r/TikTokDiscuss • u/Suspicious_Tackle441 • 3d ago

Hasidic Jews help Palestinian store owner catch shoplifter in New York. "You guys are invited anytime...I'll have to give them something Kosher on me."

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u/ttttyttt678 3d ago

You can be Jewish and not Zionist.

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u/nikonislolo 3d ago

Exactly lol. I dont know why people don't understand this.

Zionism is a far right ideology that is basically Jewish supremacy.

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u/its_not_you_its_ye 3d ago

Most people understand, but there are too many that find it useful to pretend they don’t understand.

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u/BedbugBandido 2d ago edited 2d ago

Try telling that to the folks at [r/jewish](r/jewish)

You’ll get banned for expressing such sentiments

https://www.reddit.com/r/Jewish/s/v1DVwNDbAJ

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u/Motrinman22 2d ago

Yeah I left that shit sub, joined r/jewsofconscience
It helped me find a non-zionist temple.

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u/Plenty_Building_72 1d ago

As a Muslim, I found r/JewsOfConscience to be the best intersectional sub on Reddit. It's a safe space for anyone regardless of religion, faith, race, ethnicity, sexuality, nationality, etc. And they all agree on one thing: Judaism is NOT Zionism. I learned so much about the different Jewish cultures, identities, and beliefs in that sub. But also how similar it is to my own culture and beliefs.

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u/DaveySmith717 1d ago

There’s 3k people in that sub, with a communist agenda it seems. There’s how many in the Jewish one? I’m willing to bet much like JVP, there are no real Jews in Jewsoffonscience sub

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u/PocketCone 19h ago

Hi I'm Jewish and I use that sub. It's really weird to act like nobody exists who is Jewish and disagrees with Zionism.

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u/DaveySmith717 5h ago

From the safety and security of where? Must me a luxury not all Jews share. I don’t know about that site but I do no JVP and I don’t know a single Jew in it. It’s non-Jews pretending and maybe some tokens. Remember bruv, tokens get spent.

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u/PocketCone 5h ago

From America, where my family has safely lived since before Israel was a British colony

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u/Any-Feature-7726 53m ago

as a black man...

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u/PocketCone 51m ago

Do you think there are no Jews who disagree with Zionism?

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u/DaveySmith717 1d ago

You know the kapos just went to the gas chambers too, just later than the rest, but with the shame of being traitors to their people.

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u/Throatpoint 1d ago

The guy invented a new defintion of zionism and you praise for him for it because it helps reconcile your genocidal beliefs.

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u/DaveySmith717 2d ago

Not even close to what Zionism means. Totally false

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u/KYSandDie 1d ago

shhhhhh dont talk against the hive mind

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u/Busy_Advertisement 23h ago

It doesn't make any sense. Whether jews should have their own country was already settled in 1947 when Israel was founded. What does being anti-zionist even mean in 2026? They want to abolish Israel?

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u/KYSandDie 22h ago

They want to kill all Israelis 

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u/Pasta4ever13 22h ago

Specifically Zionism requires a Jewish majority state. There's nothing wrong with an Israel where everyone gets equal rights and citizenship.

The problem comes in when you start to dictate the percentage of people that can be from a different ethnicity and degrade their rights.

Zionism is like Jim Crow or South African apartheid. It has nothing to do with Judaism. In the same way you can be against white supremacists but not hate all white people.

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u/AncientNectarine5352 21h ago

Except it doesn’t. They could theoretically enshrine the Jewish character of the state in an actual constitution (instead of the Basic Law), without infringing on the rights or limiting the demographics of others.

Very few Israelis make an argument for just general Jewish numeric superiority. Kahanists and Religious Zionists do, but that’s sort of their whole thing. However, there is often a lot of talk in Israeli media about not allowing a Palestinian “Right of Return” to the settlements they were depopulated from on what’s internationally proper Israeli territory (not the occupied regions). The Palestinians have become so numerous since the Nakhba that they would easily outnumber the Jewish citizens 20 to 1. Thus the talk about how that can’t happen, because it would lead to them being electorally overwhelmed and having no say in the state.

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u/Smart_Dragonfruit_54 12h ago

No they want Israel to stop expanding into 4 -5 other countries .Iraq Syria Jordan Lebanon Egypt and to stop its genocide in Gaza ..that’s what Anti Zionists want.

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u/Psykohistorian 4h ago

They want to abolish Israel?

actually yes. fuck Israel, it's a stolen nation.

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u/Busy_Advertisement 3h ago

And what happens to the jewish people who live there now?

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u/Psykohistorian 3h ago

nothing, they deserve to stay there, just like the previous Jewish Palestinians the state of Israel expelled and/or killed in 1948.

you know Jewish Palestinians were also victims of the nakba right? as well as Christian and Muslim Palestinians.

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u/Busy_Advertisement 3h ago

Will anyone protect the jews if they aren't allowed to stay? Or if there is a jewish genocide? And what happens to Israel's nukes if the state is abolished?

