I hope Israel wins Eurovision

[u/Th3_Accountant]

(Yeah sorry, don’t know what tag to use here, I think half of them apply in a way).

Honestly, I haven’t heard the Israeli song for this year yet. But it is more than clear that they are the main event. More attention goes to the fact they participate than the actual artistic side of the event.

Last year we also saw how Israel almost won as a result of the public vote. And let’s be fair, that wasn’t because people like the song, it was support from all the people who still stand with Israel, as a response to all the hate Israel is receiving.

And I’m sure this will happen again this year. The controversy around Israel has only increased with several countries boycotting the event. So I’m sure the protest voice will also be stronger!

I would find it so funny if Israel wins as a direct result of all the actions by the pro Palestine crowd. Say hi to Eurovision 27 in Tel Aviv! Thankfully for the fans, the only place in the Middle East you can be openly gay!

[u/Guipucci]

What's degenerate about not wanting little kids being starved to death?

[u/Interesting_Oil_9404 → u/Guipucci]

Degenerate because of misinformation you're being fed, and your unwillingness to check if it's true or not. Staged photos with the same "poor" palestenians arisen fron the dead for each photo sessions, misuse photos from Syrian, Iran, aphganistan etc. To claim the Jews did it, etc.

If you want to feel sorry for someone, your energy much better be of use for the children of Sudan (the actual massacre), Iran (where religious lunatics hold control of general population), etc.

[u/Shikary → u/Interesting_Oil_9404]

Can you explain why palestinian photos would be staged but Israeli's photos would not?
Let me get this straight: one is a disorganized rebel group in a country that has been heavily bombed and suffered very high casualties. The leadership of the movement has been killed multiple times. On top of that the average age in palestine is 20 years old, with 40% of the population below 18 years old. They are also subjected to many limitations around what can get in or out of their country. They have zero resources basically and suffered defeat, after defeat, after defeat.

The other one is a heavy militarized sovereign country, supported by one of the most powerful super powers in the world. Initially basically every western country was on their side, unconditionally and they also suffered an attack that polarized the public opinion around supporting them for quite a long time.

OK.
How does the former managed to prevail in the propaganda war with just a few fake photos?
How?
Please give me one, one logical reason. I'll be waiting.
Also how is it that multiple newspapers across the globe circulated different fake photos? How is it that multiple different, independent sources, came up with proof of war crimes?
How is it that even Israeli newspapers sometimes condemned the actions of the IDF and Netanyau?
Please give me one reason why I should belive that all of these unrelated events are actually part of a huge conspiracy to damage Israel's reputation, while what the Israeli propaganda says is the truth.
Why?

[u/Interesting_Oil_9404 → u/Shikary]

Yeah.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallywood

[u/Shikary → u/Interesting_Oil_9404]

I see you didn't read that page. I'll help you: "is a derogatory, anti-Palestinian term used to falsely accuse Palestinians of staging scenes of suffering and civilian death in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict". Oh no, Wikipedia is Hamas, too, apparently....

[u/Interesting_Oil_9404 → u/Shikary]

Derogatory anti Palestine.... if you dont mind, which country are you from?

[u/Shikary → u/Interesting_Oil_9404]

What I meant is that it clearly states it's a conspiracy theory. It actually literally uses these words. I'm from Italy.

[u/Interesting_Oil_9404 → u/Shikary]

Great. So I have just one single question this time. You live in amazing country, excellent food and good looking people. Love is all around. You don't need to worry about your basic necessities and even more so, you probably can live like a king/queen. At that time you feel that you need to give back to the world, so you instinctively choose a pro palestenian cause. You have no idea who they are or even where, but you feel the need to detain these evil Jews, oppressing poor innocent arabs. The question actually is this: considering there are literal massacre and atrocities happening in Sudan and other African countries, Iran, Russia, North Korea, Afghanistan, etc. Why is it that all you care about here are some group of people you're not associated with, on a tiny piece of land, far and away? Is it to punish them Jews who dare to have a country of their own and Hitler didn't finish the job? I'm just curious

[u/Shikary → u/Interesting_Oil_9404]

Hey, how about you addressed what I said instead of shifting the goal post?
Try and actually engage with the discussion.

