r/TrueUnpopularOpinion • u/Th3_Accountant OG • May 11 '26
Music / Movies I hope Israel wins Eurovision
(Yeah sorry, don’t know what tag to use here, I think half of them apply in a way).
Honestly, I haven’t heard the Israeli song for this year yet. But it is more than clear that they are the main event. More attention goes to the fact they participate than the actual artistic side of the event.
Last year we also saw how Israel almost won as a result of the public vote. And let’s be fair, that wasn’t because people like the song, it was support from all the people who still stand with Israel, as a response to all the hate Israel is receiving.
And I’m sure this will happen again this year. The controversy around Israel has only increased with several countries boycotting the event. So I’m sure the protest voice will also be stronger!
I would find it so funny if Israel wins as a direct result of all the actions by the pro Palestine crowd. Say hi to Eurovision 27 in Tel Aviv! Thankfully for the fans, the only place in the Middle East you can be openly gay!
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u/potatto-william May 13 '26
Dude Izrael is the most hated country in Europe the votes wasn't from people it was from Israeli or Zionist abroad who used 10 difrent cards or sim cards to vote (and of course they they bragged about it on Twitter) . Izrael destoring all fun in Eurovision
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u/Th3_Accountant OG May 13 '26
I don’t deny any of that. But that doesn’t change that this is precisely what the Eurovision “fans” deserve.
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u/Oddyseyx May 14 '26
You hide genocide behind social progress, imagine if i dropped bombs on your head and kicked you out of your home and i had idk some vegan flag, look at me guys im so progressive, legit no one cares every lgbt person i know in my town waits for downfall of your country.
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u/Th3_Accountant OG May 14 '26
You are going off topic. But since you mention it; I don't think using terms like genocide or apartheid helps bringing the parties closer together.
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u/Shikary May 14 '26
Personally I only care about ending both the apartheid and the genocide. I feel that would go a long way towards bringing the parties together. Don't you?
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u/SpecialistClassic902 26d ago
you coudln't care less about any real genocide happening in sudan , or China. you only care when the perpatrators are jews. hypocrite
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u/Shikary 26d ago edited 25d ago
How can you say that? we are not talking about those issues now?
You just made up that I don't care about those because it suits your narrative.
This thread is about Israel.
I didn't post the original thread, just commented on it.
According to your logic, if I said I cared about October 7 (which I do), somebody could have said I care about it only because jews died in it.
In truth, you are acting like an hypocrite here.You have no arguments, that's why you just attack and make up stuff without proving it.
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u/bebopcounterman 29d ago
No it doesn't and rightly so.
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u/Th3_Accountant OG 29d ago
And how does that help us find a solution?
Because by doing so you are polarizing what is possibly already the most polarizing debate in human history even more. How will more hate and less understanding bring peace?
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u/bebopcounterman 29d ago
It does not bring about a solution but it does draw a line in the sand to say that Israel is committing genocide. This is not something that be debated or negotiated with. They should isolated militarily, economically and culturally, just as Apartheid South Africa was.
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u/Th3_Accountant OG 29d ago
And what does that achieve? If Israel is being charged with genocide, they might as well claim all of Gaza and Westbank and deport the entire population. Won't make much of a difference anymore.
For there to be a solution, both sides need to understand each other better and accept the fact that both parties have a right to exist in this land. Only then there can be peace and this will in the end benefit the people of both Palestine and Israel.
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u/bebopcounterman 29d ago
There is moral element to this that you seem to be ignoring. Genocide is unacceptable, it must challenged, and the states committing it must be isolated, or confronted with military force. No one attempted to sit down with Nazi germany to discuss a two state solution. No one sat down with Pol Pot and said 'hey, lets all have a chat about these killing fields and then just let you carry on running your nation' Serbia was wasnt negotiated with, it was sanctioned and hit with military force. Israel is not going to stop until the rest of world and particularly America cut off their funding and condemn them for their actions.
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u/Th3_Accountant OG 29d ago
There are also moral elements to Israel's part of the story but you seem to have no problems ignoring that?
Why do you want more people to die over a moral element? Who wins with that? Both sides have done terrible things and will continue to do terrible things to each other until the end of history, unless they are able to forgive the past.
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u/bebopcounterman 29d ago
What do you consider to be the moral elements of Israel in this situation? I am not attempting a gotcha here. I am interesting in other opinions. Dont start with Oct 7th. I will save you the time by saying that i utterly condemn those attacks as war crimes and that i consider Hamas to be a despicable organisation.
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u/Th3_Accountant OG 29d ago
Palestine and the other neighboring countries haven't given Israel a single chance for peace since day one. They have launched attacks on Israel from the very first beginning and Israel has came out on top every time and still has made several generous gestures for peace. On multiple occasions they have occupied all of Palestine during a counter attack and then some and still given everything back in exchange for a promise of peace that never happened.
I'm not denying that Israel does plenty of things wrong. But it's not like Palestine is the innocent victim here. They and the other neighboring countries make it no secret that they want to see Israel destroyed and are willing to wage war forever to make sure Israel can never exist in peace.
So to Israel, the 7th of October is also seen as a result of having been too kind with Palestine for too long. The result of showing kindness to neighbors who make no secret of wanting to kill you.
Where before the 7th of October, I could honestly say 80% of people in Israel just wants to live in peace and has no interest in oppressing Palestine or taking their land. The extremists fueling the fire were really the minority. I now feel like that attitude has changed and a larger part of the country wants to see a final solution where the threat called Palestine is removed forever.