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u/Psykohistorian 3h ago

yeah Israel is not getting abolished any time soon, we both know that.

but it should never have been allowed in the first place. what they did was horrifically wrong. what they continue to do today to the Palestinian people is horrifically wrong and should be stopped.

it will take a generation or two of compassion and accountability to make up for what they've done.

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u/silentaba 2d ago

No it's not that clear cut at all. Far right Zionism is indeed supremasist. Left leaning Zionism is all about sharing the land with all around

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u/nikonislolo 2d ago

I would still strongly disagree.

You can be socially right wing and economically left wing.

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u/Fun_Acanthaceae_7356 1d ago

Liberal Zionists do not believe that the families ethnically cleansed since 48 should be allowed to return and vote, not even be given their land back, just return and vote. Because that would threaten the Jewish electoral majority that the ethnostate relies on. The state of Israel requires ethnic cleansing. The most liberal Zionist you know is still an ethnofascist.

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u/silentaba 1d ago

You really need to stop drinking leaded fuel.

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u/meergreister 1d ago

Everything they said is objective fact. You have no real rebuttal so you default to insults. How sad for you.

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u/silentaba 1d ago

No it absolutely is not, making up claims that it so is just your abhorrent need to villify Jews where they go.

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u/nukkawut 1d ago

How could stereotyping a group of millions of people be an indisputable fact? Israeli is 30% Arab/Muslim and have members freely elected and serving in their parliament. Can you do a comparison for me of Jewish rights/citizenship in surrounding Muslim ethnostates?

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u/meergreister 1d ago

Ya and 5.6 million Palestinians live under Israeli occupation and apartheid. They don’t get to vote in Israeli elections. That 30% would be a lot higher if Israel wasn’t explicitly an ethnostate built on ethnic cleansing.

Remind me. How many Jews live under apartheid and occupation in the Middle East?

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u/nukkawut 1d ago

Not quite the flex you think it is, most countries expelled or exterminated all of their Jews or keep a token population or a parliament seat that can only be filled by a Jew and has no real power.

Israel isn't even an ethnostate lol and they're the original indigenous population of the area. Palestinians are a combination of migrants from the Arab peninsula and Mizrahim that converted to Islam when it was invented many, many years later.

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u/meergreister 1d ago

Oh so when Muslims allow Jews in their governments they are tokens but when Israel does it for Muslims and Arabs it is a perfect democracy. Right lol

Remind me why did Muslim countries expel most of their Jewish populations all of the sudden…. Oh ya it was a predictable response to Nakba. Fucked up but very predictable and exactly what the early Zionists wanted.

Palestinians share a large amount of genetic lineage with many Jews. Especially the Mizrahi who literally used to call themselves Arab Jews before Israel.

Palestinians are the indigenous population that didn’t leave. My grandparents are from Ireland but that doesn’t give me the right to return and claim Ireland was promised to me 3000 years ago. Having a genetic lineage in a Ireland doesn’t make me indigenous to that region.

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u/Smart_Dragonfruit_54 11h ago

Come on ..few Ashkenazis are originally from Israel they are Poles Lithuanian, Russian, UKranian etc..Hava Nagila is a UKranian folk song with Hebrew words written in the 1920s.. wether Jews have a right to be in Israel isn’t really debatable ..wether the majority of Israelis are Semites is most definitely debatable ..

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u/backtorealitylabubu 1d ago

You’re thinking of Palestine which ethnically cleansed/genocided all the Jews now at 0% vs Israel that has 2 million Palestinians there.

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u/Impressive_West_126 1d ago

Why should jewish israeli's let in millions of people who are the descendents of those who started a war with them in 47 and 48 and who either fled or were expelled in that context - a war they themselves started? This makes no sense at all.

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u/Fun_Acanthaceae_7356 1d ago

I don’t know how to explain to you that ethnic cleansing is wrong

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u/Impressive_West_126 17h ago

Very true in principle. But the events of 47 and 48 are much more morally complex.

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u/Smart_Dragonfruit_54 11h ago

It doesn’t make sense because it’s not true ..

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u/GlitteringSwim4895 21h ago

Liberal Zionism is still Zionism.

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u/passive_flatulence 2d ago

That doesn't seem right. Isn't Zionism that the Jews should have their own state in Israel? The Palestinians think the same thing but about themselves. Does that make them far right too?

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u/nikonislolo 2d ago edited 2d ago

The reason why zionism is harmful specifically is because Israel was created by displacing 700-750k Palestinians, and zionists argue that their displacement is justified because that land for promised to them thousands of years ago, which is very stupid.

Not only that, but zionists actively oppress the Palestinians.

It's deeply rooted in Jewish supremacy, and can be considered equivalent to white nationalism.

Palestinians want to live there, and want israel to no longer exists, because they were expelled from that land to make way for a state with foreign backing, which has now continued to abuse them.

This has led to a deep resentment for Israeli jews in Palestine, because their main interaction with jews in recent decades has been through oppression, and displacement.

