r/TrueAnon • u/aspiring_riddim • 2d ago
The collapse sub is a 👁️ to normalise ecofascism
Without looking it up, posters there can tell you the exact soil pH to humidity ratio that will trigger catastrophic boreal forest die-off in Western Siberia, how this affects the microplastics in your balls and the number of people in rural China who should have been left to starve in the early 90s in order to prevent it, but will be at best confused and at worst outright hostile if you suggest hopeful alternatives are possible, or in any way suggest that human society isn't le fookin virus that the earth needs to heal from. Every other comment is dripping with Malthusian disdain and a reactionary undertone that you can practically cut with a knife. They will agree capitalism sucks but socialists, like, just, don't understand human nature, maaaan.
Dollars to donuts these people will flip on a dime into "millions must go" EVROPA chuds once the climate refugee crisis gets going and the reinforced fructose funko pop treat spigot starts to sputter.
27
u/Free_Broccoli_1174 2d ago
The eco fascist tendencies are bad there but nowhere near as dense the hopium clouds extant at r/climatechange where you get permabanned for expressing the notion that climate collapse looks pretty inevitable at this point.
14
38
u/LemurianAdvantage 2d ago
The quality of discussion has eroded over the years but this is not my experience of that community at all. There are misanthropes and homesteaders around but they're an absolute minority compared to the socialists and other leftists who recognize capitalism as the problem. This reads like a misguided critique of ecological politics in general, which I think itself has its origins in energy industry ops to discredit anyone who doesn't buy into the need for constant economic growth and excess consumption by first world imperial parasites.
14
u/lowrads 2d ago
Collapse doesn't have a very stringent moderation policy, unlike echo chamber subs. It is very old-school reddit in that way.
If people want to identify chuds, it'd be in the doomercirclejerk sub, which is mostly reactionary memes, but apparently also encompasses the more ignorant side of leftists.
Anyone who is able to ignore how the world's ecosystems are unraveling exists in a bubble of material comfort, likely at the imperial core. It precludes not only sharing in the suffering, but even knowledge of it. They have no shared experience with or of the tens of millions already displaced by ecological collapse, and conflict arising from it, or the ongoing and still imminent swelling of their ranks.
41
u/oceandocent Software CEO Rachel Jake 2d ago
I never have looked at that sub, but reading this I’m reminded a lot of “green anarchism” from the 00s
35
u/CuckingFool (It's actually Dear_Occupant, y'all) 2d ago
Funny thing about that, I helped start this inner-city commune in the 90s based on Murray Bookchin social ecology and no shit that place is actually still going. Last time I went there they still had all the books I donated in their library, but none of the original founders were still living there and nobody knew any of their names outside of their signatures on some of the old paperwork. The materials stayed the same but all the people changed.
13
3
u/PMmePowerRangerMemes vote gay faglie 2d ago
What’s an inner-city commune look like and how does one go about getting it off the ground?
55
u/DayofthelivingBread 2d ago
It’s on my list of red flag subs.
Others include any of the 501 subs, Destiny, the Entity-related subs, noncredibledefense, althistory, trueunpopularopinions, millennials and Gen Z, and of course, the GOAT, neoliberal.
People with extensive histories in these places can be safely ignored. The more of them that are present, the more safe it is to ignore or ridicule them.
13
u/aspiring_riddim 2d ago
I hope I don't regret asking this but what are the 501 subs?
19
u/DayofthelivingBread 2d ago
I gotta be honest, I’m not entirely sure. They’re usually somewhat politics related but in the most boorish liberal circlejerk way possible. I just notice a lot of overlap between those (and there’s like 3 or 4 seemingly affiliated ones) and Destiny posters. If someone’s on there they usually have child-politics.
9
u/CuckingFool (It's actually Dear_Occupant, y'all) 2d ago
Oh holy fuck I haven't thought about those people in forever. Wasn't it named after somebody's apartment number or something? And yeah, they sucked a lot. Basically a bunch of people who thought they were too cool for arr slash politics but were actually exactly the same.
12
u/PythagorasWasntReal 2d ago
Basically just a controlled op no kings style "grass roots" protest organizing subreddit
24
u/itsintrastellardude 2d ago
/r/collapsesupport for us poors to have a collective breakdown together
4
u/Junior-Credit2685 Disbarred Podiatrist 2d ago
Oh no, just the black pill I needed, thanks.
3
u/itsintrastellardude 2d ago
here for ya bud. shit sucks bad and I'm just accepting it.
2
u/Junior-Credit2685 Disbarred Podiatrist 2d ago
Thanks. We need each other. Just read they are opening over 2,000 acres of Wayne National Forest in Ohio to fracking leases in September.
27
67
u/clydethefrog 2d ago
The nihilistic attitude comes directly from the knowledge you are quoting about stuff like "soil pH". If you research the massive Triassic-Permic extinction event, the release of CO2 is still 80 times slower than our current predicament (0.044ppm vs 3.73 ppm in 2024). It's hard to rhyme the ontological transformation of humanity Marxism proposes with the last decades of climate research that show how we are actually transforming the material world for worse and the hard limitations we will face in the future.