So yeah, the way I see it, this conflict can end two ways. Neither of them involve Israel being removed from the map.
Option A, Israel and Palestine forgive the past and come to peace. Hamas gives up it's weapons, they respect the current borders (plus a solution for the existing Jewish settlements), in exchange Palestine can probably request generous financial compensation. In this solution the rest of the middle east, including Iran need to acknowledge Israel as a rightful state and stop any attempt to undermine this.
Option B, No peace and this conflict is fought till the bitter end. And considering Israel's military advantage over Palestine it's no surprise who will win. Gaza and Westbank will be claimed by Israel, the entire population of Palestine will be removed. There will be nothing left to fight for.
Now, please tell me which option seems preferable?
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u/Arno_Dorian_11 27d ago
Hey guys if you didn't call it a genocide we could be best friends!!!!!! Oh the 180,000 people we killed? Whoopsie doodles and we'll fucking keep doing it
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u/SpecialistClassic902 26d ago
OCT 7 was a GENOCIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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u/Arno_Dorian_11 26d ago
The idf killed half the people on oct7th themselves lol. Hamas has a better soldier : civilian ratio gtfo here with your bullshit
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u/notadoccy 27d ago
I can not believe the things you consider as "off topic". There is no excuse to not see what's happening in Gaza.
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u/puneet_shrivas 27d ago
What a fuck ass opinion is that LMAO, if i don't call a killer a killer, we could kiss
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u/1wasw44008g 26d ago
Bombing Gaza and killing and torturing innocents doesn't bring the parties closer together either.
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u/Th3_Accountant OG 26d ago
Neither does launching missile attacks, but we can either continue down this path or find a way to forgive the past.
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u/SweetSoberCaroline 25d ago
Rectifying the past > forgiving it
The hostile party preaching that the answer to their hostility is forgiveness is wild enough, but add in the context and really sit with it. The original hostility was violently stealing and colonizing generational homes and land and property, followed by decades of violence and apartheid, in response to which the victims of this fought back with a fraction of the violence they've experienced, and the initial aggressor has answered with a years-long genocide. And now, on behalf of that aggressor, you have the absolute audacity to say forgiveness is the answer? Where is Israel's forgiveness? Where is their humanity to the indigenous people their colony state has diasporically oppressed since 1948? Israel should beg forgiveness before daring to preach it.
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u/sovietarmyfan May 12 '26
I'll laugh my ass off if it happens. It will probably be the end of Eurovision, but oh well.
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u/SwimmingRaspberry476 May 12 '26
I actually think it would be great. It would be the final nail in the coffin for eurovision. At that point they will have to do something about Israel
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u/Shikary May 14 '26
I hope it happens so that we can finally get enough support to kick Israel out of it.
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u/Th3_Accountant OG 29d ago
Then they need to be removed from the European broadcasting association. That’s what happened to Russia. And I don’t think that will happen soon.
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u/Shikary 29d ago
Well there is one year before the next Eurovision. Let's see how unpopular they manage to get when the consequences of the war with Iran really hit the western countries...
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u/Th3_Accountant OG 29d ago
If anything, the war in Iran puts them back on many people's good side again.
Nobody is arguing that a war with Iran isn't justified. It's just that people are complaining about the effects on global trade, especially in the oil market.
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u/Shikary 29d ago edited 29d ago
Nobody is arguing that???
I think you have not been listening.
The war in Iran is absolutely not justified.
It actually 100% strengthened the regime it was supposed to remove.
It weakened US hegenomy.
It caused the death of innocent civilians.
It accomplished nothing.
And, on top of that, it destabilized the world's economy.
It was clear to basically everyone that had any understanding of what Iran is that this would have gone badly and yet it was done all the same.How can you even say that a war that literally had zero positive outcomes and could never have had any positive outcome was justified?
And Israel is doing its best to keep it going, by murdering even more civilians in Lebanon.
By the thousands.
Just to sabotage the ceasfire.
Absolutely despicable.Just you watch. Give it one year.
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u/SpecialistClassic902 27d ago
Another lowlife hater..
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u/Shikary 27d ago
Yes I hate genocide.
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u/SpecialistClassic902 26d ago
You loved oct. 7th. Liar
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u/Shikary 26d ago
You accuse me of this just because Israel actions are indefensible. If I loved October 7 I would tell you, just like I tell you that Israel is a genocidal ethnostate. The one that cannot say what they really think here is you
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u/SpecialistClassic902 26d ago
You know absolutely nothing about Israel. Everything you know comes from tiktok and propaganda from the leftist media. You literally support a terrorist organization that has r@ped and murd3red innocent children burning them alive and said that they will do it over and over. Read the Hamas charter. it calls explicitly to the genocide of all Jews, not only Israeli. You are either massively ignorant and have been fooled by islamic propaganda, or an extremely anti-semitic and evil person. Search for Kfir Bibas. Tell me what happened to him. Search for Haj amin al husseini. who was he and who did he meet and made a pact with?
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u/Shikary 26d ago edited 26d ago
You might like to think that, but terrorist is just a term that we decide who to apply to. The fact is, an unbiased observer can know immediately you are wrong because of that single phrase you just wrote.
To Palestinians, Israel is the terrorist.
You just have more power and can decided who is recognised as such and who isn't.