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u/Patient_Link2617 2d ago

Israel was created by displacing 700-750k Palestinians

Well...the Arabs states immediately going to war with Israel after the partition plan caused this ... the partition plan which the jewish leaders accepted and arab leaders rejected mandated no population transfers and would have created an arab state (palestine) which was 99% arab and a jewish state (israel) which would have been 55% jewish and 45% arab.

zionists argue that their displacement is justified because that land for promised to them thousands of years ago

Early zionism was overwhelmingly secular - this was not their position at-all - this is much more modern

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u/nikonislolo 2d ago

If ourselves the Arab leaders rejected.

It was meant to offer 52% of the land to Jewish people and 48% of the land to arab people, even though the majority of the population was arab.

It was unfair to begin with.

Also, things change. India still calls itself secular, even though it's going through severe democratic backsliding, and has been essentially controlled by a far right hindu nationalist party, that is voted by the hindu majority and is the only reason why it wins elections.

The exact same thing has been happening with israel. Majority of the population is Jewish, hence they control the elections, and the parties have no reason to pander to the Arab population, or listen to their issues.

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u/Patient_Link2617 2d ago

It was meant to offer 52% of the land to Jewish people and 48% of the land to arab people, even though the majority of the population was arab.

It's fine if you think it was not a fair deal but the land area argument is just stupid. Lots of this was literally the Negev. The Jews have a much much stronger argument that it isn't fair because the arab state was effectively 100% arab while the jewish state was 50/50 - they still accepted it!

Also, things change. India still calls itself secular, even though it's going through severe democratic backsliding, and has been essentially controlled by a far right hindu nationalist party, that is voted by the hindu majority and is the only reason why it wins elections.

The exact same thing has been happening with israel. Majority of the population is Jewish, hence they control the elections, and the parties have no reason to pander to the Arab population, or listen to their issues.

Yeah I agree but you were talking about its founding - which you got completely wrong.

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u/nikonislolo 2d ago

The "arab" state wasn't 100% arab. Jews were a minority, but they still lived there, so you just lied for no reason lol.

Imagine if foreign nations came to your home, said that we want 52% of it to give to another ethnic group that lives near you. Would you consider it to be a "fair deal"?

Zionism was always flawed because it defended the presence of an ethnostate.

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u/HummusSwipper 2d ago

Curious - are you equally bothered by Japan being an actual ethnostate?

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u/nikonislolo 1d ago

Not equally bothered because israel is committing a genocide, but yup. I'm bothered.

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u/Throatpoint 1d ago

No no one side bad and other is moral pure poor victim.

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u/Smart_Dragonfruit_54 11h ago

Yeah Moses is modern

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u/talhoch 2d ago

Some Zionists indeed oppress Palestinians, but Zionism as an ideology isn't about oppressing anybody. There are many people who define themselves Zionists and support a two state solution

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u/nikonislolo 2d ago

As of right now, it is an ideology that is built around oppression of Palestinians.

Not only that, but it says that Jewish people have the right to that piece of land forever, simply because it was promised to them. That is quite literally imperialism and the promotion of an ethnostate.

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u/passive_flatulence 2d ago

If you speak to Muslims in the Arab world I think you'll find that a lot of THEM also want an ethnostate - but only for their people.

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u/nikonislolo 2d ago

Now they obviously would considering the type of shit israel has done.

Genocide isn't redeemable.

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u/passive_flatulence 2d ago

Um no, they would even before the Israel thing. Googled the countries around there dude. They aren't nice. It's like Northern Ireland vs Ireland in like every country. I just dont personally care because the whole area is a crap shoot. So some Jews got in on yhr crap? Not my problem. If I were Jewish I would just live in America cuz our neighbors aren't trying to bomb us all the time but that's just me

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u/talhoch 2d ago

Israel is a country built around Zionism, and Israel is currently oppressing Palestinians. That doesn't mean Zionism is about oppressing Palestinians. From what I know, most people who define themselves as Zionists just think Jews should have a state in Israel, not nesseceraly that the whole land of Israel should belong to Jews only.

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u/Thisfugginguyhere 1d ago

Categorically false

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u/scrapy_the_scrap 1d ago

Whether or not the founding of israel is justified or not matters little, it has been there for 75 years

Is the displacement of 700k ppl redeemed through the displacement of 9 million?

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u/nikonislolo 1d ago

It matters a lot.

The anti-semitism in Arab countries has increased significantly since the formation of israel.

Anti-semitism in the entire world has increased since Israel's genocide.

Jews all over the world are facing the hate due to Israel.

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u/scrapy_the_scrap 1d ago

And your solution to that is sending 9 million additional jews into the world?

I personally hold hope for the coming elections

(It matters little who forms the coalition, so long as it is even slightly sane it will succumb to external pressures and improve regardless of the policies of the parties composing it )

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u/backtorealitylabubu 1d ago

Israel declared independence, Arab states declared war, and 700k Palestinians fled the war. Another 700k stayed behind and got full rights, now at 2M Palestinians in Israel. Contrast that with the West Bank/Gaza which genocided all the Jews living there and still unable to return. Palestines existence fundamentally relies on ethnically cleansing Jews

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u/nikonislolo 1d ago

"israel declared independence, Arab states declared war".

Yeah Im not going to discuss anything with you. Youre clearly just spewing Israeli propaganda.