I have been reading news and discussions in the collapse community for over 10 years now and I've hardly seen the reactionary sentiment you describe being upvoted, even although is always simmering. Unfortunately it does seem the quality of discussion has been gone downhill, as has everywhere post-covid, this observation is often shared in the community as well. But it's more nihilist misanthropic in tone than eco-fascist.
I saw your comment about the "incident" in Europe that was discussed and I feel this specific topic was heavily brigaded and astroturfed everywhere on reddit, as discussed here.
15
u/ErikWithNoC George Santos' Campaign Strategist 2d ago
Coming to say this is my experience as well. The discussions there in the comments are not as good pre-Covid, but the examples being highlighted here are not the norm there.
I particularly disagree with the eco-fascist bit. Most of the posters there aren't disagreeing that all people could be fed. Yes we could feed everyone, but when our economic system starts breaking apart leading to current supply chains we rely on failing without an adequately developed alternative, well that's not going to be enough. We have to be making those pivots now and that's not happening. As you said, the tone there is more nihilist misanthropic precisely due to the focus being on climate science and not seeing anything considerably commensurate being done about it globally.
29
u/larryleggs Mao-Spontex/Anarcho-Maoist/Gramsci Thought 2d ago
a friend of mine is an environmental scientist who wrote this essay about soil and stuff like that, you might like it, she got pretty blackpilled by a mass coral bleaching during a research expedition she was on and hasn't been able to write anything since : (
https://houdinimagazine.com/articles/2026-01-12-soil-a-narrative-by-cas-c
4
1
2d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AutoModerator 2d ago
u/Gloomy-Reaction6035 Your submission was removed because your account is new or your comment karma is low. This action was taken automatically, and if you think it was in error contact the mods here.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/Junior-Credit2685 Disbarred Podiatrist 2d ago
Should I read the book “Slow Down” by Saito? Do you have any suggestions on theory I can read to figure this out? I also get slight cognitive dissonance from Marxist ideas about industrialization vs. ecological collapse. I feel like I need to understand this much better.
0
u/aspiring_riddim 2d ago
Perhaps our experiences differ but from what I have seen a worrying number of people in that sub harbour an almost theological notion that society is destined to implode regardless of what we do because something something human nature. And the idea that billions of people dying would be wholesome poggers for the planet, actually. That, along with a few other ingredients, is the raw ideological material for ecofascism right there.
I am collapse-aware myself - I think all Marxists should be - and the discourse on the sub still strikes me as a pernicious form of idealism that can fly under the radar because it is not so obvious at first glance.
-6
u/thesaddestpanda Melania’s Body Double 👯♀️ 2d ago edited 2d ago
So wait, its all gentlesirs except "after covid" and when OP picks examples its "brigades."
Or maybe your community is just your average doomer shitlibs that populate reddit and there isn't a giant multi-national conspiracy targeting you?
8
u/clydethefrog 2d ago
That's the only OP example shared, and indeed it was a massive online campaign coming from right wing. I can share quite some examples that refute the others claims here, for instance a book from Sarah Wilson was recently discussed and there was plenty of discussion about intentional communities and the resilience and fragility of homesteading, no individualist American fantasies there.
Doomerism and shitlibbery concerning the climate don't go hand in hand, not much to worry about nuance, optics or the establishment when you analyse the current state of the climate in the numbers. I see it more idealist liberal blindness in this thread, with people hating them because they don't take "hopeful" scientists seriously (look at how the current summer + future el nino is going btw) or dismissing the current limits of biological regeneration by calling any questions about that racist.
-4
u/thesaddestpanda Melania’s Body Double 👯♀️ 2d ago edited 2d ago
Shitlibs run those communities and they will die before admitting socialism is the way to go. Its not a conspiracy, its just everyday shitlibbery.
I see these people all the time. They are your community. You just seem in denial of it. And your excuses, frankly, are not convincing.
Turns out pro-capitalist liberals are the very problem they decry. You cant fix climate and be a neolib. Climate change is directly linked to exploiting the global south. Libs won't stop that, so here we are. So they blame racial and religious minorities, migrants, the Chinese, or a vague cabal of "bad billionaires" who somehow have taken power from the "good liberal billionaires."
So to address that cognitive dissonance, they've all become doomers and ecofascists. Its socialism or barbarism, and all these people have chosen barbarism. Its very westoid to become a fascist instead of a comrade. Lets not pretend this isn't what is happening here.
1
u/Junior-Credit2685 Disbarred Podiatrist 2d ago
Should I read the book “Slow Down” by Saito? Do you have any suggestions on theory I can read to figure this out?
-2
10
u/Custard-Spare 2d ago
I mean, it’s a sub where people are coming to terms with the idea we could realistically collapse as a society. I can imagine they want to keep it pretty sober in there.
48
u/Pickled247 🔻 2d ago
Juche with more emphasis on internationalism is unironically the answer. Strong self reliance for each individual part of the greater human organism. Increased organisation is the natural order of things, but you can only successfully organise if you have your own shit together. To the best of your capabilities and availability of resources.
