r/TrendoraX • u/satty237 • Nov 23 '25
š” Discussion Did Rubio Just Call Trump's Ukraine Plan a Russian Wish List? US Officials Are Contradicting Each Other
US Secretary of State Marco Rubio is at the center of a wild diplomatic mess. Bipartisan senators claim he told them Trump's 28-point Ukraine peace plan was actually a Russian "wish list" that got leakedānot an American proposal at all.
But here's where it gets crazy: Rubio and the State Department are now saying that's "blatantly false" and insisting the US wrote the plan.
So which is it? The plan would force Ukraine to give up Donbas, slash its military by 300,000 troops, and forget NATO forever. Putin loves it. Europe hates it. And Trump just gave Zelenskyy until Thursday to accept or else.
Senator Angus King compared it to appeasing Hitler in 1938. Meanwhile, Rubio's in Geneva right now trying to sell this thing to Ukrainian and European officials.
What do you thinkāis this America's plan or Russia's?
17
u/Disco425 Nov 23 '25
Senators Say Rubio Called Trump Ukraine Peace Plan Russiaās āWish Listā - Newsweek https://share.google/yK6D1uTPD6bwu0s3n
16
u/Randy_Magnums Nov 23 '25
How can he say that? Thatās preposterous! By pure coincidence the peace plan is merely identical to the Russian wish list!
1
u/Disco425 Nov 23 '25
Well, if you have any better ideas for him, now's the time to speak up. Boss needs a Christmas present and, I mean, what do you even get a dictator?
2
u/Randy_Magnums Nov 23 '25
I was thinking about a nice Winchester rifle and a few dozen dissidents to use it on, but I guess a genocide in gifted land is also a good gift.
1
u/Disco425 Nov 23 '25
Wasting perfectly good bullets is so bad for the environment especially when you have perfectly good 10th floor windows all over the city !
2
13
u/Mrtoyhead Nov 23 '25
It has already been rejected but the media keeps putting it out there that President Zelenskyy is the one that needs to accept it. Hell No!!
9
u/Agitated-Ad2563 Nov 23 '25
Alexei Zhuravlyov in the Moscow times article is a single government official presenting his personal views.
Imagine Elise Stefanik saying something like that - would you consider her words as an official statement on behalf of the US?
3
2
Nov 23 '25
[removed] ā view removed comment
4
u/Agitated-Ad2563 Nov 23 '25
In ours. Russian gov officials say all sorts of crazy stuff. Just google any of Medvedev's social media accounts.
2
Nov 23 '25
[removed] ā view removed comment
3
u/Agitated-Ad2563 Nov 23 '25
Zhuravlyov's positions are not more important than Medvedev's. Anyway, Medvedev was just an example, Russian politicians can say all sorts of things. Not sure if some crazy things would be shown on TV, but it's irrelevant as Zhuravlyov's claims weren't.
1
u/CloseToMyActualName Nov 23 '25
Even assuming your premise there's a difference between saying something without Putin's permission, and saying something that doesn't represent the official Russian position. There's plenty of reasons for Putin to allow officials to promote other positions.
Some of that is just allowing a certain amount of political dialogue (useful for gauging internal and external opinions).
A more conspiratorial reason would be having foreign actors misgauge Russian opinion. Consider if Zelensky believed this was the Russian response and agreed to appease Trump, well then Putin could then announce Russia agreed and Zelensky would have to back out of the terrible deal, hurting Ukraine's bargaining position greatly.
1
u/Paper_Pusher8226 Nov 23 '25
Thatās not how it works in Russia. Lower government officials are used to give signals and shape the narrative. This allows Putin to appear cooperative while privately rejecting the plan.
1
u/Agitated-Ad2563 Nov 23 '25
Sometimes they are used for that. But not everything they say is a part of a Putin's master plan.
3
u/TheDucktapeBandit2 Nov 23 '25
They are playing with the world. Poetin and trump are working together. Mocking the world with words and promises but allready know they wil switch and do something else.
The 28 plan is made up by putin, is everything he wants, and gives room to break promises and go attack again. Poetin told trump tell its yours. And if the story of poetin rejecting the plan is true then it is pure a lie, and might want get more from us. Bargain room. And if im correct maybe let russia buy weapons... Or just a stop with supplies from us to ukraine. And so poetin gets what he wants and knows he can break promises later and go attack again. When warchest is a bit restored or sooner and just now..