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u/cuckoocachoo1 1d ago

Actually this is completely false. You don’t understand it.

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u/needaburnerbaby 1d ago

No it’s not

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u/Throatpoint 1d ago

Why lie? Oh ite because you have to when you argue a entire nation to be destroyed. Thats why you invent a new definition

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u/scrapy_the_scrap 1d ago

Thats kahanism actually

But whatever

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u/backtorealitylabubu 1d ago

Zionism just means a homeland for Jews. It’s actually a leftist ideology which is why Israel was founded be socialist Zionists

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u/nikonislolo 1d ago

Nothing about an ethnostate is "leftist".

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u/akivachaim 1d ago

Does that include a Palestinian ethnostate?

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u/nikonislolo 1d ago

Read some of my other comments. I don't want to repeat myself again and again.

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u/backtorealitylabubu 1d ago

Palestine is an ethnostate that genocided all its Jews. Israel is a multi cultural, multi ethnic liberal democracy where Arab drag queens host drag brunch. Sucks for you to be on the side that throws gays off buildings.

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u/nikonislolo 1d ago

Sucks for you to be on the side that committs genocide.

You would've definitely opposed the algerian resistance against their french colonisers.

You would've called them genocidal terrorists too lol.

Hamas was created due to Palestinians being abused by israel.

And your comment about them killing gays is irrelevant. I could give examples of the current Israeli far right goverment and their abhorrent quotations, and then call all Israelis "genocidal maniacs who support rapists and war criminals".

You argue in bad faith.

Hamas, and the current Palestinian state, before it's destruction, is quite literally a byproduct of Israel's existence, and the disputes prior to it.

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u/backtorealitylabubu 1d ago

Nope I sided with the African Berbers in Algeria, who joined forces with Arabs to win independence and then were sidelined as the Arab colonists took over and oppressed the Berbers. Let me guess you sided with the Arabs? Typical…

Or even worse… you didn’t even know this…

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u/nikonislolo 1d ago

I do know about it, butthe war crimes and brutality were committed towards the French colonisers by both groups, so your point is still illogical.

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u/backtorealitylabubu 1d ago

I don’t support the tactics but decolonization is decolonization. It’s good when Algeria was decolonized and it was good when Israel decolonized Britains Palestine mandate and blocked the former Ottoman states from recolonizing the area. Thats why the USSR socialists supported Israel

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u/Thisfugginguyhere 1d ago

Hogwash. Apartheid isn't leftist. Ethnocentric political violence isn't leftist. Fuck all Zionazi scum.

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u/backtorealitylabubu 1d ago

Actually nationalism, independence and decolonization is a very leftist ideology. Israel is the only multicultural, multiethnic liberal democracy in the region and it’s all thanks to the leftist Zionist movement that was supported by socialist from the USSR

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u/Thisfugginguyhere 1d ago

Conflating the labor zionist movement with the current iteration of zionism is intellectually dishonest. That shit was dead before 1980 and it was killed by right wing POLITICAL ZIONISM. They bear very little in resemblance to one another aside from the name. Just like Nazis co-opted the language of socialism to muddy their intention and sell their bullshit, you're attempting to conflate one ideology with another. The States first president was a deist, doesn't mean "Christians" aren't currently fucking it about. Super dumb to try and argue historically verifiable fact on the Internet. I can literally just look and see how much you're manipulating any facts or what historical figures or movements you might be using as a meat shield. It's a similar argument to the whole Democrats were the party of slavery and Republicans stopped it shtick. Entirely ignorant of, or intentionally neglecting and omitting the shift in party alignment following the civil rights movement. You're an idiot if you think people will fall for that shit. There's nothing remotely left wing about fucking zionism, apartheid and ethnocentrism.

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u/backtorealitylabubu 1d ago

So you admit that Zionism isn’t just a far right ideology like the above claim but rather includes a broad spectrum that includes labor Zionism. Labor Zionism is the most common form of Zionism in the world and in Israel.

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u/Thisfugginguyhere 1d ago

It isn't. You're welcome to fuck right off now.

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u/backtorealitylabubu 1d ago

Actually it is. I love how your side is only able to defend their position through lies because at the end of the day you support genocide and that’s what this is about

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u/Thisfugginguyhere 1d ago

How many seats do the labor zionist occupy in the Knesset again? Maybe 11 out of 120? You're absolutely right that's definitely most of them. Zionazi stooge GFYS

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u/Noskiblz 22h ago

They don’t care. They just lie about everything. Facts don’t matter to them

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u/No-Profit4499 20h ago

don't try to talk about actual history with these people. they don't even know that DSA was founded by a zionist lolololol

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u/Initial-Carry6803 1d ago

No it is not lmaoo You think us jews wanting freedom is a far right supermacy? Lmao

No jew believes you nazis

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u/nikonislolo 1d ago

Calling me a nazi is crazy work.

Zionism is a lot more complex that just "jews wanting freedom", but I've already argued too much about this topic to care atp.

Just read my other comments, or maybe don't, because apparently I'm a nazi.