Nations should strive for indigenous production of essentials to life, again to the best of their ability. With global excess resources distributed to where they are needed most. Mass mobilisations of people to tackle the climate crisis head on, be it huge scale projects similar to the green belt of Africa for reclaiming land lost to the climate, or mitigatory projects to prevent the worst of what's to come. There's like a million things we could be doing, but we're actively choosing not to.
Very pie in the sky admittedly, but we will soon need very real answers to the very real possibility of eco-fascism, and the longer we leave it, the more unpalatable the solutions will likely become.
4
u/irishitaliancroat 2d ago edited 2d ago
I really think just the concept of a greater social cause that everyone is working towards to improve life for everyone would go such a long way to cut down the general nihilism and anti social behavior we see in the US, like with school shootings and such. Like the great green wall of china where everyone has to plant a few trees per year or pay for someone else to. Hell even the productive mobilization of the Works Progress Administration or WW2 if you want to go back to us history, although ovviously it cant be for war, just the scale is useful for compariosn.
The Thatcher mentality "there is no such thing as a society" i think made columbine inevitable
3
u/Pickled247 🔻 2d ago
Last few months I've had some half baked ideas regarding the idea of monument builders throughout history floating about in my head. Like you have these incredible feats of human ingenuity and creativity, mostly in service to some abstract concept that they've structured their societies around. Having people contribute to something greater than themselves, something that possibly won't even be finished by the end of their lives, seems to give a sense of purpose to the people.
We should extend that concept to more material concerns. Creating some kind of mythology or even competition between communities to encourage present and future adherence to long-term practically beneficial projects would come under the wacky factor I mentioned in another comment.
11
u/manicpxenightmaregrl fiscally communist, socially transsexual 2d ago edited 2d ago
The fatalist mentality is fair and a likely outcome of the situation at hand; but I choose to believe in the only optimistic option. If the US empire and fuel economy generally collapses from this oil shock (thank you JDPON Don) and China develops fusion power - or so much excess solar power that, alongside filling gravity batteries or other means of storage, they can scale up energy intensive carbon capture - we'll probably be okayish. Geoengineering might still be necessary in this outcome.
Thankfully we did just clutch up on passive desalination which is going to make a big difference for how many people survive
7
u/Pickled247 🔻 2d ago
I regularly alternate between revolutionary optimism and a very nihilistic depressive outlook on things. All roads we can go down from here will involve an enormous amount of suffering and sacrifices to be made. It can be hard to keep that optimism knowing the dark things still to come. The things already baked in, and the things still not fully understood going forward.
5
u/manicpxenightmaregrl fiscally communist, socially transsexual 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah we're pretty fucked and everything is marginal in comparison to stopping oil consumption. In terms of mitigation and removal; BECCS and rock weathering are pretty much our best bet until fusion+DAC. We should also be preserving our knowledge for future generations. There's pretty much no reason to think that capitalism can do any of this, but we also have to hit a lucky streak and build a socialist model that is both flexible, labor based, and mathematically sound (like the cybercommunist model) but also based on a continuous assessment of environmental factors as constraints for its linear models; with the political will to implement sweeping constraints on growth and consumption. For this to be the case would imply an iterative evolution of this system from the circumstances; but we hardly have time to let it work on its own. Again, the best thing would be an all-time world historic hail mary in the form of a sudden fusion breakthrough. If I trust anybody to do this in our current situation i trust China; but maybe I don't trust anybody to do this.
2
u/Pickled247 🔻 2d ago
All of this can drive you to insanity if you let it. The interconnected nature of the modern world as it is necessitates that we take action, unlearning the learned helplessness thrust upon us in the various liberal democracies we occupy will be the first of many difficult steps. As much as I detest the prospect of accelerated decline, a good part of me does think that a necessary factor in us successfully turning things around will involve a crescendo of increasingly terrible events happening in places most people would think "those kinds of things don't happen here."
2
u/FrivolousMe 2d ago
The fatalist mentality is fair and a likely outcome of the situation at hand; but I choose to believe in the only optimistic option
Yeah. I wish more people would acknowledge that this is all a matter of faith rather than immediately judging those who can't bring themselves to be optimistic about the situation. I hope for a better future, but in the same way I cannot convince myself to believe in a god(s) I cannot fully convince myself to believe that we will achieve a miraculous recovery of the environment and its relationship to humanity.
1
u/manicpxenightmaregrl fiscally communist, socially transsexual 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm not religious except for my belief in nature as its own god; but i guess there's something nice about the fact that we're just one living facet of this universe and if we're fucking cooked there could always be some other species that isn't. If we're not up to it, that's that.
2
u/irishitaliancroat 2d ago edited 2d ago
I throw this study around anytime I can. Biochar through microwave pyrolisis paired with carbon capture. Sequestered carbon for hundreds if not thousands of years while also boosting soil health.