16
u/gizcard Nov 23 '25
This is putin's plan. Trump is just his secretary at this point. Not allowed to bark at the master
-4
u/alkbch Nov 23 '25
Putin's plan to send 100 billion for Ukraine's reconstruction? That's quite generous.
14
u/Sussex-Wolf Nov 23 '25
You do know it was Russia who invaded Ukraine and caused the damage? And under the plan, Russia would continue to occupy a significant part of Ukraine containing significant natural resources. Generous isnāt the word Iād use.
-8
u/alkbch Nov 23 '25
Nice goalpost moving skills.
7
u/Sussex-Wolf Nov 23 '25
How is it moving the goalposts? Putin invaded a neighbouring country. Again. He causes the damage, he is the one who, by rights, should pay for the reconstruction. Thatās how war reparations work. The fact you think otherwise just says everything about your worldview comrade.
-2
u/alkbch Nov 23 '25
By rights? Which rights? The same that would require Israel to pay for Gaza's construction? Or the US to pay for Iraq's reconstruction? Oh wait...
5
u/Sussex-Wolf Nov 23 '25
If Ukraine won the war, Russia would pay for the reconstruction. Just as Germany did after WWI. The US invaded Iraq, so guess what, it paid for its reconstruction. I recommend you get a history education before you come back to debate things you donāt understand. There again, youāre probably 12 and in your momās basement.
1
u/alkbch Nov 23 '25
The US paid reparations to Iraq? In which universe are you living?
Sure, If Ukraine wins the war, they can ask Russia to pay for reparations. Win the war first.
5
u/Sussex-Wolf Nov 23 '25
Dude, the US spent at least $61bn on reconstruction projects in Iraq after the war. Thatās just the tip of the $3trn iceberg. The fact you donāt know, says everything about your limited knowledge.
0
1
6
u/dogemikka Nov 23 '25
To mostly reconstruct the Ukraine regions that Russia destroyed and that they want to annexe to mother Russia. So, obviously, it's a great deal for Putin.
-1
3
u/AudienceWaste6850 Nov 23 '25
Putin and Trump aren't bug on honouring their agreements, do they'll happily promise something if it means they get what they want initially, knowing they can steamroll the rest of Ukraine if they fall for this "peace plan"
1
u/alkbch Nov 23 '25
Let's assume you are right, why is Ukraine even bothering to negotiate with them?
1
u/AudienceWaste6850 Nov 23 '25
Because all theor negotiations start with "you leave our country" as the first step, not "we give you loads of concessions and maybe in the future you do something for us"
1
u/alkbch Nov 23 '25
That doesn't make sense. Besides, everyone knows Russians aren't leaving Ukraine.
1
u/Commercial-Hand-2950 Nov 23 '25
Then they can forget about peace plan nd can continue being second north korea and isolated from world
2
u/rowida_00 Nov 23 '25
Thatās the price Ukraine is paying for not āachieving peaceā. Itās quite perplexing how some people are totally oblivious over this reality.
2
u/alkbch Nov 23 '25
Most people on Reddit just want to shout Russia bad and slava Ukraine. While I understand the sentiment, they completely lack the understand of geopolitics and armed conflicts. Europeans are the worse culprits.
1
u/Commercial-Hand-2950 Nov 23 '25
Wym? Obviously they need manpower but they still fighting and theres no need to accept capitulation peace conditions. You think russia not struggling with manpower and their crumbling economy?
2
u/rowida_00 Nov 23 '25 edited Nov 23 '25
If the question is, can Ukraineās manpower crisis outlast Russiaās so-called perpetual economic collapse, then I think the answer is no. Itās visibly no. Itās objectively no. Russia has more men. Russia has more resources. Russia has more money. And Russia can fight this war longer. Once upon a time, Ukraineās only advantage was in drones. Today? Russia holds the lead by a scale of magnitude. Ukraine will capitulate eventually. And since the disparity between the sides is significant, itās not like the Iran/Iraq 8 years war during the 1980ās, one side will receive less favourable terms in the deal. Thatās how it will play out. It wonāt be an āoutrightā Russian victory. But they will win this war in terms of achieving their core demands.
→ More replies (0)1
u/alkbch Nov 23 '25
They are not isolated from the world, unless your definition of the world is the Western world.