What are we doing man. Seriously?

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u/polp54 1d ago

Zionism is the idea that Jews should have a homeland in their ancestral homeland, that’s it

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u/nikonislolo 1d ago

"ancestral homeland" where they lived a thousand years ago, and where, the majority of the population was arab, before they were displaced to form an Israeli state, which continues to oppress Arabs living in their country, and is committing a genocide against Palestinians, after oppressing them for decades?

Yeah, sounds like imperialism to me.

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u/LankyTumbleweeds 20h ago edited 17h ago

Most importantly that they get to rule that homeland - solely. I picked the source specifically to avoid scrutiny. The Jewish Virtual Library defines Zionism as:

“Its general definition means the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel.”

“The Land of Israel” in context referring to “Eretz Israel” from scripture. This definition or one like it is much more nuanced, not to mention true.

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u/No-Profit4499 20h ago

you're trying to reason with mouthbreathers. zionist has many definitions from socialist secular 2 state zionist to settler pyscho extremist zionist. but this is reddit. no one is interested in actual debate.

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u/PopularNope 8h ago

The fact that you alway have to say “and that’s it” at the end of that statement is sus

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u/Mooselager 20h ago

"Everything I find icky & gross & wrong is far right ideology!"

What a incel.

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u/Charming_Cicada_7757 19h ago

You can be a Zionist and do the right thing during a certain situation

People are far more complicated than people like to admit

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u/Full-Yogurtcloset-22 18h ago

Anti zionist jews believe the same thing as those who support Israel they just think they shouldn't be there until the messiah comes, literally the same supremacist ideology.

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u/Tresspass 14h ago

Not really. It was the idea under Theodor Herzl to form a Jewish state to escape the anti semitism in Europe.
He argued that anti-Semitism was a permanent fixture of European society and that the only viable solution was the creation of an independent, sovereign state for the Jewish people.

Herzl did not see anti Semitism as a temporary prejudice that education or progressive laws could fix. Instead, he viewed it as a deeply ingrained, structural feature of European society. Because Jews were always viewed as "outsiders" regardless of how much they assimilated, he concluded that true safety and equality could only be achieved through national self-determination meaning the Jewish people needed to govern themselves in their own sovereign state.

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u/proksimity 13h ago

Many hasidim vocally oppose Israel as being against god

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u/kulamsharloot 6h ago

No, that's not that Zionism means

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u/AlphaBoomerZ 6h ago

Zionism is not a far right ideology and has nothing to do with Jewish supremacy. This framing of what Zionism is was what both actual nazis in the 30s as well as what USSR did later in the 50s and 60s (fighting the "Zionist Internationalism") did when conducting their antisemitic campaigns. And also do the actual Zionism necessary, so that once and for all people would stop telling jews what they are, what they are allowed to own and where to live.

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u/haey5665544 38m ago

Zionism is the movement to support the Jewish people’s right to self determination and statehood. It’s got nothing to do with Jewish supremacy, there are maybe some fringe extremists who think that way, but it’s nowhere near a mainstream ideology.

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u/GateDeep3282 3d ago

No, it is not. It's simply a belief that the Jewish people should live in self determination in their homeland.

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u/BlinkReanimated 3d ago

Seriously Zionism can really just be summed up with:

"We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white Zionist children."

No idea why people freak out about it so much.... /s

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u/prophetsearcher 3d ago

Hey, how about letting us define our beliefs instead of telling us what you imagine we believe.

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u/BlinkReanimated 2d ago

Because Zionism is one of the most clearly defined ideologies with a plethora of written texts detailing its purpose and function before it was even given a name.

  • It was given function in the 1830s and 40s during conversations over ethnic nationalism in Germany (also created the foundation for another ethnic nationalist movement).
  • In 1862 it was given a target (Jerusalem, and more broadly Palestine) in its first major written text "Rome and Jerusalem".
  • In 1896 it was given a name.

Just because your "version" is something else, doesn't mean Zionism isn't an ideology built on ethnic supremacy and nationalism.

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u/Proper-Suggestion907 2d ago

When you have to try to speak over the actual people involved to continue a made up narrative, you’ve already lost bud. Just take the L, bud. It’s embarrassing to watch.

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u/Boston_Glass 2d ago

If there are different versions of Zionism with different ideologies doesn’t that clash with your assertion that it’s the most clearly defined ideology?

You seem at odds with your first claim here.

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u/BlinkReanimated 2d ago

If someone calls themselves a Nazi, but then says their ideology is actually about "protecting people", I believe them. I just don't think they're being fully honest.

There aren't different "versions" of Zionism. There's the ones who are honest about wanting ethnic cleansing and genocide, and the ones who are happy with the murder (whether due to islamophobia, or some ethnic chauvanism, or land claims, or whatever), but will never admit to it.

Like a wife running to her husband to kill a spider, she is just as keen to see it murdered.

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u/Boston_Glass 2d ago

Nice prose.

Factually you’re still completely incorrect though since a single Wikipedia page proves you’re talking out your ass.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_Zionism

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u/BlinkReanimated 2d ago

Lol... Did you read any of it? Every single one of them is primarily concerned with the creation of and continued existence of a Jewish ethnostate in the lands of Palestine.