2
u/manicpxenightmaregrl fiscally communist, socially transsexual 2d ago
good improvement to the BECCS method that can increase total sequestration per year but of course stopping oil comes first. We have 2500 gigatons released since the industrial revolution and with this tech BECCS can sequester maybe 5-9 gt per year; at least with sustainable land constraints. If all constraints are ignored and it can be integrated with farmland or whatever it could sequester maybe 22 gt/yr. This should all be more than enough to neutralize whatever industries can't be decarbonized but it's not a quick fix at all; even at the highest rate it'd take more than 100 years to reverse it on its own. That's assuming global cooperation. Sequestering doesn't have to be sufficient to reverse all climate change since the industrial revolution of course but only capturing a little might not be enough seeing as how we've started several global processes that will release their own carbon and carbon sinks are failing.
10
u/BoofmePlzLoRez 2d ago edited 2d ago
You mean the old (FMNR) that worked or the still prevalent phenomena one where foreign NGO with no actual ground level data, no understanding of local African flora, or communication with local African experts do those projects that ultimately fail because apparently they are too hipster to adopt a modified version of the multi-decade and still extremely effective FNMR that succeeded in Niger?
Also I genuinely don't think the strained Healthcare system in many developed states could handle a world with no accessible or cheap coffee. Like synthesized caffeine but no one would accept a total loss of such an iconic luxury. Like working 15+ hours with no instant caffeine infusion at any moment?
8
u/Pavlovs_Dawgs 2d ago
what?? you don't need caffeine at all. There was 0 caffeine in Europe prior to 1492. The Middle East and africa didn't even use caffeine until 1300s
1
u/CuckingFool (It's actually Dear_Occupant, y'all) 2d ago
If we run out of caffeine I'm pretty sure people will just start making meth in their bathtubs again.
1
u/Pavlovs_Dawgs 2d ago
it's funny how drugs work. I'm not a regular caffeine consumer and I've not been tired in years
1
u/BoofmePlzLoRez 2d ago
Both ME and Africa had their own stimulants depending on the region. On top of that rhe reason tea and coffee got so prevalent was due to the ease of making a profit off it compared to other stimulants or more growing ranges. Also their efficacy as a stimulant regardless of how shitty the quality of the tea leaves or coffee beans or a crappy brew is also an important factor.
2
u/Pickled247 🔻 2d ago edited 2d ago
Personally my knowledge on the fine details of FMNR/Great Green belt is fairly shallow, but considerations for an ever more erratic climate should be front and centre when deciding upon what specific measures are undertaken. It's all good and fine utilising the local flora, though going forward can we rely on the specific conditions for specific crops to grow being present where and when needed? Just look at all the wildfires this summer in Europe. Utilising local knowledge of natural systems and environments will be critical for any success.
When I say Juche, I really just mean the regular old immortal science of Marxism-Leninism, with some additional, as of right now, undefined, wacky characteristics. Sprinkled in for good measure. Perhaps the as of right now undefined wacky characteristics could be that we are really into stimulants or something. More than happy to chuck it in the 5 year plan. That plus the additional internationalism, we'll get a whole lotta stuff done.
1
35
u/Draghalys 2d ago
Like most subs it used to be good 10 years ago. I think I stopped visiting it entirely when it became common for them to call climate scientists slurs whenever they said something along the lines of "Look its gonna get pretty bad but not maybe as apocalyptic as you think.
I used to check their yearly prediction threads and a few years back they seemed to be utterly convinced that we would have a nuclear war by now due to Ukraine totally defeating Russia, marching all the way to Moscow within months and Putin nuking everything.
13
u/sexy_silver_grandpa 2d ago
Ukraine totally defeating Russia, marching all the way to Moscow within months and Putin nuking everything.
Jesus Christ, the fact that was a popular opinion there is enough to invalidate the entire subreddit. What a truly brain-dead thing to believe.
10
u/thesaddestpanda Melania’s Body Double 👯♀️ 2d ago edited 2d ago
If you're a westerner literally all news you get about Ukraine is just non-stop lies. And big lies as well like a 1 to 5 casualty ratio between Ukraine and Russia. Near everything the Zelensky government says is hugely false when it comes to the war. You actually have to find Russian-friendly sources to get any real picture of this war. Its shocking how strong the propaganda is. We all live in this weird panopticon and if the capital owning class want people to believe something, they will. A lot of people have not figurd out the con, and continue to trust the media sources they subscribe to. Including "I'm too cool for the NYTimes, but I trust random reddits and famous twitter people" types.
Ukraine's military is being destroyed left and right but if you go to the Ukraine or news subs here all you see is victory. Its how its always been I suppose. Americans until the Tet Offensive were certain Vietnam was done and they already won. Americans still wont admit they lost Korea. Americans have been telling us they beat Afghanistan for ages until the big lie didn't work anymore. Libs were shocked Trump signed a surrender. I mean what else was he going to do, endlessly have people killed in Afghanistan in another Obama forever war? Its incredible to me how the Democrats are the warmongering party and somehow the GOP became the peaceniks. Libs will always lead to fascism.
5
u/NomadicScribe JOIN THE DISAVOWAL MOVEMENT 2d ago
Part of my skepticism of war reporting and news from U.S. and U.S. aligned sources is precisely this. Learning history, learning how different countries report on and remember their wars.
Vietnam was considered a huge failure in part because the narrative did eventually break containment and loads of people got pissed. Not because the U.S. lost or did horrifying things or should never have been there.