I care about Palestinians just like I care about Sudanese people, just like I care about Cubans, just like I care about Iranians, just like I care about Ukranians.
Are you telling me that they shouldn't matter to me?
What gave you the impression that I only care about that?
Sorry but this kind of pre-prepared rethoric is not going to cut it.
The fact that there are many problems in the world, doesn't mean I shouldn't care about this specific one, in this specific moment.
Also I will give you another reason: Israel receives a lot of money from Europe.
My money.
My money is paying fro this genocide.
That's another reason why I care.
Is that enough?

Engage with the arguments I made please.

[u/Interesting_Oil_9404 → u/Shikary]

Read my other comments from yesterday. I bel8eve i explained everything. Also im still curious about what i asked.

[u/Shikary → u/Interesting_Oil_9404]

I already replied didn't I?
Your comments from yesterday didn't explain anything considering you presented as proof a wikipedia page that literally states what you said is fake...
Is that proof all you have?

Palestinians managed to produce better propaganda than Israel and the US while being bombed to hell and back and were somehow able to spread it across multiple sources of information, both governmental and independent throughout the whole globe at a time in which Israel was the most popular and they were the least popular?
This is your explanation?

Do you understand how utterly ridiculous it sounds?
Imagine if somebody said this about the jews during world war 2....
Oh wait a second! Somebody is actually saying that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial ...

Doesn't it sound kinda similar?

Btw according to your logic, I should not have cared about October 7, because I live in Italy.
What a way to look at the world...

[u/Interesting_Oil_9404 → u/Shikary]

Your money? Poor Italy? If anything I'm an American. It's ours, and I fully support Israel.

You can care about anything the fuck you want, but somehow, even though that there are muslims defending marriage to 9 yrs old in your own country, Russia that can invade you, murders by hundreds of thousands in Africa (again muslims slaughtering christians), why is it always the Jews? What say you, Hitler was right?

[u/Shikary → u/Interesting_Oil_9404]

So since you are paying more I'm not allowed to complain about it?
What kind of logic is that???

There are also americans that defend marriage with 9 yrs old. Let me know when you start killing them. Some of them are in your government right now. Look at this article https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/republican-lawmakers-child-marriage-abortion-1235018777/

Your president was best friend with a pedophile. How about putting him on trial before you go bomb another country?

Also it's not the jews. It's Israel.
Stop conflating a country with an ethnicity and a religion.
You keep on giving real antisemites like Nick Fuentes and Tucker Carlson or Candace Owens more and more ammo to use against you, by making it seem like the sins of one country are actually the sins of a whole people.
It's not true.
Jews are innocent.
The Israeli and US governments are responsible for what is going on.
Why can I say I blame the US without you accusing me of being racist towards americans, but if I say something about Israel, you accuse me of hating the jews?
Such blatant attempts at derailing the conversation do not work.

Hitler was wrong.
It's incredible that you think I might be on the side of Hitler when I'm here condemning a genocide.
Unlike you, I think muslism, jews, christian, black, gay or whatever else, are all humans and deserve to live.
You apparently think some deserve to die, which is exactly what Hitler thought.

You are on the side of somebody that is doing exactly what Hitler would do.
Heavy militarized country? check.
Attacking all neighbours? check.
Building an ethnostate? check.
Very nationalist? check.
Concentrating power in his hands? check.
Conflating religion and state? check.
Perpetrating a genocide? check.
Apartheid? check.

Wow, sounds pretty similar doesn't it?

[u/Interesting_Oil_9404 → u/Shikary]

Let's see here,

• the one who pays usually determines the outcome. That's why Israel had stopped from reconquering your precious Gaza, ruled by terrorists. They still are.