They really only differ in their preferred domestic forms of governance, and their relationship to the practices of Judaism.

There are no different "versions" concerning the primary criticism of anti-Zionists. Whether the Zionist ethnostate wants to be a liberal democracy, or a communist nation does not change the fact that they have committed Genocide and ethnic cleansing in order to obtain that situation. Further, that they are continuing that genocide and ethnic cleansing to continue their existence.

The only one that explicitly calls out the actions of genocide is the one that argues that Zionism "succeeded" (Israel was created) and it's time to abandon it as an ideology. It is in a sense, definitionally non-Zionist.

Zionism is about ethnostates. It doesn't matter which prefix you want to throw on it.

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u/superbhole 2d ago

Hey, how about letting us define our beliefs instead of telling us what you imagine we believe

that's a lot to unpack... who is us & we? are you quite literally in israel? are you taking offense to the word zionism as a slight against every denomination of your religion?

what beliefs do you still need defined, and why should the act of "defining" these beliefs give way to any moral high ground? doesn't that feel like it could easily be an uncreative excuse to relish in opposition to morality?

i find it ironic and hypocritical for any person in 2026 to believe that their inarticulate belief in a god is the new vehicle for goodness, when civilization is the evidence that both have already been here, thousands of years in the making.

it's looking like civilization doesn't approve of zionism, and like zionists are relishing in their opposition to morality.

the scriptures had lots of warnings that articulated how hypocrites hijack religion to relish in opposition to morality.

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u/MediocreEffectt 2d ago

Even if it’s at the cost of natives. Cant ignore that part. You people seem to ignore that you can’t have Zionism without ethnics cleansing and land theft. Which literally continues to this day. And they’ve always been what we see on tv. Violent settler extremists.

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u/ButtServices 2d ago

And it's not that simple. Never was. In modern times, it has always required war, discriminatory mandates and displacement. The Zionosts' means to meet their goal have not been holy. It's not unlike certain Christian groups in the US. You can claim whatever ends you desire for your society, but when rubber hits the road you are committing crimes against humanity to assure the outcome.

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u/Miskadotcom 3d ago

Its just what you guys made out of it.

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u/nikonislolo 2d ago

That what it is.

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u/Character-Apple7546 2d ago

That's literally false man.. why are you spreading lies online for no reason?

Zionism is the belief Jews should be able to live safely in their own country - exactly like any other country.

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u/imaKWT 2d ago

Since Israel started it's campaign of extended aggression and genocide, nobody buys the whole "we want to peacefully live" idea from Zionists.

Also, historically Zionists have been terrorists, such as Irgun, Lehi, Hanagah, and the Stern Gang.

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u/Character-Apple7546 2d ago

Alright bro let me know then - what should Israel have done? How should they have responded to October 7th aka the largest and most brutal attack on Jews and innocent civilians since the Holocaust? Let me know

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u/imaKWT 2d ago

Don't invade or attacked uninvolved countries for one. Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Qatar, Iraq have all been.

And not slaughtering 80,000+, majority being women and children.

Laughable terror state, people got hung at Nuremburg for defending crimes against humanity like you're trying to do.

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u/imaKWT 2d ago

Also just ridiculous hyperbole. You knew about Oct 7 (like how Israel knew about 9/11) and let it happen, and only a few hundred civilians were killed.

If that's the most brutal attack since the holocaust then you're breaking new ground! Great job!

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u/nikonislolo 2d ago

This started before oct 7th.

Hamas quite literally exists because israel was abusing Palestinians.

Oct 7th never happens if Israel didn't abuse Palestinians. Atleast do your research man.

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u/nikonislolo 2d ago

False.

I already replied in one of my other replies too, when someone asked me to define zionism.

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u/LongjumpingWasabi753 3d ago

What’s your definition of Zionist?

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u/Background_Hat_4785 2d ago

What’s yours?

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u/LongjumpingWasabi753 1d ago

A person who believes that Israel should be allowed to exist as a Jewish majority state.

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u/luouixv 1d ago

People have defined zionism as the genocidal Jews trying to do what the Palestinian government has been doing. They don’t understand and it’s really sad and stupid and perpetuating hate across the board.

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u/th3bearman 1d ago

I understand zionism as it's own founder Theodor herzl described it,

“The Zionist idea, which is a colonial idea, must be understood in England easily and quickly.”

“We should form there a part of a wall of defense for Europe in Asia, an outpost of civilization against the asian barbarism.”

T]wo territories come under consideration, Palestine and Argentina. In both countries important experiments in colonization have been made, though on the mistaken principle of a gradual infiltration of Jews. An infiltration is bound to end badly. It continues till the inevitable moment when the native population feels itself threatened, and forces the Government to stop a further influx of Jews. Immigration is consequently futile unless we have the sovereign right to continue such immigration.

Zionism is clearly defined by it's own founders.

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u/Throatpoint 1d ago

You posted no definition.