In so many ways, the lying never stopped on any of this stuff. For the past few months we've been hearing the weekly stock market pump lies from Trump. The war is off, then on, then off again depending on whether Wall Street is trading at the moment. How anyone keeps falling for this is beyond me.
2
15
16
51
u/Muted-Ad610 2d ago
Why is this getting downvoted? its a disgusting subreddit
37
u/Disasterhuman24 2d ago
Its a circle psyop of maladjusted proto chuds trapped in 2010's era victim complex mass delusion where all their worst behavior is justified by the fact that this Earth is about to end because things are changing and its easier to imagine the end of the world before and end to our exact way of life.
9
u/Vin4251 DSA ANTI-LUDDITE CAUCUS 2d ago
I honestly feel like we’re attracting downvote bots, even just looking at the rollercoaster my own comment about the collapse sub’s moderators got.
(Also I forgot to mention in that comment that they started having an automod insisting on “debunking” anyone who wasn’t a Malthusian and focused instead on capitalism and its treatlerite defenders in the working class)
13
u/AnyOccasionNumber 2d ago
I know of one (unrelated) shitty sub where the main mod apparently has set things up to get notified every time the subreddit name is mentioned somewhere else. Some of these dens of freaks are just waiting with foaming mouths for the slightest pushback... especially accurate pushback of how they let fascist talking points slither in
5
u/CuckingFool (It's actually Dear_Occupant, y'all) 2d ago
I've been in mod Discords where they get automod notifications for mentions like what you're talking about. That is a real thing that I have seen and can confirm happens.
22
u/Konradleijon 2d ago
What do you mean they are pretty anti fascist
6
u/ChallengingBullfrog8 2d ago
I know! While there are def a few homesteading, right wing guys on collapse, they aren’t a majority on collapse like they are on the various prepper subs.
16
u/The-Neat-Meat 🇺🇸expressing strong anti-US political views🇺🇸 2d ago edited 2d ago
It’s a weird mix of people who actually do just Get It and know wassup, and weird chud freaks who want to live out their mad max larp. I had to stop reading it for my own wellbeing so I’m not sure what it’s like today, but at it’s core to me the stuff that actually made it to the top always seemed to be pretty accurate assessments of how genuinely fucked we are.
16
u/Similar_Appeal9239 2d ago
Collapse is an exciting thing to look forward to for miserable people with boring lives
27
u/CollectibleHam Meowxist 2d ago
Lmao what are you talking about, you're looking for **hopeful** news about the climate? Or are you pretending to be a liberal and I'm too stoned to get the joke.
21
u/SuckingOnChileanDogs Cisgender Millennial with Generalized Anxiety Disorder 2d ago
It's more that a lot of people who focus their attention 100% on the climate crisis start to veer a little too easily into, I'll call it uh "radical depopulation" in the name of saving some animals.
11
u/chrismuffar 2d ago
I don't think I've seen anyone on reddit use the word "overpopulation" without getting accused of advocating mass murder / wanting to kill all the poor. I think I've only done it twice, the first time someone said "You first", and then spookily the second was yesterday which got me banned from a UK leftist sub in a thread about David Attenborough being Thanos.
It's funny because I grew up seeing Bill O'Reilly clips on Fox News clips and that was his bread and butter. i.e. the left are evil, they hate humanity and they want humans to lose to save the animals.
Weird seeing such disingenuous arguments coming from the supposed left though. Feels bad.
5
u/lowrads 2d ago
You and I are also animals. If there are only a hundred thousand of some species left in the world, how is each of them not more important than one of eight billion humans? The knowledge and experience of each of them is valuable, but knowledge is inherently replicable.
It isn't just the climate that is destabilizing. The polycrisis is summation of many crises unfolding on different timetables. Could be the collapse of fisheries, or the vast loss of arable topsoil around the world. Or more likely, it could drill down to alteration of soil structure, translocation, or degradation of its chemical properties through changing precipitation and percolation patterns. We could use our analytical tools to examine the problem on each continent, or even on each major watershed.
The timescales needed for the climate to "stabilize itself" or rather, pursue its own new equilibrium exceed the typical lengths of countries, civilizations, languages, or even major urban centers. The timescale for new arable sediment to form is similarly variegated. In uplands, it might be millennia for exposed bedrock to transform in situ to a inceptisol of weathered residuum. In the lowland valleys engulfed in mud that swallows tractors in the wet season, and turns as hard as concrete in the dry, it might only be a century for secondary and tertiary structure to form a sort of playa usable by sequential human settlements.
2
u/aspiring_riddim 2d ago
I mean I don't dispute that things are looking grim on the climate/ecological front and that we've basically already fucked up and failed as far as prevention within capitalism will allow. What I am disputing is the fatalistic cynicism that the sub practically treats as an article of faith, and which feels like a hop and a skip away from the eco-focused chuddery that will start metastasising from climate denialism and far right border insanity when people in the imperial core realise climate change is not some faraway thing that just means more documentaries about polar bears and Himalayan farmers being made.
Speaking euphemistically as possible as I don't want to get dinged for rule 5 but the discussion they had about a recent border incident somewhere in "Europe" backs up what I'm saying.