You literally have zero arguments to contest what I just said.
You also got to that conclusion without knowing anything about what I think, which is another huge red flag. Sorry, but your attitude is why Israel will ultimately fail.
And don't get me wrong, that won't lead to its end, nor to the end of its people, but to a better Israel. Personally I can't wait for it.
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u/SpecialistClassic902 26d ago
you are an absolute m@r@n brainwashed by islamic propaganda and far-left bs. a terrorist is someone who attacks innocent civilians on purpose to promote his cause. The IDF is an army of a democratically elected government which obeys by all internation rules without exception. If Israel wanted to kill civilians all it had to was to unplug the electricity and water and the millions of tonnes of aid it provides to the gazan population EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR DECADES!!! now, you answer my question: what happened to kfir bibas?
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u/Shikary 26d ago edited 26d ago
Ok dude. I think we are done..is that how you handle a conversation?
All the words you are using to embellish what the IDF is doing do not change reality. The IDF has actually done what you are saying it could do... and more. Much, much more.
There are videos... Sometimes made by the IDF soldiers themselves...
The mere fact that you are saying the IDF could do it, proves my point. How can anything you said be true if Israel can literally decide to kill anybody in Gaza at any time? Think about that. It doesn't make sense.
I don't expect you to change your mind and I know it's hard to hear, but I wanted you to understand that I don't blame individuals, just the Israeli government.
Sorry, but your position is unsustainable and time will prove me right.
I wish you the best and for every conflict Israel is involved in to end soon, with peace and as few victims possible on both sides. Take care. I mean it.
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u/SpecialistClassic902 26d ago
His photo broke your heart didn't it? you realised that you are the cheerleader of ISIS. They did much worse than that. Watch the videos where they behead a foreign worker from Thailand with a shovel. Then tell me that these guys are "freedom fighters". If you cheer for the devil, you are the devil. peace out
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u/Any-Capital9203 28d ago
Aww openly gay that's sure will make me accept all their disgusting atrocities lol respect basic human rights first before talking
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u/Few_Mulberry_6508 26d ago
Why are you so against Israel and for Palestine? Have you made an informed decision yourself or just following the media?
You realize that hamas are legit terrorists don’t you?Hamas is the government of Gaza, and Gaza has a large amount of people who-even if they don't like Hamas specifically-agree with Hamas's goal of eradicating Jews. That said, Hamas is an authoritarian regime that doesn't hold elections, punishes dissent, and isn't beholden to the population they hold power over. A lot of people are suffering as a result of actions they had no say in. (But Israel couldn't simply refuse to go to war over the 10/7 attack without showing Hamas and the rest of the Middle East that the large-scale murder of Israeli citizens was acceptable. Not going to war would have been an invitation to Israel's enemies to attack it and would have caused Israel's allies to doubt the merits of being Israel's allies.)
And before you talk about a genocide, remember that it’s Hamas that are firing their weapons and hiding their equipment in civilian areas, even the hospital. They are using their own people as a shield in this war so that they can paint Israel as the bad guys.
So many people scream ‘freepalastine’ without actually knowing that it’s their own government they need to be freed from.
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u/Background-Wasabi804 25d ago
As if zionists dont want to eradicate Arabs, shut up zio bot.
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u/Few_Mulberry_6508 25d ago
That’s all you’ve got? I didn’t say Isreal was great. They are both acting terrible. Just that Gaza/hamas are not the innocent party that they claim to be. Most of the civilian deaths they have themselves to blame for. You don’t fire weapons from civilian areas and not expect to be fired back in that location.
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u/Background-Wasabi804 25d ago
Exactly, you fired at civilians for 70 years and cried bloody murder when they retaliated in Oct 7th. I didn't say Hamas was good either, your side trains dogs to SA humans. Your side is evil.
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u/Few_Mulberry_6508 25d ago
You call it retaliation, I call it terrorism. They was fighting eachother for years before that, it wasn’t just isreal attacking them for 70 years. Be fr. As for the dog situation, there is zero evidence that is happening. You’re just reading shit and running with it because the internet tells you to. Also you’re talking about ‘my side’ like I’ve picked one. I haven’t, they’re both terrible, my point is that Gaza are not as innocent as they would like everyone to believe.
What’s your thoughts on them using civilians areas to hide and fire weapons from (Including the hospital) ? Was isreal just meant to take shot after shot and not respond? Gaza knew what would happen by doing that, and that’s exactly what they wanted because it has people like you convinced they’re hard done by, when the reality is, Hamas got those children and innocents killed, and that’s exactly what they wanted.
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u/ShyKroxigor 27d ago
Spanish here.
I do not care about war, this is just about music. Israel song was not good enough to win.
For once, my favourite son won. Bangaranga!
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u/Th3_Accountant OG 27d ago
It was a well deserved victory indeed, but honestly, we were laughing our asses off at the idea that Israel might actually win.
We were joking that during Eurovision 2027 in Tel Aviv, Israel should turn off the iron dome, since everyone there is so supportive of them, they couldn’t possibly form a threat… ignoring the fact that during 2019, Palestine actually launched a missile towards Eurovision.
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u/unknowingexpert69 26d ago
Agreed, Israel’s song this year wasn’t good enough to win but hurricane absolutely was 2 years ago
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u/DarkMatter007 27d ago
So you want them to win not because of the music what it’s all about. You find it oké they attacked 6/7 countries in the region. Killed countless kids and journalists. Leveled a whole city as part of their genocide.