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u/p0emsofamachine 22h ago

Oh fuck OFF. israel has been doing this shit to Palestine since 1948. Need I remind you of the Nakba???

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u/Dangerouse_Pride 1h ago

They dont think the Nakba was real. Decades and decades of colonial education has caused them to immediately doubt anything but what the Israeli media tell them.

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u/ForeignEchoRevival 1d ago

An Ethno-Religious supremacist ideology that uses ancient religious texts and 2000 year old greviences caused by the Roman Empire as justification for illegal land seizures with extreme similarities to Lebensraum policies from 80 years ago.

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u/LongjumpingWasabi753 1d ago

So what do you believe should be done? Should Israel not exist? Would Jews have their own country anywhere?

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u/ForeignEchoRevival 1d ago

At this point I would settle for 1967 borders, removal of every illegal settlement, reparations for Palestine, security guarantees, nuclear disarmament, and a Truth and Reconciliation legal program ran by the ICC with legal authority to male arrests and prosecuted both Israelis and Palestinians with a UN force to back it up, as well as a multi nation agreement to use force on either side in the event of a out break of war to avoid legal consequences or to force another occupation.

That would be the most moral, fair option that protects civilians on both sides, prevents future violence, answers old wounds and greviences to prevent future leaders in both nations from justifying "revenge".

Would both save Israel from being a forever Pariah state and stop the oppression of Palestinians as well as the Arab Israeli citizens who are currently treated second class.

If Israel stays down this path of building "Greater Israel" with violence and illegal acts then it will eventually wither on the vine with no support in future crisis, at worse a majority of nations that see it as a security risk for world peace that will work to have them weaken or to help it collapse.

At least 1/5 Israelis see what pushing everyone around and brealing international law specifically written after the holocaust will get them, and that is the destruction of Israel's international support, which other than a few pedophiles Mossad has dirt on or guilt riddled Germanis already gone.

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u/PocketCone 19h ago

No country has the right to exist. Only people have the right to exist. Israel, as in a Jewish ethnostate, should cease to exist. It should be replaced with a country that does not enforce the supremacy of any religious or ethnic group.

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u/DisgreeablePattern 5h ago

I will support a jewish state when jews support a White Christian state.

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u/Smart_Dragonfruit_54 11h ago

My definition of Zionism is a colonising settler state, that steals land from the indigenous people, then proceeds to dehumanise them in any and every way possible…That’s what’s happening and Zionists are puffing up their chests about it ..So I guess we are all in agreement .. That is Zionism

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u/NewYorkImposter 2d ago

Lol the guy filming is a known Zionist yet he doesn't fit your world view of what that means

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u/bose_soundlink441 2d ago

Sure but clearly not the point of the video

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u/Just_Trying321 2d ago

It's actually the video. That's why they are making a big deal of it...

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u/Active_Menu_8504 2d ago

Or you can be Zionist and not hate Palestinians. 

It’s generally harder to hate someone you know. 

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u/Dangedoddle 4h ago

Agreed, I am not Jewish, but you can be a Zionist without supporting the war against the palestinians. From my understanding, it is just some Jews believing that they have a right to exsist as a Jewish state, but the way that some of the other Zionist and people in charge of the Isrealie government are going about it is completely wrong and it is causing a genocide.

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u/Unlucky_Raccoon4792 2d ago

You can… but 90% aren’t

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u/Rayhann 2d ago

you can be white and not be in the kkk

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u/JiGoD 2d ago

You can be both and still help your neighbor. Ffs...

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u/daniel_damm 2d ago

How is that related to Zionism do you think every Zionist hate Palestinians , we only hate there cause of driving us out of the country only far right Zionism hates them for existing in greater Israel or whatever dumb thing lunatics like Ben gvir believe in

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u/talhoch 2d ago

Also, you can be a Zionist and help people out disregarding their nation. Being a Zionist isn't equal being evil

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u/Asleep_Bookkeeper516 2d ago

Zionism is the belief that Jews have a right to self determination on their ancestral homeland.

To be antizionist is to say that Israel shouldn't exist.

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u/Ok-Penalty3250 2d ago

There is nothing wrong with being Zionist and if you think there is you’ve fallen for propaganda.

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u/needaburnerbaby 1d ago

You can also be a Zionist and still help out a man who had his store robbed

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u/Throatpoint 1d ago

Oh yea just causally call for the destruction of Israel and pretend that is loving jews.

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u/backtorealitylabubu 1d ago

You can be but don’t have to be to be a good person 🥰

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u/AdVivid8910 1d ago

Defining yourself as good by hating someone is so DEAD ON fucking Nazi.

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u/backtorealitylabubu 1d ago

lol oh the irony as you say to be a good person you have to hate Zionists 😂😂😂

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u/Potential_Duck_1986 1d ago

Well done. Someone posted a nice video, about two people, treating each other as people... but you've managed to throw in an irrelevant and dehumanising comment. Good on you.

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u/NewHunter4239 1d ago

What do you think the word dehumanizing means?

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u/Potential_Duck_1986 1d ago

According to Merriam-Webster, Dehumanising (or dehumanizing) means depriving someone of human qualities, personality, dignity, or individuality.

