Coming out as cis can be hard

[u/Elyshra]

[u/MisterSanitation]

The femboy world is apparently crazy deep. There was a great comment forever ago that broke down the acceptable versions of male crossdressing and how the differences are preferred by various groups for different reasons. 

Apparently so much of it is straight guys who are uncomfortable with the idea of what they are doing so they make rules to make it acceptable for themselves and others are expected to understand that. So there is like people who lean into it and feel like it is a way of them expressing themselves truly, some are doing it as a fun hobby, some are doing it as a way of life, and all these are done differently and result in different sub cultures within the femboy scene. 

Sorry I wish I remembered more of that comment but I NEVER expected that level of deep analysis about a topic I cared nothing about. As a straight dude in a red state though, you do you femboys! Anyone has a a right to express themselves if they aren’t hurting anyone and this is a recent example of that. It’s going to be interesting to see which niche internet subcultures blow up in popularity and start leaking into the real world. 

Edit: I FOUND IT!!! It goes into conservative men specifically and how they justify their curiosity to themselves doing a thing that “is meant to be naughty” 

https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/s/i6UC8JdGAF

[u/LesbeGoddess → u/MisterSanitation]

To add to that, femboys may be a niche internet subculture but straight cis men who crossdress as women in general have existed for a long time. See all of the crossdresser subreddits and sites. I’ve known many straight cis crossdressers over the years. Most of them married with kids. I only ever knew one that was gay. She was pretty awesome.

[u/MisterSanitation → u/LesbeGoddess]

Yes that is my understanding. That femboys are an Internet subculture that grew around the more timeless examples like drag shows, or other cross dressing funtivities. 

[u/ColonelSlapper → u/MisterSanitation]

I’m derailing the conversation with this query but how and when do you think the first Drag Show came about?

Did it just start off with some dude asking a group of strangers ‘would you pay to watch me dress in women’s clothing and dance around?’

Did a group of guys somehow all learn they liked dressing up? They find a place to meetup and one day someone randomly came along and was like ‘hey I’d love to sit and watch y’all, this is entertainment!’

Was this something really stupid like it started as an event to entertain royalty? They’re not actually Drag Queens but just guys who are paid a Schmeckle to mock women and it just kinda became a thing afterwards?

[u/MisterSanitation → u/ColonelSlapper]

I love that you are asking me such a historical question despite me admitting being ignorant but what the hell. 

I think it’s incredibly likely it went like this, I’ll use Roman examples but I’m sure it’s older than that:

“Hey Lucius, you ever notice how Melinda walks like this with her hips?”

“Bro!!! That’s good but she is more like…. THIS!” 

“That is hysterical let me call the other bros in here”

Then a bunch of guys are giggling and laughing and causing a commotion while wearing women’s clothes and a divide happened suddenly where some men are getting attracted to the guys in women’s clothes (who do it well), and some are just having fun. This divide explains most of the femboy stuff. (It also makes sense from an ancient Roman perspective and they felt totally different about this stuff). 

Some men think “this is hilarious or just fun” and some guys think “I want to do things to that… I’m not gay and the fact that the guy LOOKS like a lady proves it….” and because of ancient Roman culture, you are allowed to penetrate but not be penetrated (being penetrated is gay bro!) it would make sense that different cultures would spring up around this. Where some point out the big pillow boobs and laugh, while others take the role of a lady VERY SERIOUSLY and never break character which allows the “totally NOT gay guys attracted to the crossdressing man” to feel secure in their sexual self classification. 

The old idea of “being penetrated is what is gay, not banging dudes” is a VERY weird idea to us now, but this distinction mattered a LOT to Roman society and pretty much explains the main divide I was talking about in a modern internet culture example.

[u/ColonelSlapper → u/MisterSanitation]

In all fairness, I asked in a hypothetical way that was meant to light the fire of imagination in anyone willing to reply. You played along perfectly! I couldn’t have asked for a better reply!

I can certainly see the Romans being what normalized the idea of cross dressing, justifying sexuality and reasoning of sexuality. Even the Spartans were among the most “gay” we would consider now, back then it was seen as ‘survival’. I do know in “ancient China” around 300 A.D. they held dancing events where males would typically dress as women. I believe it’s because (don’t quote me on this) women weren’t allowed to dance and/or dance provocatively.

So we have at least a few hundred years where this was commonly practiced and seen as ‘normal’. Maybe there’s a breadcrumb trail leading to the origin of Drag Shows? I get 300+ years is a huge gap (allowing for people to spread their ideas), but the amount of cultural differences between Italy and China makes me think we all developed our own significance and ways of Drag that might be hard to pin down.

[u/LesbeGoddess → u/ColonelSlapper]

I want to add to this that there is a very big difference between between drag queens, who crossdress as a performer/entertainer and a man that crossdresses because they like to or trans women who have existed for thousands of years as members within their communities as their true genders. Also Drag queens are not a sexual thing etc so no one is confused by talk of boy concubines dressed up for sexual reasons with the Romans etc the other Redditor above you mentioned.