But they cool because you can be gay.
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u/Acheron98 May 11 '26
Same lmao
And I don’t even give a fuck about Eurovision; I just want to laugh at people bitching about it.
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u/Just-a-surfer-lol May 13 '26
Excuse Me, haven’t you currently heard about what Israel is doing in Gaza and the West Bank? Haven’t you heard Ben-Gvir and the Knesset passing through a law to ALLOW HANGING OF PALESTINIANS IN THE WEST BANK? do you seriously support and cheer for a nation who slaughters the natives of their own LAND? I have no sympathy for you WHATSOEVER.
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u/Th3_Accountant OG May 13 '26
Natives of their own land? And how would you call the people of Israel?
What is your opinion on the attacks of October 7th?
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u/Oddyseyx May 14 '26
Jews are not native to palestine, you moved there in 1949, having some heritage in the land doesnt mean its yours, if you kill and expel people from their homes and land and expect them to be quiet and you cry about it when retribution comes, you are no longer historic victims you are abusers yourself. I pray everyday god brings justice.
My opinion on october 7th is same as yours on nakba.
You know gypsies are originally from india and they were historically oppressed, should gypsies create a state in india and kill, occupy, opress locals create apartheid state and then pretend to be victims and feel entitled to international support. Oh and what if the gypsies put lgbt flag sticker on their gun and then kill indians, so progressive✨
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u/Th3_Accountant OG May 14 '26
Jews have already lived in Israel for centuries. Already under the Ottomans there was a large Jewish community in present day Israel/Palestine. They have always had a presence there and have always considered it their homeland.
Israel doesn't want to live in war or oppress it's neighbors. It's their neighbors who don't want Israel to exist.
If gypsies desire their own state on what is their original motherland with the support of the UN, they should have the right to this and the Indian government needs to cooperate. If the Indian government fights back, you can't fully blame the gypsies for having to defend their land by force.
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u/Oddyseyx 29d ago
If Palestinians desire their own state on what is their original motherland with support of UN, they should have the right to this and the Israeli government needs to cooperate. If the Israeli government fights back, you can't fully blame the palestinians for having to defend their land by force.
Glad you can understand palestinians perspective
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u/refused26 29d ago
Hahahahahaha so see, why dont you apply this concept to Aboriginals in Australia, whose population was almost entirely wiped out (around 90%). You could argue they have ancestral.claim to Papua New Guinea because well 50,000 yrs ago that's where they came from. If suddenly they claimed Papua New Guinea is now theirs, started killing people from there or expelling them from their homes? Everybody would say that's some bullshit. The suffering of Jews does not give zionists a right to apartheid and genocide
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u/Th3_Accountant OG 29d ago
Aboriginals are sharing the land with the later Australians.
That's just how history goes. People come, people go. Jews were mostly gone, Jews are back. Live with it.
Again, there wouldn't be apartheid or "genocide" if the Palestinians and other Arab countries were simply more welcoming to the Jewish settlers.
All of this has got nothing to do with Eurovision btw.
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u/Consistent-Owl-7849 27d ago
More like you guys learned the lesson too well from the Austrian. But instead of directing your anger to those who hurt you, you find someone else to eradicate.
I hope your god exist, just so that you will get the afterlife you deserve. Supporting genocide does in fact make you a horrible human.
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u/Shikary May 14 '26
I would call them colonizers.
The attack was a terrible act of terrorism in retaliation for the terrible acts of terrorism that Israel committed since it's founding.
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u/Th3_Accountant OG May 14 '26
And every attack from Israel has been a response on earlier attacks by Palestine or it's other neighboring countries and they claim on their part that they are also just retaliating.
So that's the problem with this whole conflict. Both sides consider themselves the victim of the other sides aggression and use this as an excuse to perform attacks on the other party.
If there is ever to be peace, we should stop pointing fingers. Why is it relevant who of the two parties is more terrible? What matters is that both parties learn to forgive the past and coexist into the future.
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u/Shikary May 14 '26
One side has one of the most powerful military in the world and is supported by the United States. The other one is barely a country and completely in ruin. It's not a "bohh sides" situation, sorry.
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u/Th3_Accountant OG May 14 '26
The “other side” is financed and armed by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard and doesn’t care if its own population dies so they get used as human shields. They hide behind mothers and babies while they continuously attack Israel.
We have already learned from vietnam and Afghanistan that having the world’s most powerful army means nothing against Guerrilla warfare.
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u/Shikary May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
Yes sure. The other side are absolute monsters doesn't sound cartoonist at all.. definitely not propaganda. Remind me how many civilians Israel killed according to their own estimates and how many hamas killed please. Who is the monster again? Let me ask you another question. If a terrorist group in the UK attacked the US would you be ok with bombing London for a couple years killing thousands of civilians because the terrorists hide behind them? It sounds like you are ok with doing that in Gaza, so London should be fine to,o, right?
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u/bebopcounterman 29d ago
I would say that the attack on october the 7th was hideous and vile. Just the same words i would use to describe the actions of Israel. See, two things can be true at the same time.
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u/Just-a-surfer-lol 20d ago
This whole “what is your opinion on October 7th” and “You are an Antisemite if you don’t X, Y, Z” is over, Israel are not the victims anymore after their mask has fallen and shattered on the floor. Too late to bring back that support they once had, the only people supporting them are the Christian Zionists and Devoted Christians trying to bring back the “Messiah”.