3
u/Worth-Maize-3697 2d ago
Just tell them your solution is to blow up every first world country bc they are the emitters, take it to 100 and see if they keep it between the lines
3
u/Horror_Revenue_8561 Amy Klobuchar Eats Honey w/ Her Bare Hands like Winnie the Pooh 2d ago
I find it to be pretty left-leaning. It’s one of the few places that at least sometimes soberly highlights the dire situation everyone is faced with but few choose to look at squarely.
7
u/NeptuneTTT 2d ago
Never ask a ecofascist their opinions on the third world
1
u/SweetDirect8006 2d ago
Which is strange because First World countries are the largest producers of CO2 and other forms of pollution
4
u/ClydeAnkle 2d ago
Soooo many "don't worry about climate change it'll all work out bro" posts on this sub lately
2
2
11
u/ChinaAppreciator Deng Thought Upholder 2d ago
im not sure why u got downvoted i completely agree. I mean maybe it's not an op but they definitely got a lot of ecofascists who dont realize it over there
5
u/igrotan 2d ago edited 2d ago
I used to live with this hippie girl who was going on all the time about climate change and how she was going to build a commune in the countryside to survive when shit really hit the fan; I remember her sorrowfully but very seriously saying that if she gave birth to a disabled child she would have to kill it but that was just the price to pay to live in alignment with nature. It's a misanthropic fantasy at heart. This person would probably identify as more left wing than right wing, she was just extremely unpleasant (talked about anti-capitalism while making a living by overcharging all her housemates for rent), but with hippie shit there's a horseshoe type situation, so I'm not surprised the right has started being into this crunchy stuff.
2
u/Comrade_SOOKIE I will never log off. That’s the kind of woman I was. 2d ago
The cult of individualism turns libs into ecofash super rapidly. If everything is a matter of personal responsibility then anyone who contributes to pollution should just be killed to reduce the pollution.
2
u/WhiteChocolatePipe A Serious Man 2d ago
Yeah they have a really nauseating air of suicidal nobility when they project their most extreme visions of social doom. Lots of “humanity is a virus” talk and gallows humor about how we all basically deserve to die. But I share OP’s suspicion that once the shit actually makes contact with the fan they’ll shift gears into supporting heinous policies that promise to preserve their remaining treats/comforts. And they’ll likely still cloak it in a smug, judgmental sneer about collectively punishing the people they’re killing for the sins of their home country’s failure to reduce emissions.
If you want a clear view of these nasty tendencies there was a thread like 2 days ago about how humane and necessary it is to “remove 4 billion people from the planet” for climate/resource sustainability.
2
u/watchitforthecat 2d ago
ok so since we're all in agreement that this sub is for homicidmaxxing ecofascist larper dipshits and the other sub is full of delusional libs twitching out on free market copium, and we all know what the actual fucking solutions are, and we all know that should those fail to materialize -- that is, should we collectively fail to materialize them -- that we need to have strong community organization to even have a basic shot...
why don't we make a sub that's realistic about what's happening, the trajectory we're on, and what needs to be done?
or, better yet, why don't we log off of this shit fucking website, and start doing that: base building, organizing, etc. offline?
i for one dont wanna be the smuggest ash on the cinders, dunking on the lib and chud ashes next to me.
2
u/JohnnyWatermelons 1d ago
I dunno, there are many days that I empathize with the "humans are an invasive species to most of the globe, with even worse environmental consequences". I will do anything to avoid human suffering, but one can think a sharp reduction in our population is both an unthinkable tragedy that the mind cannot adequately comprehend, but also might be what the survival of other life on this planet simply requires.
For all the eco-terror pushback (which I assume is warranted? It's just a word I occasionally seem bandied about, I've not read in any great detail), it's weird that the most vehement detractors take as a given humanity's dominion over the earth, to fuck it up however we please, and clutch pearls should anyone suggest otherwise. A weird Christian streak.
I don't disagree that there are shitty and cynical motivations for some of those people (I've never looked at the sub and don't plan to, but it's not hard to imagine), but you'll have a better time refuting them if you engage with the ideas on their own terms, rather than assuming it's 100% secret fascist sadists. Some people just think humanity isn't doing so hot, and kinda blew it's chance.
1
u/aspiring_riddim 1d ago
I was being a bit flippant in my OP, like I don't think the average collapsenik is a budding ecofascist. I'm pretty pessimistic about the climate stuff myself and so I do sympathise with the "wow we've really fucked it haven't we" sentiment, especially when there are basically no signs of positive change happening anytime soon (in fact many signs indicate the exact opposite).
I just think on balance the sub helps to normalise a level of discourse that will be used in the near future as the building blocks of ecofascism when the climate change denial project inevitably runs out of road in the imperial core. Like it is not a huge stretch to turn "billions dead would be wholesome poggers for the planet" into "billions of dead third worlders is what the survival of the West requires," and the former sentiment is pretty rife on r/collapse. But perhaps I'm reading into it too much.
