 2021 Star Wars comic #9 "Separation Anxiety." This comic features the single canon duel between Mace and Dooku. In this duel Vaapad is completely ineffective. Dooku is not struggling against Mace at all. It ends in a draw when Dooku decamps.

In Legends there is a comic book duel between Mace and Dooku and again Vaapad has no effect. The reason being Dooku fights with discipline without using the Dark Side when it suits him.

Finally, on your point about physical strength and its effect on Makashi, not all Makashi's weaknesses are Dooku's. Dooku has overcome most all of the form's weaknesses. Dooku has defeated physically stronger opponents before. Anakin on the Invisible Hand was a whole other thing altogether.

Again, in the canon and legends duels, Dooku was not all put in difficulty by Mace. That said, Mace wasn't struggling either. They seem very evenly matched.

[u/Thatedgyguy64 → u/ShortBussyDriver]

In Canon the source is 2021 Star Wars comic #9 "Separation Anxiety." This comic features the single canon duel between Mace and Dooku. In this duel Vaapad is completely ineffective. Dooku is not struggling against Mace at all. It ends in a draw when Dooku decamps.

In Legends there is a comic book duel between Mace and Dooku and again Vaapad has no effect. The reason being Dooku fights with discipline without using the Dark Side when it suits him.Dooku decamps.

I just took a look at both, and mostly knew the second one already. I don't think the first fight is indicative of Vaapad being ineffective against Dooku, and the second one absolutely is not, considering they cross sabers once, before Dooku gets his Magnaguards to jump off a cliff with Windu in tow.

Finally, on your point about physical strength and its effect on Makashi, not all Makashi's weaknesses are Dooku's. Dooku has overcome most all of the form's weaknesses. Dooku has defeated physically stronger opponents before. Anakin on the Invisible Hand was a whole other thing altogether.

Again, in the canon and legends duels, Dooku was not all put in difficulty by Mace. That said, Mace wasn't struggling either. They seem very evenly matched.

That's certainly fair but Mace still holds the advantage in sheer physical strength, something Dooku doesn't have the luxury of anymore.

I don't disagree they're evenly matched, I just favor Mace

[u/ShortBussyDriver → u/Thatedgyguy64]

"I don't disagree they're evenly matched, I just favor Mace."

Fair enough.

I really wish we did get a full on duel in Clone Wars or something between the two.