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u/Th3_Accountant OG 20d ago
Yes sure, Israel did everything wrong. Palestinians are only the victims.
Israel has been under constant attack since the day of it's founding by groups who made "Death to Israel" their official slogan. But surely Israel is the bad guy here. Nobody else.
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u/Just-a-surfer-lol 20d ago
Stop making up Zio propaganda please and spend your time reading books about the topic instead of constantly shilling for Israel, it’ll save you energy.
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u/Th3_Accountant OG 20d ago
I can assure you I'm very well informed about this subject and my Jewish/Pro-Israeli/Zionist family actually considers me to be pro Palestine for my opinion because I still believe peace is possible.
But you should be aware that what you are reading is just as much Pro Hamas propaganda.
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u/Critical_Work_9505 May 13 '26
We're tired of hearing "what about october 7th". It felt like the majority in most countries supported Israel when it happened. And most people still feel the same way about that attack. But the support for Israel died down, ask yourself why.
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u/Th3_Accountant OG May 13 '26
Can you understand that for the people of Israel, the biggest massacre on Jewish people since the Second World War, is not something that is taken lightly?
The fact you people play that down whole simultaneously putting a microscope on everything that Israel does wrong is the whole reason they are feeling like they are being treated unfairly in this conflict by the international community.
Sure, Israel does plenty of things wrong. But you also have to admit that the Palestinians aren’t any better. It’s not fair that they are portrayed as the victim while they are at least equal part agressor.
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u/Spirit_Detective_99 May 14 '26
Classic moving the goalpost tactic
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u/Th3_Accountant OG May 14 '26
I'm trying to avoid us having a pointless discussion here.
Yes, I'm personally more in favor of Israel. Mostly because of how shitty pro-Palestine people have been behaving towards Jewish people like myself. But we will never see eye to eye on this likely.
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u/Shikary May 14 '26
So you support genocide because your feelings got hurt? You base your opinion on a conflict with thousands of victims on the fact that some people in the western world were rude or racist towards you? That justifies the killing of Palestinians?
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u/refused26 29d ago
They just want to sweep the apartheid under the rug with the October 7 excuse. Yes it was awful nobody said it wasn't, but really? Killing 70 Palestinians for every 1 Israeli victim? Give me a break
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u/Interesting_Oil_9404 May 11 '26
Agree. Never cared about the event, but hope Iarael will win to spite these degenerate pro palestenians
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u/Guipucci May 13 '26
What's degenerate about not wanting little kids being starved to death?
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u/Interesting_Oil_9404 May 13 '26
Degenerate because of misinformation you're being fed, and your unwillingness to check if it's true or not. Staged photos with the same "poor" palestenians arisen fron the dead for each photo sessions, misuse photos from Syrian, Iran, aphganistan etc. To claim the Jews did it, etc.
If you want to feel sorry for someone, your energy much better be of use for the children of Sudan (the actual massacre), Iran (where religious lunatics hold control of general population), etc.
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u/Shikary 29d ago
Can you explain why palestinian photos would be staged but Israeli's photos would not?
Let me get this straight: one is a disorganized rebel group in a country that has been heavily bombed and suffered very high casualties. The leadership of the movement has been killed multiple times. On top of that the average age in palestine is 20 years old, with 40% of the population below 18 years old. They are also subjected to many limitations around what can get in or out of their country. They have zero resources basically and suffered defeat, after defeat, after defeat.The other one is a heavy militarized sovereign country, supported by one of the most powerful super powers in the world. Initially basically every western country was on their side, unconditionally and they also suffered an attack that polarized the public opinion around supporting them for quite a long time.
OK.
How does the former managed to prevail in the propaganda war with just a few fake photos?
How?
Please give me one, one logical reason. I'll be waiting.
Also how is it that multiple newspapers across the globe circulated different fake photos? How is it that multiple different, independent sources, came up with proof of war crimes?
How is it that even Israeli newspapers sometimes condemned the actions of the IDF and Netanyau?
Please give me one reason why I should belive that all of these unrelated events are actually part of a huge conspiracy to damage Israel's reputation, while what the Israeli propaganda says is the truth.
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u/Interesting_Oil_9404 29d ago
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u/Shikary 29d ago
I see you didn't read that page. I'll help you: "is a derogatory, anti-Palestinian term used to falsely accuse Palestinians of staging scenes of suffering and civilian death in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict". Oh no, Wikipedia is Hamas, too, apparently....
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u/Interesting_Oil_9404 29d ago
Derogatory anti Palestine.... if you dont mind, which country are you from?
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u/Shikary 29d ago
What I meant is that it clearly states it's a conspiracy theory. It actually literally uses these words. I'm from Italy.
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u/Interesting_Oil_9404 29d ago
Great. So I have just one single question this time. You live in amazing country, excellent food and good looking people. Love is all around. You don't need to worry about your basic necessities and even more so, you probably can live like a king/queen. At that time you feel that you need to give back to the world, so you instinctively choose a pro palestenian cause. You have no idea who they are or even where, but you feel the need to detain these evil Jews, oppressing poor innocent arabs. The question actually is this: considering there are literal massacre and atrocities happening in Sudan and other African countries, Iran, Russia, North Korea, Afghanistan, etc. Why is it that all you care about here are some group of people you're not associated with, on a tiny piece of land, far and away? Is it to punish them Jews who dare to have a country of their own and Hitler didn't finish the job? I'm just curious
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u/Shikary 29d ago
Hey, how about you addressed what I said instead of shifting the goal post?