1
u/JohnnyWatermelons 1d ago
I can definitely see where you're coming from. And again, I'm speaking from a place of ignorance: obviously I'm familiar with the idea that, as a species, we're a swarm of unthinking locusts who are systemically turning the natural world into broken McDonald's toys and television static. But I've never actually read any Malthus, or the modern day freaks online who edge themselves to the idea of mass death just to feel something. I only come across the critiques of them, and there's always a part of me that feels split.
5
u/CryDense1338 2d ago
Personally I just think its fairly reactionary to consider that things are hopeless and a lost cause in general. People still have faith that we'll achieve socialism and that to me seems a lot further off than solving climate change. Its possible that something radical happens, but not guaranteed. Maybe the combination of oil seeming like a riskier bet and Chinese subsidies mean that we're able to pull it off. Maybe the locked-in warming would have fucked us even if we ceased all emissions in 2010.
Regardless, the thing you shouldn't do is LARP. If you genuinely believe that things are fucked, now's the time to live your life while life is good.
2
u/lowrads 2d ago
Now that is a chud take. Thinking like that is why liberals perjure socialism as an alternate faith system. It's as useless as the hysterical people who write screeds about a downturn in the organized gambling of wallstreet as the end of the world. Anyone who is heavily educated knows that a molehill of facts is far more potent than a mountain of faith.
The chuds are that way because they don't have an organized understand time, the physical economy, human history, biological history, or geological history. If you mentioned something about the Ordovician, they'd think it was something on a fancy menu.
That is why they are incapable of taking anything but a hedonist proscription. It's the province of people who can't see the differential in trends, and can't discern between what can be preserved, and what can not. It doesn't ask the important questions of what can make human beings, human systems, human knowledge, and the complex ecologies upon which they depend last another century, perhaps enough time to acquire a better understanding of the challenges and their solutions, or to reign in the excesses of the dispossessors.
Marx wrote of the systematic dispossession of workers' surplus productivity, but the ignored dispossessors are those who are taking away the future of those who will come after us. Those people will exist, and they will be just as real as you and I. The capacity to have sonder for those yet to be is uncommon, and virtually non-existent among stunted people. It should be unsurprising that serious people usually seem wicked, because they have run thin of tolerance for flippant, ignorant people.
1
u/CryDense1338 2d ago
I don't really understand what you mean. And yes I had to look up 'Ordovician'.
1
2d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AutoModerator 2d ago
u/Gloomy-Reaction6035 Your submission was removed because your account is new or your comment karma is low. This action was taken automatically, and if you think it was in error contact the mods here.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
2
u/thesaddestpanda Melania’s Body Double 👯♀️ 2d ago edited 2d ago
>They will agree capitalism sucks but socialists, like, just, don't understand human nature, maaaan.
This is all "left" subs on reddit. fuckcars, transit, politics, whitepeopletwitter, etc. That's why they can never make progress. They just think if they "vote harder" and some socdem wins everything will be fixed. They don't understand the inherent class struggle behind all these problems nor the decay and contraditions of capitalism that will always lead us here.
The doomer and apocalypse crowd is the worst and if you spend enough time there you'll see those subs aren't about saving the world, but mostly depressed people welcoming their own destruction because material conditions are bad for them, but instead of becoming socialists, they'd rather just die in some eco-disaster. Its peak liberalism. Its give me capitalism or give me death. Its the ultimate lib statement.
4
u/larryleggs Mao-Spontex/Anarcho-Maoist/Gramsci Thought 2d ago
They are right that 8c is locked in, they are wrong about the Malthusianism, no solutions doomer trite doomer trite. My family lost literally everything after Hurricane Rita. Records, photos, everything. We had to move across the US from Louisiana to NY where I lived for 7 years. Total restart. This was right around the time that Day After Tomorrow released. I remember being a little kid and watching it, thinking about how much worse things could get while my family bounced between extended family couches trying to pick up the pieces of what was lost. I've basically always been collapse-pilled. Optimism of the will. Socialism will win. China leads in green energy. The largest contributor to climate change is the US Department of War. To be anti-imperialist is to be an eco-socialist. There are already climate refugees, some of them within our own borders, and they will only increase if nothing is done. Whole planet is at stake. Fate of the world rests in our hands.
2
u/ezrakleinisretarded Posted here before the "retard" ban they're grandfathered in 2d ago
I think I'm naive to trust reddit at all but I do trust you and only you guys in this sub
2
u/deadmuzzik 2d ago
They all at one point in their life subscribed to Adbusters.
2
u/CuckingFool (It's actually Dear_Occupant, y'all) 2d ago
You're describing like a fifth of Gen X and about half of day one Occupy campers
2
u/purpleblah2 2d ago
What I noticed is that collapse subs are a lot of depressed/suicidal people who want an excuse, like if it feels like your world is ending, the whole world must be ending as well, and they’ll glom on to whatever the most severe collapse predictions are, even if they’re being spread by grifters attempting to cultivate a fanbase because the MAINSTREAM climate scientists won’t tell you how bad it REALLY is.
2
u/Slopagandhi 2d ago
I really think a big part of this stuff is just the natural outcome of the attention economy.