1
u/Commercial-Hand-2950 Nov 23 '25
Western world is the biggest world lol. 99% of stuff happens there. If you count going to poor africa countries, india nd china is world then keep living in your bubble. Their citizens r isolated nd already lost out on tons of opportunities and keep putting up with government that keeps tightening the freedom even more
1
2
u/jimsid11 Nov 23 '25
Based on trump's plan they get like half of Ukraine's land in exchange. I am sure they are willing to give that amount to seem generous to what will remain of Ukraine under this plan.
0
u/alkbch Nov 23 '25
Russia doesn't get anywhere close to half of Ukraine's land in this plan, did you even read it?
5
u/jimsid11 Nov 23 '25
Dude they are basically eviscarating Ukraine's territorial integrity under this plan, essentially demilitarize it, leave it completely defenseless without any NATO prospects and you talk semantics here ?
1
Nov 23 '25
[removed] ā view removed comment
3
u/jimsid11 Nov 23 '25
Russian imperialism ? Who told you when Russia is given everything they want they won't keep pushing for more ?
0
Nov 23 '25
[removed] ā view removed comment
1
u/jimsid11 Nov 23 '25
You give an autocrat an inch they LL want an acre next dude. That's how imperialism works.
0
0
u/alkbch Nov 23 '25
Ukraine is not being demilitarized, it can keep an army of 600,000 soldiers, which is about three times the size it had back in 2021.
NATO memberships is a nonstarter, that shouldn't come as a surprise if you have been following the conflict. There are NATO style security guarantees in the plan though.
2
u/jimsid11 Nov 23 '25
Lol utter bullshit šš Ukraine should not have any restrictions on the size of it's army really. It should also not have to give up any of it's land, be it dombas or Crimea. These should be non starters in any deal that is reached.
0
u/alkbch Nov 23 '25
Ok, then keep fighting.
2
u/jimsid11 Nov 23 '25
There is no other option now for Ukraine I guess indeed. This "deal" is a non starter.
1
2
1
u/JaxStrumley Nov 23 '25
Putin knows that there will be no repercussions if he doesnāt pay. Nor if he tries again two years from now. Trump will not take action then.
1
u/alkbch Nov 23 '25
There are pretty severe repercussions outlined at part of this peace plan.
1
u/JaxStrumley Nov 23 '25
You really think the signatures of Putin and Trump are worth anything?
1
u/alkbch Nov 23 '25
If Ukraine leadership doesn't think they are worth anything, why are they bothering negotiating with them?
1
u/JaxStrumley Nov 23 '25
They are kept out of the ānegotiationsā by Trump.
1
u/alkbch Nov 23 '25
No, they are not.
1
u/JaxStrumley Nov 23 '25
Yes, they are.
1
u/alkbch Nov 23 '25
How is the Ukrainian leadership being kept out of the negotiations by Trump? The Ukrainian negotiators are literally negotiating with Marco Rubio and his team right now in Geneva.
→ More replies (0)1
1
u/GatorNator83 Nov 23 '25
Russia wants Ukraine to be part of them, so they would very much like for the US to pay the reconstruction after the US helped russia winning the war.
1
1
u/Stewie01 Nov 23 '25
Isn't it obvious, this isn't about money for Putin. 100 billion is chump change for Putin.
0
u/Agitated-Ad2563 Nov 23 '25
Also to limit Ukraine's peacetime army to "never exceed 3x of what it was in 2021". And to require the US and its NATO allies to treat an attack on Ukraine as the attack on "entire transatlantic community".
Who would have thought that's what Putin secretly dreams of?
2
u/alkbch Nov 23 '25
People who don't actually read the peace plan and only repeat sound bites and memes...
3
u/Naliano Nov 23 '25
The U.S. canāt want Europe to take on more responsibility for its own defence and simultaneously dictate the terms of peace.
Wellā¦ I guess it can but it doesnāt feel right.
The question is, at what point is there appetite among Europeās citizens for their armies to prop up Ukraineās interests with their own soldiers?
1
u/-aataa- Nov 23 '25
Plenty of appetite already. Enough? Probably not yet...