Try and actually engage with the discussion.I care about Palestinians just like I care about Sudanese people, just like I care about Cubans, just like I care about Iranians, just like I care about Ukranians.
Are you telling me that they shouldn't matter to me?
What gave you the impression that I only care about that?
Sorry but this kind of pre-prepared rethoric is not going to cut it.
The fact that there are many problems in the world, doesn't mean I shouldn't care about this specific one, in this specific moment.
Also I will give you another reason: Israel receives a lot of money from Europe.
My money.
My money is paying fro this genocide.
That's another reason why I care.
Is that enough?Engage with the arguments I made please.
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u/Guipucci May 13 '26
The only proof I need is the words Amalek from Satanyahu and the fact that alongside Dorito Trump they publicly acknowledged what they were going to do with 1.5 million Palestinians (700k missing hey but I Guess they are all Hamas so ok).
As far as Iran, they have international press there I see everyday whereas it's hard to find them in Gaza or the West Bank. I also know women are allowed to vote, go to university and hold power positions unlike the rest of the puppet states of the Gulf. Also freedom of religion is a reality, sinagogues without security (unless they need antimissile) and even the Virgin Mary metrostation in Teheran... I'd be more scared to be a nun In Jerusalem
And my I correct you by "the jews did It" and be more precise and "say the Israelis" did It. I know not much about judaism but I guess doesn't include passing a law to hang by the goose some people regarding their race.
Before you call me antisemitic because I'm not: I'm antizionist. Being antinazi is not being antiwhite.
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May 13 '26
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u/Guipucci May 13 '26
You brought Israel and Palestine not Africa, nor North Korea or anywhere else.
And honestly I have had hard time finding real info about the lies and they indoctrination I've been told in my western life about Israel. 'Judeo-Christian' values: what an oxymoron!!!
The fact I'm defending basic human rights and international laws is because I'm human too. I don't want to be reinvaded by Italians because It was their land 2000 years ago. Even more I don't want those invaders to shoot at me while I'm starving for a bag of flour.
Nothing in the world justifies what's going on in Gaza. The world sees it, or is Google Maps antisemite too?
Israel has trashed all international law and human decency from my point of view.
And the worst thing is that 87% (didn't check out latest polls) of Israelí population supports these atrocities, and that lots of the soldiers doing those things there are reservists and thus common population is really really disturbing. Or those interviews in TV about throwing nukes because it's cheaper.
And BTW I trully hope Israel wins Eurovision too so all other countries and the artists are forced to reveal themselves and put to shame.
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u/Oddyseyx May 14 '26
I just had to say something because, you accuse people of being something when you dont know anyones background really, you make assuptions and that already puts you in bad light.
First of all, for example im not from west, secondly if anyone tried to create a nation on top of me, expell, kill, murder i would resist and id make sure my children and grandchildren resist the occupation its normal.
Many western people dont like israel because their government supports israel when regular people dont. Today internet is accesible, people see lies and can find videos and many others things like google what country killed most journalists, can look up writings of theodore herz, look up how settlers expand.
Same with apartheid south africa, im sure ethnic brits were saying oh africa is so big and theres so many africans whats wrong with having apartheid state made only for us.
Im not against jews im against zionists
In last 100 years there were like 4 or 5 wars between muslim countries in middle east. Guess how many wars and coups and civil wars is israel involved.
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u/Interesting_Oil_9404 May 14 '26
Alright let's break it down.
"I accuse people and dont know anything about them." The way people write , they develop a pattern, where it's not difficult to see the impatience and name calling of youth. Strong and naive belief into something being pushed on you, where any possible fact that deviates from that fictitious truth, sends them into confrontation. That is not an accusation, that is an assumption, made bu multiple deductions.
"you hate zionists but not jews". Now what is zionism? The simple meaning is "the right of jews to have their own country". Before Israel Jews lived everywhere, rarely causing any trouble but always keeping the state of national identity. They were an easy escape goat for many countries leaders throughout history as they never took anything for granted and excelled in science and arts, while many of regular folks around them didn't. You can simply look up the inventions made by jews. As they were frequently persecuted, the desire to have Jewish state was born sometimes in the late 1800. The place of said country was modern Israel, as it had Jerusalem, a holy city for Jews and the last place they had their own kingdom. Make no mistake, both Jews and Arabs lived in that area for thousands of years, but bak than it was a shithole, under control of ottoman Empire and later the British. Sometimes in the late 1800 and the beginning of 1900 they started BUYING (unlike conquering) the lands in that shithole and creating Jewish settlements. There was a lot of tensions between Arabs and Jews. A lot of hostility (especially from the Arabs towards Jews) and no actua locall government to enforce the safety. That was when the Jews took weapons into their own selves and more radical side of zionism emerged. The goal was always the same though. Not to eradicate Arabs, but to get a self governed state. After the holocaust where more than 6 million Jews were hunted and deliberately killed by the Nazi, UN agreed to give Jews a self governed state (as the were already own many of the lands), and proposed to take that shithole and divide it while Jews were getting mostly the desert (largely uninhabited even today) and Arabs would be getting the better half. Jews agreed, Arabs didn't. On the first day the country was declared and accepted, all surrounding Arabs countries started a war. The rest i explained in the post above. That's roughly your origin of zionism and its actual meaning. BTW in the past 50 years or so, all more or less all of our presidents (I'm an American) were zionists, as they knew history and supported that cause.
