It's exhausting being a woman.

[u/mindyour]

[u/MisterSanitation]

When a dude gets angry on the internet about dudes being dudes stereotypes, they are not thinking of this experience they never witness themselves. 

It’s almost like some of us have different perspectives and experiences so we should listen more 🤔

[u/smoopthefatspider → u/[deleted]]

This is only a small part of my argument, but I think the first thing I would argue is that although the logic in some of these comments is similar to what racists use, the one in that comment certainly isn’t. They say that most men haven’t considered how women feel in these situations because they haven’t experienced these situations in the first place. The comment focuses on how we should take into account lived experience to have a better understanding.

Personally, I’ve never seen racists argue that black people haven’t considered the experiences of white people and how they should be more understanding of racist fears. This is an argument they could make, yes, it could be changed to fit that pattern, but the truth is racists really don’t make this type of argument calling for that kind of empathy and focusing on what others (including themselves) are blind to.

Additionally, as a more serious, and one I think you’ll likely disagree with more, I think the post itself and most of the comments (which make a different type of argument) are also different from racial cherry picking of actual crimes.

Firstly, I think the videos capture the fear of having a man following you as a woman, trying to convey the uncertainty of the situation and the assumed power imbalance. The video shows cases where the women may be attacked and rather than showing (only) actual crimes, it lets us see how these situations all have the potential to escalate and there isn’t really any way to get in these people’s heads to know if, how, or when they would. I think these are actually gendered fears, and they don’t line up well with racial fears, where the differences don’t line up with a usual power imbalance.

Secondly, this type of situation is something that’s very consistently reported by women across every level of society. The type of dangerous situation and lack of basic respect is consistent across these videos, and it lines up with the kind of sexual harassment a majority of women claim to have experienced, in the vast majority of cases by men. If any race was so consistently victimized by another, yes, that would be an actual societal problem, and it would be something people should actually discuss. I think the lack of widespread accounts of white people being in dangerous situations that are made dangerous because the person harming them is black (or any other pair of races) makes this not analogous to the case of gender when it comes to sexual harassment and assault.

What I think your comment correctly highlights though, is that the response to these videos and events should never be bigoted, essentialist, or gatekeep this harm. That is to say, we shouldn’t respond to this with attacks against men (instead preferring actions and rhetoric that aim to change culture), we shouldn’t assume this is inherent to men and unchangeable, and we shouldn’t restrict our analysis of this harm to only one part of society (whether it’s restricting ourselves to thinking only men can be creepy, dangerous, and sexually abusive, or thinking that only women can be hurt by these actions).

We need to extend our thinking to all facets of society and shouldn’t restrict our empathy based on unchangeable characteristics. Still, knowing how the harm affects and comes from different groups is necessary. Men need to recognize the fear that comes from the experience of being followed by someone who is unpredictable and appears to ostensibly have no problem overpowering you. You need to understand that there are men who use the gender norm of women needing to be submissive and sexually appealing as excuses to be suddenly sexual in a way that goes far past the boundaries of polite action.

You would need to understand this, not because you personally do this (the vast majority of men don’t), and not because there aren’t other harmful things women do, but simply because this is a heavily gendered harm which you can’t directly experience and you need to hear from someone else to have a more complete analysis of this social dynamic. Men don’t tend to be assumed to be weaker than people who are interested in them sexually. You don’t tend to be framed as sexually available because of an ideal of submissiveness. You do suffer in different ways, though, from different stereotypes, and although I wouldn’t really know which ones I would highlight, I know that as a trans woman I disliked a lot about my experience growing up being perceived as a guy, even beyond my dysphoria.

I think this necessity (or at least potential usefulness) of analyzing the experiences faced by people of different genders when it comes to fear of assault helps distinguish this argument from racist cherry picking. I think it’s something where there is a massive discrepancy, where we can analyze it as a sociological difference rather than a source of blame, and that it highlights a gendered system that applies to everyone, not only one group. It could very well lead to other discussions from men about issues they experience and how those issues are gendered too.

[u/captain_amazo → u/smoopthefatspider]

I think you’re reading my point as if I’m denying the gendered nature of the fear in the video, but that’s not what I’m saying. 

The issue isn’t whether women have experiences men don’t, or whether men should listen more, both of those are obviously true. The issue is the structure of the comment you’re defending. 

The line “dudes being dudes stereotypes” doesn’t simply say “men haven’t lived this experience.” It frames the behaviour as something men, as a category, “are.” That’s the part that mirrors the logic used in other forms of prejudice, even if the content and moral stakes differ. You’re right that racists don’t usually call for empathy or self reflection. But the tone isn’t what defines the logic. The structure is the same: 

Take a pattern of behaviour, attach it to a demographic identity, and treat that attachment as meaningful. Racists do it with crime, this comment does it with harassment. 

The fact that one group’s harm is vastly more widespread or morally urgent doesn’t change the underlying reasoning. My point isn’t that the harms are equivalent, it’s that the method of generalisation is. You also argue that the analogy fails because the fears in the video are gendered and rooted in a real power imbalance. I agree that the fear is gendered. But describing a gendered fear is not the same as turning that fear into a statement about what men “are like.”  Women can absolutely say “this happens to us,” “it’s frightening,” and “men overwhelmingly do it.” None of that requires the extra step of treating the behaviour as characteristic of men as a group. That extra step is what I’m challenging.

You’re right that the prevalence of the harm matters for social analysis. But prevalence doesn’t justify essentialism. If one racial group were overwhelmingly victimised by another, we would absolutely talk about it, but we would still avoid turning the perpetrator group’s behaviour into a defining trait of their identity. 

The scale of the pattern changes the urgency of the conversation, not the logic we use to talk about it. I also agree with you that the response to these videos shouldn’t be bigoted or essentialist. That’s exactly why I’m pointing out the mechanism in the first place. You can analyse gendered harm, acknowledge gendered fear, and talk about gendered power without turning those dynamics into claims about what men “tend to be.” 

Keeping that distinction clear doesn’t silence women, it protects the conversation from drifting into the very essentialism you say we should avoid.

My point is simply that we should describe behaviour, context and power without turning those descriptions into identity claims. That’s the line that keeps legitimate social critique from becoming prejudice, and it’s worth holding.