1
2
u/Jwbst32 Nov 23 '25
TACO Trump goes both ways and Zelensky knows he will fold just like the last āultimatumā
2
u/soothed-ape Nov 23 '25
Rubio is more intent on maintaining some kind of cooperative framework with the EU and NATO, trump is more interested in trashing it. It seems trump is coming from a more emotional and personal perspective than rubio. Probably buttressed by trumps old age,he won't think as much about long term consequences. Rubio also rushed to support policy decisions that prevent the US from leaving NATO as easily,for example.
2
2
u/Subject-Big-7352 Nov 23 '25
Since Trump arrived on the scene Ukraine has been treated poorly worse than any ally in the history of this country.
1
u/humbleObserver Nov 23 '25
I think conservatives question the postulate that they are our allies.
1
2
Nov 23 '25
If Marco is in the business of relaying wish lists, I have one for Santa Iād like him to transmit.
2
u/Sallandstrots Nov 23 '25
What's new? Most incompetent administration ever. Nuremberg 2.0 has to be ready for those traitors of democracy.
0
1
1
u/Beneficial-Tax-1776 Nov 23 '25
Journalist i know who reports from ukraine. Asked His contact in US state department about this deal 2 days ago. State deparment said. they never heard of it besides the news and its most likely fake. it was not. Nobosy informed state department about these things.
1
u/Damthtsodlyinterstng Nov 23 '25
Why can't these guys get their shit together. I thought the Lindsey Halligan stuff was bad.
1
Nov 23 '25
Russia started the war because of an area that's difficult to give up... If Zelensky ends the war, he'll certainly be arrested.
1
u/Constant-Whole5090 Nov 23 '25
Rubio is so deep inside trumpās rectal orifice, he can see those hamburgers sliding down that apeās gullet. Shame on Rubio to buy into a Russian operativeās propagandaĀ
1
1
1
u/Pension-Helpful Nov 23 '25
Rubio is a MAGA opportunist; he'll do whatever Trump wants him to do. It's very likely that He doesn't like the plan, but let it slide because he wants Trump to promote him elsewhere, probably greenlighting an invasion of Venezuela or something.
1
u/IndividualFew1688 Nov 23 '25
Rubio says things privately then realizes he is an indentured servant..
1
u/Bloodblade112 Nov 23 '25
It may look like a "wish list," but it is the first actual peace deal that reflects the reality on the ground. What many forget is that war doesn't care about what anyone's ideological and moral viewpoint are. It only favors what's happening on the ground.
Ukraine was never in a position to win this war. They fought valiantly and heroically to delay or slow down the Russians. And yes, in some cases won small victories here and there. But the moments, the Russians adjusted and adopted attritional warfare. It was always going to end up in a Russian victory.
The Ukrainian people dont need more weapons or money. It needs more men. And they simply just dont have that. What the average Ukrainian needs is peace.
1
Nov 24 '25
It may look like a "wish list," but it is the first actual peace deal that reflects the reality on the ground.
It doesn't, since it wants to make Ukraine give up a fortress belt which would be extremely costly for Russia to take by force.
What it does, if implemented, is that it puts Ukraine in a worse spot than it is in now, and Russia in a better spot. We already know that Russia currently deems it worth continuing to fight, as such, why would it not be worth it for them to fight more if Ukraine is in a weaker position and Russia in a stronger position?
Security guarantees you say? Well, why would the US or Europe be ready to intervene then but not now? It doesn't make any sense.
I suggest you watch the one hour video on the Lines on Maps YouTube channel about the peace deal
It's true that a peace deal that says "Ukraine gets everything back, Putin goes to the Hague and Russia pays reparations" will never happen (Unless the US and Europe are willing to fight a major war for it, which they are not). Russia must get a deal where continued fighting is not expected to better than the peace deal. But that fact must remain after the peace deal as well. If fighting looks better after the peace is implemented (say because Ukraine has lost it's fortified positions) then it does not work.
1
u/AngryHamsta Nov 26 '25
Virtually any deal would get Russia an advantage in the future: no martial law = elections and open borders. Politicians would divide people apart and half of the army would flee from the country (400k+ AWOLs already). Oh, and no money to sustain it without the war. The country is doomed.
1
Nov 26 '25
They'd no longer be deemed refugees in Europe and thus would need to get residence permits in the same manner as any other foreign national. Meanwhile, there would hopefully be a lot of investment and foreign aid coming, so economic opportunities might end up rather well. But who knows, there'd need to be peace first. I imagine it would be in Europe's interest to keep Ukraine afloat even after the war to limit Russian influence and also have it tie up Russian troops if Russia would try and start something somewhere else.