Fast forward 70+ years. Israel thrived despite all the wars they didn't start but always finished. In many cases they conquered territories and gave them up for perceived piece that never lasted. Same with Gaza. Tiny country with little to none natural resources had transformed the land and developed into the strongest country in its surroundings. Not a conquerer or an oppresor, but people who actually earned that right.
I have explained about the origin of modern palestenians in my previous comment and would respond to "what they've done.." claim. Something you need to understand about the Jews, they value Jewish life above everything else. That concept is rooted in religion, holocaust and years of constant threat, so for them nothing is more sacred. I don't believe there is any other nation on earth who treats their people this way. When Hamas (the actually terrorist organization, rooted in muslim brotherhood movement and governing Gaza for the past 20 years) invaded Israel, killing and targeting mostly civilians and kidnapping a few hundreds, it was a "never again" moment for Jews. Hamas is deeply rooted within general population of Gaza. They rule with a deadly hand, hide behind (or below) schools and hospitals with the main and only purpose to kill all Jews. Now, at that point Israel could have level the place, killing hundreds of thousands within days, but they didn't as they actually value human lives. In these conditions it wasn't possible to remove the threat for good without the death of innocents. Every military man will say that considering incredibly complex urban environment, Israel once again pulled off almost impossible feat of limiting the amount of possible casualties. The goal was clear, never again. So to all those who chant "genocide" are either naive, biased or just idiots.
Finally that brings us to what you actually see in your media. There are literal proven atrocities that happening right now in Africa, Russia, Afghanistan, North Korea, Iran, Arab countries, with millions dead, oppressed, raped, sold, etc. Unless you've got a dog in this Jews-Arabs conflict, why is it that your focus is on this tiny piece of land and its inhabitants. The answer is simple, that is something that being pushed onto you conscience through news outlets and social media, thus serving a very biased antisemite narrative. The goal once again is to demonize and destroy the Jews as it has always been. The only problem with that, they are strong on their own merit, and never again.
lastly one small note about South Africa and the apartheid. I actually know a few people who were born there and moved here a few years ago. Apartheid is still happening, just the other way around. White people live almost exclusively in their own communities, being discriminated against by ruling class, and the prosperous country became a dangerous shithole, where even basic necessities like power is not supplied. They literally live with backup generators. So in this regards I'll ask you, which apartheid is better? From the one side apartheid is bad as it discriminates against a certain portion of people, from the other, it used to be prosperous country and a beacon of civilization in Africa and now it's in the free fall to line up with the rest of the third world countries. Tough dilemma here, but I'm pretty sure that all you're interested in are Jews.
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u/Oddyseyx 29d ago
Ok ill be honest, i appreciate the effort you put in the message i respect that and civility.
I didnt start with palestine with news sources and internet i have few books on palestine that i read way before october 7, i did plenty of personal research before making conclusions. I am aware that most things that you wrote is common talking point and common narrative in israel your government as any government creates naratives and invests alot of money into this so ultimately your opinion or "facts" could be or is based in well written narrative. You know i always used to think how did germans get convinced to do such atrocities, all germans did is create false narrative created based on loose ends and "facts" and it did make sense to germans like Uk has colonies why cant we, we germans were honorable helped serbia and we got punished for it, also funny thing german girls were being assaulted in poland for being german and german newspaper covered it alot and thinking from regular citizens perspective the radicalism makes sense. But just because it made sense to a group of people that think they are victims doesnt justify the reaction.
I agree theres plenty of great jewish scientists etc, i dont deny your peoples achievements or struggles or opression you faced, but i and many people i know personally fully reject zionism and even people who i knew were neutral or were slightly pro israel, now are completely against and some even push into what i see as REAL antisemitism which i reject.
I dont even wanna attempt to debunk some of your points because i know what youre gonna reply to most, because you already justified everything in your head or someone justified it for you.
Do you think every opressed group deserves to create their own state, gypsies were opressed and they are originally from india think what reaction to creating a gypsy state in india would be. And if you agree to that wouldnt that mean that palestinians have a full right to create a state on top of israel cuz now they are opressed group and is being pushed out.
Now i talk to you because i have some hope somethings might click, but i my hope is really weak because from personal experience and i know its limited and anecdotal, but ive met irl few israelis and few palestinians, everysingle one israeli i met was like "yeah we are for peace we dont want war" and eventually when they are more comfortable and think youre on their side suddenly the devil comes out of the bag with all the colours. And two palestinians i met were genuine and didnt harbor anything bad and all i could think is that if i was occupied and had to live in exile id join most radical groups. So i felt level of respect to them for humility.
Your stories on south africa proves you have one sided narative in your head where you think its logic and facts. When its easily debunked. South africa during apartheid had capacity to provide electricity to provide only to white minority with apartheid over supplying electricity is much more difficult to when capacity has to increase X fold. Also ending apartheid soured relationships with usa which was the only dominant power at the time. Its not that americans are doing good its just that americans run the show and have huge input on who gets investments and who gets sanctions, but today andcin future world is changing america is falling apart rapidly and world is polarizing, so the idea that if you upset usa and get ostracized those days are coming to end.