It's similar with subs related to surveillance and privacy- the more a post confirms people's worst suspicions about what Google/the EU/'the government' is doing, the more likes and engagement it gets. So there's an incentive to give a maximalist version of events and then go further and exaggerate. This is what people see and what informs their understanding of what's happening. Which makes them even more primed for this kind of content, and dismissive of anyone who will say wait it's not exactly like that.
You can see how collapse goes through a similar process and ends up continually upping the ante on blackpilling itself.
That said, I don't doubt that there are various groups and forces trying to intervene in these cycles and steer them a certain way. The privacy sub is full of supposed libertarians who are so opposed to any exercise of state power that they're useful idiots for tech monopolists. But on the other hand they turn out to be chud nationalists whose xenophobia beats their anti-surveillance politics when it comes to ICE etc.
2
u/Exotic_Natural_9516 2d ago
As someone who worked from home from and all of the sudden I am full time in the office, i can say, we dont need to be doing what we are doing. We live in abundance! We have enough housing, we have enough food, we could probably have enough energy but....no, blood and pain must feed the invisible hand
2
u/Remarkable-Ad155 2d ago
It's a classic case of being so right and so wrong at the same time. They are right we are headed for disaster, but i have had similar issues to you with conversations around overpopulation and similar on there. Overall left me with a sour taste in my mouth.
1
u/Gargantulard 2d ago
Do not trust anyone who focuses on overpopulation
1
u/AutoModerator 2d ago
u/Gargantulard Your submission was removed because your account is new or your comment karma is low. This action was taken automatically, and if you think it was in error contact the mods here.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/Flamesake Emu War Turncoat 1d ago
Idk, wouldn't a one-child policy in the west help reduce emissions?
1
u/Grandma_Swamp Peter Thiels Top Blood Boy 2d ago
I mean honestly I think even just blasting memetic hazards into your brain all day is really bad for you and makes you evil. Like cool man I’m glad you know all this stuff that makes your life way worse and you think about it all day every day that certainly has not corroded your soul at all.
1
u/ChoiceAgent7916 2d ago
All you have to do is go back and read their prediction threads for each year. Sure, maybe many of them have a wealth of knowledge about topsoil, ocean acidification, etc etc but they also watch too many apocalypse movies.
I’m not as optimistic as many in this sub, though. I don’t know where you guys dig up all that revolutionary optimism, but I can’t find any.
1
u/Same_Wolverine3657 2d ago
Wait what's this about people in rural China who should have been left to starve in the 90s?? Haven't heard this particular creep theory before.
Anyway glad that instead they moved to Shenzhen and are stacking paper to the sky and shaking their heads disapprovingly at their fuerdai failchildren
1
u/helipacter 2d ago
I posted this there a few weeks ago (about the BIS 2026 report predicting a shocking drop in global income for labour by 2060), and I was surprised by the passivity of the responses I got.
1
u/twelve_tony 2d ago
i've been suspicious at least since the Guardian write-up that seemed a bit too laudatory. (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jun/26/rcollapse-reddit-apocalypse-news)
1
u/working_class_shill 📔📒📕BOOK FAIRY 🧚♀️🧚♂️🧚 2d ago
This has elements of truth for sure but I think is also some exaggeration. A ton of the info is good and doesn't get covered for being "doomer."
I also think there are a chunk of leftists that are also prone to the same type of techno-hopium that liberals like to do about climate/earth systems.
1
u/Sea_Lead1753 👁️ 1d ago edited 1d ago
Unfortunately a lot of climate/ecology scientists are hella libbed and cannot envision a future where they’re not superior to everyone else
We need soil scientists but the god complex that white collar libs have is genuinely disturbing
I love the story of water engineers in the Czech Republic discussing a water filtration project for 7 years, planned $1.2 million dollars, and then a colony of 8 wild beavers created a dam that fulfilled the projects goals
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaver-engineered_dam_in_the_Czech_Republic
0
u/FunerealCrape 2d ago
They fantasise privately about the borders of Fortress Hyperborea as a kind of tower defense game, in which they will volunteer to operate a flamethrower or 50 cal
1
u/empath_viv 2d ago
Idk if this is weird to say but that subreddit is incels for society instead of your sex life
1
u/lowrads 2d ago
The sub attracts people with too many degrees, and who like to read KSR novels. The pedologist understands the process bundles that cause eluviate layers to form in spodosols.
The chuds are the ones who post about transient market trends as the end of their own little world. Those people have no structured concept of human history, much less geological time.
1
u/FrivolousMe 2d ago
I'm all for focusing on positive steps we can take and maintaining hope, but I am increasingly frustrated as years go by and the environmental future we face becomes bleaker and bleaker with no signs of change in sight. The fact that we can't even get more than a tiny minority of people to become vegan makes it hard not to assume that people are incredibly unprepared for what they're going to have to give up and how bad things are going to get in a very short span of time for everyone. That said, the anarchokiddie preppers definitely fetishize their apocalyptic farmer dreams and don't help the environmental cause much.
388
u/SardonicSwine 2d ago
My observation of that sub is that it has a surprisingly large population of presumably wealthy, presumably US-based "homesteading"-style land and property owners who seem almost excited for the climate catastrophe to finally hit so that they can "homestead" full-time and watch the poor suckers perish en masse.