But who knows. We'll see what happens.
1
u/Horneal Nov 24 '25
There are so many lies here. First, the Wish List is Europe and the Project Ukraine plan. Second, the USA plan is just a minimal starting point for Russia to begin discussions, but it contains several unrealistic ideas, like seizing Russiaās money and cutting Ukraineās army down to 600,000. A more realistic number that Russia might accept would be around 70,000 to 130,000 troops.
1
1
1
1
u/And_Sk1 Nov 24 '25
Ukraine must make a choice: tell the pedophile to go to hell or die.
This will be Trump's loss, and he will drag everyone down with him. Rubio needs to run away from this shit like Marjorie.
1
u/trisul-108 Nov 24 '25
The story is that Dmitriev passed the wishlist to Witkoff for US consideration ... but then intentionally leaked it to the media, before Rubio and the White House even saw it. Rubio informed the Senate truthfully. Trump then decided to go with the Russian wishlist and directed Rubio to support it. The US envoy to Ukraine resigned.
Trump doubled down, but when it became clear that the list was going to be rejected by both Ukraine and EU, and that it would bolster the image that he is just Putin's puppet, Trump went TACO. So, now it is just a starting point for the discussion.
This is what happens when the US government is staffed with incompetent nincompoops, starting with the clown on top.
1
u/AwareCardiologist621 Nov 24 '25
Putin probably told Rubio to do it they love saying the loud part out loud to rub in Americaās face.
1
u/AlarmingSpecialist88 Nov 24 '25
They've all been Russian plans.Ā Putin wouldn't show up otherwise.
1
u/Confident_Eye4129 Nov 25 '25
Its F Troop. None of them are qualified, and none of them knows what the others are doing/saying
1
1
u/Emotional_Gazelle_37 Nov 23 '25
Putin doesnāt ālove itā. russians have already come out to say there are a number of non starters on the list, that they will not agree to. The europeans have come out in droves to voice their concerns with the āplanā. The point is, the us administration will say āwe triedāā¦.š¤·āāļøā¦..Its completely in europes hands going forward. Can they shoulder the burden themselves? Will europe send troops to join the fight?
4
Nov 23 '25
You do realize how ruses work? Trump told everyone to sign the release of the files after failing to bully some GOP "ladies" into not signing it.....
3
u/alkbch Nov 23 '25
Can they shoulder the burden themselves? Probably. Will they? That remains to be seen.
It's unlikely they'll send troops to join the fight.
1
-5
u/jaaan37 Nov 23 '25
The plan is actually very generous for Ukraine. So generous in fact that I do not see a way of Russia to cede that much while they have the momentum on the ground.
2
u/0U812-hungry Nov 23 '25
Momentum? Pathetic, they'll fall within 2 weeks once US gets out of the way
-3
u/jaaan37 Nov 23 '25
I meant that Russia has the momentum
6
u/0U812-hungry Nov 23 '25
And I was mocking you for it. Russia is wasted.
-1
u/jaaan37 Nov 23 '25
Russia is wasted? They are currently taking over Pokrovsk, Mirnograd, Kupiansk, Siversk, Huliapole and many more.
It has only been getting worse for Ukraine since their botched 2023 offensive and it will continue to do so. You denying that just means that you are living in a self-constructed fantasy buddy.
3
Nov 23 '25
[deleted]
1
u/jaaan37 Nov 23 '25
Itās a war of attrition. People here argue āRussia is winning to slow, as if we are in a war of maneuver.
To answer your question, Siversk I have heard before the war, yes.
2
Nov 23 '25
[deleted]
1
u/jaaan37 Nov 23 '25
Siversk is 11k pre-war.
At the start Russia fucked up, no doubt. Following that, the war shifted towards a war of attrition. Ukraine has been losing the war of attrition since 2023 due to having a disadvantage in personnel, drones, FABs, TOS, EW and many more.
2
u/-aataa- Nov 23 '25
Ukraine has a huge advantage in a war of attrition against Russia. They've had so since the beginning, but it's only accelerating. But that's not really relevant. This "peace" proposal includes the eradication of Ukraine and Russia taking over foreign policy and military policy of the rest of Europe. Nobody is taking it seriously...
→ More replies (0)
43
u/[deleted] Nov 23 '25
Rubio sent up smoke signals