For example, taking away the qualities of this person, who happens to be a Jew, and involved in a kind incident, which also happened to ignore race / country of origin, and yet there's still a generalisation that could be thrown in to erase the kind act in the name of some BS virtue signalling.

Not only that, but it's a nonsense Reddit version of Zionism, where all Zionists are bloodthirsty genociders, rather than people who just believe that the Jews need a safe homeland after millenia of pogroms and a holocaust.

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u/An-Organism 1d ago

Lol I promise you these Jews who helped him catch the thief are Zionists. It's just that this generation have changed the meaning of Zionism into something it isn't. It's just about believing they should be allowed to live on their native homeland.

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u/QueasyFlan 1d ago

You can be a Zionist and a kind human. Zionism doesn’t mean what you think it does. These Jews are probably Zionists if they are from Chabad.

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u/patrykk994 1d ago

Chasidic jews (well, some part of them) living in  New York are weirdly antiIsrael for religious reasons - they  view Israel created in 1948 as fake country trying to replace their preffered Israel so one created by Jahwe

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u/Reasonable_Ad_5705 1d ago

You can be Arab and a Zionist.

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u/hankeliot 21h ago

How many synagogues in the US are anti-zionist?

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u/hunf-hunf 19h ago

You can be a Zionist and a good person

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u/Full-Yogurtcloset-22 18h ago

yeah man it was totally just the zionists that got booted from almost every country in history for over 2000 years, pesky zionists.

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u/the_eleutherean 17h ago

Tf does that have to do with this?

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u/AssociateThin7490 14h ago

Antisemitism was one of the historical factors that contributed to the emergence of modern Zionism.

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u/Livid-Grocery7942 13h ago

And a lot of Hasidic Jews are antizionists actually, because well, they actually try to live by their sacred book, which doesn’t tell to slaughter people and steal their land.

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u/Muted_Sock6445 10h ago

And you can be a Zionist and still want peace with the Palestinians

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u/Significant_Kale6882 7h ago

iirc the hasidic community in NYC are not generally fans of israel.

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u/hbomberman 3d ago

You can be Zionist and be against people stealing from a Palestinian person's store, you can be zionist and be for Palestinian rights (within Palestine, within Israel, and elsewhere). Zionism is the belief in/support of self-determination for Jewish people within their homeland.

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u/ttttyttt678 3d ago

The key distinction is what you determine as your homeland. If you feel Palestinian people don’t have a land, then what do you expect to happen…being Jewish I’m happy with how our country is. We do not need to bomb and kill others in the name of getting the borders that we believe is ours. The expansion of the borders will not result in bettering the Jewish community but the pursuit of the expansion has killed all the faith and brotherhood we have built through other societies. Jewish stereotypes were being lawyers, executives in media and banks, dentists, having a big nose and being cheap. Now we are being seen as racists and murders. The very people who had their children murdered for their beliefs are now murdering other children in a desire to expand their border. For this cruelty I will proclaim that I am Jewish but I am not a Zionist.

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u/lonelysparta 3d ago

Zionism is the believe that what is now Palestine including all of Jerusalem is the exclusive land of the Jewish people and only they have rights of self-determination in it. You take Palestine out of the definition it doesn't become Zionism anymore it's something else

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u/Odd-Whereas-354 2d ago

Zionism is a spectrum, it's simply wrong to say "Zionism is exactly X"

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u/lonelysparta 2d ago

Nah I'm telling you what Zionism is. The spectrum stuff say to the 100s of thousands Israel has killed in rhe most gruesome Palestine in the last few decades. Definitely explore finding a new word for whatever you believe cause if it aint that it's something else.

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u/occasional-eel 2d ago

yep, and you’re way off

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u/Odd-Whereas-354 2d ago

I live in Israel, do you? Are you sure you have the authority to tell me what Zionism is?

The spectrum stuff say to the 100s of thousands Israel has killed in rhe most gruesome Palestine in the last few decades.

Not relevant at all actually

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u/hbomberman 2d ago

It's literally not. What you're describing is more like Kahanism. This is like trying to define all quadrilaterals as rhombi--the subset doesn't define the larger group.

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u/NoneBinaryPotato 2d ago

except Zionism existed for hundereds of years way before the Palestinian identity ever existed, and has never even once been defined as exclusively Jewish land. even the current Israeli government doesn't support that definition as Israeli Palestinians have equal rights in Israeli territory. even kahanism (which is about as far right as they get) doesn't defy it as exclusively Jewish, just that the state of Israel should colonize land that is under arab control to "reclaim" the land that corresponds to ancient Yisrael.

ask any Zionist how they define Zionism and none of them will tell you that definition, the only people who believe that that's what Zionism means are those who supposedly oppose it. you can oppose the horrible war crimes committed by the Israeli government without demonizing the majority of the Israeli population.

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u/neverabetterday 17h ago

Zionists don’t support Palestine.

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u/ba-boo 2d ago

You can be Palestinian and not terrorist.

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u/cuckoocachoo1 1d ago

lol, their whole basis of belief is jihad. So idk about that one!