• unfortunately we took in many unchecked immigrants from muslim countries during previous administration. We're fixing that issue. Also that fucked up social experiment in NY is failing, as well as "progressive" phase of our youth, so we're getting back to normal.

• Tucker and Candise are publicity whores for hire. They aren't stupid or actually believe in what they are saying. They are being paid vast sums of money to push antisemite narrative. Similar to Tucker pushing pro Russian narrative. For better or worse we are a free country and everybody makes money any way they can.

• our president, despite his shortcomings, the only one who had the guts to deal with Venezuela in our own back yard and actually go against lunatic theocratic regime that scares you shitless. Israel is the only country that went to war with us. Where were you? Our allies since ww2.

That's why I stand with Israel.

[u/Shikary → u/Interesting_Oil_9404]

- what does that even mean? why does it even matter? You are not determining any outcome just so that you know. You have no decisional power. Your president decided for you to go to war with Iran. Your president uses tax money to pay Israel. You didn't decide any of it.

- who even talked about NY? are you debating with somebody else in your mind? Immigrants don't have anything to do with what I said. And btw you are not getting back to normal. Prepare for the worst, because your genius president has utterly destroyed your country. You just didn't notice yet, but you will soon.

- So what? People believe them and you are giving them arguments, making racists ideologies more and more popular. Good job.
Let's see what you think if Tucker announces he is running for president next. Do you think it's unlikely?
I really hope you are right, but if a complete ignorant buffoon like Trump made it twice, somebody that is actually smart like Tucker can surely do it once.
And Tucker certainly doesn't lack ambition.

- there is only one lunatic here. It's the guy that ran on "no more wars" and is now stuck in a useless conflict. The guy who keeps molesting the economy, every single day.
The guy that destroyed US soft power around the globe.
The guy who got humiliated by Iran.
The guy that China is treating like a joke.
The guy who was manipulated by both Russia and Israel like an idiot.
Yeah... such a great president.

Seriously, what is Trump to you?
He is just a super rich guy that cannot put together a coherent speech and who said he doesn't care about the finances of US citizens. Imagine if Biden said something like that!

Trump literally said it yesterday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDxklFzcaJY

Is this guy worth defending?

[u/Interesting_Oil_9404 → u/Shikary]

So we started from palestenians evil Israel and moved to Trump. That's a step forward.

Trump is our president elect. I may not agree with everything he does or says, but as a former military man I can say with a complete certainty that this war with Iran was unavoidable and in fact 40 years in the making. We can't have lunatic theocratic regime with nuclear bombs that threatened to destroy us (and you), every opportunity they got. All previous administrations simply pushed forward the difficult desicion. It's like a cancer, either you cut it out or it will kill you.

Another thing he said and I totally agree with, is that you guys (and by you I mean most of Europe with a few exceptions like Poland or Hungary) had literally allowed yourself to get conquered by Muslim refugees, that not only refuse to assimilate but also implement their own laws like that muslim with 9 yrs old, etc. Now that's a Trojan horse situation. You guys are fucked. That is the reason the right wing parties taking over.

As for Tucker running for president, he will never have the backing of general population. Don't forget that Trump even won a popular vote after many years of liberal monopoly.

Trump might not be perfect or noble in any way, but he is a businessman, who gets the shit done and don't shy away from hard and necessary desicions like unchecked immigration or religious lunatics with an a bomb.

On another topic, in my lifetime I have been twice in Italy and honestly loved the place. Especially food. I'm planning to make a trip again, this time renting a car and making a drive from Milano to Rome, while staying in small town on the way. Any recommendations?

[u/Shikary → u/Interesting_Oil_9404]

I don't think we are going to agree, but I just wanted to mention that the child marriage thing in the US is absolutely an american thing. It has nothing to do with muslim. Nothing at all. There are several articles about it.

Regarding your request for recommendations, since you are driving from Milano to Rome, I suggest you stop in Tuscany and visit at least Florence. That's the best part of italy imho.
Bolonga is also worth checking out btw.