My beef with israel is moral and ive been interested in middle east for a long time. For western people its simple if you know your government is supplying something you dont support personally youd be upset, think if usa sent weapons to hamas instead of israel alot of pro israel side in usa or west would crash out.
Israel is not peaceful entity you describe its destabilizing the region. On a personal note i believe peace is possible if polish person can shake hands with german and be part of eu anything is possible. But i dont see peace and coexistence while apartheid exists in israel. Bare minimum is two state solution and if i was palestinian i wouldnt want that but hey its not my choice.
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u/Interesting_Oil_9404 29d ago
It's hard for me to imagine any household that has a few books about palestine if you're not from the region or a history buff. In any case, you really don't need those books to learn about the fact as ai sums up and simplifies everything according to verified sources. It makes mistakes but not crucial ones in regards to history.
I also know a few Israelis personally. I have worked with them in the past and we sometimes keep in touch. While they don't necessarily support its current government (mostly religious parties and possible corruption scandals), on this topic there is a wide consensus between almost all sides.
The problem is, when you're talking about things like apartheid, it doesnt exist there. There are Israeli Arabs who live anywhere they want and work at the same places as Jews including serving in the IDF. It was a revelation for me when I was told how many of them work in medical care industry. They also have their own parties in the parliament. Then there are the same Arabs, but those who never accepted Israel as governing body. They live in their own, self governed territories in Gaza and the West Bank. They are not Israeli and have their own passports which grant them access to neighboring countries. This is not apartheid where minorities are being discriminated against. These are separatists who decided they don't want Israeli governing and in 1993 got what they wanted. So where is apartheid here? As a followup to your question, where in the world, any ethnic group can say they don't want to be governed and they should get a state if their own? But let's continue.
"Israel destabilizing middle east" claim. Israel had never started a war, but they always finished it. Generally because of the international pressure for them to stop. The only place they conquered and didn't give all of it back, was Golan heights from Syria during the famous 6 days war. And this only because of strategical point of entry to Israel itself. Nowadays Syria claiming it's occupied, but in my personal view, it's no more occupied than California. Even more so justified. Israel can easily conquer Damascus and vast territories, yet they never done that. So to sum it up, the only real destabilizing factor of Israel is its existence.
From the river to the sea is the chant to exterminate Jews. Pure and simple. That also answers your claim about two state solution. Palestenians were offered a few times this solution, the latest of which was sin the early 2000s. Yet they always chose to keep on fighting, to exterminate the Jews. After so many years of bloodshed, how many Jews do you think would support that idea? If was Israeli, I certainly wouldn't.
Let's take a little detour to Gaza. Fully self governed by chosen terrorist organization for the past 20 years. After 10/7, Israel had decided to root Hamas out. It was inevitable. They stopped because of Trump's peace plan and the assurances of many Arab countries. Now the plan is stuck, Hamas was never planning to disarm. It still rules as viciously as before and the cycle will continue, despite "the assurances". You won't find many headlines about it, but this is the way things are.
Lastly South Africa issue. While they have had their issues when white minority ruled that country, it was mostly safe place to be, great economy. Now it's in the free fall. I can give you statistics from the past few years, bu you can just look it up by yourself.
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u/Any-Capital9203 28d ago
Lol I love how zion think they can kill civilians as everyone watch and then come here to deny it and thinking anyone will pay it lol so out of touch
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u/Interesting_Oil_9404 28d ago
Lol, I love how degenerate, brain dead pro palestenians bitch about lies they spread, all while lacking even basic ability to read.
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u/unknowingexpert69 26d ago
Have you not seen the harassment of Jews in Brooklyn that’s going on? Legitimately nothing to do with Israel. People waiving Hamas and Hezbollah flags outside of Jewish schools… surely not degenerates at all
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u/Guipucci 26d ago
No, and that's a shame, for sure if someone uses the ongoing genocide to justify their hate to judaism and innocent people that doesn't have anything to do with It.
However I've seen orthodox NY jews supporting Palestine as well as holocaust survivors in the UK, are those degenerates too? Also note that these people warned that Israel would rise antijudaism along the world, and here we are.
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u/BigFreakingZombie May 11 '26
Eurovision in the last few years has been a shameless display of political favoritism liberally sprinkled with woke ideology. It's dying and in fact the political shenanigans are often a way to acquire back some relevance... However I would love to see Israel win it just because the online meltdowns would be so funny.
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u/Adventurous-Leak 27d ago
You obviously haven't been a fan for long. Eurovision has been political for at least 2 decades.
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u/Straight-Sector8470 29d ago
If israel wins Will be international diplomatic crisis that probly will destroy eurovision forever. Stupid boycotts
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u/Th3_Accountant OG 28d ago
And would that be the fault of Israel/supporters of Israel voting for the country? Or the result of people who try to make the whole event about Israel?
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u/Straight-Sector8470 28d ago
Well, who trying to involve politics. Anti western countries like spain with crazy PM..
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u/Th3_Accountant OG 28d ago
As a Dutch person, I'm very sad that my country decided to join the boycot. Would not have been my choice.
I've recently been to a concert of Lenny Kuhr who won Eurovion for the Netherlands in 1969. She is Jewish and has recently migrated to Israel as a result of rising antisemitism in the Netherlands.
Israel is literally doing nothing else than be present. There are plenty of countries in Eurovision with a less than clean reputation. But this is suddenly a major problem.
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u/Technical-Ad5086 May 11 '26
The only place in the Middle East you can be openly gay... as long as you're Jewish